Talk:Army 2020 Refine

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Untitled[edit]

Shouldnt the title be "Future British Army" to state that it is about the British Army?Foxhound66 (talk) 17:14, 9 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This article is missing references on the SDSROther dictionaries are better (talk) 19:07, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The future structure called Army 2020 can't have been announced in June 2020. That must be wrong. The link to the clip suggests June 2012, but surely it was trailed before that. Can someone correct this?

Full Orbat[edit]

can be found here

http://britisharmedforcesreview.wordpress.com/2013/11/18/british-army-army-2020-order-of-battle/Phd8511 (talk) 17:42, 17 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Army Reserve[edit]

http://www.serfca.org/Portals/0/Images/f/SUMMARY%20OF%20A2020%20RESERVE%20STRUCTURE%20AND%20BASING%20CHANGES.pdf

Unit Changes and basing

Phd8511 (talk) 15:55, 8 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

ORBAT[edit]

It's unhelpful to some readers to use a term like ORBAT without explaining what it is on first use. Can an early explanation, or at least a link, be worked in somehow? The current first use of the term isn't brilliantly suitable for the link as it's right nest to an inline external link so it wouldn't be clear. This isn't my field so I don;t want to fiddle, but I wondered if another editor could see a neat solution, please? Thanks 213.162.115.147 (talk) 22:04, 17 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Orbat is a well known term.Phd8511 (talk) 05:14, 12 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Perfect See Also section[edit]

Unlike the Royal Navy page.Phd8511 (talk) 07:51, 24 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Is that according to any wiki-policy you can cite? Or just your personal preference? - theWOLFchild 08:19, 24 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Royal Irish[edit]

the two battalions are now under 160th Brigade will find source to edit.

Cantab1985 (talk) 15:29, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.royal-irish.com/events/1-r-irish-converts-to-light-protected-mobility-battalion

and http://forces.tv/62084570

Cantab1985 (talk) 15:30, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Duplication[edit]

This article appears to significantly duplicate information on the 'Structure of the British Army' and the 'Administrative Structure of the British Army articles'. I think these articles should be updated and merged. 19est66 (talk) 17:38, 27 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Map[edit]

The diagram of the 2014 British Army Journal entitled 'A New Structure for Defence Engagement And Overseas Capacity-Building' has to pictures of Greenland on it. There is another Greenland below India. There should not be... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.255.155.44 (talk) 13:36, 16 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Army 2020 refine update[edit]

http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-statement/Commons/2016-12-15/HCWS367/

The Army is refining its force structure to deliver the capabilities set out in the Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR) 2015 and modernise the Army’s ability to fight at the divisional level. The SDSR 2015 significantly increased the readiness levels required of the Army, underpinned by investment in new capability and a war-fighting division as part of Joint Force 2025. It introduced the innovative Strike brigades, based on the new AJAX vehicle family and the development of Specialised Infantry battalions, reconfigured to provide an increased contribution to countering terrorism and building stability overseas.


I am today setting out refinements to the Army which will take place during the life of this Parliament. These have been aligned with the “Better Defence Estate” strategy announced in early November. As we previously committed, we will continue to sustain a regular Army of 82,000, a whole force of 112,000 regular and reserve troops and the Army’s footprint in the devolved nations. All existing regimental cap badges will be retained. Large parts of the Army will be unaffected but it will involve some units changing their role, equipment or location.


A modernised division will be centred on the 3rd (UK) Division, organised with four brigades of two Armoured infantry and two Strike, rather than three Armoured infantry as now. A significant uplift in capability, it will hold one of each at high readiness, rather than the current single armoured infantry brigade. From this, in times of crisis, the Army will be able to deploy a credible division of three brigades. To develop and transition to this new posture, in 2017 the Army will launch a Strike Experimentation Group in Warminster. This will ensure that the first new Strike Brigade will be formed by the end of the decade.


In 2017 the Army will also create the first two new Specialised Infantry battalions to pioneer this new capability. A new Group headquarters for the units will be established, initially based in York alongside the 1st (UK) Division of which the Group will be part, before moving to Aldershot by 2020. To reinforce this capability the Army plans to create two further Specialised Infantry battalions by 2019. They will conduct defence engagement and capacity building, providing training, assistance, advice and mentoring to our partners.


As part of our continued investment in the Army Reserve we will build on the success of the Future Reserves 2020 plan. We will optimise reserve structures, embed the successful pairing of regular and reserve units and increase the number of reserve combat units supporting the division. As a result two new reserve infantry battalions will be created from 2017. A new reserve Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD) regiment will also be created.


A summary of the Army units most affected is described below.


Summary of changes proposed under Army 2020 Refine


Strike Brigade


The first Strike Brigade will operate from Catterick and Salisbury Plain and will be composed of the Household Cavalry Regiment, The King’s Royal Hussars, the 1st Battalion Scots Guards and The Highlanders, 4th Battalion The Royal Regiment of Scotland. A number of Royal Logistic Corps (RLC) and Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineer (REME) units will be allocated to provide close support logistic support, beginning with 1 Regiment RLC and 1 Close Support Battalion REME.


Specialised Infantry Battalions


In 2017 the Army will also create the first two new Specialised Infantry battalions to pioneer this new capability. These units will be The Royal Scots Borderers, 1st Battalion The Royal Regiment of Scotland and 4th Battalion The Rifles, the former relocating to Aldershot from Belfast by 2019. A new Group headquarters for the units will be established, initially based in York alongside the 1st (UK) Division of which the Group will be part, before moving to Aldershot by 2020. To reinforce this capability the Army plans to create two further Specialised Infantry battalions by 2019. These units will be the 2nd Battalion The Princess of Wales’s Royal Regiment and the 2nd Battalion The Duke of Lancaster’s Regiment both joining the group in Aldershot by 2020.


Renaming of administrative structures


The introduction of the Specialised Infantry capability will mean some reorganisation of the infantry divisional structure, within which infantry regiments are administered, from seven to six divisions.


The Scottish and The Prince of Wales’s Administrative Divisions of Infantry will merge, incorporating The Royal Regiment of Scotland, The Royal Welsh Regiment and The Royal Irish Regiment. This administrative division will be called The Scottish, Welsh and Irish Division. The Mercian Regiment from the Prince of Wales’s Division will join with the King’s Division. Army administrative divisions of infantry are the groupings within which the Army manages its infantry soldiers and officers to give them the necessary broad spread of relevant career experience from across a number of different units and activities. They have no operational role. There will be no changes to the names or regimental construct of The Royal Regiment of Scotland, The Mercian Regiment, The Royal Welsh Regiment, or The Royal Irish Regiment as a result of these administrative changes.


Support


The changes announced will require adjustments in some supporting and enabling elements of the Army. HQ 102 Logistic Brigade, 32nd Regiment Royal Artillery, 35 Engineer Regiment, Headquarters 64 Works Group Royal Engineers, 2 Medical Regiment, Headquarters 4th Regiment Royal Military Police, 33 Field Hospital and 104,105 and 106 Battalions of the Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers reserve will be rationalised, with all manpower in those units being redeployed to other areas of the Army in its refined structure.


Army Reserves


As part of our continued investment in the Army Reserve we will build on the success of the Future Reserves 2020 plan. We will optimise reserve structures to better support the modernised division, embed the successful pairing of regular and reserve units and increase the number of reserve combat units supporting the division. As a result, two new reserve infantry battalions will be created from 2017. These are 4th Battalion The Princess of Wales’s Royal Regiment and 8th Battalion The Rifles. A new reserve Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD) regiment will also be created.

Freyjaceleste862 (talk) 01:06, 16 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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July 2019 latest British Army restructure[edit]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/army-restructures-to-confront-evolving-threats

Thanks

BlueD954 (talk) 12:59, 31 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In comparison with the Royal Navy and RAF future articles/pages[edit]

There should be sections detailing future equipment/programmes as well. Thanks.

BlueD954 (talk) 08:15, 24 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Army 2020 R versus Army 2020 original[edit]

This is the original Army 2020 structure

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20131002123834/http://www.army.mod.uk/documents/general/Army2020_Report.pdf

Army 2020 Refine structure (which is post SDSR 2015) is not published on army.mod.uk but taken from a range of sources.

So https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_the_British_Army_(Army_2020_Refine)#Formation_structure

Should be based on the above web link, not the Strike Brigade stuff - which is in the 'front' or top sections. Please revert to the structure in the link above or renamed the sub-section to Army 2020 Refine.

Best

BlueD954 (talk) 15:53, 11 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Strike Experimentation Group[edit]

"Units assigned, to be assigned, or been assigned(3):

Information relating to this part of your request is not held by the Ministry of Defence. Under Section 16 of the Act, I can advise that no units have been or will be assigned to the Strike Experimentation Group."

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/691835/response/1657084/attach/3/20201014%20FOI10459%20Arbeely%20Response%20Letter%20ArmySec.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

BlueD954 (talk) 08:18, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ah. It may not end up controlling units; just supervising/participating in trials by other units. Buckshot06 (talk) 00:20, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
So many guesses. BlueD954 (talk) 04:18, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

11th Signal Brigade[edit]

I still propose this change be added to the orbat: 11th Signal Brigade has reassigned from 6th Division to 3rd Division as of 16 October 2020.[1][2]

References

  1. ^ @3rdUKDivision (October 16, 2020). "Today we welcome 11th Signals & West Midlands Bde to @3rdUKDivision.@R_Signals soldiers enable our command & control systems & are now with us at the forefront of national operations. Welcome to the Iron Division!@BritishArmy@3UKDivComdSM @11SigWMBde" (Tweet) – via Twitter.
  2. ^ "6th UK Division". army.mod.uk. British Army. 16 October 2020. Retrieved 18 October 2020.

Noclador and Dormskirk

BlueD954 (talk) 07:10, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose: for the record. Nothing against you personally BlueD954 (talk · contribs) and I am thankful for your update of the structure of the other pages. However as this specific structure shows what the structure of the Field Army in 2019, it is quite simply wrong to place a change that happened in 2020 there. Once again, I appreciate and am thankful for your other edits nonetheless. SmartyPants22 (talk) 07:23, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I feel you are stick in the mud. I await your next illogical revert. BlueD954 (talk) 12:30, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. It depends whether we want to keep this orbat up to date or not. The orbat for Army 2020 is given at List of units and formations of the British Army 2020 so presumably the list for this article (and the section heading) needs to be kept as recent as possible. Dormskirk (talk) 10:24, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Clearly this is not an article on orbats. BlueD954 (talk) 08:07, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have edited[edit]

the article to please SmartyPants22 since he is always reverting rational edits.

BlueD954 (talk) 12:32, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Future of the British Army title[edit]

Should have been Army 2020 Refine per https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/632554/2017-02130.pdf unless you want to give another source saying it will stop by 31 December 2020. Discuss.


BlueD954 (talk) 12:28, 29 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 31 October 2020[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Consensus to move (non-admin closure) BegbertBiggs (talk) 21:09, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]


Future of the British Army → Army 2020 Refine – Army 2020 'stopped' after the 2015 SDSR and was replaced by the refinement reforms called 'Army 2020 Refine'. The British Army describes it such here and a FOI answer by the MOD indicates such [1] and states it is 'Army 2020 Refine is the Army implementation of Strategic Defence and Security Review 2015...The Army is continuing to develop A2020 (Refine)'. The current title 'Future of the British Army' is vague. There is more evidence here , here, here here - which says '...part of an ongoing restructuring of the British Army, known as Army 2020 Refine'. It is therefore a COMMONNAME. BlueD954 (talk) 08:43, 31 October 2020 (UTC) BlueD954 (talk) 08:43, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support: as above, I was going to do exactly this once the new Integrated Review is released; however, there's no harm in doing it now. The 'Future of the British Army' page should be used for *future* equipment/doctrine/reorganisations etc. SmartyPants22 (talk) 12:51, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support, per nom. Not to be pedantic, but the "future of the British Army" is certainly not synonymous with the "government defence planning" and is best avoided entirely as an article title. —Brigade Piron (talk) 17:19, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Would it not be beneficial to create an article similar to Future of the Royal Air Force, and Future of the Royal Navy for 'Future of the British Army'? –SmartyPants22 (talk) 13:27, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You would then have to combine List of equipment of the British Army and Units of the British Army with it. But stick to the move request please.BlueD954 (talk) 03:10, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
SmartyPants22, I think WP:CRYSTAL would be relevant here. We need to be careful about what the article actually addresses. General speculation on the future of the Royal Navy, for example, would almost certainly fail it. By contrast, it would be different if there was a single proposal for reform that was notable in its own right. —Brigade Piron (talk) 16:26, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support better fits the content of the article (t · c) buidhe 13:36, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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