Talk:Asobi Asobase

Title translation

A thread for the translation of the title in the lead, as there has been some edit warring recently. Here is the information in question: [1]. Pinging User:Opencooper, who added the standing "Why Don't We Play Together?" translation. — Goszei (talk) 00:01, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

I originally added "Play and Let Play" and got it from MangaUpdates (a user-edited source). While I did check that it made cursory sense, this seems to have been inadequate. The latest form was added in this edit. Opencooper (talk) 02:50, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Firstly, あそびあそばせ is an unusual construction, and obviously is a play with the words (no pun intended) and a tautology. Perhaps this title was aesthetically chosen rather than intended as a descriptive one.

An English translation of this title is "please have a pastime" in which あそび is a noun form or 連用形 of 遊ぶ and あそばせ(遊ばせ) is an imperative version of the sense of def. [二] of the link below. When interpreted this way, it sounds archaic and polite to the modern ear. And I think this is the way the native speakers usually construe the title (even though I don't have any stats on this guess as a native speaker.)

https://kobun.weblio.jp/content/%E9%81%8A%E3%81%B0%E3%81%99

But if the author intended a double meaning, considering the protagonists are always scheming and playing against each other, another possible interpretation is "play, let/make play" in which あそび is a 連用形 of 遊ぶ and あそばせ is a 連用形 of a causative of 遊ぶ. This one makes sense in a context like "そうそう くんずほぐれず、もんでもまれて、あそびあそばせ."

By the way, Takayanagi is most likely a PE teacher because there is a depiction in the manga where she is teaching a health class and a Japanese middle school usually doesn't have any counsellor.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.184.170.210 (talk) 08:45, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

• Part of the issue here is that we have two IPs from Japan arguing on how to translate the title, with no sourcing to back either. Based on reading the actual definitions as provided by 114 (cutting IPs off at first octet for brevity), the translation by 220 makes perfect sense to me. They denoted the archaic use, and formed an actual English sentence from the likely intended meaning. Translation is an art, not a science. Hard literal "This word means that" without consideration of context and the full combination doesn't lend to a good outcome usually. Grammar differences must be accounted for, and on top of that. "please have a pastime" as a partial sentence fragment is something that could easily be translated as "Why Don't We Play Together?" as well. It's quite clear the general English meaning is quite similar. Unfortunately, what can an English editor from a America do between two native speakers arguing the matter? We cannot ping 220 unfortunately or get them back here for the discussion. -- ferret (talk) 14:10, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

>archaic use
Yes, but the use remains today in a phrase like 御免あそばせ even though rarely used in real life.

>Translation is an art, not a science. Hard literal "This word means that" without consideration of context and the full combination doesn't lend to a good outcome usually.
Not an art when it's not supposed to change the meaning. When the meanings, names and/or stories are changed, it's an adaptation for the target audience. What you are calling a "translation" is an adaptation.

>"please have a pastime" as a partial sentence fragment is something that could easily be translated as "Why Don't We Play Together?"
Should it have been "please have yourself a pastime" then? The Japanese version rather explicitly means this. A phrase like お行きあそばせ never means "let's go together" but rather means "get lost!"

--- new edit start ---
I wondered hard why you think it could easily be translated as "Why Don't We Play Together?" and it seems I came up with a possible context for this interpretation and an answer:
A situation where you are addressed by a hooker or a prostitute in front of her brothel with the phrase. In this case the play/あそび the speaker means usually demands the speaker's and/or their colleagues' participation, so "Why Don't We Play Together?" is a good translation, even though it is not literal and lacks some nuances involved like the speaker is objectified.

あそばせ-speak reminds you of cheerfully spirited, independent and rebellious girls from good old days' juvenile novels and shoujo manga even though I stuck to the dictionary definitions to explain the phrase. Perhaps because it's such, and the actual story is far detached from these situations, your interpretation had never occurred to me.

Oh my, it seems someone was really pulling "talking out their ass because you are a foreigner!" and having fun. Honestly speaking, I thought some "Fairy Taler" brought out the buddy-buddy imagery of the story that "only exists in that person's brain", and in the anime OP, into the reality title. Have you actually read the story? Or maybe I also ruined the fun of the people who tried hard to preserve the translation? If so, sorry but I really don't like this kind of vandalism.
--- end edit ---

>We cannot ping 220 unfortunately or get them back here for the discussion.
It seems to me this person is very sloppy at the translation or "talking out of their ass because you're a foreigner!" or not familiar with the expression.

And I hope you have read the link above. (It's a more authoritative one.)