Talk:Black Dog (whisky)

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This article was nominated for deletion on 11 October 2013 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep.

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Brand history[edit]

There's a big gap between 1883 and 1995, and another gap between 1995 and 2006. This gap is completely unexplained. Has this brand been on the market continuously, or is it a recent revival of an old defunct brand name? Is it produced only in India? Has that always been the case? —BarrelProof (talk) 16:02, 11 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have not been able to find any info about the brand during the gaps. It is produced in Scotland, and bottled and sold in India. I am not sure if its sold anywhere else. I did find sources (here and here) that say that United Breweries and United Distillers formed a joint venture in India in 1992, which produced Black Dog in India. All recent sources say that Black Dog is owned by USL, but I havent found when they acquired the brand. Black Dog may have been revived by the JV, or it could have been a brand acquired by United Distillers. BigJolly9 (talk) 15:57, 14 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for looking. I just added the first link to the article, since it seems useful to show when UB brought the product to the India market (although it does nothing to explain what happened between 1883 and 1995. The second link seems to be a dead link. —BarrelProof (talk) 20:05, 14 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, this is the correct second link, although it does not tell us anything new. This link (Page 16), from the UB Group website, mentions that the JV was formed in 1992. BigJolly9 (talk) 12:19, 15 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Great – thanks. We've narrowed the big gap by 3 years. That's progress – only 109 years remaining. —BarrelProof (talk) 17:10, 15 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There is no gap between 1883 and 1995. Data is available on the labels of the dark brown coloured bottle named Phipsons's Black Dog Scotch Whisky 12 Years Old. The main label says: Since 1883. The label on the rear says Bottled in Scotland, 1969. The photograph was taken in Jun 1977. This bottle is very similar to a standard 750 ml bottle, except for a slightly elongated neck and an ~05 mm wider diameter. Its shape was changed to today's squarish stumped version only in the late 1990s-early 2000s.

There is no gap between 1995 and 2006 either. This whisky was freely available in the Indian Defence Forces Canteen Stores across the country during the stated period for Rs 500-800 (US$ 16-18) depending upon the State and exchange rate. I was an ardent buyer till the quality dropped appreciably in 2008, when the base single malts were changed to Whyte & Mackay proprietorship. This coincides with Indian-based Vijay Mallya's United Spirits Limited purchase of W & M in 2007.Moitraanak (talk) 08:00, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This brand has never gone off the shelves in the Indian marketplace, except for about 18 months 2017-19 when it underwent a makeover. Almost all deceptions were removed. The labels were carefully re-worded. Even so, bottles were available sporadically in certain cities which had possibly stocked up in advance. Nothing defunct about Black Dog. Moitraanak (talk) 13:40, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You bet. I used to own a bottle of Phipson Black Dog till shifting house in November 2016. I had bought it off my coursemate in the Indian Navy in 1977, as it was the best Scotch in the market, Johnnie Walker Black Label being a distant second. The Phipson Black Dog disappeared in the early 2000s and the current generation of Black Dog whiskies made their entrance. I found the 8 YO terrible; the 12 YO is fine for its price-$17-20. The curious history of this whisky has been documented by me at http://noelonwhisky.blogspot.in and https://noelsramblings.blogspot.in/ More data is available at http://noelonwhisky.blogspot.in/2017/02/shackletons-scotch-monopoly.html/

Also, re detected reference error, no 20. I couldn't find anything either. Where did it come from? (talk) 1140 UTC, 20 Feb 2017 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Moitraanak (talk • contribs) 12:02, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Moitraanak (talk) 16:37, 27 March 2024 (UTC) Reference 13 is incorrect. It leads to the Wayback Machine and refers to an article in The Times of India, dated 4 July 2013. The ToI article has no basis in fact. It says, among other things," Sometime in the year 1883, Sir Walter Millard, a Scot from the British East India Company embarked on a journey to search for the perfect Scotch. And it was nowhere else but the very misty seashores of Scotland that bestowed him with the impeccable taste he was looking for."[reply]
" It is believed that Sir Walter Millard was extremely fond of angling and he chose to honour the whisky after his favourite fishing fly, The Black Dog, which he used to fish salmon at rivers Spey and Tay in Scotland."
As pointed out repeatedly, this is imagination running riot. The false claims on the cartons of the earlier bottles are magnified with poetic abandon. A humble Brit made into a knighted Scot, a virtual non-entity converted to an accomplished angler in fast flowing rivers never navigated by him. He spent almost his entire life in India, where there is no such thing as angling. British East India Company forsooth! That company was dissolved in 1874.

Copyright problem removed[edit]

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HAVE A HEART. There never was any SIR WALTER MILLARD. Millard was Phipson's employee, who came to India with a consignment of alcohol at the age of 19/20 or thereabouts. He was a non-entity. Nothing has been copied-what is being peddled is a fairy tale. Phipson's Black Dog was a bestseller in India, starting 1889, way ahead of Buchanan's 12 YO (1903), Greenlees Brothers' Old Parr (1921), the Johnnie Walker Red Label 10 YO (1909), the Johnnie Walker Black Label (1951) and Chivas Regal (1955). It was served on Air India and Scindia Shipping. It was a super dram on board an Indian Navy ship. It was also served on my commissioning into the Indian Air Force in 1971 where 56 coursemates ran through over a dozen 750 ml bottles. I have a bottle of Phipson's Black Dog. A couple of snaps of my bottle are posted online.

Black Dog was taken over by USL and then Diageo towards the end of the 20th century. Then came this fancy tale. The 18/21 year olds are genuine products-entirely USL/Diageo.

Moitraanak (talk) 19:43, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Moitraanak (talk) 12:06, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Moitraanak (talk) 13:34, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
[[Moitraanak (talk) 14:20, 27 March 2024 (UTC)]] This link [http://web.archive.org/web/20110426040219/http://www.indiaprline.com/2011/04/20/luxury-scotch-hits-a-new-high-with-the-black-dog-18-year-old/ leads to the Wayback Machine. Sadly, the data therein is incorrect. It is dated 19 April 2011 and says: launched the masterful whisky by the name of Millard’s favourite fishing fly, The Black Dog. It is said that in the year 1883 Walter Millard, a Scot from British East India company... Walter Samuel Millard (1864–1952), the seventh son of Rev. J.H. Millard, Huntingdon, Cambridgeshire, England was a Brit through and through; no way he was a Scot![reply]
He was educated, no doubt, considering his eventual portfolio in the Bombay Natural History Society, which he took over from Herbert Musgrave Phipson (1850–1936). In 1883 , he was was a nondescript 19 year old employee of Phipson. His only claim to fame then was that, in the absence of Phipson who had come to England to order vast stocks of liquor and had returned to India, he watched over the production of the Scotch Whisky ordered and accompanied it to Bombay.