Talk:Colin McCool

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 17:12, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

GA Review

I will be giving a review of this article, and for the moment it has easily passed the "Quick-Fail Criteria". I will give this article a thorough read-over and give my comments shortly on what might need improvement. The359 (talk) 21:58, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Some problems

Intro

• I know most everything is cited elsewhere in the article, but citations should most importantly be included at the first mention of the fact. Therefore, the intro needs some citations to back up the facts. Especially for possible POV statements such as ...as a lower order batsman was excellent square of the wicket and against spin bowling. and A good tour of South Africa in 1948–49 was followed by a lack of opportunity in the next two seasons

• I don't generally cite anything in the lead, even at FA - see Archie Jackson and Clem Hill for examples. I think I have reworded the POV material so it reflects content cited below. Let me know if this is unsuitable. -- Mattinbgn\^talk 13:56, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

• Simply for those that might not know, I think it might help to specify that the Invincibles is the name of a team, as it is a bit ambiguous unless someone actually clicks the link.

• This has now been done -- Mattinbgn\^talk 04:11, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Early career

• What year did he join Paddington Cricket Club?

• I can't find a source with that information -- Mattinbgn\^talk 03:13, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I'd be helpful to find, but no biggie on this minor point.

• Is there a specific date in which first-class cricket was stopped for WWII? Was his debut match his only match before he left to join the RAAF?

• No, it wasn't. The main national competition (Sheffield Shield) was suspended after the 1939-40 season, but he played in a series of official wartime charity matches before joining the RAAF. -- Mattinbgn\^talk 03:39, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

• Any ideas on what jobs McCool had while stationed in New Guinea for the RAAF?

• I don't know, other than he was a commissioned officer, I am not even sure if he was a pilot or ground crew. -- Mattinbgn\^talk 03:13, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I think this might be more important information to find. His low rank makes me believe he was ground crew, but I'd still think it'd be best to get something more specific. It'd help round out the article so that it is not solely about his cricket career. The359 (talk) 03:26, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I will need to visit a better resourced library for this material, if it exists and due to my living circumstances (I live in a small, remote town in Australia) I am unable to do so in a reasonable timeframe. What is there is the best I can do at present. -- Mattinbgn\^talk 13:56, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

• Did McCool join another club after WWII or was he simply signed straight to the Australian team? If it is the latter, I think his partnership with Don Tallon should be mentioned after this statement rather than before.

• He moved to Brisbane and played for Queensland. From this, he was selected in the Australian team. Higher cricket in Australia, then and now, works on a representative basis. A club team in Australian cricket plays at a relatively low level, semi-professional at best. As a result of his performances in club cricket, a player is then selected in his State representative team (i.e. Queensland Bulls) and form there, if he is good enough, the national team (i.e. Australia national cricket team). --

Test player

• The following season, McCool put his case for selection in the team to play Wally Hammond's England cricket team in the 1946–47 Ashes series by taking nine wickets against the tourists at the 'Gabba. - Put his case? I think I know what you are implying, but I think it could be worded better. Also, although the slang name is likely well known, I would not use it here.

• Agreed and reworded re: "put his case". I have stated the full name of the Brisbane Cricket Ground in the text but left the nickname in brackets. The nickname is so ubiquitous that many, perhaps most cricket fans, even in Brisbane itself would not know that the 'Gabba has an official name. -- Mattinbgn\^talk 04:08, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

• Wisden wrote... - Wisden who? Also, no need to state his name twice in consecutive sentences. It can be implied that it is the same person giving his opinion.

• Wisden is Wisden Cricketers' Almanack, an annual providing a review of the previous English cricket season. The link will provide more information. I have linked the first occurance and italicised the rest. Hope it is clearer now. -- Mattinbgn\^talk 11:19, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

• You have Invicibles in italics in the opening, but in quotations here. Should be the same throughout.

• Agreed, italics it is! -- Mattinbgn\^talk 11:19, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

• Although I assume the callouses were on his right hand, it might help to specify. Also, was there a specific time when he started to tear the callouses, or did he have them to begin with?

• The source doesn't say "right hand" explicitly - "But spinning his leg breaks tore a callus off his third finger whenever he bowled lengthy spells..." I think the reword makes it clear that it is his bowling hand that is under discussion.

Yes, I agree, that works better.

• Why were Hamence and Ring not playing?

• They were fit, but not selected. Added now and improved the sentence somewhat. -- Mattinbgn\^talk 04:51, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

• What happened with the callouses after the tour of England? Did he overcome it somehow before he started the tour of South Africa?

• No, they continually bothered him for the rest of his career. Now added. -- Mattinbgn\^talk 03:43, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

• ...but was unable to force his way into the Test team... - Again, this needs a better description I think, as with the opening sentence of this section.

• Agree and reworded. -- Mattinbgn\^talk 20:59, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

English cricket

• ...and East Lancashire, traditionally one of the stronger league teams, finished 10th out of 14. - POV?

East Lancs' record in preceding 12 seasons (1942-53): 1st, =2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 4th, 1st, 3rd, 1st, 1st, 4th. [1] Johnlp (talk) 22:11, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

It still should be cited in the article somehow. The359 (talk) 22:45, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Reworded and cited now. -- Mattinbgn\^talk 22:55, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

• He did not return to East Lancashire for the 1955 season. - Any reason why?

McCool appears to have contracted to join Somerset, but then to have been kept waiting by a change in the rules for registration, which meant he was unable to appear for the county until 1956. I'll insert something in the article to this effect. Johnlp (talk) 21:29, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

• Might want to spell out what Wisden is.

• Hope it is clearer now, Do you think I need to spell out the full name again? -- Mattinbgn\^talk 11:19, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

No, that was my mistake, I had forgotten that the name had been mentioned earlier but not linked. You have it correct now. The359 (talk) 19:43, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

• I would, in brackets, spell out the names of Ian Johnson and Jack Wilson.

• Done

• The bowling was perhaps under-used... - I assume this statement comes from David Foot? Might want to cite it as well as the later quote just to specify.

Revised to cite amount of spin bowling done by other preferred spinners in Somerset team. Johnlp (talk) 19:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Style

• Despite this unusual action, before his finger problems his sharp turn caused the best batsmen to look inept, becoming almost unplayable on poorly prepared pitches. - I think this should be broken into two sentences. The unusual action causing batsmen to be caught out, and that he later had finger problems because of it. Also, any attribution as to the statement that he caused batsmen to "look inept"?

• Reworded with quotes etc. The paragraph as written was obviously was not clear as your understanding of what I wrote was significantly different to my intention. His (very unorthodox) action was seen as an impediment to his success and attempts were made to change it. His success, such as it was, was in spite of his action not as a result of it. The finger skin problem may (or may not) be related to his action but I can't find a source to support this. I hope this is clearer now and thanks for pointing it out to me. There is nothing like an outside perception to reveal one's hidden assumptions. :) -- Mattinbgn\^talk 07:49, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

In general

• The only thing that I think this article is really lacking at the moment is discussion of McCool's life outside of Cricket. Almost no mention is made of his birth or death, or of his family with exception of his son. Parents names? Married? Cause of death? Any other interests besides cricket and gardening?

I have some more stuff about his personality which I'll put in. But not about his family. Johnlp (talk) 21:29, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

As stated above, I will need to visit a bigger library for information on his family as I am unable to source this through my library, my own collection or online. -- Mattinbgn\^talk 13:56, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyway, I have this article on my watch list, so feel free to mark off any changes you make or simply raise points that you feel I have made a mistake on. I will try to respond to them as quickly as possible so that further improvements can be made. The359 (talk) 23:35, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for taking the time to review. I am starting to work through them now. -- Mattinbgn\^talk 10:56, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

As much of the review is complete as I can reasonably do at present. Thanks for the review, it has certainly helped improve the article. Thanks as well to my collaborator, Johnlp for his contributions. -- Mattinbgn\^talk 13:56, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Final review

Sorry for the delay, I've been occupied with things in real life and my access to Wikipedia has been in various spurts, so I haven't had much time to properly go over the changes. Anyway, here is a review as the article stands now.

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

   All well written, I cleaned up a few small mistakes that were left over.

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   One small problem remaining. I think at least one or two citations should still be used in the lead, as some statements made there could be seen as debateable, or at least need proof that the facts are correct.

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   It's still a bit of a mystery regarding the mother of his son, but I tried searching as well and can't find anything, so no problem there, you've found as much as you can.

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

   No problems with neutrality, all opinions are from outside, good sources.

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars etc.:

   No edit wars.

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   Pictures are all properly handled.

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

   One minor fix and you're there.

Once this is easily handled, you'll have yourself a pass. Good job to both Mattinbgn and Johnlp. The359 (talk) 20:08, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Now added. Thanks once again for the review. Cheers, Mattinbgn\^talk 21:00, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Works for me. Looks like you've got yourself a GA. I'll make the appropriate template changes and such. Congrats. The359 (talk) 21:33, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Did Colin McCool reside in Umina Beach during his market gardening years? Pw70 (talk) 07:47, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

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Merger discussion

It is proposed that the content from Colin McCool with the Australian cricket team in England in 1948 should be merged into this article and when the merge is completed that the page should be redirected to this article.--John Cline (talk) 05:36, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

Oppose, though mainly because no reason is given, so I favour maintaining the status quo, especially as the articles are both of "Good" status. I would reconsider my position if sufficient argument is provided for a merge. Harrias ^talk 10:52, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

I'm going to withdraw the request Harrias, as you said: in favour of maintaining the status quo. Aside that, I couldn't find an actual policy-based rationale supporting the merge and the extrapolations I tried to pursue began sounding more and more like versions of "I don't like it" than anything else. I appreciate your participation here, and wish you the best.--John Cline (talk) 22:18, 28 March 2019 (UTC)