Talk:Diwan (poetry)

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Thanks[edit]

I encountered this term today while researching another topic in poetry, and I wanted to thank the editors for providing a clear, pleasant-to-read article. I'm not in a position to assess the validity of the content, since that's what I came here to learn, but it's presented in a way that inspires confidence. Cynwolfe (talk) 15:29, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Lead section[edit]

Don't know why someone's bent on devaluing this article, but at first the lead section was removed, and now it's useless: "a collection of poems" does not define Diwan as distinguished from any other collection of poems.

Please review Wikipedia:Lead_section. This used to be a nicely done little article. Cynwolfe (talk) 13:17, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Although the lead section still does not summarize the content of the article, the article itself is once again a pleasure to read. Cynwolfe (talk) 11:49, 6 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Rewording[edit]

The English usage of the phrase Diwan Poetry comes from the Arabic word diwan (دیوان), which is loaned from Persian means designated a list or register.[1] The Persian word derived from the Persian dibir meaning writer or scribe. Diwan was also borrowed into Armenian, Arabic, Urdu and Turkish.

States Diwan comes from the Arabic word diwan which is loaned from the Persian word, I'm assuming dabir though the wording of this sentence is not clear. Why not just say it is originally a Persian word that has been burrowed into Arabic, etc..

It is confusing because the sentence is basically saying diwan is an Arabic word which is burrowed from Persian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.80.104.208 (talk) 23:56, 16 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Arguments from etymology often cloak some other agenda, I've found. One can spend a lot of time arguing about where the word comes from, as if to claim etymological priority is to claim possession of the concept. And even if you can arrive at a definitive origin for the word, you still haven't written an introduction that informs the reader about the concept. So the lead section is what I'd like to see developed. Cynwolfe (talk) 01:46, 17 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Was diwan actually a Persian word?[edit]

It seems like DIwan was actually an Arab word. As the word dabir does not seem to have any relationship to diwan. So I will be waiting for a clarification on why the word has been assumed to be of Persian language. Ibnismail2222 (talk) 15:39, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Because it's cited by a source, unlike your claim. HistoryofIran (talk) 15:44, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, thank you for your reply. Could you please share the source or direct me to it?

Thank you in advance! Ibnismail2222 (talk) 16:17, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

According to Encyclopedia Iranica it is even much older and goes back to the Sumerians:

"It has long been recognized that the word must go back to some derivative of Old Persian dipi-, (inscription, document), itself borrowed, via Elamite, from Akkadian ṭuppu and ultimately from Sumerian dub (clay tablet)." Ibnismail2222 (talk) 16:37, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It seems you omitted the part that contradicted your claim; "Dīvān is a Persian loan-word in Arabic and was borrowed also at an earlier date into Armenian. It is attested in Zoroastrian Middle Persian in the spellings dpywʾn and dywʾn. It has long been recognized that the word must go back to some derivative of Old Persian dipi-, (inscription, document), itself borrowed, via Elamite, from Akkadian ṭuppu and ultimately from Sumerian dub (clay tablet). Compare also Persian debīr (scribe), Middle-Persian dibīr, from *dipī-var-. Armenian divan, which occurs already in the translation of the Bible, could in theory represent an Arsacid Parthian *dēvān, but such a form would be most difficult to explain, as it is hardly imaginable that dipi- should have become *dē-. " HistoryofIran (talk) 16:46, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I did not. I won't do that! I have nothing against the word being Iranian. I love Iranians as they are our fellow middle-easterners and we share many things in common but here it seems that the word goes back to the Sumerians, the next paragraph is talking about how we can compare it to the Persian word debīr but does not prove that dewan from it, maybe the word debīr is originally a Sumerian word borrowed into Persian? Ibnismail2222 (talk) 16:56, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]