Talk:Enigma Variations/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

The Enigma Variations Ciphers

Don't feed this TROLL (A) who persistently refuses to accept that WP principles do not permit WP:original research, which is exactly what his Elgar writings amount to until and unless they are given significant commentary in reputable publications that are independent of his own website; and (B) who constantly resorts to insulting and bullying those who refuse to violate the principles they are committed to protecting - as if that was ever going to work (but if it ever did, it would instantly render fatally corrupt the very site he so desperately wants to recognise his work. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 22:39, 6 June 2015 (UTC))
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
There are at least 40 different ciphers connected with the Enigma Variations which encode the title of the Covert Principal Theme and name of the secret friend portrayed in Variation XIII. An excellent example is the Enigma Theme's Performance Directions Anagram Cipher. There are seven distinct Performance Directions in the first measure of the Enigma Theme: Andante Piano Molto Espressivo Legato E Sostenuto The first letters of these Performance Directions form an intriguing anagram - EE's PSALM: E Espressivo Piano Sostenuto Andante Legato Molto Elgar's penchant for cryptogram, anagrams and other forms of wordplay is generally acknowledged, lending credence to this Performance Directions Anagram Cipher. There are 150 Psalms, so the question naturally arises, "To which Psalm is Elgar referring?" The ABA Ternary Structure of the Enigma Theme holds the key. The opening A section in G minor is demarcated by an oddly placed double bar at the terminus of measure 6. The contrasting B section in G major is 4 measures. Pairing these two numbers together enables the formation of the number 46. Psalm 46 served as the inspiration for the title and some of the lyrics for Martin Luther's greatest hymn, Ein feste Burg. In the second stanza the name of Elgar's secret friend is given. Combining the results of the Performance Directions Anagram Psalm Cipher with the number of measures for the A and B sections of the Enigma Theme reveals the title of the Covert Principal Theme, for it is the first line of Psalm 46: A Mighty Fortress Is Our God by Martin Luther. Ein feste Burg is "quoted" by Felix Mendelssohn in the fourth movement of his first extended symphonic work, the Reformation Symphony, followed by a series of variations. This fact - not conjecture - accounts for the four anomalous Mendelssohn fragments found in Variation XIII. A total of three are in the major modes of A-flat (2) and E-flat (1), and the remainder is in F minor. Elgar quotes Mendelssohn to hint at the fact Mendelssohn quotes the unstated Principal Theme in one of his own works. The number of Mendelssohn fragments helps pinpoint the correct movement. Notice that the key letters of these Mendelssohn fragments (FAE) are a well known music cryptogram representing Joseph Joachim's romantic motto, "Frei aber einsam" (Free but lonely). The initials F.A.E. allude to the fact the Covert Principal Theme's title is three words in German. Ein feste Burg is the only melodic solution ever proposed that satisfies that implicit parameter. Another remarkable cipher hiding within the Mendelssohn fragments encodes the letters E.F.B., the initials for Ein Feste Burg. The Enigma Theme is in the minor and major modes of G, and in yet another incredible coincidence the accidentals for G minor (B-flat, E-flat) and G major (F-sharp) encode those same letters - E.F.B. Variation XIII is exceptional because in place of a friend's initials there are three asterisks (***). Similar to the Performance Anagram Cipher, the first letters of the subtitles for the movements immediately before and after Variation XIII are E.F.B. The subtitle for Variation XII is B.G.N. The subtitles for Variation XIV are E.D.U. And Finale. The first letters of these subtitles are an anagram for the Covert Principal Theme's initials - E.F.B. Elgar's affinity for anagrams is on full display with these elegant ciphers. With so many cryptograms pointing to the same set of solution letters, there remains scant room for doubt except perhaps for those who have sworn vows of perpetual ignorance. RobertPadgett (talk) 15:31, 3 June 2015 (UTC) The above, is interesting and clever, but no reason is given that the above was in the composer's mind at the time he composed the Variations, and therefore it is only conjecture. The closest we can get to that, and what we want, is surely anecdotal from the composer and composer's contemporaries (letters, conversations, notes, etc.) as found and published by respected researchers. That is why I that such original conjecture, however clever, is hit or miss, and should have no place in a wikipedia article of this nature. Please can the contributor understand this? P0mbal (talk) 21:35, 3 June 2015 (UTC) We really do need a separate article covering the most prominent/notable theories about the Enigma theme. We have such an article, nay an entire category, on the candidates for the "real" identity of Shakespeare, assuming it wasn't the one from Stratford; so the precedent is there. I started such an Enigma article some time ago but it's lying dormant in my sandbox. Whether the above would qualify as prominent or notable would depend on how much it's been covered in reputable mainstream literature. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 22:57, 3 June 2015 (UTC) Jack of Oz is absolutely correct. A separate article cataloging and describing all publicly available theories concerning the Enigma Variations would serve as an important resource for those interested in exploring diverse and often conflicting views on this subject. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RobertPadgett (talk • contribs) 16:04, 5 June 2015 (UTC) No, I did not say "all publicly available theories concerning the Enigma Variations". That would be an enormous list. I said "the most prominent/notable theories". Whether a particular theory is prominent or notable is determined by the relative amount of discussion it receives in the literature, and by that I mean places that are independent of the proponent. Your or anyone's personal blog/site, for example, would not count. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 22:28, 5 June 2015 (UTC) P0mbal offers as unadulterated conjecture the assertion the Performance Directions Anagram Cipher was not in Elgar's mind when he composed the Enigma Theme. The evidence - not clever conjecture - clearly shows otherwise. Edward Elgar even went so far as to initial his cipher to aid in its authentication. Elgar ingeniously encodes his last name in a Music Box Cipher contained in the first six measures of the Enigma Theme. He initialed one cipher and signed another, and both encode the same pair of answers. The odds of so many precise parallels between two distinct ciphers found in the opening measures of the Enigma Theme are infinitesimally small.— Preceding unsigned comment added by RobertPadgett (talk • contribs) 21:07, 5 June 2015 (UTC) You're still trying to convince us of the merit of your theory. It may well be spot on. But this isn't the place for debating it one way or another. You've been told this many times before. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 22:28, 5 June 2015 (UTC) I appreciate Jack of Oz's kind acknowledgement my solution may well be correct. Wikipedia's persistent refusal to make any mention of Ein feste Burg is addressed in my article Wikipedia's Enigma Embargo. It is deeply ironic Wikipedia's editors are perfectly content citing Dr. Clive McClelland's theory regarding the hymn Now the day is over because that solution rests precariously on the demonstrably false condition that Elgar would not employ any dissonances between the Enigma Theme and the hidden melody. Elgar's sketchbooks bear witness to the fact he routinely used dissonant intervals in counterpoints he composed to famous themes. One example is his Lover's Theme from Cockaigne which Elgar composed as a counterpoint to the Wedding March by Felix Mendelssohn. In the first three bars Elgar invokes no less than seven dissonant intervals between Mendelssohn's famous theme and his counterpoint. The peer review process clearly failed when is permitted Dr. McClelland to propose the ludicrous condition that Elgar's counterpoint would assiduously avoid any dissonant intervals when his sketchbooks clearly prove otherwise. By excluding my solution in favor of bogus ones like Dr. McClelland's, Wikipedia's editors strain out the proverbial gnat and swallow a camel. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RobertPadgett (talk • contribs) 00:57, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

Enigma Variations (copied from User talk:Antandrus)

Original research is prohibited on Wikipedia. Any account whose sole purpose is to push their own original research, and self-published ideas on their own website, and has ignored dozens of warnings, and all attempts to communicate site policy, is subject to indefinite block. Antandrus (talk) 22:43, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Under the section Possible musical themes the current article mentions my melodic solution 'A Might Fortress' without providing an accurate attribution or relevant link to my free eBook Elgar's Enigmas Exposed in which that solution is fully presented. The conductor and composer Adina Spire did not originate that melodic solution, but merely endorsed it publicly in a performance with the Bezdin Ensemble. The article also advances the patently absurd assertion that Elgar allegedly disapproved of hymn tunes. The facts plainly prove otherwise, for his personal library contained multiple hymnals as well as a copy of John Brownlie's Hymns of the Early Church." Such a claim overlooks the influence of early hymn tunes on The Dream of Gerontius, not to mention Elgar's own contributions to Protestant and Catholic hymnals and other forms of sacred music. No informed Elgar scholar would ever contend Elgar despised hymns when some of his favorite composers (Bach, Mendelssohn, Meyerbeer, and Wagner) quote hymns in their music, specifically Ein feste Burg. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RobertPadgett (talk • contribs) Greetings -- that may be, but you still need a reliable source that indicates where the idea came from, and a self-published work is not considered reliable under our policies. I am going to copy this to the article talk page, where this conversation belongs. Please read the policy links we have provided on the talk page of your previous account over the last five years, Sir Padgett (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). We do not use blogs and self-published sources. Antandrus (talk) 17:43, 24 August 2014 (UTC) @Antandrus: On March 2, 2009, Tim Smith, the classical music reporter of the Baltimore Sun, publicly reported on 'Ein feste Burg' as the covert principal theme of the Enigma Variations, crediting the discovery to Robert Padgett. Adina Spire also credited Robert Padgett with this discovery, quoting verbatim from his blog. @Antandrus: Conductor and composer Adina Spire publicly credits Robert Wayne Padgett with the discovery of 'Ein feste Burg' as the covert principal theme of the Enigma Variations. On March 2, 2009, classical music reporter Tim Smith first acknolwedged Robert Padgett's discovery in the Baltimore Sun one month after the original discovery on February 3, 2009 - the bicentennial of Mendelssohn's birth. It would be informative and relevant to mention that on the original autographed score the heading 'Enigma' was added in pencil by Elgar's only German friend portrayed in the Variations - August Jaeger. A thoughtful consideration of this and other conspicuous German elements incorporated within the Enigma Variations (e.g., the anomalous Mendelssohn fragments quoted in Variation XIII inspired by the poetry of the German writer Goethe, the fact Mendelssohn was a celebrated German composer, and the German rendering of Elgar's first name as'Eduard' that served as the basis for his initials E.D.U. for Variation XIV) strongly suggests the 'enigma' involves a decidedly German resolution. - Robert Padgett

"Musical" example?

What's with the sound file, right after the music for the theme? I think this is a good idea in theory (many people do not know how to read music) but playing the file produces noise which is NOTHING like the tune. Either it has been wrongly constructed, or has been purloined from another place, nothing to do with the Enigma. I'll delete it after a week if no one objects. 2.25.44.144 (talk) 22:33, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Well, that's odd: just played it again and it sounds fine now. 2.25.44.144 (talk) 22:36, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Also a software company

Perhaps grounds for a disambig: Enigma Variations Ltd was a British software company that published various games for the ZX Spectrum and SAM Coupé circa 1990. Equinox (talk) 11:17, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

Mathematical speculation

I dunno, the latest addition to the page seems a bit far-fetched to me. Should it be reverted and discussed here first? --Wspencer11 (talk to me...) 04:16, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

It's curious and interesting. Problem is, it seems to be the opinion of one or more Wikipedia editors, not that of an independent author whose work we're citing. Thus, it's original research and therefore out of bounds for our articles. It should be removed unless we can find an external reference for it. -- JackofOz 07:07, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

I am relocating my entry regarding the Pi theory to this area as JackofOz suggested. I hope to get it published in a Journal later this year. Since this is a better place for new theories to start, I offer the following Pi theory.

In 2007, a new theory was revealed on public radio's "Performance Today." Elgar dedicated his Enigma Variations to "My Friends Pictured Within." As a "variation" of this, Elgar could have written, "To My Circle of Friends." In mathematics, characteristics of all circles are related by a universal constant, Pi. A common approximation of Pi is 22/7, which equals 3.142857. When the first four numbers of Pi, 3-1-4-2, are played on a musical scale, with 1 being the root, 3 being the third, etc., we hear the opening Theme of his Enigma Variations. Elgar's first four notes are a cipher for Pi.

Sir Edward enjoyed jokes and ciphers, both of which are involved in his "Enigma." The "dark saying" could be a clever reference to the line from the very familiar English nursery rhyme, "Four and twenty BLACKbirds baked in a pie/Pi." Blackbirds are certainly dark, and the pun based on Pi is an unmistakable hint.

Pi could easily be described as "the chief character (who) is never on the stage." This 3-1-4-2 theme is the basis for all of the variations and is heard many times throughout the piece, but Pi itself is hidden.

Sir Edward's clue in 1929 was one more reference to Pi. After referring to the opening crotchets and quavers (eleven quarter notes and eighth notes), Sir Edward advises, "the drop of the seventh in the Theme (bars 3 and 4) should be observed." After the first eleven notes there are two drops of a seventh. In other words, 11 notes x 2/7 = 22/7 = the common approximation of Pi. This clue is not addressed by any previous theory.

Sir Edward, speaking of the Enigma, told Dora Penny in 1899, "It is so well known that it is extraordinary that no one has spotted it." Pi is universally taught as part of primary education and it is "very well known." Many of the previous theories are quite complex.

In two separate letters written to Dora in 1901, Sir Edward used the first four notes of the Enigma Variations as his signature, giving Dora an extra clue. Sir Edward then told Dora, "I thought that you of all people would guess it." These first four notes, the Enigma Theme, are a simple four-character cipher for Pi, the numbers 3-1-4-2. That is why he thought Dora, of all people, would guess it.Dnlsanta 02:47, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

It's interesting--fascinating, actually--and if you get it published in a peer-reviewed journal we can add it to the proposed theories. I had thought that the "Rule Britannia" theory had been winning out over the others in recent years; I heard a very convincing lecture-demonstration on it on NPR (US) some years ago. Cheers, Antandrus (talk) 03:01, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, very fascinating—something the world may have wished it knew 100 years ago? —  $PЯINGrαgђ  03:14, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

I know it is trivial, but quite a coincidence that the posting time of the previous entry "is" Pi, 3:14. Maybe Sir Edward is watching us and trying to give us one more clue. Ha Ha. Dnlsanta 00:43, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

No actually it is my mind control which is slowly taking over the whole musical world. Muahahaha! :P —  $PЯINGrαgђ  00:45, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

It occurs to me that Elgar might be having the last laugh. It's possible that he combined two enigmas in one, and everybody has been searching for a single key all these years when the solution is two-fold. Dnlsanta's theory is the most interesting new one I've heard in a long time, and it bears further discussion out there in the external world of Elgariana (or Enigmiana). Once it gets reported in a reputable publication, then we can include it in our article. Not until then, though. The two-fold proposition, yet to be conclusively proven, is that "Rule Britannia" and the Pi theory both fit all the clues. These include not just the fact that Britannia was on the penny - the shape of which was of course circular - but also that Dora Penny was mathematically inclined. It's a whole gestalt of clues, not just one or the other in isolation. Maybe Elgar is also alluding to the fact that one can try as they might to enumerate all the digits of Pi but will never, never, never get to the end because it's a transcendental number. What an ingenious mind this man must have had. So, if this theory holds water:

• Pi, whose digits never, never, never end, connects to circles
• circles connect to the shape of the penny
• the penny connects to both Britannia and Dora Penny
• Britannia connects to "Rule Britannia"
• "Rule Britannia" brings up "never, never, never" again
• Dora Penny connects to mathematics and, in particular, Pi
• and round and round we go. :)-

The only stumbling block I can see is that the number 3.142857 (= 22/7), on which the theory hangs, is only a very rough approximation of Pi; a more exact value is 3.1415926535. So, it's not certain that his reference is to Pi at all, but merely to the fraction 22/7. But that makes it a much less evocative theory, and 22/7 has no intrinsic connection to circles (of friends, or anything else). On the other hand, the actual value of Pi rounded to 3 decimal places is still 3.142.

On a side note, I once read a theory that Elgar must have been the reincarnation of Robert Schumann, who died less than a year before Elgar was born, and who was also extremely taken by puzzles and ciphers. I rather think this theory will be much harder to prove. But who knows! Are there any Schumann quotes in the Enigma Variations? -- JackofOz 01:38, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

I think that unfortunately, using these sloppy, untestable methods of 'proof', one can 'prove' almost anything. Elgar could have written "Circle of friends" - but he didn't. There are dozens of nursery rhymes and poems which have 'dark' things in them: what is special about blackbirds? What has 'four and twenty' got to do with pi? Has pi really been a universal part of primary school education for the last century?? Every piece of music abounds in numerical values, and with enough mathematical ingenuity these values can be rearranged into almost any form a person wants. The "derivation" of 22/7 is simply numerological mystification. Why exactly should one multiply 11 by 2 and then divide by 7, rather than any other set of operations on these three numbers? The decimal expansion that goes on for ever begins 3.14159, but the rounding is 3.142: you can't have it both ways, at least considering a melody where you have to choose either '1' or '2'. --Tdent (talk) 21:34, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Schumann certainly had a very large brain, didn't he? B-) I should listen to my recording of the Variations (with Elgar himself conducting) and see. —  $PЯINGrαgђ  04:07, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

How does the "Never, Never" theory relate to Sir Edward's 1929 clue about, "the opening crotchets and quavers" (eleven quarter notes and eighth notes) and "the drop of the seventh in the Theme (bars 3 and 4) should be observed."  ?????? 70.238.206.243 12:54, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

The Pi theory seems interesting to me, and I don't understand why we can't post it in the article already. We could just make clear that it is a recent theory that is being submitted for formal review. If you want a reference, you could cite the Performance today interview. It seems on par with the other theories in the article, in that none of them are really proven yet, and most of them don't even have citations themselves. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.205.250.73 (talk) 23:13, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Out of the blue - isn't it just conceivable that Elgar in telling Dora Penny that she should have known the solution to the Enigma wasn't talking about Britannia at all, but the lady on the other side of the penny - Queen Victoria, who had her own tune, after all, which itself is rather well-known, and does (pace Mr Padgett) have a certain similarity with Ein Feste Burg? One problem, of course, is that in accordance with what is apparently the Manual of Military Law, it must always when publicly played be heard in E flat. But apart from that, I'm not aware that anyone put the possibility to Elgar. It's as feasible (i.e., not very) as Ein Feste Burg, and from Elgar's personal point of view, more likely, possiblyDelahays (talk) 09:28, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Enigma Variations. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20051111003316/http://users.rcn.com/rfinley/enigma.mid to http://users.rcn.com/rfinley/enigma.mid

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 09:27, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Original manusriot

On 8 July 2018 the BBC's Antiques Roadshow featured an original first edition manuscript, dated 1899, owned by August Jaeger and including about 20 pages of musical sketches. Antiquarian book specialist Justin Croft valued the item at between £80,000 and £100,000: [1] . Martinevans123 (talk) 20:16, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Thought you'd like to know

This page got a shout-out in Not Another Music History Cliché's debunking of the "Padgett theory." She said, "The Wikipedia article on the Enigma Variations is surprisingly thorough; I encourage you to check it out for more information." Beggarsbanquet (talk) 23:17, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

Ah, thanks for that link! Interesting. (fyi, as you may well be already aware, I've blocked this and this sockpuppet of the named person for relentless, exhausting, and completely inappropriate OR and POV-pushing in this article, and will do so again if necessary.) Antandrus (talk) 00:40, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, I saw. I came here from that blog post (which I highly recommend if you want to see a musicologist dunk on the TNR article about him). I got lost in reading this talk page. It was very entertaining reading...but probably very frustrating for all of you, I'm sure. Beggarsbanquet (talk) 01:20, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

I just read your userpage and I didn't realize you were a musicologist too! That's pretty cool. I'm getting my Ph.D. in it. Beggarsbanquet (talk) 01:22, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

I'm not sure this helps much, but if you spend time with Elgar's scores you soon find you can never skip a detail without losing something essential. If he presents a theme for any kind of development he is likely to use any aspect of it at all - bass, inner parts, implied harmonic progression, rhythm, as well as the obvious melodic line. A good deal of the First Symphony derives from the bass of the main introductory theme which folk insist on identifying as a 'motto", for example. He was, after all, a close student of both Brahms and Wagner, and even his early Serenade comes out of an episode in the Elgars' early married life in which they found they couldn't afford a long-anticipated trip to Bayreuth. There's at least one near quotation from Tristan in the score. (As in the Variations he quotes - more extensively - from Cosi). One of the fascinating things about the theme of the Variations is the relationship between the opening bass (four-note G minor rising scale) and the middle section, which starts also on a diminished four note scale in the relative major, and is followed by a falling interval which repeats itself at the end of each upward four note phrase. Could it be that behind that there is the theme in "Rheingold" associated with Freya's panic when Wotan is about to hand her over to the giants, and which Derek Cooke identified as one of the key, if overlooked, love themes of the cycle? And also the framework of the main allegro theme of Beethoven's "Pathetique" sonata first movement? Leave the 'dark saying" to one side, and give the man due credit for his - essentially self-taught and painfully acquired - sheer skill.Delahays (talk) 14:13, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

In her article Not Another Music History Cliché", musicologist Linda Shaver-Gleason recycles Julian Rushton's objections to Padgett's mapping of Ein feste Burg through and over the Enigma Theme. These counterarguments are unsupported by Elgar's flexible contrapuntal treatments of other famous melodies which are carefully detailed in Shattering Rushton's Enigma Myths. 2605:6001:E7DC:1000:9A6:BF15:7A0B:D45 (talk) 13:32, 9 August 2018 (UTC)Robert W. Padgett

Dates of Composition

Elgar began composing the 'Enigma' Variations on 21 October 1898 and completed the preliminary orchestration on 19 February 1899. However, this does not accurately reflect the ultimate completion date because he appended 96 bars to his variation (E.D.U.) between 30 June and 20 July 1899. The opening sentence of the article should be revised to acknowledge that Elgar composed the 'Enigma' Variations between 21 October 1898 and 20 July 1899. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:1112:380:8818:CBC3:50AB:E627 (talk) 18:46, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Would that not create a conflict with the premiere date of 19 June 1899? I might suggest that the revision in July be mentioned, but the original completion date kept. Many other composers have revised their scores after the first performance, sometimes many years later.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 20:10, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

The addition of 96 bars to the Finale extended the 'Enigma' Variations by approximately 15 percent. That is not a minor revision but rather a major expansion. It would be factually accurate to acknowledge that the Variations were not completed until 20 July 1899.

The section labeled History incorrectly states the 'piece was finished 18 February 1899...' However, the autograph score indicates the orchestration was not completed until 19 February 1899. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:1112:380:60ED:2168:BFE7:4B48 (talk) 22:37, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Dubious

I marked the recent addition that the Enigma machine was named after the Variations as dubious because there is some discussion, IMO justified until further, more reputable sources show up, about that at Talk:Enigma machine#Name from Elgar's Enigma Variations?. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 15:14, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

I noticed, when I came to write here, that there is a warning on the editing page that "Encyclopedic content must be verifiable." Until there is verification then this shouldn't be included just because there is some discussion going on.146.200.40.89 (talk) 10:45, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Usual practice is to leave such statements for a little while to give the original editor and others the opportunity to provide further sources. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 11:10, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

hidden theme

To Hyacinth and others: I think the assertion that "the theme all the variations are based on is never heard. Instead, the piece starts straight away with the first variation" is a little confusing.

Yes, Elgar's enigmatic hidden theme, the one he wrote about, is never heard. However, the piece itself does start with the G minor exposition and, although it's been years since I saw the score, I think it is labeled as the theme. It certainly has that function, and it clearly separate from CAE.

So, if you are distinguishing "the first variation" from "variation 1", it's strictly true, but a little confusing? Does anyone agree this should be reworded, or am I missing some point?

(how does this work - do the contributors get email? I'm new to this thing). --David 01:01, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by DavidBrooks (talk • contribs) 01:01, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Elgar and cryptography

It is distinctly anomalous that in his 1899 program note about an orchestral work dedicated to his friends, Elgar only furnishes the name of a foreign playwright and stranger: Maeterlinck. That surname is followed by the French titles from two of his plays, “L’Intruse” (The Intruder) and “Les sept Princesses” (The Seven Princesses). In the program note, the phrase “Maeterlinck’s ‘L’Intruse’ and ‘Les sept Princesses’” is set apart by two long dashes. Elgar was an expert in cryptography, the discipline of encoding and decoding secret messages. Could his conspicuous Maeterlinck phrase be a cipher?

The unique first initials from Elgar's Maeterlinck phrase are “MLaSP” (Maeterlinck’s ‘L’Intruse’ and ‘Les sept Princesses’), a reverse acrostic anagram of PSALM. This phrase has precisely 46 characters, a figure that alludes to Psalm 46. That famous chapter is known as “Luther’s Psalm” because it inspired his greatest hymn, “Ein feste Burg” (A Mighty Fortress). This Maeterlinck cryptogram implicates Luther’s most famous hymn as the covert Principal Theme to the Enigma Variations. The remaining initials “IL” (Maeterlinck’s ‘L’Intruse’ and ‘Les sept Princesses’) produce the Roman numerals for 49. That number may be interpolated as a coded form of 46 because the glyph for 9 is identical to 6 in an inverted form.

There is a second tier to this Maeterlinck Cipher. The German initials for the secret melody (E.F.B.) are ingeniously enciphered by the nationalities associated with Elgar’s program note. Elgar is an English composer whose explanatory note for the Enigma Variations is in his native language. In his remarks, he refers to the Belgian playwright Maeterlinck and the French titles of two plays. These three nationalities (English, French, and Belgian) are an acrostic anagram of the initials for the covert Theme: Ein feste Burg. In a remarkable display of cryptography, the phrase “Maeterlinck’s ‘L’Intruse’ and ‘Les sept Princesses’” efficiently encodes Psalm 46 and the initials for the secret melody. These two overlapping ciphers encode a set of mutually reinforcing solutions in which one affirms and authenticates the other.

A related cryptogram is formed by seven discrete performance directions in the first bar of the Enigma Theme’s orchestral score. Those seven terms are Andante., legato e sostenuto, molto express., and Piano). The first letters of these seven Italian words are an acrostic anagram of “EE’s Psalm.” The dual Es are the initials for Edward Elgar.

1. e
2. espress.
3. Piano
4. sostenuto
5. Andante.
6. legato
7. molto

Elgar indicated the tempo for the Enigma Theme by writing a quarter note followed by an equals sign (=) and the number 63. This adds four more characters to the seven other performance directions in the Enigma Theme’s opening bar for a grand total of 46 characters. That precise sum implicates Psalm 46. The Enigma Theme is set in the parallel keys of G minor and G major. The accidentals for those key signatures are B-flat, E-flat, and F-sharp. The letters of those accidentals (B, E, and F) are an anagram of the initials for Ein feste Burg. The keys of the Enigma Theme effectively unlock Elgar's contrapuntal strongbox to reveal the initials of the covert principal Theme.

There are some remarkable parallels between the Program Note Maeterlinck Cipher and the Enigma Theme’s Performance Directions Cipher. Both employ acrostic anagrams to encode the word “Psalm” and link it to character totals adding up to 46. The initials for Ein feste Burg are enciphered as acrostic anagrams by the nationalities in the 1899 Program Note (English, French, and Belgian) and the accidentals for the parallel key signatures of the Enigma Theme (E-flat, F-sharp, and B-flat). The matching decryptions of these two ciphers via acrostic anagrams defy a fortuitous origin. The precision and ingenuity of these two ciphers illustrate Elgar’s genius for cryptography, a neglected field of study deserving of more rigorous investigation and analysis.Robert W. Padgett (talk) 23:50, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

History

The article incorrectly states "The piece was finished on 18 February 1899 . . ." However, the autograph score documents that the orchestration was completed on 'FEb 19th, 1899' in Elgar's own script. In addition, Elgar appended 96 bars to Variation XIV (E. D. U.) between 30 June and 20 July 1899. For this reason, Elgar did not technically complete the Variations until 20 July 1899.2603:8081:15F0:7A60:6D67:EFFF:4FDE:8FAA (talk) 22:51, 26 March 2023 (UTC)