Talk:Euro coins/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions about Euro coins. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

2002-2003 discussions

I'd though it might be interesting to give a full overview of the euro in all its incarnations, including all national sides. These will be found in separate pages linked to in this article, since I guess that it would be too graphics-intensive to put them all on one page. I'm not entirely certain that these images are copyright-free per se. I got them from the ECB and there is no mention of copyright and no contact address that I've found. I have, however, encountered these images on other sites as well, without any copyright notice. I'm under the presumption these images are free to use in the context of Wikipedia, but please correct me, or remove them, if I am clearly mistaken. I have further taken the liberty of converting the .gifs to .pngs. I will add the national sides and the euro banknotes in the coming days. -Scipius

The euro banknotes (the real, not photo's)have a copyright symbol on them. The coins not. Only the coins have one side that is different. The banknotes are all the same. The only way to know from what country it's originaly from is looking at the first letter of the serialnumber of the note. That's the only difference. -- User:giskart

Yes, I know that, I was talking about the images themselves. I will elaborate further on the nature of the notes when I put the article up, including the country codes (there is also a printer code). I take it there won't be a problem with the copyright of the notes either. -Scipius

There are Euro coins for Monaco, San Marino, and the Vatican. Will these also be addressed in individual articles? See http://europa.eu.int/euro/html/dossiers/00209/html/c001-5.html

I'm well aware of those countries having their own designs, but I'm still undecided on whether to add them. There are two reasons: one is that I've not been able to find images that are of the same quality as the others. The ECB does not provide images of these non-affiliated countries. The other is that these coins are extremely rare and not really meant for general circulation IMHO. Just like the older coins from these countries, the euro coins are intended largely for coin collectors, not the general public, though some may end up there. We might add those, but then we could also include the various euro coins minted for special occasions and the special large denomination (€ 10, 20, 50 or 100, etc.) coins that are made in limited quantities, all intended for coin collectors as well of course. Naturally, anyone's free to add those, but at this moment I think it's a little too much. I'm also not certain about the copyright of the images I have seen of these coins, but that is probably not a big problem (they're everywhere). I'll probably add the three mini-states at some point (or someone else might), but let's first see how much interest there is in the 12 there are now.

I have for now added in text what is depicted on the coins of the three to satisfy any immediate curiosity ;). I've also re-instated the former list order instead of an alphabetic one. This order is not random, it is in fact alphabetic, but is instead based on the country-names in their own language (Germany is Deutschland here, Greece is Ellas, Spain España, Dutch for Nederlands, Austria Österreich and Finland is Suomi) and this is the order used by the ECB and elsewhere in European affairs (see also the tables for the euro banknotes). -Scipius

But such an unintuitive ordering shouldn't be used without some sort of explanation, so I've added one. --Zundark, Tuesday, June 11, 2002

That's a good point ;) -Scipius

So what is Ireland alphabetized as? "Eire" is out of order, and "Gaeilge", which is in order, refers to the language. -phma

Ireland is alphabetized as "Ireland". --Zundark 09:33 Sep 15, 2002 (UTC)

See Talk:Euro for justification of using the plurals euros and cents

Roybadami

I'm not too keen on this external link to Euro Coins that 195.34.133.60 has just put in -- they're a controversial concern in numismatic circles, as they produce what they call "proof" coins of British and Danish euros (see their main page) which they then sell off, even though they have no official standing. Technically those British and Danish euros are "fantasies". -- Arwel 01:24 Mar 18, 2003 (UTC)

added: "including design exercises for the UK and Denmark" - Patrick 01:33 Mar 18, 2003 (UTC)

I'm not sure I follow your meaning - it sounds like the design exercises are for the governments of the UK and Denmark, whe in fact they are for no-one but themselves! Arwel 01:45 Mar 18, 2003 (UTC)

Okay, I made it design fantasies. - Patrick 01:58 Mar 18, 2003 (UTC)

OK - I didn't realise what you'd done the first time, as I had the old page cached in my browser and I couldn't see the new version. This'll teach me to purge my caches every so often! :-) -- Arwel 02:02 Mar 18, 2003 (UTC)

"The coins were minted in several of the participating countries, using blanks produced at Birmingham Mint, Birmingham, England" -- can we have clarification of what is meant by this? As it stands, it reads as if all the euro coins of all countries were produced from blanks produced in Birmingham, which I cannot believe is true. Alternatively, just the coins of some of the ministates? It needs to be disambiguated, anyway. -- Arwel 18:52, 21 Nov 2003 (UTC)

&Having done some Googling; I've qualified taht as "many". What disambiguation?Andy Mabbett 19:07, 21 Nov 2003 (UTC)
- I think your statement is still ambiguous. As far as I know, ALL the EU euro-using countries minted mostly their own coins, with some additional production outside their own mints (for example, I think a lot of the Netherlands coins were produced in the UK; Greek coins were produced in Finland and Spain, as well as in Greece). It's not at all clear from reading what you've added whether the blanks produced in Birmingham applies just to Monaco/San Marino/Vatican or to all the countries. If the latter case, then I think you're giving Birmingham undue prominence as blanks were produced in other places too! -- Arwel 19:25, 21 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Tax evasion

As for Andorra, it has secured the right to mint its own national reverse from the EU since the country will join the EU tax evasion system in 2005. "tax evasion system" Is this correct? --DB

I presume it refers to a control system to counter tax evasion. If they have genuinely termed such a control system the "EU tax evasion system" that is quite confusing. zoney ♣ talk 13:16, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Materials

Does anyone know what materials are used in each coin and how they are manufactured. For example, the small denomination "copper" coins, are they made of a "pure" copper alloy all the way through, or is the copper a coating over some other metal? What alloys are used in each coin?

Commemorative issues

Those are horribly out of date. For a good overview, see this German site; before I start any revamping, though, I'd prefer some input. Should I remove all images of commemorative issues from the "(COUNTRY NAME) euro coins" pages and write a new "€2 commemorative issues", to be linked to from here? I prefer this over adding all commemorative issues of a given country to the respective euro coins sub-page, but I want to hear what other people have to say. ナイトスタリオン…ㇳ–ㇰ 01:32, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Hello, may I suggest you to have a look on the Wikipédia in french, you will find different items about the euro coins :
- first item : the euro in circulation (normal coins) : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro_%28pi%C3%A8ces_destin%C3%A9es_%C3%A0_la_circulation%29
- second item : the 2 euros commemoratives : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro_%28pi%C3%A8ces_comm%C3%A9moratives_de_2_euros%29
- thrid item : the collections coins in euros :http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_pi%C3%A8ces_de_collection_en_euros_non_destin%C3%A9es_%C3%A0_la_circulation
- I hope you will find all the informations you want. If not, just say it, I ll do my possible to improve theses items.--Flafla89 12:29, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the information; however, I already had all that information. I was just asking for input on how to implement it into Wikipedia. Thanks anyway, though, very well-written and -designed pages. ナイトスタリオンㇳ–ㇰ 15:12, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Andorra?

Is there any information on what the design for Andorra's Euro coins will be? Will they follow the pattern of other monarchies and place the Co-Princes on the coins, despite having to change it every time a new President of France is elected? Nik42 08:13, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

To the best of my knowledge - and I think I'm rather well informed on this subject, usually - there hasn't been any word on Andorra's design plans up to now. Then again, there hasn't been too much on Andorra and the euro in general, either, ever since they started their negotiations on a monetary agreement, so I've got exactly no clue regarding what point they're at right now.

ナイトスタリオン ✉ 08:48, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Andorra prior to 2002 used both the French Franc & the Spanish Peseta, so it is therefore automatically a member of the Euro-zone. Andorra's coins were denominated in Diners & Cèntims, but these were not issued for circulation, & only issued to collectors. - (Aidan Work 02:37, 18 December 2005 (UTC))

Legal tender euros at the Isle of Man

The article states: However, the Isle of Man was the first to produce legal tender euros, when it minted commemorative €10 and €50 coins in 1997 and 1998. How can commemorative euro coins be legal tender before the currency was even established in 1999 and in a country where the euro is not the official currency? Nevertheless, if the statement is true, are those coins just legal tender on the Isle of Man or within the whole Eurozone? 85.124.182.40 14:44, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

I agree with you. These coins from Isle of Man should be considered as token or fantasy coins (at least, as collection coins). If you check in the Official Journal of the Council of the European Union :
- Isle of Man is not one of the states adopting the euro
- the first euros coins must be issued after the 1st January 2002.

So, this part of the article should be changed !--Flafla89 18:52, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

I changed it. --Jfruh 21:22, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

There were some medallic pieces struck prior to 1999 denominated in Euros, mostly from the Netherlands. Some French towns, most notably Perpignan issued their own Euro tokens for local circulation for a short period. I am not aware of any Manx medal-coins that are denominated in Euros. - (Aidan Work 02:40, 18 December 2005 (UTC))

Copper coating

Does anyone know how thick is the copper coating on 5, 2 and 1 cent euro coins?

80.221.61.8 21:16, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Where is the criticism section?

I believe we should point out that the euro coins from the micro states are phantom-coins since the never made it to the streets! I have never seen one, or hear from anyone to have seen one. I truly believe they just coined them for selling, thus, making it a bit of a businesss. I think we should somehow point this out in the acticle. James 21 June 2006

Slovenian years

Could someone tell me, what year does Slovenia traditionally put on coins, year of issue, or year of mint? - ^Рэд _хот 11:42, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

When you look at Slovenian euro coins, you can see that the coins show the year 2007. Peter Maas 17:03, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Euro coin usage experience?

I am curious about something and would like a resident or (former/) visitor to Europe to answer this question, perhaps also in the article. In a particular eurozone country, does one come across euro coins from all over the eurozone, or mostly from that country only? Or does the experience vary? If the latter, I would expect the Irish, Greeks, and Finns to usually come across their own countries' euros, because they are separated from the rest of the eurozone. The rest, which is contiguous, might be more conducive to euro coins migrating across national borders. Furthermore, I speculate that small countries such as Luxembourg would be more likely to have "foreign" euro coins circulating within than large countries such as Germany or France. But that's just guessing on my part. Can anyone confirm / deny? LeoO3 17:28, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

German euro coins can be found pretty much anywhere, mainly due to the fact that there's simply so many of them. Furthermore, I have encountered (here in Austria) coins from: Italy, France, Belgium, the Netherlands, and Spain. Nightstallion 09:49, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

In Belgium (20 km from the french border),

50% of the coins are from Belgium,
15% from France,
15% from Germany
5% from Letzeburg
5% from Netherlands
soldus : Italia, Spain, Greece, Austria
very rare : Portugal, Ireland, Finland
no coins : the micro states (Vatican, Monaco, San-Marin)

But the situation should be different in a town as Bruxelles where there are a lot of tourists from others countries.--Flafla89 14:40, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I've found on the web, a site in dutch (http://www.eurodiffusie.nl/index.php) where you can find some theory and statistics about the diffusion of euro coins in Belgium and Nederlands. Rather interessant. --Flafla89 18:15, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

In Ireland we get a lot of coins from other countries - mainly German, Spanish, French and Italian, but I've seen them all at one time or another - except for the micro states and Finland. I'd guess that about 50%-60% of coins in Ireland are Irish issue. I suppose the cause is a mixture of Irish people bringing them back from holidays and tourists from the mainland bringing them over. I remember that I got my first non-Irish coin only a few weeks after the change over - it was German. Seabhcán 11:18, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

I'd put the percentage of Irish coins in change here at 80-90%. That means you pretty much always have foreign euro coins in your change, at about 1 in 5-10 rate. Seabhcán's estimate is wildly off - there is no way ones change is half made up of foreign euro coins. Agree with Seabhcán about having encountered coins from most Eurozone countries here in Ireland. France, Germany and Spain are probably most common, followed perhaps by Netherlands. At the beginning it was uncommon to get foreign euro coins in low denominations (even if my first was an Austrian 5 cent coin!), especially one and two cents. But especially this year, they are more common, usually Spanish for some reason.

One thing about the UK staying out is that it means there is no British monarch on coins here :) zoney ♣ talk 15:51, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

From my memory of visiting Paris, the most common foreign coins where Belgian and German. And the rest pretty much matches geographic proximity. And it is not hard to find non-French coins in any day. Perhaps that has to do with me going to those turist places. --Chochopk 22:44, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

(To Zoney) Yeah you're definitely right. Not that it's a problem really, to me, but Ireland would be absolutey saturated with British coins if they joined. I mean, before euro, you could easily get British pennies a 2p coins, even though they weren't worth the same! Oh and, about the tourist thing (from Chochopk) I would have to disagree. The places that get the most tourists, must be getting tourists from the ones that don't get many tourists. Therefore, it would work both ways. In theory, the amount of coins you leave with, should be roughly equal to the amount you come back with. Therefore (for example) someone from Ireland, would bring a higher than eurozone average of Irish euro coins to Spain. But then would bring a higher than eurozone average of Spanish euro coins back. Of course that should apply to all tourism. - ^Рэд _хот 11:59, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

In Finland, the vast majority of coins I get are from Finland. I often get coins from 10 of the other countries as well, but the rest are a clear exception. I don't get Greek coins very often, Irish coins are so very rare that I only have seen them on a couple of occasions, and coins from the micronations are practically non-existent. JIP | Talk 08:08, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

In Portugal I find maybe 80% to be Portuguese; 10% Spanish and 10% from other countries,mainly German and French. Greek, Irish and Finnish coins are rare. 84.90.18.136 19:58, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
- I must come to Portugal then and spread some Finnish coins around if they're that rare. JIP | Talk 07:08, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Then you will have to bring a big load of notes and coins from Finland! LOL! Due to its geographical isolation, Finnish and Greek notes and coins are so rare outside their home countries. See [1] (and there are more at Currency bill tracking). And when you come back from where ever you visit, you'll need to bring a big load of notes and coins! LOL! That'll be a fun campaign. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 11:21, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

braille?

I don't have a 1-euro or 2-euro coin around so I have to ask people who live in the eurozone. Is there really braille on those 2 coins? (This is regarding a recent change) --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 10:29, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

No, this is not true. The edges are milled distinctly, but that's all. See Euro coins#Special coin features for people with impaired sight. --Red King 00:20, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Euro coins#Special coin features for people with impaired sight is exactly where that someone claims that 1 and 2 euro coins have braille. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 02:47, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Any European wikipedian can help fixing this and at Italian lira, please? --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 21:17, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

There is no braille on either the 1 or 2 Euro coins, at least not the front or the German backside. I suspect the person who wrote it just mistakenly called the edge markings (which also very between countries on the 2 Euro coin) "braille" -- Brazzy 12:51, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Eurocents?

Cents are officialy called "Eurocents". I think we should use this name here instead of "cents".

Maybe true, but in practice people use also "cents". And the website of the European Central Bank [2] also uses "cent". Peter Maas 17:07, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

not true, "cents" can have several official names in here Portugal "Cêntimos" (we only use this word, never "cents"). BTW there are many currencies in here, mostly Brazilian, US, British and former French coins that are being used as 5 or 10 cents, etc among true cents, because their similarity. I spot them. But I recently got cheated with a British coin of 1 pence (similar in size with 5 cents) and 1 US cent (similar in size with 2 euro cents). With so many national sides, one can easily be cheated. Cents aren't real money, but can make a difference in vending machines, when you don't have any more coins, and you need 5 cents, and instead of 5 cent you take from your wallet a useless British pence and the machine doesn't want it. Recently a women wanted to give me an Italian lira as if it was 2 euros! Anyone had the same problem in other member countries? Not a big problem, but happens often, at least with me. --Pedro 00:49, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

What?

"It is small enough to fit almost entirely between the tips of the thumb and index finger of an average adult."

I don't get this sentence. If I stretch my fingers out, I can fit a whole apple entirely between the tips of my thumb and index finger, and I assume this coin is much smaller than that.

Or do I make a circle with the two fingers and try to fit the coin into that? That would make the coin's diameter about 5 cm for my hand, whereas the coin is actually only 16.25 mm wide. — Ливай 21:22, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Agree - it is completely meaningless. I'll take it out. --Red King 00:29, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

And if the thumb and index finger can be on different hands, then I can almost fit a cow between them... =) JIP | Talk 13:46, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Cyprus on new design

When you look on the images of new-designed coins, there you can see that there Cyprus is. It is located quite ungeographically under Crete, but it is there. Please don't revert my deleting of this sentence. Thank you. --UP3 18:45, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

You mean northeast of Crete (or upper right, if you want), not below, but yes, it will be on the new €1 and €2 coins -- but not on the 10, 20 and 50 cent coins, apparently... —Nightst a llion (?) 13:30, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Cyprus is shown quite northeast of Crete on €1 and €2 new coins and south of Crete on 10, 20, and 50 cent new coins. Q43 23:00, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

New And Old Coins

Any info whether the old coins (original design) will be withdrawn in favor of the 2007 design? It seems unlikely, but if anyone knows definitevely, let us know! Q43 23:02, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

(ECB webpage offers images of the 2007 design, but there is no press release at all!) Q43 23:03, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Original € 1 design

The picture of the original € 1 design is incorrect, it shows the 2007 version 80.201.170.61 06:04, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Mass deletion of Euro coin pictures - article merge proposal

Because of the mass deletion of the pictures of Euro coins, I am suggesting the idea that all the denomination of Euro coin articles be merged into this article, as without the pictures (that due to their unfree status, are unlikely to ever be readded back), makes all the articles virtually useless. This is only a proposal, not set in concrete merge request yet. --tgheretford (talk) 14:12, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Why on earth were they deleted? -- Evertype·✆ 12:59, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Presumably lack of a Fair Use Rationale. Process-wonkery has got completely out of hand lately. -- Arwel (talk) 00:52, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

All someone needs to do is take photos of the relevant coins and license their photos under GFDL. zoney ♣ talk 13:55, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Where are the links to the articles that should have the photos (I couldn't find any of them)? I've got a fairly substantial collection of the commonly circulating coins, at least, and a digicam with macro mode and I'm not afraid to use them.194.109.254.26 19:26, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

What kind of photo do you want? I mean backgrounds and that stuff, I have a digicam and coins too. And how I licence them?IRU 06:43, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Obtained from the ECB copyright and disclaimer page:

Subject to the exception below, users of the ECB's website may make free use of the information obtained directly from it subject to the following conditions:

When such information is distributed or reproduced, it must appear accurately and the ECB must be cited as the source.
Where the information is incorporated in documents that are sold (regardless of the medium), the natural or legal person publishing the information must inform buyers, both before they pay any subscription or fee and each time they access the information taken from the ECB's website, that the information may be obtained free of charge through the ECB's website.
If the information is transformed by the user (e.g. by seasonal adjustment of statistical data, calculation of growth rates) this must be stated explicitly.
When linking to the ECB's website from business sites or for promotional purposes, the ECB's website must be the sole element of the browser's window (i.e. must not appear within another website's frame).

As an exception to the above, any reproduction, publication or reprint, in whole or in part, of documents that bear the name of their author(s), such as ECB Working Papers and ECB Occasional Papers, in the form of a different publication, whether printed or produced electronically is permitted only with the explicit prior written authorisation of the ECB or the author(s).
It seems to me that there are no copyright implications as regards use of images of coins, which are freely available on the ECB website Hammersfan 01/08/07, 00.29 BST

The second point is the problem, according to commons:Commons:Deletion_requests/Template:Eurocoins.

If someone takes photos and releases them under a free license they will still be unfree because the coin design itself is copyrighted, so just add Template:Money-EU coin national and a fair use rationale (like "used to identify the coin in its article"). -- memset 16:06, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

New design

Initially look —Preceding unsigned comment added by Timurberk (talk • contribs) 11:35, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Fakes

There should be a mention of fakes on here preferably with a picture. AJUK ^Talk!! 21:32, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Turkey cut out of new euro coins map

[3] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.173.162.129 (talk) 12:07, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Euro gold and silver commemorative coins

I just started a new article (Euro gold and silver commemorative coins), and planning to work on it every day little by little. Would it be OK if I reference it as a main article under this section? Miguel.mateo (talk) 02:23, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

5 kwacha coins

From NOS teletekst:

The police in Belgian Verviers warns against coins from Malawi that resemble the two euro coin. The coin, worth five kwacha, has the same size and colours, but a different imprint. The coin is worth two euro cents.

A 5 kwacha coin.

Thought that you might find that interesting. Shinobu (talk) 23:33, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Forum

I added a link to a euro related forum, this forum is not commercial and the sole intention is to gather all the euro collectors in one place – is that okey?--Melitikus (talk) 07:42, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

No it's not, see WP:External links#Links normally to be avoided, No. 10 Links to social networking sites (such as MySpace or Fan sites), discussion forums/groups (such as Yahoo! Groups), USENET newsgroups or e-mail lists. These are the rules. Snappy56 (talk) 08:42, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Infobox

Does someone want to deplot Template:Infobox Coin on the pages, or is that lacking for a reason?- J Logan ^t: 20:54, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Someone has to adjust the template so that both sides aren't needed in the infobox (national sides). - SSJ ☎ 02:54, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Would it be possible to use some kind of drop down system for the national side? Actually, would be a bit to complicated wouldn't it...- J Logan ^t: 10:06, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

The national sides are already placed in huge galleries below. - SSJ ☎ 13:36, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

title

Anyone object to following the naming convention of similar articles and renaming Coins of the euro?- _JLogan ^t: 20:52, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, I object! Coins of the euro sounds a) like a translation from a foreign language b) very old fashioned english. Ask yourself have you heard this expression in speech or seen it in print, I've never come across it until now. What is wrong with euro coins, it short, simple and accurate? Snappy56 (talk) 08:46, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Granted, the nature of the name does not lend itself to the naming conventions. But I have to say I don't much fancy the current title either, its sounds a bit amateurish/general.- _JLogan ^t: 13:43, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

What is the numismatic standard for this? Snappy56 (talk) 07:06, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't think the WikiProject has one, I'm just following the system followed by all other pages (whether that was agreed or evolved).- _JLogan ^t: 09:44, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Shiny coins

Hi... What is the best metal cleaner to make euro coind shiny? I've tried using Kaboom, it works for a few hours, but then it gest a strange fungus-like smudges. What's the right cleaner? — Hurricane Dev o n @ 21:01, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Cillit bang works well http://www.cillitbang.co.uk/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.150.28.132 (talk) 20:11, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Obverse or reverse?

The third sentence of this article seems to contain an error, according text further in the article (see Common side), and to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obverse_and_reverse (see Specific currencies/Coins of the European Union). Shouldn't it say: "The coins have a common reverse, portraying a map of Europe, but each country in the Eurozone has its own design on the obverse..."? I am not a coin expert and am not qualified to unilaterally make a change, but am only trying to make sense of a contradiction within the article. Llednew.rm (talk) 16:05, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi there, "The coins have a common obverse, portraying a map of Europe, but each country in the Eurozone has its own design on the reverse" is correct. Can you tell me where did you find the contradiction? Thanks, Miguel.mateo (talk) 16:17, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

"Obverse" and "reverse" indicate the two different sides of a coin, if that's what's confusing you. Cheers. Ford MF (talk) 16:23, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I think I managed to find the incorrections and just fixed them, let me know if you find any others. To clarify: the obverse is the common side, the reverse is the national side. Thanks, Miguel.mateo (talk) 16:25, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

All the sources I could find at ecb.eu and europa.eu seem to talk of a common reverse side and a national obverse side.--Boson (talk) 22:13, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I will provide the sources soon, but the information in the article is correct now. Thanks, Miguel.mateo (talk) 00:13, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obverse#Coins_of_the_European_Union, the obverse is the national side, but this article says it's the common side. I don't know which is correct, but the articles ought to agree. sten for the win (talk) 01:27, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

I have fixed it, I completely forgot to fix it in this article. To clarify, the reverse is the common side while the obverse is the national side, I was wrong before. Let me know if you find discrepancies somewhere else. Thanks, Miguel.mateo (talk) 02:02, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Does anyone know what the middle term in the alloy specification Cu75Ni25/Ni7/Cu75Ni25 is? I guess it's the thickness of the pure nickel middle layer, but is it in percent or what? Enp-news (talk) 22:59, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Small Denominations and Rounding

The section on small denomination coins is confusing. In the Netherlands, at least, prices are not rounded, that is, there are 99 cent articles. What is rounded is the transaction total, that is, the amount you pay at the cash register. So for one 99 cent article you pay 1 Euro (not 99c), for two you pay two Euros (not 1.98), for three you pay 2.95 (not 2.97), etc. This is not clear, and also means that the "German criticism" does not make much sense. I would have changed this, had I known the situation in Finland and Belgium. I don't want to describe the situation in just Holland. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.27.152.126 (talk) 14:32, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Dead link

The reference titled "'Most sophisticated' fake euro coin network uncovered in Italy" currently leads to a 404 error page (see link). --85.179.238.72 (talk) 10:58, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

"Euros" and "cents" as plurals

As there have been a large number of edits regarding this, can there be a offical position on wheather its cent or cents and euro and euros —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.145.53.61 (talk) 22:10, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

The official position is euro and cent, I think thought that needs to be written in the prose somewhere so we avoid this problems in the future, I will try to do that later. Miguel.mateo (talk) 00:23, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Never mind the official position, common usage by the majority of English-speaking people is the natural plural, i.e. "euros" and "cents". Wikipedia should not promote misspellings. 87.175.20.54 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 10:29, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia should not promote throlling either ... check the answer i nthe other talk page. Miguel.mateo (talk) 11:56, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Nevertheless, the Irish Central Bank, which supplies the only English-speaking country which uses the currency from day-to-day, uses "cent" as the plural. It is not for Wikipedia to set itself up as the arbiter of proper usage - in the context of the euro, "cent" is the plural, and cent it stays. -- Arwel Parry _(talk) 13:10, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Incorrect, Arwel. The official recommendation is to use the plural forms "euro" and "cent" in legislation and to use the plural forms "euros" and "cents" in material intended for the general public. An encyclopaedia like the Wikipedia should do the latter. -- Evertype·✆ 14:56, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Please go to Talk:Euro a long explanation is written there with references to ECB policies. Miguel.mateo (talk) 15:15, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Believe me, Miguel, I am very well informed about this topic.... -- Evertype·✆ 16:48, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

According to our linguistics page on this, the Irish have been using the official s-less plural due to its adoption by the media. So as the people of the only English speaking eurozone country are using it, I think it is safe for us to stick to the official usage here.- _J.Logan`^t: 09:52, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

It is untrue to say that everyone in Ireland uses the s-less plural. The natural plural thrives despite the media. The argument that "Ireland is the only country that uses the currency and they use the s-less plural" is unconvincing; in this matter majority usage in the English language worldwide, and the recommendation of the Commission that in non-legislative text the natural plurals are preferred, should guide the Wikipedia, as it has for a good long time (since 2002, reiterated by consensus in 2004). -- Evertype·✆ 18:31, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

I was not intending to convey the idea that everyone uses it (that would be impossible for anything regardless) nor was I intending it as a stand alone argument. I was merely making the point that it has widespread public use as well as being the official preference - hence providing a more balanced usage than is being claimed and than its rival.- _J.Logan`^t: 20:46, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

"Balanced"? In what way? The legislative s-less plural is recommended for legislation only (despite the cock-up in Ireland). As Wikipedia is not legislation, and as the overwhelming majority of English speakers worldwide use the natural plurals, we should use the natural plurals here regularly, as policy. And this was discussed in 2002 and confirmed in 2004, as I have noted. (Will the problem ever go away? Perhaps if we get a new government in Leinster House and a new Minister for Finance has a word with RTÉ.) -- Evertype·✆ 07:57, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I am going to ask this: how do you say YEN in plural? Why? The same applies to EURO, which is a new word. With CENT people may have an angle, but we can always say that CENT is a diminutive of EURO-CENT, which is the real denomination. If the ECB states, as clearly put earlier in the Euro article, thet in English the plural of euro is euro, then there is no room for exceptions; common day use can be mentioned in the article (as it is written now) but getting beyond that I think is incorrect. I have cited a very good web site that explains the plurals in all languages, and clearly says euro for English. Thanks, Miguel.mateo (talk) 01:00, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Yen is one of very few currencies that are not used with a plural form in English. If you carefully read current statements by the ECB and read their own publications, I think you will see that they do not recommend use of the singular form for the plural (when not citing existing legislation) and in fact themselves consistently use the plural form "euros" for amounts etc. ("conversion into euro" but "1000 euros"). The ECB (whose working language is English) now seems to be quite clear that the spelling "euro" applies only to the nominative singular (in all languages).See Talk:Euro.--Boson (talk) 06:53, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Actually, euro is not a new word; there are wallaroos called euros. But more to the point, as a word ending in -o, the euro is analogous to peso pl. pesos; compare also cruzados and cruzeiros and esciudos and francos and pisos. Note that in Spanish, French, and Portuguese the plural is euros. Understand that the only reason the s-less plural has any "currency" in Ireland is that the broadcasters took their cue from the Minister for Finance and his Euro Changeover Board, and they misread the EC directives and got it wrong and never put it right. Observe that your statement that the "real denonomiation" is euro-cent is incorrect, as is your assertion that because the word is new it may avoid the natural plural formation of the English language. -- Evertype·✆ 07:57, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Can I know what are we discussing now? I just read the article again and satisfies me and I think it satisfies the "pro s" group. So what are we talking about? Miguel.mateo (talk) 09:02, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I guess we were discussing policy, which is to use the natural plurals euros and cents in this encyclopaedia. Having said that, the two sentences describing the plural at the top of the article were really off-topic, so i've removed them. -- Evertype·✆ 10:28, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Recent edits changing the plural back to invariant "cent" rather than "cents"

I thought we had agreed to stick to the official EU usage, which is clearly to use the plurals "euros" and "cents" – except actually on coins/notes (where it needs to be international) and in (old) EU legislation. See Linguistic issues concerning the euro#English. Also see the lengthy discussion at Talk:Euro/Archive_6#.22Euros.22_and_.22cents.22_as_non-legislative_plurals. That includes a large number of quotations from the ECB and quotations from EC style guides:

20.8 The euro. Like ‘pound’, ‘dollar’ or any other currency name in English, the
word ‘euro’ is written in lower case with no initial capital. Where appropriate,
it takes the plural ‘s’ (as does ‘cent’): This book costs ten euros and fifty cents

When a monetary unit is referred to generally but an amount is not included, it is written in letters, except in tables (see ‘When to use the ISO code (EUR)’): an amount in euros

--Boson (talk) 06:22, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Apologies if I'm rehashing an old debate. The main reason I reverted was because, to me at least, after ten years of avoiding the 's', "euros" and "cents" sound odd. There are often occasions when we chose to ignore the institutional guidelines, and I don't believe they really constitute "usage". IMHO there are only two kinds of usage: (1) official/legal usage and (2) actual usage in the eurozone. The ECB still seem quite convinced concerning the first, style guide or otherwise:

"2.2.6 SINGLE SPELLING OF THE EURO

Article 3(4) of the Treaty on European Union lays down that the 'Union shall establish an economic and monetary union whose currency is the euro'. In the texts of the Treaties in all the authentic languages written using the Roman alphabet, the euro is consistently identifi ed in the nominative singular case as 'euro'. In the Greek alphabet text, the euro is spelled 'ευρώ' and in the Cyrillic alphabet text the euro is spelled 'евро'. Consistent with this, Council Regulation (EC) No 974/98 of 3 May 1998 on the introduction of the euro makes it clear that the name of the single currency must be the same in all the offi cial languages of the Union, taking into account the existence of different alphabets. The Treaties thus require a single spelling of the word 'euro' in the nominative singular case in all Union and national legislative provisions, taking into account the existence ANALYSIS of different alphabets.

In view of the exclusive competence of the Union to determine the name of the single currency, any deviations from this rule are incompatible with the Treaties and should be eliminated. While this principle applies to all types of national legislation, the assessment in the country chapters focuses on the NCBs' statutes and the euro changeover laws." (Report of May 2010)

As far as the second is concerned usage is mixed, although this is really only my own personal impression. — Blue-Haired Lawyer ^t 00:03, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

This is a misunderstanding. The word "single" (not to be confused with "singular") is used here in the sense of "common" as in "single currency", i.e there is only one spelling of the word (when used in the nominative singular). I suppose it is possible to interpret the ECB rules to mean that the word is always used in the nominative singular but this is nonsense in any language that uses case as well as number and it must be (and is) interpreted to mean that (only) the nominative singular is "euro"); the word is declined normally, according to the rules of the language concerned. Actual usage by the ECB makes this very clear (see quotes cited earlier: Talk:Euro/Archive_6#Some quotes from the ECB).--Boson (talk) 06:12, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

The guidance of the EC Translation Unit is clear - use natural plurals except in legislative contexts. EN.Wiki should follow this guidance and use the natural plurals in English – thus 10 euros and ten cents. This is the convention used in all UK, US, AU, NZ and some IE media. --Red King (talk) 23:33, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Is that a weener on the €2 coin? 1999-2006

I notice that the article makes nothing is written concerning probably the biggest and funniest design mistakes ever to be seen on a coin, the flaccid circumcised penis of Sweden. A news story on the image.

Apparently the Swedes were outraged. here

There is no denying the similarity!

It would appear that the rest of Wikipedia's editors would prefer to only make an offhand comment about "the unfortunate appearance given to Finland and Sweden in the original design" without elaborating on what that appearance is. Nevermind that Wikipedia policy holds that Wikipedia is not censored. 24.214.230.66 (talk) 06:52, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

I wouldn't expect an encyclopaedia to indicate chance similarities with anatomical features. I would expect citation of a reliable source for the sentence including "unfortunate appearance", which might imply that the design change had something to do with the apparent similarity. If reliable sources quoted outraged Swedish politicians, I suppose that might make it noteworthy enough to include it. --Boson (talk) 07:40, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

WP:NOTCENSORED comes to mind. 24.214.230.66 (talk) 16:10, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Fourteen-year-old English schoolboys and editors of The Sun come to mind. --Boson (talk) 20:30, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Over use of non-free images

At the end of March 2011, I raised an issue regarding the heavy use of non-free images on numismatics articles at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Numismatics#Usage_of_non-free_images. Three weeks later, there's been no response. My intention is to remove much of the non-free content of coins/notes from this article for violating WP:NFCC #3a, requirement for minimal use, and WP:NFCC #8, since many/all of the non-free images are designs not specifically referred to in the text by externally sourced commentary. If you have concerns about this issue, your are invited to discuss it at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Numismatics#Usage_of_non-free_images. Thank you, --Hammersoft (talk) 19:54, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Speedy Image Deletions

An image used in this article, File:2004vat.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations

An image used in this article, File:2006vat.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations
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An image used in this article, File:1 cent coin Ee.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations
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An image used in this article, File:5 cent coin Ee.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations
An image used in this article, File:10 cent coin Ee.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations
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An image used in this article, File:1 euro coin Ee.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations
An image used in this article, File:2 euro coin Ee.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations
An image used in this article, File:Newcommon 2euro.gif, has been nominated for speedy deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations

What should I do?