Talk:FC Barcelona/Archive 7

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Organizational chart

Which one is better to draw an organizational chart?

L'organigrama de l'àrea de futbol, definit

or

Organigrames-FC-Barcelona-2022_Edici-WEB_24102022-CAT.pdf Masoud.h1368 (talk) 17:32, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

سجاد علي — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.236.188.234 (talk) 12:43, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Edit Request

Change the Captain Name of FC Barcelona from Lionel Messi to Sergio Busquets. It is stated in the beginning of Sergio Busquet's article that he is the current captain of Barcelona. Not only Wikipedia, but other sources also state that he is the captain now. In a game that Barca played, the screen showed him as the captain. Memer15151 (talk) 21:41, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Please provide the reliable sources instead just saying they exist. Lightoil (talk) 03:25, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergio_Busquets first paragraph. Memer15151 (talk) 11:55, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

@Memer15151: Wikipedia is not considered a reliable source as a citation. Lightoil (talk) 08:17, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

sergi Roberto is the first captian of Barcelona now. Editor00744 (talk) 18:36, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Not been updated.

Players such as Pablo Torre haven't been added to the squad. Along with this, updates on Trincao officially moving to Sporting Lisbon hasn't been done either. Editor00744 (talk) 18:35, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi Editor00744,

Pablo Torre is added to the reserve team list as he officially does not have a contract with the first team yet.

Trincao — Could you provide an official document or a statement from Sporting Lisbon/Barça saying that the player has definitely been bought?

Captains — The fact that Sergio Roberto was one of the captains last season does not mean that he has to be a captain in the following one. Once the club communicates the new captains will be added.

I hope I have solved your doubts. The Penfield Homunculus (talk) 20:49, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi, didn't see Torre as added to the reserve team list. I've seen rumours of the Trincao deal and swear I've seen him offically sold but probably dreamt it. Roberto is part of the captains and is the first captain now as Alba and Busquets have left the club. We don't know about the others yet. Editor00744 (talk) 10:25, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 June 2023

I Would like to Modify the pary where is says la liga 2021-22 as the 2022-23 season is over and they won the la liga.Thats all JordanPETTIT (talk) 04:06, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi JordanPETTIT,

The section you mention always refers to the previous season. Officially, the 2023-24 season doesn't start until July 1st. It will be then that it will be modified. I hope I was able to resolve your doubt. The Penfield Homunculus (talk) 17:02, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please see The Penfield Homunculus' comment. M.Bitton (talk) 20:52, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Remove Francisco Trincão from the List of players

As he moved to another club at 1 Jul 2023, Source [1]https://www.transfermarkt.com/trincao/profil/spieler/412669 Hazemibnessam (talk) 03:48, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

Official last statements for Trincão:

1. https://scpconteudos.pt/sites/default/files/comunicadocmvmtrincao.pdf

2. https://www.fcbarcelona.com/en/noticias/2672239/trincao-cedido-al-sporting-de-portugal/amp

Conclusion: It is not official yet. The Penfield Homunculus (talk) 03:19, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

transfer

Fransisco trincao left last week to Sporting CP for 7 million, he is longer playing for FC Barcelona 71.38.139.123 (talk) 00:48, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

See previous section. The Penfield Homunculus (talk) 03:22, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

FC Barcelona 2023/24 Away Kit released

Any codes for Barca new 2023/24 Away kit? It’s been released. It has light blue shorts which is not the same with the home kit, and for the socks which is similar from 2020/21 and 2021/22 home kit. 2600:6C52:7900:67:F997:AC96:BD57:913C (talk) 06:50, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Captain

The new club captain is Sergio Roberto not busquets 196.102.53.223 (talk) 15:57, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Pre-Season kit number issue

@Kante4, I'm reaching out to request your assistance in resolving an ongoing edit conflict regarding the inclusion of pre-season kit numbers. User 'The Penfield Homunculus' has been assigning pre-season kit numbers based on personal speculation, even though the newly transferred players haven't officially been assigned any kit numbers, nor have they been officially registered for the club. Despite having formal contracts with the club, these new players have yet to be assigned kit numbers. Given this situation, should we be adding speculative kit numbers to these players in the 'Current Squad' section, or should we leave them without any kit numbers until official assignments are made? Please help clarify this issue. Thank you for your time. EndzoneEnthusiast 05:04, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

I would leave them out until pre-saeson is over and more is known or they make some kind of official announcement. But first of all, i would talk to The Penfield Homunculus (talk · contribs), here or on his talk page to resolve this matter. That should be always the first step. Kante4 (talk) 08:38, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

This is not my personal speculation. Yes, the numbers are official. The club issued a statement detailing the pre-season numbers. You can see the reference in the header of the players section (number 303). An editing criterion was established for the players section (consensus). Pay attention to what it says in the header when you're in EDITING MODE: READ THIS NOTICE FIRST BEFORE EDITING: (Point 5) Pre-season numbers can be added temporarily with A REFERENCE.

In this featured article it was stablished a consesus for this section. Nothing personal.

Regarding registrations in LaLiga, there is a deadline to make them effective. Almost all clubs have unregistered players. The fact that a player has not registered in a competition does not mean that he is not an employee of it. The registration is only a license as also required by the Champions League.

When a player signs his contract he is officially part of the club. Being pending a registration or license to play a competition does not change this status. The Penfield Homunculus (talk) 14:32, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

@The Penfield Homunculus, while I understand your perspective, I firmly disagree on a few points.

Firstly, Wikipedia's primary purpose is to provide official, accurate information to its readers. This includes details such as kit numbers. It is essential that we adhere to this standard, waiting to display officially assigned kit numbers rather than provisional pre-season ones.

Taking examples from recent events, Barcelona unveiled their players without kit numbers due to initial registration complications. Gavi had to revert back to his academy number after losing his usual no.6 due to similar issues. Such instances demonstrate that pre-season numbers are subject to change and are not always reliable indicators of official season kit numbers.

Furthermore, in the case of Eden Hazard's assignment to the number 50 at Real Madrid - a tribute to Neil Armstrong's 50th anniversary of the Apollo mission - it is clear that kit numbers can hold significant symbolic value. Our responsibility as Wikipedia contributors/editors is to relay these officially assigned numbers, not speculative or temporary ones.

Therefore, I strongly urge that we wait for an official announcement of the season kit numbers before updating the 'Current Squad' section.

I also think it's essential that we respect and consider @Kante4's input in this matter. Their viewpoint could be instrumental in reaching an agreeable and accurate solution for all involved.

For now, I have reverted to the previous edit.

EndzoneEnthusiast 14:57, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

There was a discussion about something similar here. And by no means is my standpoint and view the correct one, we are all the same. Kante4 (talk) 16:31, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

An old standing-consensus has been established on this page. Among all the editors we established an edition criterion in this section and it must be respected. If you want to change this criterion, a consensus must be established again, so debate it again. This is not about a standard. This page is featured article and has its peculiarities. The numbers of players in pre-season can be added with a reference and will be so until there is no other criterion. This is made clear by the editing criteria (visible in editing mode) in this section. I ask, once again, that the consensus be respected. It is not an obligation that there is a standard if the publishers have reached an agreement. The Penfield Homunculus (talk) 16:56, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

READ THIS NOTICE FIRST BEFORE EDITING:

– Do NOT add new players before their signing is officially announced by the club through their website, including medical and signing the contract. A transfer fee agreed doesn't mean the player will sign.

– Do NOT remove players before their exit is officially announced by the club.

– Do NOT add or change squad numbers until it is official on the FC Barcelona website.

– Only add numberless players that are likely to become part of the first team.

– Pre-season numbers can be added temporarily with A REFERENCE.

– This is Wikipedia, not a football newspaper. Anything unconfirmed and unsourced will be removed on sight. The Penfield Homunculus (talk) 16:58, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

@GiantSnowman, expecting your valuable opinion regarding the pre-season kit issue. EndzoneEnthusiast 18:50, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

As I stated recently at WT:FOOTBALL, pre-season friendly/training numbers are NOT to be considered official. GiantSnowman 19:23, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

FC Barcelona issued an official statement announcing the pre-season numbers and on this featured page a consensus was established to add them provisionally with a reference. There is an official statement and there is a long-standing consensus of editors as I explained above. The Penfield Homunculus (talk) 20:09, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

@Kante4, @GiantSnowman, The pre-season has concluded, and the official season is now underway. However, this user continues to modify pre-season statistics without citing any sources. Could you kindly ask The Penfield Homunculus to avoid editing without providing official and verifiable sources? EndzoneEnthusiast 16:51, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

I have given them a final warning, but please do not edit war. GiantSnowman 17:41, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

Could you explain to me why the consensus established for years on this featured page about the player list has no validity? There is only 1 user who believes that this consensus should be changed and the rest of us agree to keep it. On this Talk page there has not yet been a consensus on changing these criteria. It was clearly established that pre-season numbers could be added with a REFERENCE (YOU CAN SEE IT IN THE HEADER OF THE EDITING MODE). There is no standard with other pages because we all agreed on this one. There is a clarifying note that preseason numbers may be tentative with their relevant and FC Barcelona official reference. I am neither changing the editing criteria nor adding any information without any reference. Could you please review my edit and tell me where the error is? If you explain it to me I will understand.. But no one has given me a reason yet. No one has established a new consensus. It only says that the criteria of other pages are followed and I want to remember that this page is featured and there was a consensus… Please, rewiev my next edit and explain me. The Penfield Homunculus (talk) 18:13, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

The edit is pending your review. Expecting your reasons. The Penfield Homunculus (talk) 18:25, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 August 2023

Change in captain of FC Barcelona. PNP101 (talk) 17:25, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 18:06, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 August 2023

FC Barcelona Captain : Sergi Roberto 103.49.202.170 (talk) 07:27, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. – Recoil16 (talk) 10:56, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 August 2023 (2)

“Please change the name of the captain from Sergio Busquets to Sergi Roberto” 31.215.236.10 (talk) 11:37, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. As best I can tell, nowhere in the article does the name "Sergio Busquets" appear. In addition, in the only place where "Sergi Roberto" appears, he is marked as captain. So I'm not sure what change you are requesting. – Recoil16 (talk) 13:20, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Are you by any chance referring to a photo or text shown to the right of a Google search? Google's Knowledge Graph uses a wide variety of sources. There may be a text paragraph ending with "Wikipedia" to indicate that particular text was copied from Wikipedia. An image and other text before or after the Wikipedia excerpt may be from sources completely unrelated to Wikipedia. We have no control over how Google presents our information, but Google's Knowledge Graph has a "Feedback" link where anyone can mark a field as wrong. The same feedback facility is also provided on Bing and some other search engines. – Recoil16 (talk) 13:23, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 October 2023

D1&only.syflo (talk) 18:47, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

To change grammar and typo errors

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 18:54, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Wrong Stadium

How could Camp Nou not me mentioned??? whomever did this is not a Barça fan and knows nothing about futball 50.249.100.33 (talk) 18:19, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 January 2024

Please change captain name 2409:40E3:1025:341A:8000:0:0:0 (talk) 11:43, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. EphemeralPerpetuals (they/them)^talk 13:14, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

The Inter-Cities Fairs Cup and Copa Latina (Latin Cup) are not official titles

The previous version stated that, in European football (with a link to the article "List of UEFA club competition winners"), FC Barcelona had 19 titles. However, the 3 Inter-Cities Fairs Cup and the 2 Copa Latina (Latin Cup) of FC Barcelona are not considered official UEFA competitions, therefore, the statement is incorrect.

Barcelona has currently 14 official European titles (5 UCL, 5 Europe Super Cup, 4 Cup Winner's Cup) DrakeXper (talk) 00:24, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

By obvious reasons, and as the manual of style for other articles about football clubs (See: Real Madrid for example), only those international titles that are official by the international football organizations, FIFA or UEFA (or the equivalent) are mentioned in the lede.

The Inter-Cities Fairs Cup was a non-UEFA championship in which only a handful of European cities participated, those that had trade fairs or commercial agreements between them.

The Latin Cup was a non-UEFA championship in which only some clubs belonging to Latin Europe (Spain, Portugal, Italy and France) participated.

Inter-Cities Fairs Cup and Latin Cup are not official FIFA or UEFA titles. DrakeXper (talk) 17:23, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

We can see here the total UEFA competitions winners: List of UEFA club competition winners

FC Barcelona has 14 official European titles (5 UCL, 5 Europe Super Cup, 5 UEFA Cup Winner's Cup), and 3 FIFA Club World Cups. DrakeXper (talk) 17:52, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

1. The fact that the Fairs Cup and the Latin Cup have not been organized by UEFA does not mean that they are not recognized as official European competitions. Recently, the Supreme Court of the European Union ruled that UEFA did not have the exclusivity of European football. Official competitions can be played independently of UEFA supervision. These two competitions were contested with the supervision and organization of several official statements. If you read the sentence of the article, it makes it very clear: In European football (groups all the European titles) and not in UEFA football. Maybe the link would be wrong. I think the link should be removed.

- Fairs Cup: FIFA recognises Fairs Cup as a major honour. See source: https://web.archive.org/web/20150429022457/https://www.fifa.com/classicfootball/clubs/club=1903416/index.html

- Latin Cup: was organised and recognised by four national federations including RFEF. El Caganer (talk) 19:04, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

In my opinion, the problem is the link to the titles recognized by UEFA. But the fact that the two competitions (Latin and Fairs Cup) are official is more than proven. El Caganer (talk) 19:11, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

They are official in the sense that they existed and were obviously competed for. But they are not UEFA or FIFA titles, and their value is questionable for the Lede as they were not disputed by the vast majority of the rest of the clubs in Europe.

Would you include Joan Gamper in domestic titles? Obviously not, and they are not included. DrakeXper (talk) 19:14, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

My point is that:

1- The article, with a link, implied that they are UEFA (when they are not)

2- The Lede for articles about football clubs (See Real Madrid for example) don't include international titles that are not UEFA. As you can see, Real Madrid's Latin Cups are not included in the Lede. DrakeXper (talk) 19:11, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

I think the link that redirects to the UEFA titles should be removed. The Real Madrid CF page in the Honors section includes the Latin Cup. I think that doubting FIFA is not a good argument to say that they are not official. The link I have attached is from the official FIFA page and make it clear that they are major honors. I want to remind you that last year the RFEF awarded Levante UD a Copa del Rey title (1937) that the federation itself had not organized. Once a national or international federation recognizes a title, it becomes official. El Caganer (talk) 19:26, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

1- We are talking about International titles, not domestic titles.

1- We are talking about the Lede, not sections of the body of the article.

It makes no sense to mention international titles that are not UEFA or FIFA in the Lead. Real Madrid's Latin Cups are not included in the Lead. DrakeXper (talk) 19:32, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Just because Real Madrid CF doesn't have it in their article doesn't mean it has to be the same way in this article. A long-standing consensus has been created in this article for years. I will edit the page again and leave it as it was (I will remove the link that can generate confusion) and if in the next few days there is another consensus among users, I will respect the decision. El Caganer (talk) 19:39, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

I can't find what consensus you're talking about.

Real Madrid was just an example. The custom for any Lede on an article about a European Football Club is to not include international titles that are not from FIFA or UEFA. DrakeXper (talk) 19:56, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

These titles have already been recognized as official by FIFA and official football statistics collectors like IFFHS and RSSSF, so I support El Caganer stance on them remaining in the lead. As for DrakeXper's point that Real Madrid's article doesn't have the Latin Cup in the lead, well it can be added in that article's lead as well and problem solved. These are important titles that paved the way for modern European and Worldwide club competitions to be created, so their importance should be mentioned in the lead and shouldn't be removed, in fact they should also be added in the leads of the other clubs' articles who have also won them. Nori2001 (talk) 20:27, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

As a matter of fact, I just checked the articles of the other clubs that had won the Inter Fairs Cup and they all had it in the lead, you can check out for yourselves in the articles of Arsenal, Roma, Newcastle, Leeds United, Valencia, etc. Nori2001 (talk) 20:35, 18 February 2024 (UTC)