Talk:Gary Carter

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Expo

Carter is only in the Hall as an Expo because the HOF knew the Expos were either being contracted or moving and wanted someone in the Hall with an Expos cap. Carter himself wanted a Mets cap and is more well known as a World Series hero with the Mets. Carter has the exact same profile as Reggie Jackson, who played more years in Oakland and put up better numbers in Oakland but was a World Series hero in NY (except Reggie won more titles in Oakland than NY). 68.173.209.19 13:49, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is may be the ONLY reason he is in the Hall - his numbers don't seem to justify his inclusion - but I couldn't find any reliable sources with which to document that. Bonehed (talk) 09:54, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

His numbers clearly show him to be one of the top 5 offensive catchers of all time (at least at the time of his induction). There are numerous sources for baseball stats. You clearly haven't tried. Additionally, although he was weak at throwing out base runners, he was exceptional at handling pop ups and blocking the plate. Dissento (talk)

No hes in the hall of fame as an Expo becaue he played two times more seasons with the Expos then he did with the Mets.--Yankees10 13:59, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

dude he should have both colors, but what do I know--75.82.16.153 04:55, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Nickname

Who called him "Kid Carter?" I've never heard that nickname used. Source please, or I may delete. Dissento (talk) 19:06, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

[1] --brew crewer (yada, yada) 01:38, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

He was called the "The Kid," but not "Kid Carter." NYCRuss ☎ 01:41, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It should just be "Kid" not "The Kid" - case in point: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/17/sports/baseball/gary-carter-exuberant-power-hitting-catcher-dies-at-57.html?google_editors_picks=true — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.249.110.202 (talk) 02:04, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I thought his nickname was "Camera" Carter 99.248.236.33 (talk) 01:47, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

RIP

Farewell to one of the all time greats

retired number 8?

The article text and infobox contain contradictory information on whether the number has been retired by the Expos. There isn't a citation for either assertion (that is has or that it hasn't been retired). (141.211.173.77 (talk) 16:34, 24 February 2012 (UTC))[reply]

Fractions

Please note that there appear to still be accessibility issues with Template:fraction (though perhaps for the "1/2" case it is appropriately handled by most screen readers, but at the moment, it is still against Wikipedia's manual of style regarding fractions to use the precomposed 1/2 character). The mets=y/Archive 15#Unicode vs. fraction templates in standings|last time this was discussed specifically by WikiProject Baseball |mets=y was some time ago; generally speaking, though, Wikipedia's manual of style and guidance for accessibility should be followed. isaacl (talk) 05:58, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Memories of Carter

Regarding the Verducci quote I moved from the "1986 World Series Champions" section to the section on his illness and death: since the quote mostly deals with Carter's personality and its effects on his teammates throughout his tenure with the Mets, and generally is not specific to the 1986 season, I believe it fits better as an eulogizing statement within the illness and death section. However, if the intent is to just note Carter's role on the team, I think it may be better to include this information as prose with an inline citation to an appropriate reliable source, rather than as a quote. From the existing quote, all that could be said is "Carter was a huge part of the competitiveness of the 1986 team;" I don't think this is sufficiently revealing. isaacl (talk) 07:51, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Verducci was talking specifically about Carter's role on the '86 team. When he refers to Carter as "the ballast of that team," he was talking specifically about the '86 Mets. When he said "Carter was a huge part of that," he's talking about Carter's integral role in the '86M Mets coming from behind in Game 6 to eventually win the World Series. Earlier in the interview he was talking about his at-bat with Calvin Schiraldi, which occurred during the '86 World Series. Additionally, as it stands now, you have quoted Verducci from an article he wrote in SI rather than what I provided originally, which was something he gave verbally while on the Dan Patrick Show. Generally I would think it would be a good idea to let the reader know when an author has written something and when that author verbally stated something. And now the SI piece is right next to the other quote, with seemingly no separation. Lastly, I don't believe the second quote belongs in the Illness and Death subsection, as it is talking about him from the standpoint of a player; that's why I put it in the prose which talks about his playing days as I believe the latter quote is not relevant to his death. I think the earlier quote is a nice summation of the man and is appropriately placed in the Illness subsection, as it's a sort of eulogy. Zepppep (talk) 10:26, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The portion you quoted discusses how Carter was a role model as the team aged, which indicates a reference to the entire time Carter was with the Mets. Perhaps another portion of the interview would better serve as a source of Carter's role on the 1986 team. Following encyclopedic writing style, it doesn't have to be quoted; a prose description of Carter's role can be more concise (with of course adequate citations to illustrate reliability of the description).

Regarding the provenance of a quote, the citation provides this information in a less intrusive way than mentioning it within the text. isaacl (talk) 11:40, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

'86 was only Carter's second year with the bunch, but I think what Verducci was trying to say is that what Kid displayed in '86 and subsequent years with fellow players was something that stuck with them in their mind, after the fast and crazy days of living high on the hog were over. When he compares to him a ballast, he's not just the pillar for the '86 team, but something teammates leaned on in years to come, after the fireworks had faded. I don't think the quote belongs in the Illness subsection as it doesn't have anything to do with his illness or death. When it comes to reading what someone has said/written, the reader shouldn't have to guess -- but anyways, if the entire portion of the verbal interview is listened to, one hears Verducci speak about Carter when he was with the Expos, Mets, and sort of a summary of his career. Maybe it can just be placed in the general NYM subsection and not specifically the '86 WS part. Does that rub you better? He also talks about him as a man (the portion I had put in the "Hall of Fame" subsection which you later replaced with text that basically said the same thing, and then decided to put it in Illness and death subsection). So you're right in that Verducci wasn't exclusively talking about '86 or exclusively talking about later years -- he was in fact talking about both. So prose it is -- I think that's a good recommendation. I'm glad I brought both of Verducci's statements into the article because IMHO the reader has a better idea about the player and the man with them in it. Verducci's writing/statements were so descript, it's sort of what made me think direct quotes were the way to go. But I'm cool with prose for other portions -- so long as they're appropriately placed, which as of now I don't believe they are. I think it's also OK for you to use the SI quote rather than what Verducci said on the DP Show; it's makes for stronger source reliability. Zepppep (talk) 14:13, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not very clear on where a summary of a player's characteristics can best fit into an article, as Wikipedia generally favours a chronological presentation of events. The lead section is one possibility; some player articles have a "Legacy" section that could also include some of this information. For a deceased player, the option is available to providing a eulogizing statement. This is what I've attempted to do here, particularly regarding more personal insights such as Carter's straight-arrowed personality and how it may have influenced his teammates. However, I'll give more thought about how his contributions to his teams can be included elsewhere (most likely, in the lead section). isaacl (talk) 22:52, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

f-bomb

Since Carter was credited with creating the term "f-bomb" by Merriam-Webster, shouldn't it be in the article? -- 76.65.128.252 (talk) 12:38, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If you look at the edit summary, I don't think the editor who reverted your edit had an issue with the mention, just the placement. According to Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section, it should "summarize the most important points." I don't believe this item is one of the article's "most important aspects" and therefore, I have to agree the mention should not be placed in the lead. Zepppep (talk) 13:25, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

More accurately, the first know citation tracked down by Merriam-Webster is from Carter. The information is already in the article; since Carter is best known for his feats on the baseball field, I believe this piece of trivia isn't sufficiently notable for the lead section isaacl (talk) 13:42, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I was not aware of this discussion when I removed the mention. One dictionary cites a comment by Carter as the earliest print citation they have for the use of the term. This does not mean Carter created the term or even that he was the first one to use it. Slang terms often bounce around for a bit before they find their way into print. The source in question does not discuss Carter in any meaningful way, it is a bare mention. Crack open the OED and you will find several hundred thousand earliest-known print citations. Adding all of them to Wikipedia would be a complete waste of time. Why would this example merit inclusion where hundreds of thousands of others do not? - SummerPhD (talk) 15:02, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If the mention is added back, it needs to do so with: 1) "Newsday" italicized, and 2) with a reliable source. The mention does not deserve inclusion without a reliable source. Zepppep (talk) 15:12, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It already had a reliable source when it was removed. -- 76.65.128.252 (talk) 05:06, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The reliable source shows that it was the earliest print citation that dictionary found for the word. That is trivial. Pick up the OED. Pick a word. Look up the word and the person cited (if notable). It's not there? Add it? Repeat 500,000 times. - SummerPhD (talk) 05:20, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The reliable source shows that Merriam Webster credited the term to Gary Carter. Further, this Daily Mail article specifically posits that Gary Carter coined the term. -- 76.65.128.252 (talk) 07:01, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

As previously stated, the newspaper stories (including the Daily Mail article, which is just the same Associated Press article being quoted in the various other stories) state that Merriam-Webster has traced the first known citation of the term to Carter. The body of the article makes no statement about who coined the term (the headline is an inaccurate summation of the actual text). isaacl (talk) 08:24, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Agree as I already stated here. Zepppep (talk) 08:39, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I thought the source was Deadspin but it is actually WSJ Online -- so I now agree the source is reliable. My mistake. If the mention can be put into context (that is, expand on Carter's desire to not use foul language, his belief system, the way he acted vs. his peers) then I could see it warranting inclusion in the body as of right now, the IP currently has two sources which are the subject of the stories found within the sources. I would, however, question using "common" English term and instead just state "term." If you look at other articles, such as GA Rickey Henderson, you'll see "Image and personality" and "Legacy" subsections and FA Ozzie Smith's "Post-playing career" where it's mentioned he was a torchbearer during the 2002 Olympics tour. There's no reason why Carter's off the field persona can't also find inclusion into the article. Providing context is key to a well-written article but I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be mentioned for the time being. Zepppep (talk) 07:34, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding this edit: no consensus was reached in this discussion to include this information. isaacl (talk) 00:14, 12 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

To summarize the issues raised: Carter did not coin the phrase, and is only the quoted speaker in the first cited use. Accordingly the text as currently written is inaccurate. Regarding inclusion in this article, it's not particularly notable for a speaker to be the first one quoted using a particular phrase, if they did not invent it or help spread its use. It might be more notable for an article on the phrase itself. isaacl (talk) 01:42, 12 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I digress. it seems the only reason, I can see, that no consensus was reached is because you are the only stick in the mud. And Carter may or may not have coined the phrase but it seems he, and only him, is being credited with introducing it into popular usage and culture. Hey, Google Carter and f bomb and read the articles ... you see, it seems to matter to quite a few people. So, given that Carter was such a do gooder and the Kid, it is actually quite germane and surprising that he'd make this curious contribution to popular culture. And its only a flipping sentence, give the man that! So stop being the BAD COP and be the BON COP. I grew up in Montreal and man, was he a great player, and great guy, lived in Kirkland, not far from me. Geez, that 81 Dodgers series ripped our hearts out. I hope you will pay for it, Rick Monday! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.26.44.6 (talk) 03:01, 12 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It's an interesting trivia bit.. but as written it was a bit pov... "one of his most lasting legacies?" So I rewrote the mention to a more neutral tone that I think is suitable for inclusion. Spanneraol (talk) 14:37, 12 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Works for me. Merci. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.26.44.6 (talk) 20:35, 12 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Just my opinion but, that comes perilously close to being trivia.Orsoni (talk) 19:07, 25 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Triple-A

I have mets=y/Archive 43#Triple-A started a discussion at the WikiProject Baseball |mets=y discussion page on the capitalization of "triple-A" within the context of the sentence in this article. Comments are welcome. isaacl (talk) 16:19, 2 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Expo

Nickname

RIP

Categories

retired number 8?

Fractions

Memories of Carter

f-bomb

External links modified

External links modified

Triple-A