Talk:George Hirst

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Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
March 7, 2011	Good article nominee	Listed
July 21, 2011	Peer review	Reviewed
September 27, 2011	Featured article candidate	Promoted

Current status: Featured article

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GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:George Hirst/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Harrias ^talk 11:58, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

General comment

I know you haven't been around too much lately with your computer problems, so if you can't get to do these in a hurry, don't worry too much: I won't rush you!

I'm OK actually, as I've borrowed one and get mine back at the end of the week. So normal service sort of resumed, just spending a lot of time reviewing. --Sarastro1 (talk) 17:17, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

"One of the best all-rounders of his time, Hirst was left arm medium-fast bowler and right handed batsman." – I think you need a couple of indefinite articles here to become: ".., Hirst was a left arm medium-fast bowler and a right handed batsman."

Done. --Sarastro1 (talk) 17:17, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Around 1900, his bowling re-emerged when he became one of the first bowlers to deliberately make the ball swing and he subsequently took far more wickets." – I'm not too keen on "took far more wickets.", as it seems a bit ambiguous. Did he take far more wickets than he had previously (which I assume is the case), or did he take far more wickets than anyone else, or did he take far more wickets than he scored runs (unlikely!).

Done. Regarding the last (unlikely) situation, may I refer you to the splendid batting of Bill Bowes! But not for a batsman like Hirst, I admit... --Sarastro1 (talk) 17:17, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"..his bowling did not fade.." – encyclopedic language? I'm not too bothered about it, but might be worth looking at?

Agreed, and tried rewording. However, I'm not sure if it works well yet. --Sarastro1 (talk) 17:17, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Early life

Any information on why he was born in an Inn? Was this usual around then, was it owned by his family, or do we have no idea?

Not really; the source I have used does not give a reason and it goes into the most detail about his birth. Another source claims his father/grandfather worked in the pub and owned some associated land. However, I'm not sure how reliable this source is. Brianboulton claimed it could be dubious, and I sort of agree. However, I may be prepared to argue over it at RS as it is published (indirectly) by a university. And it does quote GHH's grandaughter and other interviews by GHH himself. --Sarastro1 (talk) 17:17, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"He scored six runs in his only innings and three wickets in the match." – missing a word before three here: took, claimed, something like that.

Done. --Sarastro1 (talk) 17:17, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

First-class cricketer

per something Jack brought up, should M.C.C. be simply MCC? Personally I also prefer it the classical way, but whichever we choose, I think we need to be consistent across cricket articles.

Meh... I suppose so. Unfortunately. Done. :( --Sarastro1 (talk) 17:17, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

" ".. played 13 first-class matches for Yorkshire as Yorkshire attempted to.." – try and avoid the quick repetition of 'Yorkshire', maybe use 'the county', or 'the club', or just rework the sentence somehow?

Done. --Sarastro1 (talk) 17:17, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"By the end of the season, Yorkshire won the official County Championship for the first time in their history." – sounds a bit weird, maybe simplify it to "That season,"? Not sure, it just didn't sound right! Also, would it be worth noting that this was only the third season of the official County Championship?

Done, and realised I had the year wrong anyway. Yorkshire didn't win until 1893. Fixed that too! --Sarastro1 (talk) 17:17, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Have reviewed as far as the end of Leading all-rounder, will continue later today. Really good work so far. Harrias ^talk 12:22, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"His only representative cricket, came in end of season festival matches, including a Gentlemen v Players match." – Is the comma between cricket and came necessary?

Done. --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:07, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"..limiting his comments to "Sometimes it works.." – per MOS:QUOTE you can drop the capital letter at the start of the quote.

Done. --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:07, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"..his highest total of wickets to date in 1901. – I know what you mean, but reading it, I took "to date" to mean right up until now (2011). Perhaps clarify?

Fixed, I think. --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:07, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"In a summer of sunny weather which brought a succession of good wickets for batting, .." – sounds a little clumsy to me, maybe try something like "In a summer of sunny weather which brought a succession of good batting pitches, .." If you do retain 'wickets' it might be worth noting the dual use of the word, as previous in the article it has been used as a mode of dismissal only (I think?)

Fixed, as per your suggestion. --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:07, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Test match regular

"..preferring both players well rested before the new season." – I can't decide if there should be "to be" in between players and well.

Personally, I feel it flows better without. --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:07, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"He took fewer wickets than the previous season, partly as he was often used for a few overs early in an innings before giving way to Rhodes and Schofield Haigh, who were the leading bowlers in the country at the time." – How come Haigh was regarded as one of the leading bowlers, when it was Hirst who had finished second behind Rhodes in the bowling tables the previous year? Haigh wasn't selected for the Tests that year, which would also seem to jar with this comment.

Tweaked to say that Rhodes and Hirst topped the averages for the season, which was what the source meant here. --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:07, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Have reviewed as far as the end of Test match regular. Harrias ^talk 18:29, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Dominant in county cricket

"..the record individual innings for Yorkshire." – Although I think it's pretty clear, it might be worth stating the obvious that the record is the highest score by a Yorkshire batsman.

Does it work OK now? --Sarastro1 (talk) 20:35, 6 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"However, Hirst was not particularly successful in the three Tests he played, hitting a highest score of 40 not out and he never took more than three wickets in an innings." – Again, a little clarification that these weren't his only three Tests, and that you are merely referring to his Tests that summer.

Done --Sarastro1 (talk) 20:35, 6 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"He also reached the 1,000 run-100 wicket by the end of June, .." – Needs cleaning up, I think there are a few words missing here? Something similar to "He had also reached the 1,000 run and 100 wicket milestone by the end of June, .." ? That's not great, but hopefully you can see what I'm getting at.

Should have said "double". I believe my brain had melted by that stage... --Sarastro1 (talk) 20:35, 6 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

".. earning praise from The Times and Wisden praised his batting under difficult circumstances in these matches." – Possibly tried to fit too much into one sentence here: on first read I thought it meant that he earnt praise from The Times and Wisden, but then the second praise caught me off guard.

Horrible sentence which I hope is now fixed. --Sarastro1 (talk) 20:35, 6 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewed to end of Final Tests: too many words addle my brain! Harrias ^talk 14:10, 6 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think that was my problem when I wrote it... --Sarastro1 (talk) 20:35, 6 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Last seasons before the First World War

"although his two centuries were against the weaker bowling attacks of Northamptonshire and Somerset." – "weaker bowling attack"?? (Just kidding about).

If only I'd known you were doing the review.... :) --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:03, 7 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Later career

"..in a Scarborough Festival match where he captained the Players against the Gentlemen." – Not sure that 'where' is the right word to use.

Done. --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:03, 7 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"..he made a final appearance for Yorkshire against the MCC in a Scarborough festival match." – On other uses of Scarborough Festival, you capitalise both words.

Done. --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:03, 7 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewed to end of Coaching career, work now, but not too much more to get through! Harrias ^talk 08:02, 7 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Style and technique and Personal life are both fine. I'm going to have another scan through, but before I do, will provide you with this:

George Hirst had a long innings in big cricket. He also did the same as Rhodes, fourteen doubles of 1,000 runs and 100 wickets. Still, he went one better sometimes and made 2,000 runs and took 200 wickets in the season. There has never been a better midd-off and never will be. His swerving bowling with a new ball often paved the way to victory. His bowling averages in Australia were not good, as the ball will not swerve over there. I suppose the air is too rarified "down under."

Woods, S.M.J. (1925). My Reminscences. London: Chapman and Hall Ltd. p. 166.

Right, a few spelling mistakes corrected: I'm tempted to fail this article due to the cruel comments it makes about Somerset's talented bowling attack: Farmer Jack won't be happy! No, in all seriousness, another great piece of work, give me a ping when you take it to FA, and I'll have another look through it, although what I'll find then that I haven't now, who knows! Harrias ^talk 21:26, 7 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Much obliged, and sorry for any offence! :) --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:42, 7 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Record breaking season section & other observations[edit]

I suppose Record breaking season means 1906 yet it's 2nd paragraph deals with 1907-8. Perhaps that could be headed 1907-1908.

I put in links to the seasons (3) but Sarastro1 reverted them (& 3 others that I have restored). I think the season wikilinks provide context & links within them to the stats. They could be easily applied to the other seasons in other paragraphs. Any consensus on this? DadaNeem (talk) 00:29, 30 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I've no problem with the links, but I think we must then link ALL the seasons. My preference is to link none, but I'm not strongly attached to either way. If you want to do so, go for it (I haven't the patience for it!) but for consistency we can't have just one section. I've renamed the section; it's better not to lead with a number in a title section which it says somewhere in the MoS. Sarastro1 (talk) 17:24, 30 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]