Talk:Ghost Trick: Phantom Detective/GA1
GA Review[edit]
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Reviewer: The Night Watch (talk · contribs) 19:41, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
I'll take this one on. If you don't hear back from my by Saturday, please ping me. The Night Watch (talk) 19:41, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
Additional comments from MilkyDefer[edit]
Great, I am always waiting for someone else to pick this up, so that I will not be the main reviewer.
- To start with, I noticed a sourcing problem for some time. The article claims that the creators referenced Wordsworth's Book of Words during creating the game. If my memory served right, that's only the interviewer's speculation, not fact.
- Also I would like to mention that the current prose of the review section is perhaps pretty bad. It's just piling up quotations.
I, the GA contributor for this article in zhwiki, is always at your service. MilkyDefer 13:44, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you MilkyDefer! If you have any further comments, don't be afraid to list them here. The Night Watch (talk) 20:16, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
I do have some questions concerning the Metacritic user score and sale figures on Steam. Are they (or could they) ever be reliable? MilkyDefer 05:07, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
- No, the Metacritic user scores are unreliable. The Steam sale scores are noted by a source I do not recognize and Steam Spy, which the WP:VG/S notes to be an unreliable and should never be used to directly to support sales numbers. The Night Watch (talk) 20:27, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
First Look[edit]
- The first paragraph of gameplay is entirely uncited, you need to review the paragraphs and place citations for all gameplay mechanics.
- The plot section is too long. At 717 words of prose, WP:VG/PLOT encourages us to leave it at 700 words or fewer.
- The development and reception sections heavily use quotations that could easily be paraphrased; there is specific guidance against using too many quotes when the material could be rewritten and paraphrased.
- There is some trouble with wikilinking, which I will review later. Overall, do not link to subjects that you think that an average reader will be familiar with (e.g. corpse, submarine, spirit, surprise party etc.) I also see a few WP:DUPLINKS. Generally, a link should appear only twice in an article: once in the lead, and once in the article body itself.
- In regards to sales, MOS:VG encourages us to limit this information to the debut sales figures and the cumulative/most recent figures.
This is what I have right now, will take a deeper look later today. The Night Watch (talk) 20:16, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
- First Look point #4: I've removed a good number of the common subject wikilinks. QuietCicada (talk) 04:51, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
- I personally think just a little 17 words above the threshold is not so much a thing. This game is known for its story, having many loose ends yet still very closely related. I sincerely cannot imagine a concise plot summary without leaving main story points behind. MilkyDefer 05:13, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
- You could easily remove some details to keep the plot smaller and easier to read. For example, you could remove the sentence about "Sissel uses his powers to free Jowd from prison, though Cabanela soon recaptures him." as it has little significance, and just skip to the part where Sissel proves that the mayor's daughter is safe at home and Jowd is saved from execution. Also who tells Sissel and Lynne about the manipulator? Jowd or the Minister? And does Sissel undo Missle's death or Cabanela's? The whole plot section needs a good copyedit and word count reduction because I find it to be somewhat confusing without a re-read. The Night Watch (talk) 01:09, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
- Ok I see that you have not played the game. I understand that it may need copyediting. Sissel uses his power to undo Jowd's execution, and helps Jowd jailbreak, Cabanela recaptures Jowd, gives him a GPS receiver, and takes him to the Minister. The aforementioned GPS receiver is used to track down Yomiel into the submarine. It is the Minister that was manipulated and signed the execution order, so it is the Minister that tells about the manipulator (Yomiel). Missle is killed when Kamila is kidnapped, his death is never undone because he wants to stay in its spirit form. Sissel undos Cabanela's death. Like I said nearly every bit of the story is interwined, someone may want to consult editors who have played the game if he wants to copyedit. MilkyDefer 03:38, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
- @Hoopderscotch, have you been seeing these comments? You were the original GA nominator so I'd be interested in seeing your personal input. Thanks, The Night Watch (talk) 19:33, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
- I think the plot will always be difficult to explain succinctly, no matter how you approach it. But I'm sure a few words can be omitted here and there to shorten it. — hoopder® 13:52, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
- @Hoopderscotch, have you been seeing these comments? You were the original GA nominator so I'd be interested in seeing your personal input. Thanks, The Night Watch (talk) 19:33, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
- Ok I see that you have not played the game. I understand that it may need copyediting. Sissel uses his power to undo Jowd's execution, and helps Jowd jailbreak, Cabanela recaptures Jowd, gives him a GPS receiver, and takes him to the Minister. The aforementioned GPS receiver is used to track down Yomiel into the submarine. It is the Minister that was manipulated and signed the execution order, so it is the Minister that tells about the manipulator (Yomiel). Missle is killed when Kamila is kidnapped, his death is never undone because he wants to stay in its spirit form. Sissel undos Cabanela's death. Like I said nearly every bit of the story is interwined, someone may want to consult editors who have played the game if he wants to copyedit. MilkyDefer 03:38, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
- You could easily remove some details to keep the plot smaller and easier to read. For example, you could remove the sentence about "Sissel uses his powers to free Jowd from prison, though Cabanela soon recaptures him." as it has little significance, and just skip to the part where Sissel proves that the mayor's daughter is safe at home and Jowd is saved from execution. Also who tells Sissel and Lynne about the manipulator? Jowd or the Minister? And does Sissel undo Missle's death or Cabanela's? The whole plot section needs a good copyedit and word count reduction because I find it to be somewhat confusing without a re-read. The Night Watch (talk) 01:09, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
- I personally think just a little 17 words above the threshold is not so much a thing. This game is known for its story, having many loose ends yet still very closely related. I sincerely cannot imagine a concise plot summary without leaving main story points behind. MilkyDefer 05:13, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but I think this article is not ready for GA yet.
- I found two instances of failed verification while checking the first few sources of the Gameplay section. The Eurogamer source does not mention moving a tray of doughnuts will give Sissel access to new areas. Since this is not an example explicitly stated in the source, it is therefore original research. I also could not find any information about Missile in the cited Kotaku source. Seeing what MilkyDefer wrote above about verification issues, I think that there might be a larger problem about what the sources are saying.
- As mentioned by MilkyDefer earlier, the Reception section is a WP:QUOTEFARM which will take some time to fix. I found a huge number of scare quotes which need to be paraphrased or removed entirely. The Development section has a similar problem with quotes, and although some great work has been done on paraphrasing it, the problem persists in Reception. All in all I think that might be too much work for a GA review.
- I'm concerned that the three animated GIFs do not meet the WP:NFCC, as they are of decent resolution and there are several of them (including two in the Gameplay section alone). I think that these points area against the criteria #3a and #3b of the NFCC, and should be removed and/or reduced in resolution
Looking at all the problems above, I think the article may need some work outside of a GA review before it can be listed. I suggest looking at a few other video game GAs and taking notes on their styles towards imaging, Reception etc before nominating again. The Night Watch (talk) 20:27, 11 August 2023 (UTC)