Talk:Highland temperate climate
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Proposed deletion[edit]
I've removed the prod from this article. The term "highland temperate climate" clearly exists in the literature. This for instance contains " the cool temperatures enable farmers to grow highland temperate-climate vegetables", and this has "In general, the TMVB has a subtropical highland temperate climate with dry winters and warm summers (Cwb)". Nor is it true that the designation Cfbi does not exist. This has "Oahu shows Afi, Asi, and Cfbi climates".
However, there does not seem to be much evidence for the claim in the article that this term is for tropical latitudes only. This has "...while the other studies deal with the Australian Capital Territory (highland temperate climate)..." and this has "Most of the Czech Republic is classified as the Cfbi climatic type". SpinningSpark 11:38, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
- @Spinningspark If these terms all exist in some of the literature, then I do think they, along with the name of this article - Highland temperate climate, first need to be mentioned in the temperate climate and Köppen climate classification articles with sources (or any other climate article relevant to them) like the ones you've provided above before this article can be improved. I say this because unless these terms are mentioned in those two articles while backed up with reliable sources, then articles like this one seem somewhat pointless and probably better off deleted, converted to redirects or maybe mentioned as sub-sections in the two articles I mentioned above rather than have their own separate articles with no mention from those two articles. In any case, its not just this article which got a propose delete tag, the tag was also added to the Monsoon continental climate, Humid temperate climate and Subhumid temperate climate (the first two and this one were tagged by Ssbbplayer - I'm interested to hear Ssbbplayer's views on this matter, while the last one was tagged by me) and these were all climate articles created by Tetrarca85 who also mentioned those terms in those above two articles before most of those changes got reverted by Ssbbplayer (I also reverted a few of them) as they seemed to border on original research. Broman178 (talk) 09:37, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
- I don't agree that they need to be mentioned elsewhere on Wikipedia before an article can be justified. That's not how it works for anything else – having sufficient material in reliable sources is enough. You would never get it through an AFD if that was the only rationale put forward because it is not policy based. I'm not against a merge in principle, but I've not seen any source that explicitly states any of these are within the Köppen classification. Possibly they are not and thus would not belong in that article, but as they clearly are used, they are at least somebodies extension of Köppen. I looked briefly at Monsoon continental climate but did not find enough evidence to convince me to deprod (the phrase occurs, but might be simply generic). I have not looked at Subhumid temperate climate at all. That was deprodded by another editor, user:Kvng. SpinningSpark 13:48, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
- I suppose you are correct in saying that they don't need to be mentioned elsewhere for them to be justified, I think I based my edits and views on the Köppen classification a bit too much. But at the same time, I think as its likely these articles will be kept (all the propose delete tags have now been removed), the bits mentioning the Köppen classification have to be reworded or possibly removed like you've said because it doesn't really use the names for these articles. Broman178 (talk) 09:19, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
- It seems from the Trewartha climate classification article that Cfbi is a valid classification under that scheme. It's not given as one of the examples, but those suffixes are valid letters to add to Cf from the Universal Thermal Scale listed in the article. This is possibly the intended scheme in the references using it, but this is definitely not area of expertise, so I can't be sure that is what is going on.
Having said that, the temperature range claimed in our article does not fit with the temperatures given on the UTS for those letters. And why is group C used when the classification explicitly has group H for highland climates? SpinningSpark 15:19, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
- It seems from the Trewartha climate classification article that Cfbi is a valid classification under that scheme. It's not given as one of the examples, but those suffixes are valid letters to add to Cf from the Universal Thermal Scale listed in the article. This is possibly the intended scheme in the references using it, but this is definitely not area of expertise, so I can't be sure that is what is going on.
- I suppose you are correct in saying that they don't need to be mentioned elsewhere for them to be justified, I think I based my edits and views on the Köppen classification a bit too much. But at the same time, I think as its likely these articles will be kept (all the propose delete tags have now been removed), the bits mentioning the Köppen classification have to be reworded or possibly removed like you've said because it doesn't really use the names for these articles. Broman178 (talk) 09:19, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
- I don't agree that they need to be mentioned elsewhere on Wikipedia before an article can be justified. That's not how it works for anything else – having sufficient material in reliable sources is enough. You would never get it through an AFD if that was the only rationale put forward because it is not policy based. I'm not against a merge in principle, but I've not seen any source that explicitly states any of these are within the Köppen classification. Possibly they are not and thus would not belong in that article, but as they clearly are used, they are at least somebodies extension of Köppen. I looked briefly at Monsoon continental climate but did not find enough evidence to convince me to deprod (the phrase occurs, but might be simply generic). I have not looked at Subhumid temperate climate at all. That was deprodded by another editor, user:Kvng. SpinningSpark 13:48, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
If we're using Koppen's classification scheme, then this is already covered under the subtropical highland climate category. These climates are essentially oceanic climates at altitude, sometimes with a drying trend during the low-sun season. It's "subtropical" because its temperatures are below tropical parameters and "highland" because they’re found at higher altitudes. In short, it’s the altitude that causes the climate to have this type of oceanic climate.G. Capo (talk) 21:32, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
- But the classification in this article is clearly not Köppen, at least not the vanilla version of it. This is problematic, not because it isn't according to Köppen, but because User:Tetrarca85 has failed to say where they did get this from. SpinningSpark 12:29, 12 August 2022 (UTC)