Talk:History of Aston Villa F.C. (1961–present)/GA review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Review

Hey, I was asked to have a look at this with WP:GA in mind. So I did. And here are my comments...

Lead

• "...covers the turmoil..." - POV. Done
• "...relegation to the third division." - "Third Division" and wikilink. Done
• ...and subsequent "second division". Done
• " record 70 points." - club or division record? Done
• "his softly-spoken" - WP:OR. Done
• "football League" - Football League. Done
• "This marked a pinnacle though and Villa declined for most of the 1980s culminating in relegation in 1987. This was followed by promotion the following year and second place in the football League in 1989." Hmm, second in the league in 1989 isn't bad at all. The "declined for most of the 1980s" could be reworded I think... Done
• A lot of use of "Villa did this, Villa did that" where you could occasionally say "the club" or "they". Done
• Wikilink to 2000 FA Cup final in the lead and remove parentheses around (since 1957). Done
• "... things came to a head ..." yuck. Done
• "jubilant scenes" cite or it's WP:OR. Done
• "single biggest shareholder (approximately 38%)," - reword, something along the lines of "single biggest shareholder owning approximately 38% of the club" or similar. Done
• "finally decided to sell his stake in Aston Villa" - why is Aston Villa wikilinked here?! Done
• "new period of optimism" - is this WP:OR again? Done

Instability

• "Once again, a Cup win was to act as something of a pinnacle." very odd start to this section. Needs context. DoneCompletely reworded.
• "This was primarily down to the fact that the club had an ageing five-man board who had failed to adapt to the new football reality." - really? Nothing to do with the results on the field? I know where you're coming from but you need to explain the connection between the board, their lack of grasp on reality and its affect on the playing side of the club. Doneadded in some context.

Rebuilding

• "second division as Champions with a then record 70 points." - comments above apply here (Second Division, which record?) Done
• "...there was a revolt in the Boardroom and Doug Ellis was ousted." borderline WP:OR - needs citation. Donereworded, expanded and referenced.
• Take care when wikilinking - Doug Ellis is wikilinked on his second mention, should be on his first and then no more in the same section. Done
• 1977 League Cup Final has an article so link it, worthwhile checking all other finals as well, a large number of articles exist which it would be worthwhile linking to. Done

First Division football

• Odd title for the section since a lot of the history before this was spent in the First Division, wasn't it? DoneSmiles, reworded.
• "Aston Villa's centenary season saw Villa ..." - "...saw them..."? And reiterate the season - it's a new section and needs context again. DoneIt actually wasn't the centenary season!
• Spanish "giants" is POV. Doneremoved
• "Domestically though, they struggled, and manager Saunders started rebuilding the team. Doug Ellis was ousted from the Board in 1979.[16] From 1978 through to 1980 Saunders..." reads mixed up. The Ellis sentence is crowbarred in between the two sentences about the team, it needs rephrasing. DoneTook abit of brain power, but I think I have cracked it.
• " who were to become some of Villa's most successful players." according to whom? Doneremoved
• "What made this victory remarkable ..." sounds like a fan's perspective. It's certainly notable, not necessarily remarkable. Donereworded
• "Most fans though were concentrating on Villa's exploits in the European Cup. " proof? Donenope, so removed.
• "...softly-spoken ..." again... Doneremoved
• Wikilink the European clubs mentioned. Done

European Champions and subsequent decline

• Image:Mortimer.jpg needs fair use rationale for all articles it's used it (not just this one, so it needs one for the main AVFC article, the records article and so on...). Doneremoved from articles.
• Date of final is repeated in consecutive paragraphs. Done
• "key players", "world class", "highly experienced" - all a bit POV, need some citation (unless it's all in that single book ref...) DoneNope, so removed.
• "The jubilation that followed the win was short lived..." cite. Doneremoved
• AGM - wikilink or expand. Doneboth
• "building costs. " - first mention - was the ground being expanded? If so it's worth a mention. DoneNorth Stand being built
• " set about bringing good fortunes back to the club" - little bit too journalistic for my taste. DoneWhat's wrong with journalists?(removed it)

Return to First Division

• Title needs work again. The club has returned to the First Division a couple of times! DoneLol
• Why is £ suddenly wikilinked here? It's been used before a couple of times. Doneremoved
• Link Millwall, Man Utd and Crewe. Done
• 3 weeks - three weeks. Done
• "Villa were to be one.." why not just "Villa became..."? Done

Villa in the Premiership

• "spent heavily" - prove it. Doneremoved
• You could link to the actual article for the inaugural season of the premier league. Done
• "instant hit with the Villa Park faithful" - bit WP:OR unless it's a quote from the book? Doneremoved
• 1996 league cup final has an article. DoneSo it has
• "speculation was rife" proof? Donecited
• "the Old Wembley Stadium" - not sure "Old" - just "old". Done
• Link Intertoto cup. Done

Randy Lerner

• Odd title for section, it's not about him, it's about his era I guess. Donechanged to Lerner era
• Use proper dates per WP:DATE. Not doneCouldn't see any issues.
• Again, £ is wikilinked here, why? Doneremoved
• "On February 7, 2007 Aston Villa announced that their kit sponsor for the 2007–08 Barclays Premiership season would be Nike.[45] Before the start of the season, several new players were purchased, including Ashley Young and Stiliyan Petrov. Villa started the 2006–07 Premiership campaign well, with Olof Mellberg scoring the first competitive goal at Arsenal's new Emirates Stadium. " is it me or is this out of order? DoneJust a bit, completely rejigged.
• Last para has no citation. Done

General

• There are many claims which aren't necessarily cited. I don't have the books you've used but I'd suggest ensuring that all claims are cited sufficiently.
• The AVFC template needs to be modified so it doesn't redirect to this article, just links directly. Done

Hope that all helps. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:44, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Further comments

Hello, here are some more comments following the work conducted after my review above.

• "fluctuating fortunes" repeated in consecutive sentences. Done
• "fan pressure" used twice in three sentences. DoneChanged to "pressure from supporters"
• Be consistent with capitalising divisions - Third Division, not third division. Check throughout. DoneI love firefox
• "quarter final" needs a hyphen. Check throughout. DoneI love firefox
• 5->five. Done
• Why have a statement in parentheses in the lead? Use it in the normal prose. DoneOld problem that I missed
• Wikilink Man Utd in the lead. Done
• Wikilink the 2000 FA Cup final in the lead.Old one

Actually, as I go through this, I've noticed that quite a few of my comments above haven't been dealt with. Can you do me a favour and check them all off using the  Done and  Doing... and  Not done templates? That way I know where we stand before looking for new issues? Cheers! The Rambling Man (talk) 18:19, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Done, sorry about that. I seemed to have missed off most of the Lead ones. Woody (talk) 20:15, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Bit more

• Lead says " to the European Cup winning team of 1982." - should be "to the present day" so I guess you need "and the European Cup..." there instead. DoneI think to your tastes
• "FA Cup final in 2000" link FA Cup on its own and link 2000 to the relevant final. Done
• In the Instability opener, do the same, link League Cup on its own and link the year to the relevant final. Done
• " finish sixteenth once again, before a 4–2 final day defeat by Everton saw them relegated to the Second Division in the 1966–67 season" - a mixed bag - reading it once makes you think the final day defeat was the season before... perhaps subtle reword? Done
• "to remain in the Second Division" - I'd opt for something more positive like "to retain their place in the Second Division" but that's personal. Done
• Not mentioned this before (apologies) but " £200,000, £140,000 " looks a little odd. Perhaps consider, as above, a subtle reword? Done
• "Nevertheless, the following season Villa reached the League Cup final after beating Manchester United in the semi-final. They were defeated in the final by Tottenham 2–0.[15] In the 1970–71 season Villa finished fourth ..." - wasn't the league cup loss in the 1970-71 season as well? DoneYes it was, he says embarassed. Now reworded.
• Link Antwerp (the club, not the city!) DoneRoyal Antwerp FC if you were interested.
• " Domestic league " - why capital D? DoneBecause I Felt Like It.
• "Atkinson purchased..." - provide context, so start with something like "during the summer of..." or whenever. DoneIn his first 18 months in charge
• "...a terraced Villa Park. In the summer, Villa Park ..." - second Villa Park could be "...the stadium..." or similar. Done
• "(for the first time since 1957)," - get rid of those parentheses! Done
• "£6 million" vs "£13million" - space consistency required. Donewith nbsp for half price

Almost there. Much much better than the first time I reviewed the article. Well done. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:15, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Think that covers all of them, thanks again. Woody (talk) 00:25, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Top work. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:35, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.