Talk:Indianapolis FedEx shooting

Name change?

I think this article might need a name change as the news develops. It might be worth noting FedEx and/or the airport in the title rather than just the city if there is more association with the former. Sewageboy (talk) 07:30, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

The shooting didn't occur at the airport, though. I am open to a title modeled after San Francisco UPS shooting, though. Love of Corey (talk) 07:32, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

My bad on the airport part; disregard that part of the idea. Sewageboy (talk) 07:34, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

Okay. Love of Corey (talk) 07:41, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

I also consider 2021 Indianapolis Fedex shooting (or Indianapolis Fedex shooting) a better page name. – Athaenara ✉ 09:07, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be easier to have all mass shootings for a given year start with the year, i.e. "2021 <location> + <business or notable organisation involved> shooting"? That way people could just search for 2021 shootings wikipedia and immediately get a list? Oathed (talk) 16:56, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

This comment just makes me immeasurably sad. But yes, I agree. 152.132.8.134 (talk) 18:01, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

In many cases, the year isn't needed in the article. There are already articles such as list of mass shootings in the United States in 2021 & cats such as Category:2021 mass shootings for the purpose you state. Jim Michael (talk) 18:08, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the article move! The original title was written out of drowsiness, so I apologize for that flub. Love of Corey (talk) 19:41, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

Mention of Sikh victims

Should the mention of the victims religion be included? This, in my own opinion, will spark unnecessary motive discussion. While working on the 2021 Boulder shooting, there was someone who added the race of the victims. It was reverted as the shooting was preliminary and no motive was established.

I feel as this shooting is very preliminary, the inclusion of the religion of some of the victims is unneeded. Kellis7 21:05, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

I believe that currently we don’t have evidence that the victims religion is relevant and that we should wait to see if their religion was a factor before we add it.--67.70.101.238 (talk) 03:23, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Half of the fatalities were members of the Sikh community. 108.53.222.173 (talk) 04:12, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Are Sikhs greatly over-represented among employees at the facility? Is there any evidence that anyone was targeted because of their religion &/or ethnicity? Jim Michael (talk) 06:07, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Jim Michael, Yes, 90% of the workers of the factory were of Indian origin, and a lot of them were Sikhs. However, according to a statement, there is no evidence that they were targeted because of their religion - Sitaphul (talk) 06:24, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

On the same topic, which would be the most appropriate place to add these facts. Sitaphul (talk) 06:26, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Motivation aside, the fact that half of the victims were Sikh bears at least a brief mention. Many news sources agree:

• "Sikh community responds to mass shooting at Indianapolis FedEx Ground facility". The Indianapolis Star. April 16, 2021.
• "Four members of Sikh community among dead in Indianapolis FedEx shooting -group". Reuters. April 16, 2021.
• Sharma, Kadambini; Som, Vishnu (April 17, 2021). "4 Sikhs Among 8 Killed In FedEx Shooting In US, Shocked India Offers Help". NDTV.com.
• "Sikh community in shock after four members die in Indianapolis shooting". Hindustan Times. April 17, 2021.
• Rajghatta, Chidanand (April 17, 2021). "Four Sikhs among those killed in Indianapolis FedEx carnage". The Times of India.

gobonobo ^{+ c} 07:13, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Sikhs make up 90% of that workforce, but only 50% of those killed, Seems that they were underrepresented. WWGB (talk) 07:18, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Regardless of representation, this is a blow to the Sikh community and is being reported as such. gobonobo ^{+ c} 07:20, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

That said, if you've concerns that mentioning the Sikh victims somehow insinuates a motivation, I'd support language mentioning the composition of the workforce, if clarity can be so served. gobonobo ^{+ c} 07:45, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

"committed suicide" to "died by suicide"

Change “committed suicide” to “died by suicide” 69.4.133.126 (talk) 19:54, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

The request doesn’t improve the article. Ferkjl (talk) 21:04, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

 Done. It is generally accepted that "committed suicide" is an inappropriate expression. WWGB (talk) 11:03, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

Not really. It is all part of the "no shaming" philosophy of mental health professionals. To the layman, it is perfectly acceptable. It's important to get the reasoning correct in explaining why the leftish leanings here on Wiki are going along with it.50.111.63.192 (talk) 15:15, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

@WWGB: I'm not exactly arguing that it should be changed back, but I would like to note for the record that we had a fairly well attended RfC in January 2021 in which most editors expressed the opposite view. Mz7 (talk) 07:10, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

"Died by suicide" was changed back to "committed suicide" and did not need to be reverted. 73.167.238.120 (talk) 04:07, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

MLP mention

An investigation of archived content from Hole's deleted Facebook accounts revealed no potential motives, as posts on the account were largely related to Hole's love of the cartoon My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic and specifically the character Applejack. - how the fragment in bold is relevant to the former part of sentence - his motives? --Kuracyja (talk) 22:22, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

The article discusses how investigators think it might prove a link to potential alt-right groups but ultimately the investigation is still ongoing and the link is not proven. However, it's currently some of the only information known on motive. Deku link (talk) 23:29, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

It kind of suggests that there may be more fans like him that are murderers and/or sickos and/or psychos. I was a Brony (fan of MLP) myself for 6 years, I can confirm there are fans from all sides of political compass (yes even the alt- groups), but suggesting that writing I hope that I can be with Applejack in the afterlife, my life has no meaning without her could be a motive to kill people is a bit of ridiculous - there are hundreds of Bronies writing such words everyday about their favourite ponies, including Applejack, perparator's favourite. Does this mean they will draw a gun and repeat his deed? I don't think so. (I know, WP:NOR.) --Kuracyja (talk) 23:58, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

I don't either, but it is reported as part of the investigation into the motive. Deku link (talk) 01:19, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

If, as part of their investigation in to his motive, they found My Little Pony stuff on his Facebook but didn't think it was relevant to his motive, why is that noteworthy? Investigators found it but thought it was irrelevant, so it's probably not relevant to mention here either, unless reliable sources start to draw a lot of attention to it for some reason or another. ‑‑Volteer1 (talk) 09:45, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

I didn’t re-add it to the article, but more reliable sources are bringing it up so it looks like someone else beat me for the punch. It’s a relevant aspect because it was the last thing he posted before the shooting. Deku link (talk) 18:19, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

To add to article

To add to this article: a "See also" to Indianapolis mass murder. 173.88.246.138 (talk) 08:23, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

Still to add to this article: a "See also" to Indianapolis mass murder. 173.88.246.138 (talk) 07:36, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

type of rifle

The article states that the shooter used an "Assault rifle", which is not accurate or true. The shooter used a self-loading rifle, more accurately, a semi-automatic rifle. Assault rifles have select fire capabilities, which semi-automatic rifles do not. This is not a news media article, therefore it should not use the incorrect terms to sensationalize the piece. HertzogGrobler (talk) 08:27, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

The cited article says “assault rifle” multiple times. Do you have another source that says self-loading? Deku link (talk) 08:37, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

I think it's right to be suspicious of less reliable media sources usage of the phrase "assault rifle" because of how often it is misused, but here's e.g. a better source: [1]. I don't know where the user above got "self-loading rifle" from as it doesn't seem to appear anywhere. ‑‑Volteer1 (talk) 08:51, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

any RS mention if FedEx had security at the facility?

The depots here all have armed security guards. I've not read any article that mentioned security at the Indy site where the shooting took place. 50.111.63.192 (talk) 15:25, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

It seems they did have an armed security guard, but FedEx is being secretive about the details for security for this place. The NYT did go into a bit of detail about it: [2]

FedEx declined to discuss its safety procedures in detail, but facilities like the one where the shooting occurred typically have tight security to protect the people, machinery and packages, according to industry officials. Large sorting centers are often located away from city centers and down remote access roads. The premises are usually surrounded by fencing. And visitors and employees alike are required to present identification and submit to being scanned with metal detectors. “I just can’t imagine they can do anything more with security than what they have,” said Satish Jindel, a logistics consultant who worked at the start-up that became FedEx Ground and has advised FedEx, UPS and others. But that screening typically happens at the entrance of buildings. Visitors and employees typically do not have to drive through security gates before they can park their cars. Local officials said the gunman at the FedEx facility started shooting after getting out of his car in the parking lot. A FedEx employee who worked unloading boxes at a large logistics hub near Columbus, Ohio until late March and spoke on the condition his name not be used because he is not authorized to speak publicly said that security at the Columbus facility was fairly rigorous. He said that each one of the several hundred people working on a shift would have to pass through a metal detector on their way inside, and that employees typically tried to arrive 10 or 15 minutes early so that they would not be late as a result of this process. He said there was a security guard who walked through the facility during his shift as well as security cameras. But the employee said that bags were inspected manually, not using a machine, and that it’s possible that someone could hide a firearm in the bottom of a lunchbox, particularly if they were well known to security and did not otherwise arouse suspicion.

Not sure how much of this would be relevant to the article. ‑‑Volteer1 (talk) 16:05, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

include the names of the deceased

Please include the names of the deceased so they can be recognized as human beings and not just numbers. Thank you! 73.167.238.120 (talk) 14:42, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

• Not done WP:NONAME and WP:NOTMEMORIAL strongly recommend against this. Further, these people and their bereaved families have a right to privacy and there is nothing encyclopedic to be gained by listing their names. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 00:27, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Interesting, since the exact opposite was mentioned on other mass shooting articles. If there is a rule, make it consistent. 73.167.238.120 (talk) 03:43, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Mind giving us any examples of what you're talking about? Love of Corey (talk) 07:55, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

There was a discussion on the 2021 Boulder shooting Talk page that appears to have been removed, but the result was more people wanted to include the victims in the article than to not include the victms in the article. Other examples are the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting, the Columbine High School massacre, and the Gilroy Garlic Festival shooting. A discussion could be opened up, as was done for the 2021 Boulder shooting, and editors could include or oppose the decision to include the names of victims for the Indianapolis FedEx shooting article. Thanks! 73.167.238.120 (talk) 14:24, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

Not removed, it was archived over here. Personally I feel uncomfortable including the names, both because of the privacy concerns of non-public figures and because I don't want to create a tally or a scorecard (so to speak) for mass shooters, and the names don't really provide much in the way of understanding for the article. I think I'm generally in the minority on this though, so if a discussion is started about it the names will probably end up being included I guess. ‑‑Volteer1 (talk) 14:36, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

@ Volteer1 Thanks for letting me know the discussion on the 2021 Boulder shooting Talk page was archived instead of removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.167.238.120 (talk • contribs)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 April 2021

This page states "assault rifles" were used. "Assault rifle" is not a valid term for a firearm. It should be changed to "semi-automatic rifle" with that phrase hyperlinked to a page describing semi-automatic rifles. 2600:1008:B0DF:E1BC:68E7:3AEC:DEF8:48CC (talk) 21:59, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: Assault rifle would like to disagree with you. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 00:26, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Comment - According to Assault rifle, "Semi-automatic-only rifles like the Colt AR-15 are not assault rifles; they do not have select-fire capabilities." The rifles purchased by the shooter were in the same class as an AR-15. My understanding is that a gun that is capable of automatic fire (as in a machine gun) could not be sold in the U.S. without the purchaser first obtaining a special license from the Federal government, which the shooter would not have been able to get. Indyguy (talk) 01:19, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Toxic masculinity as motive?

There are reports from the FBI showing that toxic masculinity could have been the motive for the shooting. An ABC News article documents it.

I'm wondering if it is of note to put it as the motive for the shooting, or at least document it in the article. 2601:800:8200:3910:41A4:30F3:5FCB:9C47 (talk) 18:36, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

That article doesn't use the phrase "toxic masculinity", so I don't think we can say that. We could plausibly just quote the FBI though: The shooter decided to commit suicide in a way which he believed would demonstrate his masculinity and capability of fulfilling a final desire to experience killing people. ‑‑Volteer1 (talk) 09:56, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

What does “toxic masculinity“ mean? Monkeylady999 (talk) 06:02, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

See Toxic masculinity. WWGB (talk) 06:21, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

May we please add unknown as motive? Monkeylady999 (talk) 07:28, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

No, we publish what is known, not what is unknown. WWGB (talk) 07:44, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

Far right extremist ties to the MLP Fandom

It seems as though this claim is poorly substantiated. The second source, Medium, being a blogsite has no editorial process and therefore should not be trusted as a reputable source by journalistic standards. In order for a fandom to have "well documented ties" to extremism, it would seem clear that only one truly journalistic source does not count as being well documented. Since it is reasonable to assume innocence both in the individual and collective unless there is no reasonable doubt, this claim either needs farther substantiation or removal. --ZachT1234 (talk) 11:48, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Demonstrate His Masculinity

He wrote on Facebook "I hope I can be woth Applejack in the afterlife," so the FBI concluded he killed those people to "demonstrate his masculinity".

Huh? Are we going to supplement anything else to be the voice of reason or just leave the FBI statement with no criticism? You can't call an attempt to unite with a character on a little girl's TV show an act of masculinity, real or percieved. This man had no intention of portraying or expressing masculinity to himself or anyone with his act. This investigative conclusion is so impossibly unacceptable that I can't stomach just leaving that there. And if I am called offensive, ignorant and hateful for what I've written here then I won't care because I was expecting that. 2600:1012:B121:D95A:7093:9EA9:4D03:41F0 (talk) 17:12, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

Radicalized by F.B.I./IMPD

IMPD,FBI, and task force sent to home April 15th,2020 for Brandon saying he was gonna point a empty gun at police to die suicide by cop. When they arrived to "help" they proceeded to put him in handcuffs,sit him on the couch in his home, and call him vulgar names like pussy little bitch, ECT. They went from coming to help a suicidal 18 year old to calling him a "white supremacist" for having a song from the video game "Warhammer 40k" on a playlist on his computer. Also they will find a link to a brony chat because Brandon liked to refer to himself as a "troll" and liked to mess with people online with what he thought were "weird" quirks. When one of the detectives see this on his computer they tell Brandon this is how white supremacists communicate online. Brandon argued that you can be a brony or anything you want and not be a white supremacist. The label of white supremacist will get him fired from his first job at Amazon , and later be brought up at FedEx and them cutting his hours completely because he had an "ongoing FBI investigation" (the fact that his family called about him being suicidal).They brought him to EskaNAZI hospital in Indianapolis where they released him 1 hour later. The next day they asked him if he wanted the shotgun back they took from him the day before. For the next year Det. Matt Stephenson will come to his mom's house 5 times to "check" on Brandon. But really he was showing up to harass Brandon Hole. Telling him to address him by sir and not "dude", Making him come outside with no shoes on in the middle of winter, and all other sorts of things you do not do to a suicidal teen. On April 15th 2021 exactly a year after the task force showed up and Matt Stephenson came into his life, the fed ex shooting occurred. He will have never been red flagged, and the weapons he would use for the crime are bought with the stimulus money the government gave out that year. This will not be the only instance of the FBI radicalizing youth in the USA for whatever reason they are doing it for. They are above the law and can not be punished. Just trying to get the truth out there.99.163.248.104 (talk) 19:01, 20 July 2023 (UTC)