Talk:Jamal Musiala

Footballing Nationality

There has been some question about Musiala's footballing nationality, having recently declared permanently for Germany—his nation of birth—after being raised in England and representing both nations as a youth. I have seen hyphenated nationalities get frowned down on a number of occasions, and I tend to agree. There are, however, some examples of that remain—see John Brooks (soccer, born 1993)—but the vast majority of declared dual nationals are either listed as an unambiguous representative of their declared nation or simply as "a professional footballer/soccer player." I have discussed this with @GiantSnowman: before, and he tends to have a good grasp of the norms that govern this generally. I tend to prefer "...is a professional footballer/soccer player," but I also see the value of simply listing the player for their declared nation. I think hyphenation is itself largely ambiguous, assumptive, and can be misleading. Any ideas here? Anwegmann (talk) 17:27, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

He's a German footballer, as he's declared himself to play for Germany. The nationality in the lead is their sporting nationality (which is German), and is unaffected by which country's citizenships they have. It's that way for all footballers, and indeed all sportspeople. Joseph2302 (talk) 17:38, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

@Joseph2302: - not quite true. There is a well established convention that players born and raised in one country but who play for another, usually through parentage, simply state 'X is a footballer' rather than 'X is a Yish footballer'. However, in Musiala's case, he was born in Germany and declared for Germany. The fact he also played youth football for England is largely irrelevant. See also Louie Barry for similar case. GiantSnowman 18:37, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

I appreciate this very much, both of you. Based on what both of you say, I agree with the final decision here—namely, that Musiala should be listed as a German footballer. Anwegmann (talk) 18:45, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

I don't agree. Him having represented England at youth level is significant, as well as the fact that he is eligible for three national teams at senior level. First off: him saying, at age 17, that he wants to represent Germany is a bit premature (for example, Bassel Jradi made a similar claim regarding Denmark, only to go on and represent Lebanon). Secondly, even if he did then go on to represent Germany at senior level, I would still not put "German". Him being born in Germany is pretty irrelevant (Raheem Sterling was born in Jamaica, and Thiago Alcântara was born in Italy).

In my opinion, nationality should be omitted if the person has represented more than one NT (even at youth level). Nehme₁₄₉₉ 00:15, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

I think the critical thing here is that he has outright stated that he has chosen to play for Germany over England. He's left no real question about it. I'm not sure what you see as "premature" about his statement that he has chosen Germany. He made the statement, and it is not up to us to judge whether or not he will keep his word in some imagined future. His birth in Germany simply adds credence to that decision. Matt Miazga is a decent example of the same thing. Born in the United States, he first represented Poland as a youth before choosing to represent the United States. It's clear that he is an American soccer player because he outright chose to represent the United States and was clear about it. I agree that when the choice of the player is ambiguous and his playing history doesn't point to a single nation, then nationality should be omitted. But when a player has clearly stated what their footballing nationality is, it is only reasonable to trust the player. We're not debating what his political and cultural national identity is (which would be extremely complicated) or what his footballing nationality will be in the future. We are trying to determine what his footballing nationality is now. Jamal Musiala has told us, in no uncertain terms, that it is Germany. If he changes it in the future, we can change it too. But to assume that he is not trustworthy in his choice because of his age and because a handful of other players have changed later on is assumptive and more than a little misleading. Anwegmann (talk) 00:40, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

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Nickname "Bambi"

The article says "Nicknamed "Bambi" for his dribbling ability, he is considered to be one of the best young players in the world."

As far as I know the nickname has nothing to do with his dribbling ability. Musiala said in 2021 about the nickname: "Einige nennen mich seitdem Bambi, aus dem Film Bambi, vielleicht weil ich ein bisschen dünn und einer der Jüngeren bin". (https://www.sport1.de/news/fussball/em/2021/06/bambi-musiala-kann-mit-seinem-spitznamen-gut-leben) In English: Since then, some are calling me Bambi, from the movie Bambi, perhaps because I am quite thin and one of the younger players.

In 2024 he said: „Ich bin nicht mehr der junge Spieler, ich bin jetzt kein Bambi mehr. Ich habe mehr Verantwortung in beiden Mannschaften. Den Status des jungen Supertalents, auf das man aufpassen muss, habe ich abgelegt“ (https://www.sportbuzzer.de/fussball/bundesliga/bayern-star-jamal-musiala-ich-bin-kein-bambi-mehr-EAV4MY6SQFHJLFFL2T477ENQLU.html) In English: I am not the young player anymore, I am no Bambi anymore. I have more responsibility in both teams. I abandoned the status of a young super talent, others have to take care of.

That reflects very well that the nickname (which was, by the way, created by Leroy Sané) referred to his youth and his outer appearence. He was (especially in his first years as professional football player) very slender - and he had/has those big eyes. Klio96 (talk) 00:17, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 August 2024

Jamal musiala has won a champions league. Pls include it in his achievements 2607:FEA8:31E0:D700:74AD:6CD5:6755:9E65 (talk) 21:20, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. —Sirdog (talk) 22:31, 16 August 2024 (UTC)