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A fact from John of Brienne appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 3 July 2016 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
John's year of birth is probably 1170 of 1175[edit]
If John was born around 1148, then he would have been nearly 90 years old by the time of his death around 1237. It is noted that his grandfather, Walter II, Count of Brienne[1], had a son named Jean de Brienne who was the abbott of Beaulieu from 1156 to 1192 and may have been confused with John of Brienne, the King of Jerusalem, Especially on the presumed birth-year of 1148. King John of Brienne was probably born in 1170 or 1175, as he was one of the 5 children of Erard II, Count of Brienne[2]. Sundehul 18:38, 13 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
After now 5 requests for a source supporting this claim that J. de Brienne has been titled "duke of Philippopolis" (i.e., a source that indeed DOES support this claim, not a source that is vaguely related to the subject), User:Vagrand has again reverted to the unsourced version without 1)providing the needed source 2)answering the request on his talkpage. I ask a 6th time: is there a precise quotation from a reliable source supporting this claim?--Phso2 (talk) 18:09, 15 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
See bg article: "Under the accord signed on April 9, 1229 in Perugia between the Latin Empire and the former Jerusalem King Jean de Brienne, the latter takes possession of the Duchy of Philippopolis and became Duke of Philippopolis for the period 1229 to 1237." (notte 22 given in bg.wikipedia.org: Проект на договор между Латинската империя и ерусалимския крал Йоан от 9 април 1229 г., в: "Латински извори за българската история", том ІV, БАН, София, 1988 г., с.36) and Tresor de chronologie, d'histoire et de géographie pour l'étude et emploi des documents du moyen-age.--Vagrand (talk) 18:34, 16 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
At last...The first source is a compilation of primary sources with a few commentaries, and neither the primary source nor the commentary appear to support the information that Brienne became duke of Philippopolis; this seems merely to be the personnal interpretation of the original Bulgarian WP contributor, and this interpretation is contradicted by published sources. Moreover, the primary source is a draft treaty which was amended in its final form of april 1229 (the one published by Buchon) and which safegarded the rights of G. de Stroim on the duchy; so without another source about this matter one cannot conclude that Brienne and his heirs (which had carreers in the West and never returned to the East after childhood) were ever dukes of Philippopolis.--Phso2 (talk) 16:57, 17 June 2015 (UTC) PS: Mas-Latrie doesn't even mention Jean de Brienne...[reply]
Having looked over the primary sources, I tend to agree that Brienne was never duke of Philippopolis. The text of the treaty of Perugia is given on pp. 21–22 of Buchon's Éclaircissements in the notes; as best I can make it out, it seems that when he turned twenty, he would be invested with the Kingdom of Nicaea and the lands of the Empire "ultra Bracchium" (across the Hellespont, in Asia Minor), with the exception of the Duchy of Nicomedia. John's heirs might choose either the lands "ultra Bracchium" or in Europe (including the duchy of Philippopolis) and do homage to Baldwin and his heirs for them. But the treaty seems to recognize Gerard as duke and notes that it doesn't intend to infringe on existing rights-presumably the difference is that Gerard would now be doing homage for his duchy to John's heirs, rather than directly to the Latin Emperor. (Think of the way the Angevins spun off the suzerainty of Achaia from the Empire in the Treaty of Viterbo. At any rate, John's heirs don't appear to have made any claim to their (fairly worthless) rights after his death in 1237. Choess (talk) 21:30, 17 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
No copyvio detected, no dablinks. Once again, a fairly well-written masterpiece. Only a few comments: Sainsf(talk·contribs) 17:46, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
General
A lot of duplicate links. Try this tool to wipe out the unnecessary links.
Early life
are obviously invented I think "apparently" will make it sound more like a general opinion, as it is it seems as if we said it. Nothing mandatory, I felt I should share my view.
if his father sent John to a monastery he left before taking monastic vows I could not understand how you come to this conclusion
John's father, Erard II No need to introduce him again
His oldest son, Walter III Should not you say "Walter III" when you refer to him for the first time, in the 1st para?
Two versions of Ernoul's chronicle tell different stories about John's ascent to the throne of Jerusalem Are there only two versions, or are they two among many? If it is just two, we can say "The two versions of Ernoul's chronicles differ in their accounts of John's..." which I feel sounds better
King of Jerusalem
Wikilink "Holy See"
Papal service
Even if this account was fabricated Are you saying this account was really fabricated (You should be saying "even though"), or are you presenting a possibility?
Emperor of Constantinople
but Besse also described I think you should say Bernard and not Besse (he is "of Besse").
Historian Guy Perry wrote that John Simply "Perry" would do
Family
Check that this section does not repeat details from previous sections.
His youngest son John Comma before John
Sainsf, thank you for your thorough review. I tried to fix all above problems. Sorry, I cannot use the tool you suggested above (generally, I am unable to use most tools offered by WP). I assume that the Family section contains duplinks, but I think it is actually a separate part of the article, so the duplications helps users to identify his family members. Borsoka (talk) 03:55, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. Most of those duplinks can then be retained. I am happy we can promote this now. Cheers, Sainsf(talk·contribs) 08:46, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
