This is an archive of past discussions about K2. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
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and is located on the border[2] between the Taxkorgan Tajik Autonomous County of Xinjiang, China, and Gilgit, in Gilgit-Baltistan of Pakistan.
and is located on the border[2] between the Taxkorgan Tajik Autonomous County of Xinjiang, China, and Shigar, in Gilgit-Baltistan of Pakistan.
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the location of k2 is not written correctly. it has no proximity with gilgit.
and is located on the border[2] between the Taxkorgan Tajik Autonomous County of Xinjiang, China, and Gilgit, in Gilgit-Baltistan of Pakistan
and is located on the border[2] between the Taxkorgan Tajik Autonomous County of Xinjiang, China, and Shigar, in Gilgit-Baltistan of Pakistan
reference
http://iguide.travel/Skardu_District#/Map
Missing from the current K2 article is the all-important 1861 Expedition, led by Haversham Godwin-Austen and his sixty-six 'coolies', which actually fixed the precise location and height of K2.
On his return from a (just) unsuccessful attempt on the Mustagh Pass, Godwin-Austen travelled almost the whole length of the Baltoro Glacier to near Concordia, the first Westerner so to do. On August 11, 1861, he ascended a spur of Masherbrum probably for approx 1000m above the Baltoro. From there ('from where we could ascend no higher') he fixed the mountain's position 'on the watershed of Asia' and its height, this figure differing by an insignificant amount from contemporary satellite measurements. He noted 'fifteen' strands of colour along the Baltoro. He then painted the scene, with his assistants assembling and carrying his equipment in the foreground. (This painting, possibly the historically most important mountaineering picture of the nineteenth century, is still in private hands.)
Having completed his task, Godwin-Austen headed back down the Baltoro and then north-west, to the Nushik La, to become the first Westerner to see (and survey) the Hispar Glacier. He took in many other parts of the Karakoram on his two expeditions there.
He carried out other expeditions, between 1862 and 1877, to Ladakh, Zanskar, the Aksai Chin, Lake Pangong area of Tibet, Northern Burma (Manipur) and Assam.
The name Mount Godwin-Austen was proposed at an RGS meeting in 1888. It was overwhelmingly accepted(sic)by the meeting, chaired by Sir Henry Rawlinson, but later rejected by the Society's Council. In fact, there is an excellent case (other than its polysyllabic disadvantages compared to 'K2')for the mountain to be named 'Godwin-Austen', as no local name existed, despite searching enquiries by Godwin-Austen (who was committed to local nomenclature and despised 'fanciful' 'Western' names such as 'Mitre Peak', 'Golden Throne' etc.)himself (and others, later). It was he who fixed the mountain's position, found the way to it (though he crossed the Skardo La rather than follow the river, as present-day trekkers tend to)and fixed its height with admirable accuracy.
Sir Martin Conway's 1892 expedition was indeed the next to explore this area, but it is worth recording that almost all of his preparatory information came from Godwin-Austen, whom Kenneth Mason rightly called, 'probably the greatest mountaineer of his day'(Abode of Snow), not least because he had broken the mountaineering high-altitude record, made three ascents (at least) above 6000m and many above 5000m before the Matterhorn was climbed.From: Catherine Moorehead, katetmc@aol.com, Guildford, Surrey England: Godwin-Austen's first and authorised biographer. 92.19.140.76 (talk) 16:14, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
Alternate name in infobox
I've heard the name Qogir and of course Mount Godwin-Austen, but this is first time I've seen the name. Chhogho Ri. I have read the source article and I'm still left wondering if it deserves to be so prominently displayed in the infobox. One thing that shakes my confidence in the source article is that the author doesn't even get the commonly accepted modern name right: He renders it as "K-2"—hyphenated with a small numeral 2—again, something I don't recall ever seeing before.--Racerx11 (talk) 16:53, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
I see the mention now in that section. Ok, well, I still think I will remove it. Actually, I have in the past thought about including Qogir or Godwin-Austen as an infobox alternate name, but never did it, mostly becasue neither one really seemed appropriate or deserving enough over any other. Thats probably why I'm questioning this inclusion. Thank you for your time.--Racerx11 (talk) 18:11, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
File:50 rupees back.JPG Nominated for speedy Deletion
An image used in this article, File:50 rupees back.JPG, has been nominated for speedy deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations
What should I do?
Don't panic; deletions can take a little longer at Commons than they do on Wikipedia. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion (although please review Commons guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use)
If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used.
To make sure this an image of this stunning note will remain available I've uploaded a new one, depicting a similar one from my own collection of K2 paraphernalia. File:PAKISTAN 50 RS by Qwrk 1024WIDE.JPGReverse side of Pakistani 50 rupee note (newer image)
K2 is not the second highest mountain on Earth. It is the second highest mountain on Earth's terrain. There are many higher mountains under water. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.159.18.48 (talk) 19:43, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
Just wanted to let you all know that Jennifer Jordan will have a new book out in August. "Last Man on the Mountain" is about the life and fate of Dudley Wolfe, member of the 1939 Wiessner expedition. Qwrk (talk) 13:48, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Another excellent new book is Buried in the Sky, 2012, by Peter Zuckerman and Amanda Padoan which describes the infamous 2008 disaster from the point of view of the Sherpas--six of whom (of eight) got killed, along with several westerners. The central point being that Sherpas have grown from being mere4 porters to superb climbers able to do the really difficult moves--and rescue their clients under often apalling conditions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.174.44.176 (talk) 20:53, 12 July 2012 (UTC) block evasion Professor marginalia (talk) 15:13, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
Ferrophobia kills climbers
Off-topic discussion
If this thing is so lethal and people still continue to climb it for no rational reason, why don't they install permanent metal chains, ladders, footpaths to make it safe? Today these items could be easily delivered "in situ" by helicopter and screwed into bedrock using a Li-ion handheld drill and last almost an eternity. 87.97.108.9 (talk) 00:55, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
Why stop there? Why not install a tram, or even an elevator? The whole point of climbing it is the challenge. For example, if you could drain the ocean, then anyone could go to the bottom of the Marianas Trench. It might look kind of different, but it probably wouldn't be much to write home about. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 02:39, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
No, the whole point of climbing it (after thousands of other people have already done so) is so douchebags can brag about it with the hope that other douchebags will think that they're cool.--172.190.50.79 (talk) 09:35, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
I take it you are not a climber. I am. On one hand, there are (semi-permanent) items of protection, called bolts, on many climbs. Many popular climbs have fixed ropes attached, and ladders, but they typically last only one climbing season, and cover only a tiny portion of the route. However, the more important answer is that fixed protection would do almost nothing to reduce the deaths. You do not comprehend the power of an avalanche, which will take out fixed protection. You don't comprehend the debilitating affects of low oxygen levels, which aren't mitigated by a ladder. You don't comprehend the power of 150 mph winds, and far below zero temperature, which can kill, and no ladder or chain will solve.--SPhilbrick(Talk)16:05, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
Success and Repeats
This section exhibits yet another meaningless, maudlin instance of "emotional":
"This ascent was emotional for the American team, as they saw themselves as completing a task that had been begun by the 1938 team forty years earlier."
How about "This ascent carried historical significance for the American team, as they saw themselves completing a task begun by the 1938 team forty years earlier."
I so miss the clean look of this page just a few months ago here without the alternate names cluttering the infobox; but besides the aesthetic issue I don't think there is a need to place all these names here. The issue is covered adequately in the body of the article and "K2" is the widely used name for the mountain. Also as touched on in the article, the name is a perfect fit. It's almost too good for it to not stand alone.
As the alternate names were added unilaterally without consensus, I am going to remove them per the reasons above. If anyone objects, you are, as always, free to revert and discuss here. Thank you. --RacerX11Talk to meStalk me21:03, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
Pakistan rankings
Another thing bothering me about the infobox for a long time is the Pakistan ranking, where it says "(1st in Pakistan)" here and similar in the infoboxes of the other Pakistan high peaks. I haven't looked to see who added them, why or how long ago, but does anyone care if I delete them from this page and all the other pages that have it? Not sure but I think its the top twenty or so in Pakistan that contain the link. Whatever the number, I would be glad to delete them all. We really don't do it like this for any other country. Any thoughts? --RacerX11Talk to meStalk me21:23, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
You went ahead and deleted the national ranking from the infobox after supplying good reasons for doing so and waiting 4 days for a response. Another editor then reverts you without responding here or responding to your reasons. Therefore I restored your version. 16:05, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
Primarily, I am just concerned with giving the infobox a cleaner look. An editor has suggested we need the link to indicate it is the high point of Pakistan. Thats fine, but we can also do that in the body of the article. On mobile. I will look into this later today. RacerX11Talk to meStalk me17:20, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
I have checked several other articles about national high points and all of them have simply Country high point under listings. Why should K2 be different? Note Pakistan's claim to K2 is contested and the international community is neutral on the issue. Viewfinder (talk) 18:50, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
Agree. My above post is clumsy so allow me to restate.
This all started with a desire of mine to clean up the look of a few infoboxes. A fair point was raised that the link I had removed was the only thing that explicitly states K2 is Pakistan's highest point. If we decided such a statement is needed, then that can go in the body, instead of the infobox which still contains the Country high point link as VF points out. Hope that clarifies my position. RacerX11Talk to meStalk me19:43, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
That is reasonable. My contention was over the issue of the fact that it is the highest point in the country not being mentioned. Mar4d (talk) 09:41, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
K2 Early Exploration
Contrary to the website posting, K2 was not first surveyed by Montgomerie. He was the first to note its existence, through a telescope from the Deosai Plateau, in 1856 (along with Masherbrum). Its height and position were fixed by Haversham Godwin-Austen, from a point about 1000m above Urdukas, on the S side of the Baltoro Gl.(Godwin-Austen is called Haversham, the second of his forenames, not Henry, the first.)
He carried out his survey of K2 in 1860, in the course of a long expedition which started at Skardu, went up the Punmah and Chiring Gls almost as far as the Mustagh La, before returning to the Baltoro then swinging right over NW to the Nushik La above the Hispar Gl, returning to Skardu (and eventually Srinagar) by the Skoro La. He surveyed many ancillary glaciers during the course of this three-month expedition. He was the only Westerner in the party, which otherwise had an interpreter and 66 'coolies', as well 164 feet of rope for river-crossings, long poles for the porters, and a garden hatchet for himself for step-cutting! (Godwin-Austen had already surveyed large swathes of Kashmir, and went on to explore Rupshu, Ladakh, Zanskar, the Lake Pangong area, the Aksai Chin, Manipur and Nagaland in Northern Burma and Assam, and Western Bhutan.)
I say this because I am Godwin-Austen's first and authorized biographer. My biography of him is coming out on September 30, 2013. Advance details can be seen by visiting the publisher's website at: www.nwp.co.uk and on the homepage Main Menu clicking on Forthcoming Titles. I'm happy to answer any queries personally but will not respond to those who wish to exploit the name, position and history of K2 politically. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.7.139.124 (talk) 12:11, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
Thank you for this announcement. I just mailed your publisher. Feel free to contact me outside wikipedia. Qwrk (talk) 13:23, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
K2 Early Exploration
I should have added my name to my article: it's Catherine Moorehead, and I can be contacted at katetmc@aol.com by any person interested in my comment on Godwin-Austen's contribution to K2's history, as long as they do not have a particular political axe to grind.
My biography of Godwin-Austen - the first and authorized biography, comes out on September 30, 2013. Readers may well be surprised by the breadth and quality of Godwin-Austen's explorations which, apart from extensive Karakoram work, ranged from the Pir Panjal through Rupshu, Ladakh, Zanskar, Lake Pangong and the Aksai Chin, Western Bhutan and Sikkim to the Nagaland-Manipur areas of Northern Burma and Assam. Further details about the book, and Godwin-Austen's life, can be seen at www.nwp.co.uk; on the homepage Main Menu, click on Forthcoming Publications. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.7.130.120 (talk) 09:38, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
K2 is in India
I would like to clarify that K2 is located in India and not in Pakistan. It is part of the Karakoram ranges in India. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.95.34.29 (talk) 15:02, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
K2 IS IN INDIA
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It is important to include after the line "It is located..." that "This is disputed as India considers it to be it's own territory as part of the state of Jammu and Kashmir." You may refer to Wikipedia's own discussion at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AGeography_of_India#K2_dispute
It is India's official view that it considers it's highest mountain to be K2. This is technically the very definition of 'disputed'.
203.92.80.243 (talk) 10:12, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
There is a note in the article addressing the issue you raised. We can't write this in the lead or even the body of every article of this disputed region when the parent region article already mentions that in detail. --SMSTalk11:13, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
Early History and naming of K2 (Mount Godwin-Austen)
I have just published the first and authorized biography of Haversham Godwin-Austen, who fixed the position and height of K2 (with remarkable accuracy), from a point above Urdukas on the South side of the Baltoro Glacier, in August 1861. Godwin-Austen's exploration of the Karakoram (its first systematic exploration), as well as his expeditions to Rupshu, Ladakh, Zanskar, the Lake Pangong area and the Aksai Chin are described in detail. A later section in the book is given over to a discussion and history of the naming of K2.
The book is called: The K2Man (and His Molluscs)
Further information/discussion available from Catherine Moorehead, katetmc@aol.com ~ ~ ~ ~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.7.141.232 (talk) 12:15, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
Wanda Rutkiewicz
id like to add a comment to the article: on 23rd June 1986 K2 summit was reached by Wanda Rutkiweicz - a Polish mountain climber. She was the first woman to successfully summit K2. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.40.88.11 (talk) 15:30, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
Despite several representations, your main article on K2's early history is still seriously inaccurate.
Captain T G Montgomerie of the Kashmir Survey spotted K2 by telescope from Haramukh on the Deosai uplands in 1856. He made a crude diagram of it, and Masherbrum. K2, however, was first surveyed by Haversham Godwin-Austen during his 1861 Karakoram Expedition which also reached the New Mustagh Pass, the Nushik La and many other remote spots. In the course of this expedition, he climbed a spur of Masherbrum to a height of about 900 metres above Urdokas, on the Baltoro Glacier. From there, he fixed K2's height and position with remarkable accuracy, and mapped the area. He also painted a wonderful watercolour of K2, the Biange heights, Gasherbrum IV, Broad Peak and most of the length of the Baltoro (which he was the first Westerner to see).
All this and much more is contained in my biography of Godwin-Austen, 'The K2 Man (and His Molluscs)'. It contains a great deal of new material on this most remarkable explorer, because his family (he died in 1923) have released his private papers for the first time. One of its many illustrations shows Godwin-Austen's watercolour of K2. I mention this not primarily as any commercial promotion, but because I want the truth to be known about a genuinely very great explorer, of the stature of Livingstone, Burton or Hedin, who is not generally known about, and because I want the Wikipedia K2 page to be accurate!
Catherine Moorehead (katetmc@aol.com)~ ~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.7.140.150 (talk) 11:50, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
I don't see how to edit the main page, perhaps that is because of its importance. I would suggest the following minor edits to the last sentence of the Geographical Setting section: A 1986 expedition led by George Wallenstein made an inaccurate measurement incorrectly showing that K2 was taller than Mount Everest, and therefore the tallest mountain in the world. A corrected measurement was made in 1987, but by that point the IDEA that K2 was the tallest mountain in the world had already made IT into many news reports and reference works.
The latter (IN to IT) appears to be a typo
The former (MEME to IDEA) is a bit of style point, but meme seems like a poor word choice, even blatantly incorrect and meme is an overused, often misused word. Idea is simpler and to the point. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mgiampa (talk • contribs) 19:17, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
Now that I've worked out how to sign in, I'd like to put my name to what I wrote above, in my capacity as Godwin-Austen's biographer (authorized by the family).Katejsm (talk) 10:11, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 26 July 2014
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Under the heading recent attempts I suggest adding:
At 0230 on the 25th July 2014, a team of Pakistani climbers reached the summit. In the past individual Pakistani climbers had summited K2, however this was the first Pakistani led expedition. The BBC reported the story on the 26th July 2014: "Six Pakistanis - Hassan Jan, Ali Durani, Rahmat Ullah Baig, Ghulam Mehdi, Ali and Muhammad Sadiq - form part of the country's fist successful team to reach K2's summit. Three Italians are also part of the group"
"One in every four people who have reached the summit have died trying" - I'm sure that is not true, unless they've continued to the top as ghosts (which is cheating, really). If I knew what was actually meant, I'd re-word it. --Roly (talk) 12:23, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
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The sentence "This ascent is controversial because Lacedelli and Compagnoni moved their camp to prevent the younger Bonatti from joining the successful ascent, thus deliberately stranding Bonatti and Mehdi overnight without shelter above 8,000 meters before the latter were able to descend while leaving oxygen tanks behind as requested." is honestly not correct. There was a long debade over that event in Italy from 1960 to 2004 (which you can see here https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spedizione_del_1954_al_K2_e_Caso_K2 in Italian) and the conclusions by Robert Marshall in 2009 (cit. Robert Marshall, K2: Lies & Treachery, Gazelle Distribution Trade, 20 marzo 2009, ISBN978-0953863174. ) as well as the last revision by Italian Mountain Organization CAI in 2004 (cit. Rivista della Montagna n.270, febbraio-marzo 2004 ) credit the fact that the camp was POSITIONED on a higher level to make the next day ascension easier. Something which does not reduce the gravity of what has been done, but at least it was not a deliberate attempt to leave the other two behind.
So I propose to change the sentence to "This ascent is controversial because Lacedelli and Compagnoni establish their camp at higher level, thus forcing Bonatti and Mehdi overnight without shelter above 8,000 meters before the latter were able to descend while leaving oxygen tanks behind as requested."
In the intro, the sentence "Unlike Annapurna, the mountain with the highest fatality-to-summit rate (246 summits, 55 deaths),[5] K2 has never been climbed during wintertime." is confusing. It seems to suggest that Annapurna's fatality-to-summit rate is 246 summits, 55 deaths. However, when following the link, those stats are for K2. I suggest taking out the stats altogether or changing them to Annapurna's stats. I favour the former.
"Unlike Annapurna, the mountain with the highest fatality-to-summit rate, K2 has never been climbed during wintertime." I'm not sure how to work it in there, but Broad Peak and Nanga Parbat don't have winter ascents either. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.58.71.6 (talk) 02:39, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
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Please change "between Baltistan, in the Gilgit–Baltistan region of northern Pakistan" to " between Baltistan, in the Gilgit-Baltistan region of northern India (State of Jammu and Kashmir)" because if you search in google maps the baltistan region in shown as a part of Jammu and Kashmir in India not Pakistan.
Shivachandraca (talk) 14:09, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
"One in every four people who have attempted the summit have died trying," citing the 302 ascents to 80 fatalities (roughly 1:4), is a bad misunderstanding of death per summit ratio. This number compares actual summits to deaths anywhere on the mountain, and doesn't tell us anything about attempted summits, etc. I edited the page accordingly. Maybe a real source can be found for the original claim, but I really do not think those statistics exist. "Attempted summit" is pretty of hard to precisify. If people want more than death:summit, some mountains have mortality above basecamp statistics, but I'm not immediately seeing any for K2. Warm Worm (talk) 21:49, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
Wanda Rutkiewicz
Another request (the first one was in Dec 2013) to complete the article with the following quote, from the article about her (in the quote I replaced "she" with "Polish Wanda Rutkiewicz").
<ref>In 1986 Polish Wanda Rutkiewicz became the first woman to successfully climb and descend K2, which she did without supplemental oxygen, as part of a small expedition led by Lilliane and Maurice Barrard. Her triumph was marred when both the Barrards died on the descent, becoming two of thirteen climbers to die on K2 that summer.</ref>
~~moniak53~~
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Annapurna has a fatality rte of 22.35%, while K2 has a fatatlity rate of 26.49% based on the numbers presented here.
Why is K2 listed as the second most dangerous after Annapurna, when the numbers say different?
174.7.41.249 (talk) 05:44, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
With 302 summits and 80 fatalities, about one person dies on the mountain (K2) for every four who summit.
…
Unlike Annapurna, the mountain with the highest fatality-to-summit rate (246 summits, 55 deaths)...
I'm no mathematician, but I'm pretty sure 80/302 > 55/246
Yes, apparently this information (nevermind the math) has been screwed up for some time:
"302 summits and 80 fatalities" for K2 is sourced from here, dated 2010.
"246 summits, 55 deaths" is sourced from here dated 2007?; and get this, also from from K2!.
So both sets of numbers are stats for K2's fatality rate, one more outdated than the other. If nobody has an updated source, I think we should remove these statements entirely. --RacerX11Talk to meStalk me05:11, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
Not done::The "source" you link doesn't qualify as a reliable source by Wikipedia's guidelines on reliable sources, and certainly isn't as reliable as [[Encyclopedia Brittanica], the current source. Qwyrxian (talk) 05:18, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
Darkness Shines (talk) 21:43, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
Already done by Linhtetaung Mlpearc (open channel) 02:26, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
Done (Note I don't agree nor disagree with this request. I'm just implementing it due to no comments) Stickee (talk) 02:47, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
Not done because, as I am sure you are well aware, Gilgit–Baltistan is a disputed territory, but is currently administered by Pakistan, - Arjayay (talk) 14:35, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Mlpearc (open channel) 05:48, 6 April 2015 (UTC)