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Talk:List of converts to Christianity from Hinduism

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Which are the BLP violations according to you?

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I am creating a thread here as advised in the help desk. My all edits to this page and to another similar page were undone by User:Aman.kumar.goel repeatedly. I even requested him on his talk page to specify which sources and which names he considered a violation but he did not. Today, I see a block threat from him on my talk page. I am requesting again to specify so I can improve instead of undoing all my contributions in a single click. Thank you. Bringtar (talk) 12:52, 22 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The objections to your edits were (a) that some of the sources were unreliable, and (b) that many of the sources cited did not support a statement that the person had converted from Hinduism to Christianity.
Judging from the markup, it looks as though the citations were harvested from other articles. (We get editors who harvest citations from articles, and use the citations in other articles to make it look as though statements that have no citations are supported by reliable sources. Usually the harvesting editor has either never read the source they are citing, or has only read the headline.)
I think that at least one the citations is valid (or it would be if the citation template had been completed to an acceptable standard) - but evaluation of citations needs to be done on a case by case basis. So what you need to do is to put your changes into the talk page, with a subheading for each name. use the {{talk-ref}} template under each. Since verifiability has been challenged, quote from the sources to show that they support inclusion. Use the opportunity to improve the citation templates - for example, if a newspaper article is the source, then the citation template should show the date of the article, and the authors (if known) - make sure that the title is the correct one. Don't use bot editing for this, bot editors make lots mistakes.-- Toddy1 (talk) 09:27, 23 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Toddy1, thank you very much for the suggestion but what is the use of it if they are continuously removing it? I harvested few sources from other articles so that the other editor could not undo my works but all in vain. I saw your one entry to the article and I appreciate that. Thank you. Bringtar (talk) 18:09, 23 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

List of the disputed edits

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  1. Krishna Mohan Banerjee - prominent educator, linguist, and missionary[1][2]
  2. Krishna Pal - first Indian convert to Baptist Christianity due to the missionary activity of William Carey; subsequently preached the gospel for 20 years, before his passing[3]
  3. Dom Antonio - Bengali writer born in jomidar family of Bhushana.[4]
  4. Devasahayam Pillai - an official in the court of the King Maharaja Marthanda Varma. Beatified by Pope Benedict XVI.[5][6]
  5. Predhuman K Joseph Dhar - a Kashmiri author, social worker and writer.[7]
  6. Vengal Chakkarai - Indian independence activist and theologian.[8]
  7. Puroshottam Choudhary - Indian writer and one of the contributors to the "Bhakti tradition".[9]
  8. K. A. Paul - Indian political activist and founder of Global Peace Initiative organization.[10]
  9. Gnanendramohan Tagore - the first Indian and Asian to be called to the bar in England, in 1862.[11]

References

  1. ^ "Banerji, Rev. Krishna Mohan - Banglapedia". Banglapedia.
  2. ^ Gabriel, Merigala (2011). "Banerjee, Krishna Mohan". The Oxford Encyclopaedia of South Asian Christianity. Oxford University Press. doi:10.1093/acref/9780198073857.001.0001/acref-9780198073857-e-0097.
  3. ^ "Krishna Pal, First Baptist Convert to Christianity in India". www.wmcarey.edu.
  4. ^ Paniker, K. Ayyappa (1997). Medieval Indian Literature: Surveys and selections. Sahitya Akademi. p. 69. ISBN 81-260-0365-0.
  5. ^ "Vatican refuses to change the caste title of Devasahayam Pillai". The Hindu. 13 May 2017.
  6. ^ "Indian martyr, Devasahayam, cleared for sainthood - Vatican News". www.vaticannews.va. 22 February 2020.
  7. ^ Irfan, Shams (28 November 2011). "Faith Accompli". Kashmir Life.
  8. ^ "The Importance for Christian Theology of Religious Experience among Hindu with a Special Reference to the Work of the Spirit in General Revelation".
  9. ^ Taneti, J. (18 December 2013). Caste, Gender, and Christianity in Colonial India: Telugu Women in Mission. Springer. p. 169. ISBN 978-1-137-38228-3.
  10. ^ "Evangelist drops bombshell | Hyderabad News - Times of India". The Times of India.
  11. ^ Tagore, Rabindranath (26 June 1997). Selected Letters of Rabindranath Tagore. Cambridge University Press. p. 113. ISBN 978-0-521-59018-1.

Discussion

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@Bringtar: For the sources listed above, please can you answer the two key questions:

  • How does the source support the claim that the person converted from Hinduism to Christianity?
  • Is the source reliable?

Please.-- Toddy1 (talk) 19:43, 23 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Toddy1: Please let me understand it better before I provide sources. You mean if a person was born in a Hindu family and if there is a reliable source that supports that he "converted to Christianity" then it can be included or not? If the source needs to say the person "converted from Hinduism to Christianity" then most of the entries in List of converts to Hinduism from Christianity and List of converts to Hinduism from Islam do not support it but still these were included and even kept by User:Capitals00 and User:Aman.kumar.goel? --Bringtar (talk) 06:15, 24 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Let me give you an example of what is required. I keep telling it, but you do not seem to get it.
[In a work environment, people do not always understand the requirements of the customer, of quality assurance, and of the team. The same applies to Wikipedia. We are not trying to make you feel bad. We are trying to help you.]
K. A. Paul - the citation supporting this is: "Evangelist drops bombshell". The Times of India. 9 June 2007.
Notice that I made corrections to the citation template. This is useful because citations should have a correct title, date, author names (if known). But it is also useful, because it is evidence that I have actually looked at the source I am citing - something not typical of editors who harvest citations from other Wikipedia pages. Note the Wikilink to the article on the The Times of India - remember people from far away places have not heard of Indian newspapers.
Does the source support inclusion in the list. The article says: "His family converted to Christianity when he was three years in 1966." But it does not mention what religion his family converted from.
Is the source a sufficiently reliable source?The Times of India is a published newspaper, which is a plus point. But search the archives of Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard to see if they have something:
Conclusion Find another source - the source does not support the claim, and The Times of India is not necessarily a high-quality source as required by Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons
Does that explain what to do?-- Toddy1 (talk) 09:03, 24 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Toddy1: BTW, I disagree with the edit here. The article was written when Nirmala was alive and it does not cover her own statement. She died in 2015, that means we can surely find her own statement that she converted to Christianity from Hinduism. If it is not available then it would mean that we are contradicting the person's own account. Aman Kumar Goel (Talk) 10:47, 24 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"we are contradicting the person's own account" - please provide a source for "the person's own account", which you say is being contradicted.-- Toddy1 (talk) 10:57, 24 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Also, few more links explicitly stated here, here and here. Just takes a couple of minutes to verify from plenty of reputed sources available, if no time to check her interview here (speaks about it at 1:30 onwards). Loveall.human (talk) 13:09, 24 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yes there are a few reports that cover her interview about her conversion and religious work.[1][2][3]  Though they don't include a statement that she converted from Hinduism. I am yet to find one. Aman Kumar Goel (Talk) 14:33, 24 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Why are you removing without even veryfing the sources? Have you checked the interviews or not? And please stop using WP:LINKVIO at your whim. --Bringtar (talk) 08:01, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It is a WP:LINKVIO since the upload was made in violation of copyrights. Wikipedia cannot entertain copyright violation. This twitter link does not verify conversion from Hinduism to Christianity, nor does your quote additions are explicit about Puroshottam Choudhary and Henry Alfred Krishnapillai if they were Hindus. The video about Remo D'Souza does not verify the same as well. If the information is actually important then you should find WP:SECONDARY reliable sources than misrepresenting Twitter or Youtube links. Aman Kumar Goel (Talk) 16:13, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
If you have any problem with any particular entry or source then remove only that particular entry or source, why did you remove the entire formatting and quotes that have been added by me? Before you undo my edits, I would like to know what exactly you mean that uploading was made in violation of copyrights? The youtube video is not uploaded here, only the url is linked for verifying self-admission and WP:SECONDARY is not needed for these list items. For Vinod Kambli, 2 references have been provided, one is the twitter link and another is the Indian Express newspaper link with quotes. Bringtar (talk) 10:09, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
There is problem with every single entry of yours that's why you were reverted. Your quotations do not verify the conversion. WP:SECONDARY is necessary and your own analysis isn't important because it violates WP:OR. Where did I say that the Youtube video was uploaded on Wikipedia? Read WP:LINKVIO properly. Where does this source mention Kambli converting from Hinduism to Christianity? Aman Kumar Goel (Talk) 02:48, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
There might be a few problems with my edits but you, being more experienced editor compared to me, have made more problematic edits on these topic areas so I am sorry, I cannot take lectures from you on this. You have been repeatedly told not to remove my quotes and formatting. I am not going to repeat the same thing again so I would ask you to comply. Bringtar (talk) 15:51, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I have removed Vinod Kambli from the list due to lack of self-admission of his conversion from Hinduism. I read WP:LINKVIO and no where it says that youtube links cannot be used. Can you please specify how WP:LINKVIO applies to this particular youtube link for self-admission? Bringtar (talk) 15:56, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I have already noted that there is problem with every single entry of yours. Your quotes do not verify the conversion and your names haven't confirmed they converted from Hinduism to Christianity. WP:LINKVIO says that you cannot use links that are violating copyrights and that video was not uploaded by the original creator of the video. You should not be tagging your own problematic edits but get rid of them. I should repeat again that "If the information is actually important then you should find WP:SECONDARY reliable sources than misrepresenting Twitter or Youtube links.".  Aman Kumar Goel (Talk) 16:52, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hindu

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I m talking 2405:201:5506:901F:6CE2:4E7B:F76D:814D (talk) 06:43, 19 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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