Talk:List of countries by Nobel laureates per capita

Austria, Hungary and Austro-Hungarian Empire: People born in these countries should be listen in country of birth also. E g. Composer Liszt was born 1811 in Kingdom of Hungary and had only hungarian passport. Ruzicka,ethnic croat (mostly) was born in Hungary and should also be listen under Hungary. Prelog, etnic croat was born in Sarajevo, Bosnia Co-dominium jointly under Austria and Hungary. He should also be listend under Austria and Hungary! Then we have those born as Hungarian citizens not included! Gajdusek, Friedman and Politzer are some. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.129.216.203 (talk) 09:35, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

Alfred Nobel would not want this list to exist

The goal and spirit of the Nobel prize is to reward those who benefit mankind as a whole. The Nobel prize was founded to make amends for gaining a fortune by selling weapons that countries use to fight each other. Alfred Nobel would have wanted the Nobel prize to be beyond the destructive nature of national pride. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.82.218.114 (talk) 05:58, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

ROFL. What an absurd comment. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.12.18.129 (talk) 20:35, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

Faroe Islands

Why was Faroe Islands not given the first place? Why is it marked with a long dash? 109.66.201.213 (talk) 19:18, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Because it is not an independent country. Pristino (talk) 02:52, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Neither is the EU, but there it is... 86.2.64.179 (talk) 08:46, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Quite so. Utterly ridiculous to list the EU.

I propose that the Faroe Islands be striken from the list and instead counted with Denmark. They're an autonomous region, but they've never claimed independence – unlike Tibet and Hong Kong. Dank Chicken (talk) 20:12, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

I looked in to this further and found that the laurate from Faroe Islands is already counted as Danish, which means he was counted twice. Fixed edit now.

Dank Chicken (talk) 14:25, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

Rating Nobel Prizes per population may not be as edifying as calculating population, wins, and number of years the prize has been offered.. Yet the Tiny technologically advanced state of Israel with her unmatched contributions to mankind, cannot be ignored.

You beat me to it. I came here to make that comment. On this much more reasonable basis, Israel is easily entitled to head the list.

Move to Article space

I think the article is sufficiently complete to move it to article space, with the title "List of countries by Nobel laureates". Anir1uph (talk) 04:50, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

What a mess! I want this article back to where it was: my user space! It should be on User:Pristino/List of countries by Nobel laureates per capita. The talk page should also be restored. Pristino (talk) 17:15, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Why can we not improve the article here? I do not see your problem...can you please explain? Anir1uph (talk) 18:09, 5 March 2012 (UTC) To stress my point, I believe this is an important article, that is why I wanted it to be in the article space. Anir1uph (talk) 18:13, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Scientific List

Should Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences be included when counting the Nobel prize for science fields? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anir1uph (talk • contribs) 18:17, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Science or not doesn't matter since this if for all Nobel prizes. The Nobel Memorial Prize shouldn't be included since it isn't a Nobel Prize. --Perstar (talk) 08:57, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

I would like to see the "Science List" without economics, as is is doubtfully a science and definitely not a Nobel Prize. This would give a much more meaningful metric.

189.130.243.235 (talk) 23:35, 3 February 2015 (UTC) badenk

Azerbaijan

I added Azerbaijan to the list because Lev Landau was born in Baku, Azerbaijan. This addition was undone on the basis that Baku was a part of Russian Empire. The exact criteria for inclusion in the list is not clear. If it is based on the BBC article "BBC News - Which country has the best brains?"., then according to that article

Where the website mentions multiple countries in relation to a prize winner (country of birth; country of citizenship; country of residence at time of award) each of those countries is credited as having won the prize

This might not be the most useful criteria but it is pretty straightforward. It looks like BBC just didn't notice that one for some reason. Otherwise I don't see why Arthur Lewis is included under Saint Lucia, but Landau isn't included under Azerbaijan. When Arthur Lewis was born Saint Lucia was part of British Empire, it became independent only in 1979. Azerbaijan became independent in 1918, while Landau was still in Baku, and then lost its independence to Soviet Union in 1920. Just like Landau, Arthur Lewis was only first-generation Saint Lucian, his parents immigrated there from Antigua. Unlike Arthur Lewis, who got his higher education from London, Landau got part of his higher education in Baku. Russian Empire is a country that does not exist anymore. Eventually it disintegrated into 15 other countries. Throughout their mutual history all the territories belonging to Russian Empire helped its development with their human and natural resources (some more, some less). I don't see why only Russia should claim all the Nobel Prizes. So I think that Azerbaijan should be included in the list. --Tiraniyaya son (talk) 06:09, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Adjusted for population at the time of the Nobel Prize

IT MAKES NO SENSE TO LIST NOBEL PRIZE PER CAPITA IF YOU DON'T DO THE CALCULATION FOR THE SIZE OF THE POPULATION AT THE TIME OF THE NOBEL PRIZE, THEN ADJUST IT FOR POPULATION INCREASES! POPULATION DEMOGRAPHICS HAVE CHANGED A LOT IN OVER 100 YEARS! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.161.235.82 (talk) 21:28, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

We could calculate an average of the country's population between 1901 and 2012, but population data in most authoritative sources is available from 1950 onwards. Pristino (talk) 05:30, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Inclusion criteria

Well, I already had doubts concerning many aspects of this article but the last modifications of Pristino force me to ask. Are the inclusion criteria for nobel laureates clear enough, consistent and relevant to the subject of the article? I don't understand how you reach 19 for Japan, 336 for the United States, 59 for France and 119 for the UK. According to the section dedicated to this issue, laureates are taken into account each time the name of a country appears on their biography on the website of the Nobel Prize committee (www.nobelprize.org). In that case Japan should have 20 laureates, France either 64 or 65, the US 333 or 334, the UK 117 or 118. It appears that different inclusion criteria are used. Even by using the table compiled by the BBC (which is flawed and not the best reference), we obtain 334 for the US (323+11), 59 for France (57+2), 19 for Japan (18+1) and 118 for the UK (117+1). But if we extend the logic of the section named corrections, it should be US:334, France:64, Japan:20, UK:118. Is there an explanation? Eleventh1 (talk) 08:55, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

The BBC's british, so their count of "british" NL includes some laureates born abroad (such as Andre Geim and Konstantin Novoselov), but then foreign NL are counted, only those born inside the country are included. Fortunately, there's no Nobel in Maths, for I'm not sure the BBC could get it... 78.232.54.121 (talk) 12:02, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Whenever there is a way to get facts wrong, the BBC manage it. A byword for bias and bigotry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.12.18.129 (talk) 20:38, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

Question

Why doesn't the link to the deletion discussion go to this page: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of countries by Nobel laureates per capita? 31.205.67.65 (talk) 07:41, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Croatia

Croatia has two nobel laureates in chemistry, fix it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.172.200.185 (talk) 04:16, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

The EU?

Since when is the EU a country - sovereign or not? Last time I checked it was a list of countries by laureates per capita. 86.2.64.179 (talk) 08:45, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Unless someone can find a source listing Nobel Prizes in which the EU is a category I say it ought to be removed. --71.50.8.205 (talk) 19:02, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

Why would you want to remove it? Does it bother you? Why so? Btw, Faroe Islands aren't a state and so isn't Tibet, Hong Kong or the World. Still, it is very informative to have them in the list. --Rabenkind (talk) 13:08, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Comment

In this article, there appears to be a exaggerated emphasis on "hard" sciences, given that there is no separate listing of laureates in Humanities. Taking into consideration that creativity is among the most talked about human resources for the future, this bias ought to be remedied, IMHO. A Literature or Economics Nobel is equally important as one for Physics, and this ought to be clear and transparent to our visitors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gerard Prins (talk • contribs) 05:14, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

Are there enough sources to establish the encyclopedic notability of the statistics for scientific Nobel prizes? All I could find was the Economist covering the topic once . I'm removing the "Scientific Prizes per capita according to citizenship at birth (by László Vazulvonal of Stockholm)". It looks like this is just the name of a Wikipedian . However, I'm in favour of removing the main scientific list too if we have consensus for that. Joe vom Titan (talk) 10:59, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

References

Maths & computing

In the scientific list, it might be accurate to add field medals and Abel laureates for maths and turing award for computer science. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Raphael.herouart (talk • contribs) 11:23, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Economics

The main lists whould be with only real Nobel prizes. Maybe another page could be made with Nobel prizes and prizes that, for prestige, use Nobel's name. --46.25.48.186 (talk) 12:42, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

The Economics Nobel Prize is selected by the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences, presented together with the other prizes, and fully covered by [nobelprize.org] in a way that clearly indicates that it is one of "The Nobel Prizes" and that its winners are "Nobel Laureates", even if it is officially called "The Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel". Prizes that shouldn't be covered (and aren't) are ones which genuinely only use the Nobel name for prestige, such as the Right Livelihood Award. 15.203.169.105 (talk) 10:43, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Let's at least not pretend it's one of the sciences though? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.203.185.124 (talk) 19:32, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Population (2013)

This Excel file contains only numbers up to 2010 - not 2013 as the article implies. Since that is four years ago, why don't you take the population data from Wikidata - wasn't this project created for such uses? --Rabenkind (talk) 12:50, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

The article's tables are up to the date with the newest prize announcements. Pristino (talk) 10:12, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for that but as the headline suggests, I was actually talking about the population. --Rabenkind (talk) 10:44, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, I thought you were referring to the BBC News Excel file with Nobel Prize stats. The UN Excel file includes population projections up to 2100. These are in a sheet called "Medium Fertility". Cheers. Pristino (talk) 06:35, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

Hungary had 13 scientific Nobel leatures and not only 8

Thirteen Hungarian or Hungarian-born scientists received the Nobel Prize: von Lenárd, Bárány, Zsigmondy, von Szent-Györgyi, de Hevesy, von Békésy, Wigner, Gábor, Polányi, Oláh, Harsányi, and Herskó. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.236.122.95 (talk) 11:56, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Polanyi was born in Germany, Zsigmondy and Bárány in Austria, and Lenard in Slovakia. Pristino (talk) 00:54, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Slovakia is not even on the list. Why? Because they have never had a laureate. Lenard was Hungarian... so were Polányi, Zsigmondy and Bárány... It should be really counted as 13.Mrszantogabor (talk) 17:03, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

Economy is not Natural Science

Please consider that.

Do not count scientists who were not born and educated in the specific country

USA has very high ratio of foreign born immigrant scientists who educated in Europe. With this method we can avoid the "double counting" of scientists. --Jalwaig (talk) 19:29, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Denmark

According to this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_by_country#Denmark

Denmark has 13 laureates, but this list says 14. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 113.185.6.117 (talk) 06:10, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

It is worth noting that currently the table says 13 laureates for Denmark (the 14th being counted for the Faroe Islands (?)), but the per capita count for Denmark uses 14 laureates: 14/5754356*10^7 = 24.329. If 13 is the "correct" count then this value should be changed to 13/5754356*10^7 = 22.592 and then the places of Denmark and Norway (which has also 13 laureates but less population) should be switched. Other entries should probably be checked as well. Ngfio (talk) 09:33, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Name change?

Since this article already includes several non-independent countries such as regions, organisations, continents and The World, I propose that the name of the article be changed to just "Nobel laureates per capita". If so, I could also add the other continents and religions/atheists. Of course, all non-countries would still be marked with a – and written in italics. Mr. Dodo'sss (talk) 07:13, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

I would like to add: I know there is an explanation in the first paragraph, but shouldn't the title be "List of countries by Nobel laureates per population", rather than "per capita"? The table has "no. of laureates per 10 million people", which is closer to "per population" than "per person". Agreed, I see news articles saying "COVID-19 deaths per capita" which is okay in the abstract but not when talking about cases per million. A person cannot die of a disease twice or three times. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Beep4BoingEE1 (talk • contribs) 03:09, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Listing religion and ethinicity

Stats on religion are highly doubtful, and mixing ethnicity and religion makes comparision nonsensical; in addition, "religion" is a highly personal matter which is not precisely measured; it has no place among a encyclopedia table claiming precision. It also opens the floor to biased counting methods

To the first point, counting ethnicity: this makes no sense if we want to include universal guidelines as to what constitutes being part of an ethnic group. This is not clear, especially taking into account mixing ethnicities; unlike nationality which is a fixed bureaucratic state, the is no way to use it. I suggest to remove any such rows. This affects the current column for Jews (which is doubly confusing as here the ethnicity is counted, not the religion as in the case of other religions).

As for religion, this is again open to speculation; religion is a private matter and we can only identify people clearly if they themselves stated this at some point; such opinions change over time, and makes these numbers highly doubtful and prone to manipulation. If we go by religion at birth, then all winners are nonreliguous.

This is supposed to be an encyclopedia, and only count measurable facts. Add to that that the edit was made by someone in suspicion of gaming the system, I vote to remove it.

 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.77.36.17 (talk) 14:43, 16 November 2017 (UTC) 

I think it's because Jews are an ethno-religious group while Christians and Muslims are only religious groups. I don't belive they should be removed from the list, but I do belive the distinction should be furthermore explained in the notes. And preferably added in the list of scientific prizes as well. Another solution is to make additional lists (all / scientific prizes) only including countries. Dank Chicken (talk) 17:22, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

IP edits reverted

My whole explanation for reverting the edits made by 67.169.127.149 (talk · contribs) didn't fit in the edit summary, so I'm adding it here: Firstly, the German Nobility is no longer an active organisation, unlike every other entity listed here. Secondly, you need to provide a link or source that clearly states the number of laureates and current population of the entity you wish to add to the list. If you still want to include an entity which doesn't fill the requirements above, please discuss it on the talk page before adding it. Dank Chicken (talk) 15:41, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

Stop removing Faroe Islands

The user "Dank Chicken" keeps vandalising the page, removing Faroe Islands from the list. They motivate this by saying it's already counted with Denmark, but by that logic Jews, European Union, Europe, North America, Oceania, Tibet, Christians, Hong Kong, World, Non-religious, South America, African Union, Arab League, Asia and Muslims should also be removed.

It begins with "—" instead of a number which clearly indicates it is a non-country entity.

185.128.40.162 (talk) 16:29, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

You're the vandal as Faroe Islands was not on the list the last time this article was edited by an extended confirmed user, and you keep adding it!

Hong Kong and Tibet have claimed independence, Faroe Islands has not. If we were to add every autonomous region in the world, this list would be too long. Dank Chicken (talk) 16:54, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Every autonomous region in the world doesn't have a nobel price winner, that's why only some are on the list. Faroe Islands have ALWAYS been there, since the article was first written in 2010. Look at the first revision: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nobel_laureates_per_capita&oldid=390153204. You were the one who started with removing it on the 16th of November: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nobel_laureates_per_capita&oldid=810637877. That act of vandalisation was not caught, and other people started editing other information. 185.206.225.34 (talk) 19:49, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

That only means a mistake was made and I corrected it. If we were to count all autonomous regions, we would have to separate every single USA state because they're about as much independent from Washington DC as the Faroe Islands is from Copenhagen. Dank Chicken (talk) 20:11, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Solution to inclusion dispute

My attempt in solving the issue of which entities to include is to create four different lists with continued separation of all/scientific prizes. The first two include all entities except autonomous regions to avoid double ranking and number of laureates counting. The second two only give sovereign countries ranking but includes autonomous regions in italics & dashed lines since their laureates are also counted with the affiliated country. Dank Chicken (talk) 22:22, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

This seems excessive to add two extra tables. power~enwiki (π, ν) 20:56, 9 December 2017 (UTC) I found this article from an WP:AE thread where Dank Chicken was blocked, so I'm not going to modify the article myself.

IP edits

Dear IP,

please stop further disruption as you did in the main page and discuss there.(KIENGIR (talk) 20:53, 17 July 2020 (UTC))

According to citizenship at birth should be invluded!

Citizenship at birth should be included! 90.129.216.203 (talk) 09:38, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

Palestine?

Arafat, the head of the PLO terrorist organisation got a nobel prize for the Oslo Accords which created the PA. There has not been a Palestine since 1948 when all of it became Jordan on 78% and Israel on 22%. If you must show Arafats nobel prize then its under the PLO, not Palestine. 94.118.31.2 (talk) 11:45, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Laureates or prizes

This list doesn't make clear whether it counts the number of persons who won Nobel prizes or the number of prizes. This question is relevant for two reasons:

• Frederick Sanger, Linus Pauling, John Bardeen and Marie Curie have won two Nobel prizes each.
• Many Nobel prizes are awarded to multiple people who are often from the same country.

Right now, the numbers given in the article don't appear to follow one system or another. Curie is counted twice for Poland but only once for France. However, it seems like most of the time, Sanger, Pauling, Bardeen and Curie are counted twice. Joe vom Titan (talk) 10:09, 11 February 2024 (UTC)