Talk:List of school shootings in the United States (2000–present)/Archive 1

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Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3


A Basic Flaw

This "article" suffers from the same problem as that discussed at length on the talk page of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school-related_attacks, an index to related compilations. There is no logic to it - it's a laundry list of random events, some of which are notable in the context of an encyclopedia, others of which are hardly memorable as footnotes in a local history. Interestingly, there are items referenced in the table that don't appear in the main listing - an example being the U of Alabama biology department shooting, of relatively recent vintage (2010) which garnered a fair amount of press at the time and is certainly as notable as a dispute between custodian and principal over the the cleanliness of classrooms. That single example speaks volumes about the risks involved in memorializing every event that results in a wounding or violent death on school premises or related thereto. The list of Wiki Projects to which this is purportedly related is ludicrous, the number of entries here that have real relevance for coverage of disasters, serial killers, etc, is pretty minimal. As to death, only if Wikipedia is to become a catalogue of obits. Schools and the US - ridiculous. Crime - is the goal to corral all the local crime police blotter listings in every weekly newspaper across the country - that's the apt comparison. I'm sure the creation of this page was well-intended, but with no criteria, it's a waste of energy and bandwidth. Irish Melkite (talk) 12:29, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

In looking at this article for the first time since I posted the above comment, I see that nothing positive has happened and, if anything, it's worse. "It took a few days for the youths to get caught, and this was cinched ... " - so reads one entry. Another notes that a suspect custodian was "on the lam" - how encyclopedic! Irish Melkite (talk) 02:55, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
This list is pretty much a joke as a serious article on Wikipedia. There is an entry for a police officer discharging his service weapon in self-defense (no one was actually even shot in the incident!) classified here as a "school shooting". This is patently absurd. I've removed incidents which were either suicides or self-inflicted accidents, these certainly do not qualify as "school shootings" under the modern-day definition of the term. There are numerous other questionable examples in this list, such as police officers firing on criminals in the course of their law enforcement duties, accidents that occurred between two individuals, etc. Basically, this list could use a lot more work. GarnetAndBlack (talk) 02:15, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
I agree - this is a ridiculous list with too inclusive criteria: taking place on school grounds. I will remove more murder-suicides that involved some man unhappy about being rejected by a woman. The fact that the unfortunate woman was a teacher has little bearing on "shootings at school." Women don't owe men affection on threat of death. What is the point of this list? If it's to show mass murders, then everything else should be removed - the violent arguments between adolescent males that lead to deaths because they have guns, the gangs, etc.Parkwells (talk) 14:17, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Merge the two sections

There's no call for having both a list of shootings and a table of "notable" shootings. I propose to merge the information from the "notable" table into the by-centuries-and-decades list and to delete the table. Since this list was recently split out from the School shooting article, I'm going to wait a few days for comments before doing so. RossPatterson (talk) 15:21, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Merging seems a good idea, but I would do the opposite. The sortable table is very useful and should not be deleted. --BlueMoonlet (t/c) 16:03, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

How is this possible?

The list includes an entry stating "April 16, 2007: Seung-Hui Cho, age 23, offender in Virginia Tech University shooting. 32 students and faculty were killed, along with another 17 students and faculty injured in two separate attacks on the same day." Am I missing something or did the shooter, after committing one set of shootings, went home or to a bar or something, and literally waltzed back onto the grounds later in the day to commit a 2nd series of shootings? Surely after the first incident, the scene would be crawling with police and forensics experts. Did they just let him in or something, just in case he wanted to say sorry? Even if it wasn't known at that point that he was the shooter in the first incident, being a crime scene, how did he even get in again? MrZoolook (talk) 06:06, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

I don't think we can really discuss this here (see WP:TPG) but that summary does appear to be accurate. The second lot of shootings was at a different site. This is the main article: Virginia Tech massacre; hope this helps. Best wishes DBaK (talk) 11:26, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Suicides

Should we count suicides as school shootings? The definition of a "mass shooting" is when two or more victims are killed at the same time. While strictly speaking a suicide can be a school shooting, people coming to this page are more likely looking for incidents in the mold of Columbine or Red Hook, when the perpetrator attempts to kill members of the school body and faculty, with or without a suicide. I am also conflicted about including things such as Kent State, a politically charged incident when state authorities killed students they accused of rioting. It is not really the same criminal typology. --Bellerophon5685 (talk) 21:44, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

A person who committed suicide at a school outside of the context of a mass murder-suicide incident would not go in this article, and probably isn't notable enough for anywhere on Wikipedia, except as a statistic in the suicide in the United States article. (Heroeswithmetaphors) talk 04:19, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
Then all those miserable suitors or estranged husbands who killed one woman and then themselves should be deleted from this list, and I agree. This is too broad a list: listing every shooting on school grounds, many between students with arguments; now perceived or classified as students in gangs. What is the point of this list? To show criminality on the rise? To show that school shootings have replaced bank robberies and outlaw gangs as the place for disaffected youth?Parkwells (talk) 14:06, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Error with Newtown, Connecticut

I checked the reference regarding finding only pistol casings at the scene of the shooting. I also watched both videos on the referred page. There is no mention of casings at all. This is the reference link: Authorities ID gunman who killed 27 in elementary school massacre. You have a strange format which I am not familiar with. I am also not familiar with all your rules and regs. I am going to remove this part of the listing and attempt to replace it with correct information I found on the Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting page. This is the part I removed:

"The news reported an assault rifle was among the weapons used but only pistol casings were reported at the scene. Authorities ID gunman who killed 27 in elementary school massacre".

I can't make the reference link for the above sentence work correctly and I don't want to mess with it.

...OK... I did what I could on the main page but I can't make it look 100%. Will someone please fix it? Thanks. I want to add, I'm a little frustrated with your weird format. It would take me all day to figure it out and I've been using PC's longer than most of you have been alive. Mr-Encyclopedia-Man (talk) 02:44, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

This statement is completely wrong and can be proven wrong by many sources: "Lanza used the Bushmaster .223 caliber rifle against all of the victims at the school." In fact, the rifle was not used during the attack at all, but facts and emotions don't mix very well when people are trying to destroy the US Constitution. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.77.174.58 (talk) 19:46, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Refs for SSRI column

I found this site - http://ssristories.com/index.php - which itself is not WP:RS but has links to articles about a lot of shootings and the SSRI connection which will make it easier to find the original story link or another WP:RS about the shooting. Not watching this page, but FYI. CarolMooreDC 03:14, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

This "connection" seems a bit contrived. All of those shootings and only 2 instances of SSRI use, and that is supposed to be somehow meaningful? Not only that, but only 2 out of the hundred or so shootings on this list would indicate that the shooters are LESS likely than the average american to be on antidepressant medication (I think it's around 1 in 10). Clearly more research is required, but until that is done, I think it should be taken down. Mod_Prime (talk) 06:03, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

I'm glad this "SSRI Use" column was removed at some point prior, as my sense is that, even given the link to data cited above, populating the table with this column to accommodate and promote someone's assumption that it would (eventually) "prove" a general connection between SSRIs and school shootings (not just specific incidents where supported by sources) constitutes original research and violates WP:NPOV and WP:NOR. For this reason I hope no one ever attempts to resurrect it. Dwpaul (talk) 04:01, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

United States population

Are the population estimates for the United States at the various time periods listed really necessary? Do they add to the article? I can't see any obvious use, especially since they are unsourced and fairly broad. Le fantome de l'opera (talk) 23:17, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Appalachian School of Law shooting

I'm just wondering if there was a particular reason why the Appalachian School of Law shooting on January 16, 2002 was not included in the grid for the school shootings. Peter Odighizuwa shot and killed two staff and one student in that incident. I would have added it myself, but I am not sure how to deal with the grid. Taquoshi (talk) 04:03, 16 June 2013 (UTC) Taquoshi

Aurora, CO 2012

This doesn't belong. It was not a school shooting. It took place at a theater. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.125.188.144 (talk) 08:48, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Count of incidents

I removed the count of incidents. It's not feasible to check on the count when editors won't think to - that is those editors who add or remove incidents. The count stood at 271, I counted 277.--User:Brenont (talk) 21:49, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

List of US school attacks

Does anyone else think that this section at the lower part of the article is a bit redundant and pointless? All this section is is just summarizing and repeating the information we already have in the History section. The section also includes a few stabbing-related incidents, and this is really just a page for a list of school shootings. There's already three list of school-related attacks pages for violent incidents that take place at primary, secondary, and post-secondary schools, which include non-firearm-related incidents as well as firearm-related incidents. I just don't see the need for the List of US school attacks section, and it would be better off without it. I am curious as to what other people think. Cyanidethistles (talk) 22:41, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

  • I had that exact thought as I made a minor correction to one entry in the School Attacks section earlier today, but since this has been my only contribution to this article, didn't think to mention it. Thanks for asking. However, it's from the section you are asking about that most relevant Wikipedia articles concerning the incidents are linked. It seems almost as if two (or more) good articles, compiled in different formats and with different strengths, were merged, but work needs to be done to complete the merge. As it is, much info is redundant but no section is completely redundant with the others. Dwpaul (talk) 00:05, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
    • Alternatively, come up with another article name and split this article into two. Hmains (talk) 02:18, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
  • Also, this article seems to indiscriminately lump together any shooting (and, as noted, some other non-firearm incidents of violence) that occurred on a school campus or property, including an accidental shooting (e.g., during a school play); a (premeditated) shooting of a teacher, school staff member or student by a wife, husband, lover, etc., hence a shooting not directed at students or other staff, but a murder (or attempted murder) of a specific person that only happens to have the school as its venue; and (what most folks will think of when they look for a list of "school shootings") attacks directly on one or more students or staff members where the venue does not appear to be coincidental but specifically chosen as, in effect, a terrorist act. I'm not sure how to fix that, or if it really needs fixing, but while we are discussing the flaws of this article thought I would point it out as (I think) it is misleading in its present form. Maybe an introductory note that describes the wide scope used to compile the list(s) would be helpful. Dwpaul (talk) 02:37, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Bath School Disaster

The Bath School Disaster shouldn't be on the list. While it is one of the deadliest school attacks in US history, it wasn't a shooting. Andrew Kehoe blew the school up with dynamite, then killed himself and others with a car bomb. If the two-list format is kept, it obviously belongs in the list of notable school attacks, but it should not be listed as a shooting. Davehogg (talk) 01:44, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

NationalReview.com possibly editing this article, Reddit members catches it

"Awesome piece of investigative redditing not only demolishes false claim, but catches NationalReview.com editing wikipedia page they claim as a source!"

"Sons of Divorce, School Shooters"

Automatic guns

Is there a listing of the number of automatic guns, both handgun and rifles, used in the list? John W. Nicholson (talk) 03:48, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

2 lists

This article is composed of two lists/sections. The first is labeled 'History' and the second is labeled 'List of U.S. school attacks' Some events are placed in the 'History' list; some events are placed in the 'List of U.S. school attacks' list and some are placed in both. Why? What events should go where? Hmains (talk) 22:58, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

  • And why do we have two lists anyway? Hmains (talk) 03:15, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
No reason I can see. If the real interest is the rise in mass murders at schools, only those should be listed. Otherwise it is ordinary American violence.Parkwells (talk) 19:37, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

BB gun shootings too?

Do you think shootings with BB guns should be included here too? Of course this page is really about shootings with real firearms, but there is an entry listed on this page about an incident involving a BB gun being fired at a school in Alaska recently. Even though BB guns generally don't kill, they can inflict a lot of serious harm on a person, but I don't know if they should be included on here. Cyanidethistles (talk) 20:55, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

I might include them if there were reports of injuries, but I suspect that bb gun shootings at schools happen all the time and largely go unreported. Ileanadu (talk) 17:54, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
No, this is already too inclusive.Parkwells (talk) 14:19, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Lone Star College CyFair

Is Lone Star College CyFair (Texas) stabbing attack on april 9th 2013 not added because there was no deaths (14 injured)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.207.129.34 (talk) 14:32, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

You don't know what a shooting is. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 17:28, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

"classified as"

With no link to suggest otherwise, I find the final sentence in the first paragraph - "The incidents below are classified as "school shootings." - to be misleading. Classified by whom? It suggests a level of authoritativeness that seems to be unsupported. Irish Melkite (talk) 02:33, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Btw, the footnote below belongs to some preceding comment, it isn't mine. I was unable to move it. Irish Melkite (talk) 02:35, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

List of U.S. school attacks

What is this list at the bottom supposed to be. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 17:33, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Check out the discussion above. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States#List_of_US_school_attacks Ileanadu (talk) 17:56, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Removed cases

All the following seem to fit the criteria given by the lead, so if anyone cares here are some more that were removed for various reasons. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 00:09, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Many if not all the incidents removed meet the definition of the article at the top, e.g., the intro paragraph says it is to include suicide. Whatever criteria that are used, they should be stated up front. I think before changes are made we need to figure out what the article should chronicle. Keeping track of them is good in case there's a decision that needs to reverse some of them. There's an amazing amount of work here, and I'm reluctant to delete any of the research without a guiding principle. I was kind of surprised that there's been that much violence associated with schools, from such an early date.
What to remove and what to include? Some of the early cases seem to be related to romance. Some are related to personnel decisions or differences of opinion. A thorough analysis of school shootings might include whether the person has a relationship to the school or not and if so what kind. Do we want only decisions about vengeance? What is Adam Lanza's relationship to Sandihook? Was that ever established? I seem to recall a teacher in MD who was killed not too long ago because of unrequited love by the student-killer.
After Columbine it was thought that the key feature of the perpetrators of school shootings was that they had been bullied. Adam Lanza wasn't bullied by the 5 & 6 year olds at Sandihook. What criteria will be important next? The only two things all have in common are guns and male shooters. Yet some earlier incidents, particularly the romantic ones, involved female shooters. Yet some of the school shooting cases resemble other shootings at other locations - movie theaters, shopping malls. What are the features that make school shootings of interest to the public at large? Ileanadu (talk) 01:28, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Bloody hell. This whole page demonstrates the insanity of the human race through this aspect of the American people.

"What are the features that make school shootings of interest to the public at large?" Oh, who knows? Why should they be of more interest when people are being shot and killed all over the place?

And yes, this is not a comment relevant to an encyclopaedia, but Wikipedia is not an encyclopaedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.14.113.156 (talk) 01:04, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Let's set up new criteria: do not include murder-suicides by jilted lovers or suitors, which generally is violence against women. Do not include single suicides (death limited to perpetrator.) Do not include accidental shootings; there are enough without them. Have removed them. also removed accounts that did not have Reliable Sources. Parkwells (talk) 15:29, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
In the early years, this list shows little but that violence in US society occurred at schools as well as many other places, and was usually committed by males: vengeful students, parents irate on behalf of children, student against student, workplace violence by people who were fired, violence by students who wanted grades changed. Why list these? Parkwells (talk) 15:28, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Use active voice

Do not use passive voice: "so and so was killed"; use active voice and show people responsible for actions.Parkwells (talk) 22:20, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Suggest changing criteria for this article

Let's discuss changing criteria for this list article. It is simply a long list, mostly of shootings that happen to take place at schools and reflect the high rate of US homicides and injuries by gun. What is the point? I disagree with including warfare incidents, or police/state actions related to political protests. If the underlying interest is the rise in mass school shootings in the US in the late 20th century, which articles already attract great attention, let's focus the criteria. There is a chilling article about school shootings in this week's New Yorker, Malcolm Gladwell's "Thresholds of Violence", relating the rise in mass shootings (which seems to be the underlying interest in why this list article was founded) to studies about how riots develop - and attract different people as they roll along (including people who would never have been part of the initial violence). A list with a focus on mass school shootings in the United States, rather than every act of violence that happens to take place at a school, might be able to make use of such research and give readers more to think about.Parkwells (talk) 13:11, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

  • WP lists are just lists of people, events, things--nothing more, for whatever use readers may see fit. They need not/should not serve the outside interests of any editor or group of editors. Such purposes are not included in the WP discussion of why lists may be created or maintained. Hmains (talk) 03:36, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

Pearl Mississippi Shooting

In the description for this it says the shooter killed his mom and then went to school and killed his ex-girlfriend and 49 other students when in fact he only killed 1 other student bringing his total deaths to 3 (the actual deaths column is correct though) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.74.163.136 (talk) 23:13, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

Change it then. I did it for u. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 00:31, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

Suggested entry for inclusion

An editor wrote to Wikimedia with a suggestion for an inclusion in this article. I will copy the suggested wording and source below and I've urged the contributor to join in the conversation to determine whether this entry belongs in the article.--S Philbrick(Talk) 14:46, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

N. Carolina Law Student Kills 2 With Rifle Published: January 27, 1995

"CHAPEL HILL, N.C., Jan. 26 (1995) A law student opened fire near the University of North Carolina today, killing two people and wounding at least two others with a semiautomatic M-1 rifle.

The man began shooting randomly as he walked along a downtown street around 2 P.M. He hit a police officer and a student who escaped unharmed when the bullet ricocheted off his keys.

The gunman was shot in the legs by officers, then tackled by a bystander who was shot in the struggle. He was identified by the police as Wendell Williamson, 26, a third-year law student and was charged with two counts of murder.

One man, a student on a bicycle, was shot in front of a sorority house. Another man was killed a half-block away on the steps of the rooming house where he lived."

Source http://www.nytimes.com/1995/01/27/us/n-carolina-law-student-kills-2-with-rifle.html

recent edit

One editor of little experience has made a great number of changes to this article today. I hope they can be reviewed by other editors here. Hmains (talk) 21:58, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Second paragraph of this page is incoherent

The second paragraph, especially the sentence including the misspelling "evidance", is pretty much incomprehensible; I'd try to fix it, but I can't actually figure out what it means, in terms of which types of event are included or excluded. Could the original author, or last editor, of paragraph 2 please clarify what they mean? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Martinholmes (talk • contribs) 16:47, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

Organized according to states with or without corporal punishment

Just in case anyone is interested I'm creating a draft Organized according to states with or without corporal punishment User:Zacherystaylor/List of school shootings in the United States

Most studies indicate that use of corporal punishment leads to more violence and the initial list, which only covers four years, confirms this however even if you don't count Newtown there seem to be more incidents in states with corporal punishment even though they ahve less population, but more deaths in those without although that hasn't been adjusted according to population, it will probably still be higher for this period when it is. For now I'm just using this as a draft that can make it organized in a different fashion which can be helpful when comparing states; however if anyone wants to use it otherwise their welcome to. Zacherystaylor (talk) 18:54, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

Exponential increase starting in the 1950s

The following table, derived from the details in the article, shows there has been an exponential increase in the number of shootings, starting in the 1950s. This suggests that something fundamental has gone wrong in society in the last 60 years - and it's still getting worse.

Date Number

1860s 6

1870s 7

1880s 11

1890s 9

1900s 9

1910s 9

1920s 9

1930s 8

1940s 8

1950s 17

1960s 18

1970s 30

1980s 38

1990s 62

2000s 64

2010s 132 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.114.140.102 (talk) 12:07, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

I'd be curious to know how complete the regular editors of this article think it is. They seem to have surged in 2013-4 and dropped since then assuming it's reasonably complete or statistically representative. Zacherystaylor (talk) 19:44, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

2010s broken

The 2010s table is not showing up. It looks like it was broken in this commit: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States&diff=770294436&oldid=770140431 I'm not experienced enough with tables to work out where to place the missing `}`. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.255.238.212 (talk) 16:53, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Ending Sentence of the Intro

I'm not sure the sentence "School shootings are an "overwhelmingly American" phenomenon,[1] and have become common place as much to be considered as part of "American culture".[2]" really belongs here, as both "citations" are from opinion pieces from The New Yorker and the LA Times. Neither author has any special knowledge of the subject or field. Secondly both articles were written while feelings about the topic were very high; The New Yorker piece shortly after the John LaDue legal proceedings, and the LA Times article after an event in San Bernardino and an event at a Planned Parenthood building in Colorado three days before. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.23.57.173 (talk) 16:36, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

November 2017 incident incorrect

5 children were not killed in the attack, the linked article says no children at the school were killed and that that the incident happened across multiple locations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bfperez (talk • contribs) 02:44, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

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January 12, 1910

The newspaper says that one child was shot through the heart and died, while the other child was shot through the lung and was critically injured, taken to the hospital as a result. Could this be edited to say 1 death 1 injury, instead of the current stated 2 deaths? Manhattan2 (talk) 04:24, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Missing Simon's Rock shooting

Hey folks, I just noticed this entry is missing a shooting at my alma mater. I can't update it because I'm too close to it. See Wayne Lo's entry for details. He killed 2 people and wounded 4. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ponopono (talk • contribs) 17:05, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

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Marshall School Shooting

Due to the sensationalism in the news linked to school shootings, it's natural that many will want to post as soon as possible about shootings that have occurred. Today a shooting occurred in Marshall County, Kentucky. Out of respect for the victims and the families, it is imperative that no one post until the facts surrounding the tragedy have been solidified. Dabblequeen (talk) 16:55, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 January 2018

the total amount of deaths drom school shootings in the US is 563 people killed. Avery marie (talk) 08:41, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. —KuyaBriBriTalk 15:09, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 January 2018

Thanks, this is better, but can we please ADD the school name? Also, # of injuries is listed as one when it should say 3.

A 17-year-old student ADD< at Pine Forest Senior High school> shot three classmates with a .25-caliber handgun, wounding them. One student was critically injured and treated for a neck wound.[214]


Documentation: http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1986/Three-Wounded-in-High-School-Shooting/id-afa935283764ec77fc932eab1a59aa9a Denverkris (talk) 18:10, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

Not done for now: The incident probably does merit mention in the article; however, we can't use the first source you provided because it's not from a reliable source. And the information you provided on the assailant violates WP:BLP in the absence of a reliable source. So that leaves us with the date, location, and the names and ages of the victims, which are corroborated by the reliable source you provided; however, these 3 individuals are presumed to be living and we really shouldn't publish the names of living non-public figures if we don't have to. —KuyaBriBriTalk 20:33, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
Done The AP New Archive is a [[WP:RS}} and it is possible to cite the event without violating WP:BLP guidelines. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 20:28, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
 Done again. The original request was edited. @Denverkris: I've added the school name and fixed the number of injuries. In the future, please don't edit your messages after people have replied to them; this makes the conversation harder to follow. Instead, you can post additional requests as further replies. Anon126 (notify me of responses! / talk / contribs) 08:48, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 January 2018

Please Add The Following To The Shootings:

June 6, 2017 Sandy, Utah 3 dead and 2 injured. At Brookwood Elementary in Sandy, Utah Memorez Rackley, age 39, and her 6-year-old son were killed by her ex-boyfriend Jeremy Patterson. Rackley's 9-year-old son and another 8-year-old girl were also wounded in the attack. Patterson then turned the gun on himself and took his own life.

References: http://kutv.com/news/local/breaking-elementary-school-on-lockdown-in-sandy https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sandy-utah-shooting-mom-reported-harassment-days-before-she-and-son-were-killed/ https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/sandy-utah-shooting-mom-young-son-dead-after-gunman-opens-n769241 http://fox13now.com/2017/06/09/sandy-police-release-new-details-about-moments-leading-up-to-deadly-shooting/ https://heavy.com/news/2017/06/jeremy-patterson-memorez-clark-rackley-sandy-utah-murders-shooting-instagram-photos/ SLC Snowboarder (talk) 08:44, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

 Not done The list criteria for this article: "... excludes...murder-suicides by rejected suitors or estranged spouses..." That desctiption includes the incident requested here. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 19:35, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

Statistics

The 'Comparison of historical shootings' section of this article, which has recently been created by one editor, does not belong in this article and should be in an article of its own. It contains statistics, not actual school shooting. Comments? Hmains (talk) 17:10, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Unverified/Inaccurate Numbers for Latest School Shooting

Change "14" to "TBD" and "20+" to "TBD" on the school shooting in Parkland Florida on Febuary 14, 2018 until verified numbers are provided by the police department and communicated by the media. Juderb (talk) 22:06, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Changed casualty number to 14, per recent news conference by Sheriff Israel. Will change deaths to "TBD", as this number is not verified as of yet. Edit Centric talk 22:17, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Robert Wickes at Brentwood East Junior High School (New York)

Why nothing on this incident? This mentally ill teacher stormed into his former junior high school, shot a student and a teacher or two, took the school hostage, demanded that former Top 40/disco station WBLI play a select group of songs that he felt described his mindset, then shot himself when they played "Fooling Yourself," by Styx. I've got a poorly written article on the incident here, but there are probably others elsewhere. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 16:37, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 February 2018

SANDY HOOK ELEMENTARY SCHOOL IS NOT ON THIS LIST? 67.81.247.30 (talk) 16:26, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

It is. Look in the 2010s section under "Newtown, Connecticut." –Surachit (talk) 18:19, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 February 2018

Under the external links section, would it be possible to add external links to resources for victims of school shootings? Here is a list provided by the Society of Child and Clinical Adolescent Psychology

--Rkang101 (talk) 03:37, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 January 2018

January 22nd 2018, unnamed sixteen year old opened fire on a school in italy Texas 172.97.16.214 (talk) 19:18, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

Not done: as you have not requested a specific change in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
More importantly, you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 19:33, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
Also, school shootings in Italy are irrelevant.  — Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs)  22:03, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
I think this is referring to Italy, Texas. http://time.com/5112440/italy-texas-high-school-shooting/207.195.108.24 (talk) 21:59, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 February 2018

under the section for 21st century, under total The most recent shooting is now the 14th of February, not the 1st of February 174.74.4.213 (talk) 23:47, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Seems to have been  Already done. — MRD2014 Talk 03:28, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 February 2018

February 26th, 2010 Tacoma, WA: A 30 year old special education teacher, Jennifer Paulson was shot and killed before classes began for the day by Jed Waits. Waits was later killed by police that day. 209.147.127.26 (talk) 23:50, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — MRD2014 Talk 03:29, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 February 2018

Please add: {Harlem, GA, 1993: Bryant Gillom, a 10th grader, walked out of homeroom into the hallway of numerous students with a .38 caliber revolver and gunned down 2 classmates, Ronricas "pony" Gibson died at the scene with gunshot to the chest while the other student, Ricoh Lee took a gunshot wound in the neck. Gillom claimed he was bullied by them in addition to fighting over a girl. He was acquitted of murder but received a sentence of 5yrs for possessing a weapon at school.} {http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/1999/04/25/met_259872.shtml#.WoXTa2CWyUk} Redmamabug (talk) 18:49, 15 February 2018 (UTC) Redmamabug (talk) 18:49, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

 Done — MRD2014 Talk 03:37, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 February 2018

Clean up of the section "Comparison of historical shootings" Lists of dates are inconsistent with each other and within each list. Copy paste doesn't keep bolding, non-capitalized words are kept from the original text: 20th century

total

There were 226 shootings during the 20th century:

break-down

During the first decade of this century there were 15 (the first shooting was during 1903 (2), 1904 (3), 1905 (2), 1907 (2), 1908 (2), 1909 (4).

During the second decade there were 19. (1910 (3), 1911, 1912 (2), 1914, 1915 (2), 1916 (2), 1917 (2), 1918 (2), 1919 (3).

The 3rd : 10 (1920 (7), 22 (2), 26).

The 1930's : 9 (30, 31, 34, 35, 36 (2), 37 (2), 38).

The 5th decade: 8 (40 (2), 42, 46, 47, 48, 49 (2)).

The 6th : 17 (50, 51 (4), 52 (2), 53, 54 (2), 55, 56 (2), 57, 58 (2), 59).

During the 1960's : 18 (60 (3), 61 (2), 66 (4), 67, 68 (4), 69 (4)).

The 8th decade: 30 (70 (5), 71 (2), 73 (2), 74 (4), 75 (3), 76 (3), 77, 78 (7), 79 (3)).

The 9th : 39 (80 (4), 81 (3), 82 (3), 83, 84 (4), 85 (5), 86 (5), 87 (5), 88 (6), 89 (3)).

The 10th saw: 62 shootings (90 (2), 91 (6), 92 (5), 93 (9), 94 (10), 95 (4), 96 (7), 97 (6), 98 (7), 99 (6)).


Because of these error's even within the list there's a couple errors. 1930 is listed twice. Once as the 30's and once where 1940 should be. 1960 is also listed twice with a similar issue, once as the 60's and once where 1970 should be.


This should be changed to be completely consistent such as

Total

There were 226 shootings during the 20th century:

Break-down of the shootings by decade: During the 1910's: During the 1920's: Etc.. 216.197.229.109 (talk) 01:40, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

I second this. I actually was going to edit this hot mess until I saw it was locked. It's needlessly confusing and difficult to read. I'm not sure what kind of deranged lunatic references things not only by ordinal decade but adds to the mess by also writing the far more familiar years,... but I can say for sure they probably were foaming at the mouth while they smashed it out on their keyboard ;-) TheWaffleTruth (talk) 18:20, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
I think it may have been fixed. — MRD2014 Talk 03:30, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

The "total" section for the 21st century is incomprehensible. I have no idea what is trying to be said. 21st century total (including February 14, 2018) From the commencement of the 21st century to the most recently occurring shooting (of February 14, 2018), the number of shootings is 206 +1 (this total is currently at a +1 value to the number shown : 60 + 146 shootings; including the most recent of February 14th, 2018, to represent the fact of the likelihood of the number listed in this article not including all the actual occurred number, and to represent the absolute certainty of the number simply being at a +1 value by probability of another shooting at some time during 2018). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.113.29.12 (talk) 11:34, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

No original research note

@Chris55: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_original_research - "for which no reliable, published sources exist" - the statistical data, is simply data, "facts, allegations, and ideas" - the information is factual information taken from the "Historical details", and described because there is a pattern. 23h112e (talk) 13:11, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

If it's the pattern that you are trying to establish in this section then that IS original research. Apart from that I can see little reason for repeating the details further down the article. Chris55 (talk) 13:15, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shootings_in_the_United_States#Number_killed_or_injured_(details_only_by_bullet,_or_indirectly_by_bullet_cause) - the information was just copied from the details and statistically analysed. 23h112e (talk) 13:13, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

The statistical analysis is also original research.
I'm quite aware that the table I put in the previous section could be regarded as OR but I simply added up the numbers with no analysis whatsoever, and without some such summary it's very difficult to get a grasp on this article. It did help me to realise that numbers we are talking about are relatively small compared with the totality of gun deaths in the US, which is over 30,000 per year, however they do occur among children who are generally little affected by this carnage. For this and other reasons it is therefore a hugely emotive topic. However a Wikipedia article is not the place to try and demonstrate whatever pattern you think is there and I'm not convinced there is any justification for over 2,000 words of 'analysis'. Chris55 (talk) 13:31, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 February 2018

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_High_School_shooting needs to be added 96.19.138.33 (talk) 02:23, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

This is a duplicate of the request below 96.242.234.94 (talk) 15:45, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 February 2018

Randy Thies (talk) 15:21, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

The incident at Frontier Middle School in 1996 is not included in the overall school mass shooting page of Wikipedia. But it is listed in a stand alone article in Wikipedia at this link: [1]

 Already done Listed as "February 2, 1996 Moses Lake, Washington" in the 1990s section. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 21:17, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 February 2018

Add to your list this school shooting.

Mitchell_Johnson_and_Andrew_Golden

These boys were kept at a Youth Services Center, part of the Arkansas Department of Human Services, Division of Youth Services, until age 18. Not strictly incarceration in the sense of prison. But it was a lock down facility, the Central Arkansas Severe Offender Program. I worked there. 108.65.66.202 (talk) 16:11, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

 Already done Listed as "March 24, 1998 Craighead County, Arkansas" in the 1990s section. I'm not sure what relevance the AR DYS incarceration note has, as there is no indication on this page that they were not sentenced for the shooting. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 21:21, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 February 2018

missing "I don't like mondays" school shooter Brenda Spencer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Elementary_School_shooting_(San_Diego) 2.96.207.195 (talk) 18:53, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

 Already done Listed as "January 29, 1979 San Diego, California" in the 1970s section Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 21:22, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 February 2018

The Feb 14th, 2018 shooting needs to be changed from "was arrested at a fast food restaurant." to "was arrested in a nearby residential neighborhood." [1] Abe.smith (talk) 01:51, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

 Done Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 21:32, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/parkland-florida-shooting-nikolas-cruz-continued-coverage-2018-02-15-live-updates/

Semi-protected edit request on 18 February 2018

I am not sure why Wikipedia has this article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_High_School_shooting but it is not included in the wiki article stating the history of school shootings. It needs to be added as one that happened on the history site. 180.183.203.16 (talk) 13:28, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

 Already done Doesn't anybody actually read this article before asking for something to be listed? Like those above, this is in the article already, listed as "October 1, 1997 Pearl, Mississippi" in the 1990s section Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 21:35, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Columbine-Angels list

There's a page at http://www.columbine-angels.com/School_Violence.htm that contains a list of every school shooting from the '80-'81 school year all the way through to '14-'15, many of which include a citation to another news source. Somebody who has more time than I should probably go through the list there and track down all the ones that aren't in this list here. For example, the shooting in Napa, California in May 1992 wasn't previously included here but was on that website. Weaselfie (talk) 23:57, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Individual Year Tables for 2010s

Would it be possible to add the year to each incident's date value rather than only do it for the first incident in each year? Although seemingly redundant, it would add consistency to the decades data above like there was prior to breaking out the 2010s. Further, it would be nice to re-add the column headings so it makes it easier to see and sort the Date, Location, etc. for people looking into each year. Fredrick Hagemeister (talk) 18:09, 17 February 2018 (UTC)— Preceding unsigned comment added by Fredrick Hagemeister (talk • contribs) 11:19, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

I split the data into years to make analysis easier, and because we are in the decade 2010's, at the time I thought, since time isn't really occuring in year periods in reality (time continues, continuously) it would be better to retain the continuousness of the entries, but decided against this latter evaluation, on the grounds of there being an actual value to the factor : year, and the yearly period has meaning to people, since there is actually a defined thing "years" it would be better to change the article to represent this fact. 23h112e (talk) 15:48, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm a noob here and trying to make sense of something as senseless as school shootings. I saw some discrepancies in the data summarized at the top summary table and in the tables for the decades. So I tried exporting the data to Google Sheets to try to do the math. It's somewhat hard because there seems to be a lot of problems, e.g., a lot of the dates have strange CSS-non-display numerical values and a bunch of the numerical data is preceded by a CSS-non-display value of something like "0,000,001" which is probably used by someone's tool for denoting the one's-digit. Anyhow, it would have been easier if all the dates had the years on them, but I've fixed that in my spreadsheet for all the exports. So I see how it says that people are supposed to update the summary table for the data by decade. However, my export shows 145 incidents in the 2010s while the table says 133. I also count one less incident in the 1860s than the summary table. I stopped there because I don't know how people are keeping track of the data here. In my other work with groups, we use a tool that handles data better and then export it or create a live feed for reporting/distribution needs. 141.166.176.52 (talk) 18:37, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 February 2018

Next, please analyze the places, locations and the number of shooting per year. It averages 5 yer year until around 2009-2010. If you multiply that on decade, you get a mathmatical computation. Next , us this to predict the next location. I called some friends on the force to see if they can help making a predictive modeling program 2600:8807:A700:35A0:7C22:2503:FA2F:9339 (talk) 11:52, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: Wikipedia is not a publisher of original research. If you are interested in such a project, feel free to use the information here, but be sure to check the sources. If you publish your analysis elsewhere, such as in a peer-reviewed journal, then maybe it will be included in Wikipedia eventually. Anon126 (notify me of responses! / talk / contribs) 19:19, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 February 2018

There's a new shooting that just happened in Ohio. Just Google it. Seventh-grader shoots self at Ohio middle school. Tzhu07 (talk) 22:33, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: A kid that has brought a gun to school and accidentally shot himself isn't quite the same as a deliberate school shooting. — IVORK Discuss 00:34, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

an empty detail template for additions to "Historical details" + any source not yet included

|- | |[[]] |0,000,001 |0,000,001 |[1] |-

23h112e (talk) 22:58, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

entries not completed from source at time indicated https://www.indystar.com/story/news/2018/02/20/list-indiana-school-shootings/354509002/ 23h112e (talk) 23:22, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 February 2018

The Kentucky shooting needs added

https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/23/us/kentucky-high-school-shooting/index.html 50.81.157.82 (talk) 23:16, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

 Already done — IVORK Discuss 00:23, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Needs an overall edit

This article contains some good information and is obviously the product of much hard work, but overall it is a disorganized mess. The "Statistical comparison (and analysis)" section, in particular, reads like someone's rough notes. To have encyclopediac value, it needs to be worked up considerably. Three long sections ("Statistical comparison (and analysis)", "Statistics of historical shootings", and "Historical details") massively overlap in their subject matter and should be compiled into a single ONE. I'd suggest that the "Historical details" section be used as the basis for a single list of shootings.

Yes, I'm a rando proposing a lot of work for you regulars, but this is an important article and deserves a polished treatment. 70.66.183.64 (talk) 15:21, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Sand Creek Massacre

How the heck is an Indian Wars massacre a "School Shooting in the United States?" Seriously. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.32.212.165 (talk) 18:25, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

A bunch of stuff in this article doesn't belong. Nothing to do with the article subject. But when I removed it I was reverted. FloridaArmy (talk) 18:39, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Excluded events?

The begining of the article states that events are excluded such as parts of war, police action, and murder suicide. However the list includes incidents that fit these descriptions:

July 26, 1764: This was part of the American/Indian Wars. November 29, 1864: Also American/Indian Wars. May 4, 1970 Kent OH: Shots fired were from the national guard breaking up a protest. May 16, 1986 Cokeville Wy: This was a bombing and the only firearm discharge was the murder suicide of the husband and wife perpetrators. All other injuries were from the bomb explosion.

137.241.250.129 (talk) 19:09, 22 February 2018 (UTC)Merlyn

Ongoing expansion looks like a mess

Hi. The ongoing expansion (permalink), mostly by User:23h112e, I guess, looks like mostly a mess. (The intention of using their name here not to blame them, but to warn about this post; some edits are not by that editor, I have not checked each of the many edits one by one). We have an introduction citing "the Australian based Raising children network and Centre for Adolescent Health" and a New York Times article about adolescent's brains and whatever. They do not provide any link to school shootings. Adolescents could as well, ride bikes is a foolish way, or drink in excess, it says nothing about why go and shoot.

Then there is a list of "Juniors tried as adults", with a cryptic person of age X, some date, some people died. What is this about?

There a completely misterious section "Pattern of killings"

The pattern of killings is a variation of a spilt of the first pattern 26, 26 i.e. The sequence runs 26, 26, 12, 12, 21, 21, 14, 14, 14, 14

1764 July 26, (0), 26, (3), 12, (1), 12, (2), 21, (1), 21, (2), 14, (1), 14, (3), 14, (0), 14 February 2018

The number of killings between the pattern is balanced; symmettrical at number 21 (1) 21 (being 20, April 1999).

Is this showing a pattern of the number of killings over the centuries?... Or what?... I really can't figure it out.

Then there is a "list of killings" that takes part of the main list bellow. Why?

And some more criptic wording at "21st century" "total (including February 14, 2018)"

From the commencement of the 21st century to the most recently occurring shooting (of February 14, 2018), the number of shootings is 206 +1 (this total is currently at a +1 value to the number shown : 60 + 146 shootings; including the most recent of February 14th, 2018, to represent the fact of the likelihood of the number listed in this article not including all the actual occurred number, and to represent the absolute certainty of the number simply being at a +1 value by probability of another shooting at some time during 2018).

Also the almost impossible to read extensive lists-in-prose of number of killings. - Nabla (talk) 14:08, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

"According to the Australian based Raising children network and Centre for Adolescent Health (also here)" - the destination from "also here" shows link to shootings. 23h112e (talk) 15:34, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

  • User:23h112e, I have no idea what you're doing in this article. This needs to be done in legible text. Drmies (talk) 20:38, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

The comments on the numerical patterns in the killings are nonsensical

The section of the article on "ranked killings" that includes the "patterns" in the killings is completely nonsensical and impossible to follow. The aspects that ARE possible to follow are idiotic, like "The number of incidents in 1910 was 19, and the number of deaths was 10". Given any sufficiently large table of numbers, one could find countless mathematical coincidences .Thus I believe that this section overall detracts from the useful, cogent information of the overall article. It is pretty obviously driven by conspiracy theory, so could more properly be relocated to an article regarding conspiracy theories about mass shootings.

98.210.74.104 (talk) 00:34, 18 February 2018 (UTC)Feb 17, 2018

Agreed. Came for information, left with numerology. No authoritative justifications or anything short of metaphysical bunk for the entire section. Fully supporting semi-restricted access to the page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.61.227.51 (talk) 23:41, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 23 February 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: undiscussed move reverted to previous title, List of school shootings in the United States, per WP:RMUM. Please note that this could have been done by filing a request at WP:RMTR. Any subsequent moves should be preceded by consensus achieved through talk page discussion. Dekimasuよ! 03:17, 23 February 2018 (UTC)


School shootings in the United States → List of school shootings in the United States – Article was renamed without discussion, and expanded from a list into a research article that doesn't meet our guidelines. I reverted back to an earlier version, which was, quite simply, a list, and the title should be matched accordingly. Drmies (talk) 02:26, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

I'm fine with the name either way but and have no objection to moving it back to "list" titling. It's certainly a listy format but the School shootings title also works for me. Happy to have a cogent article again on an important subject in either case. FloridaArmy (talk) 03:10, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Jackson Township, Ohio shooting needs to be updated

The kid who shot himself in the Jackson Memorial Middle school(02/20/2018) is listed as injured, but he has died. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:155:8401:F74E:413B:AA0A:A595:83B2 (talk) 09:19, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 February 2018

2603:3003:1D05:CC00:955B:EE79:36D:A172 (talk) 11:59, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

Location: Bart Township, PA Start date: October 2, 2006 Total number of deaths: 6 Non-fatal injuries: 5 Perpetrator: Charles Carl Roberts IV

Attack types: School shooting, Murder–suicide On October 2, 2006, a shooting occurred at the West Nickel Mines School, an Amish one-room schoolhouse in the Old Order Amish community of Nickel Mines, a village in Bart Township, Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. Gunman Charles Carl Roberts IV took hostages and shot eight out of ten girls (aged 6–13), killing five, before committing suicide in the schoolhouse.

Note: this is the West Nickel Mines School shooting, and is on the list. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 12:03, 23 February 2018 (UTC).

Semi-protected edit request on 23 February 2018

For the most recent shooting, clarify that the kid that shot himself was loading the gun and planning a school shooting and accidentally shot himself. 8.41.202.231 (talk) 14:33, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

 Not done for now: Please cite reliable sources which explicitly say that. As far as I'm aware, authorities have not even determined whether it was intentional or not. -- ChamithN (talk) 14:58, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 February 2018

November 23, 1992 Buffalo, New York A South Park High School student involved in a fight with another student, shot and injured a school security guard. 152.130.6.76 (talk) 14:17, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Also, make sure you provide reliable sources that back up whatever that you hope to add to the article. ChamithN (talk) 15:01, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

Benjamin Corbery / Cora Brubach

The article lists this shooting twice. Once in 1880 and once in 1890 (both the first in the table). Both are supported by sources. Which one should be kept? Primefac (talk) 15:47, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

No way to know unless there is additional sourcing, the current entry is at 1890 though after reversion. 23h112e (talk) 23:25, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

Going back

23h112e, there is so much poor writing in here, so much statistical content that is impossible to parse, so much apparent original research, so much content that does not seem to pertain, that I am standing on the verge of getting it on and reverting to this version, which is just before you began turning this article into what appears to be the notes for your research project. Drmies (talk) 20:52, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

  • Strongest possible support If there is anything wprth eadding it can be presented here. That is a much cleaner, more encyclopedic, more logical, more on topic version than what we have now. FloridaArmy (talk) 22:12, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Honestly I've been keeping tabs on the article since the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School shooting, and it just becomes more and more illegible and unintelligible. Feels like a lot of Original Research, and a lot of information that does not pertain to "school shootings in the united states", which implies where and when, and not who what or why. If im wrong, I mean that's why we discuss, right? If we cracked open a discussion of some of these subjects I'm positive there could be a solid article.Kyourinrin (talk) 22:32, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

I think Drmies, the thing you want (together with the other two users) won't be possible; at least because:

  • 1.the first source under the reference showing 5. "(and a number of other sources [5]" shows "A Brain Too Young for Good Judgment" "This week's shootings at Santana High School in California led quickly to now-familiar attempts to explain the seemingly unexplainable in terms of culture and circumstance:...Many other school shooters have been about the same age or even younger. And the brain of a 15-year-old is not mature..." is authored by Daniel R. Weinberger - director of the Clinical Brain Disorders Laboratory at the National Institutes of Health - this fact, as I've already identified for another conflicting user, indicates the content "Underlying causes" isn't Original Research - the information under this heading continues from this source (obviously).
  • 2. The statistics aren't original research, is obvious; please see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shootings_in_the_United_States#Number_killed_or_injured_(details_only_by_bullet,_or_indirectly_by_bullet_cause) shows - [39][40][41][42][43] sources for "In the decades the 1840s and 1850s" - et cetera.

Specifically with regards to:

  • "Wikipedia articles must not contain original research. The phrase "original research" (OR) is used on Wikipedia to refer to material—such as facts, allegations, and ideas—for which no reliable, published sources exist.[1 - By "exists", the community means that the reliable source must have been published and still exist—somewhere in the world, in any language, whether or not it is reachable online—even if no source is currently named in the article. Articles that currently name zero references of any type may be fully compliant with this policy—so long as there is a reasonable expectation that every bit of material is supported by a published, reliable source.] This includes any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not stated by the sources.

There are already sources showing, the statistical information is easily verifiable, I haven't drawn any conclusion; the content I've added is simply taken from the sources, that is all.

23h112e (talk) 23:08, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

For example, https://xtools.wmflabs.org/ec/en.wikipedia.org/Shaded0 has made 19,290 All projects edits, and didn't think the content was comment worthy - https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=School_shootings_in_the_United_States&diff=prev&oldid=826986945, this is additionally true of a number of other users, who see no problem (at least have expressed no criticism), and have edited the content disputed. 23h112e (talk) 23:28, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Reverting the article would remove these:

  • 23:33, 21 February 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+445)‎ . . School shootings in the United States ‎ (→‎1900s: + "March 17, 1909")
  • 23:11, 21 February 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+645)‎ . . School shootings in the United States ‎ (→‎1880s: + "June 6, 1882")
  • 22:51, 21 February 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+546)‎ . . School shootings in the United States ‎ (→‎1880s: addition of "April 24, 1880", therefore, "6" > "7" - injuries)

23h112e (talk) 23:33, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

  • Dear 23h112e, even your talk page posts are incomprehensible: I don't know what you are trying to say. What I do know is that I seem to have a consensus and you don't. If anyone is looking for original research, editorial commentary, and non-English, there's this paragraph: "From the commencement of the 21st century to the most recently occurring shooting (of February 20, 2018), the number of shootings is 208 +1 (this total is currently at a +1 value to the number shown : 60 + 146 shootings; including the most recent of February 14, 2018, to represent the fact of the likelihood of the number listed in this article not including all the actual occurred number, and to represent the absolute certainty of the number simply being at a +1 value by probability of another shooting at some time during 2018)."

    Now, I see you're also reverting edits by a number of other editors, including BayAreaWiki, Ajfweb, FloridaArmy, Lunamoonunit, and way back in the beginning Hmains, so I'm thinking we have OWNership issues here as well. Here is the thing, 23h112e: I see problems with English competence, WP:OR, WP:SYNTH, WP:OWN, and in general the article is just unintelligible. You also moved it, changing its contents. You're obviously trying to write an article (or an essay) on school shootings, and that's great, but this is not that article, and many of the things you are doing are just not in line with our guidelines. I am going to revert to that earlier version. If I were you, I would save all this material in a sandbox, so you can work on it and do something else with it, something that does not interfere with this highly-viewed and important article. And I am going to consult WP:RM and see about moving this back to a list article, since we will have this again as a list. Drmies (talk) 02:23, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

To any interested users; the current returns is all the pre-reverted content I'm intending to re-add. 23h112e (talk) 00:13, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 February 2018

In 1971 the janitor at the Grove elementary school in Grove Oklahoma, now known as T.J. Melton Elementary in his remembrance, shot and killed the principal T.J. Melton. 38.133.225.8 (talk) 06:15, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

 Not done. No source, and that would be a workplace killing anyway, per the article lead. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 13:47, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

Portland CT, Dec 10, 1985

This needs to have a minor correction. There were 2 injuries in addition to the 1 fatality. The school secretary was shot and wounded, and the principal Donald Rixon suffered severe facial lacerations due to the shooter firing through a window. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Plantos (talk • contribs) 18:39, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

 Done. 23h112e (talk) 23:07, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 February 2018

May 20, 1988--Winnetka, IL, Hubbard Woods Elementary School, 5 injured, one killed 2602:306:CD91:450:95DF:B25A:5C08:D89B (talk) 18:28, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

no Unnecessary. It's already there. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 18:30, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

contested content

Hi, your entry of 1905 for KY actually resulted in 1 fatality (listed as 0) the teacher only lived for 30 minutes, but did indeed perish (primary source cited). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.171.166.186 (talk) 11:45, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

@Deacon Vorbis and Drmies: The content was acceptable, instead the content cannot be accepted, but there doesn't seem to be a reason. I created List of school massacres in the United States from the reverted content, but how the content is as problematic. The content isn't problematic, "school shooting" is not the same as "school massacres" - and the links are inadmissable because ... - "{template doc}" does not indicate any reason for content in an encyclopedia to be unacceptable.

See also: School shooting § United States, List of school-related attacks, Child mortality in the United States, and List of school massacres in the United States

23h112e (talk) 21:07, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

I cannot understand you. I'll just add that the documentation for {{See also}} (which you can also find by searching for Template:See also) says, "This template is used to create hatnotes to point to a small number of other related titles at the top of article sections according to Wikipedia:Layout." Your use of {{See also}} contradicted this. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 22:01, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 February 2018

siema koledzy z ameryki jak tam strzelaniny w szkole 213.76.36.118 (talk) 12:05, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

 Not done. Bork. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 12:42, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

Edit request: Cleveland Elementary School shooting January 29, 1979, at a public elementary school in San Diego, California.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Elementary_School_shooting_(San_Diego) There are 41 references in the footnotes of that Wikipedia article.

Referenced in popular culture in the song "I don't like Mondays" by the Boomtown Rats https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Don%27t_Like_Mondays

From the first article: The principal and a custodian were killed; eight children and a police officer were injured. A 16-year-old girl, Brenda Spencer, who lived in a house across the street from the school, was convicted of the shootings.

Date: January 29, 1979 Location: San Diego, California Deaths: 2 Injuries: 9 Description: 16 year-old Brenda Spencer who lived across the street began shoot children waiting for the elementary school gates to open. The principal and custodian were killed trying to help the children. She barricaded herself in her home for several hours after the shooting. A journalist contacted her by telephone during the siege and asked her why she did it. She replied, "I don't like Mondays. This livens up the day."

[Optionally you might want to include these sentences: "This was the inspiration for the song "I Don't Like Mondays," written by Bob Geldof for his band the Boomtown Rats, which was released later that year." "A rare instance of a female school shooter."]

Footnotes should include the articles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Elementary_School_shooting_(San_Diego) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Don%27t_Like_Mondays — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.71.169.56 (talk) 11:41, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

Umm, it's already in the list here. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 12:45, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 February 2018

In the following line: 14-year-old student, Elizabeth Catherine Bush, wounded fellow student Kimberly Marchese in the cafeteria of Bishop Neumann High School; she had been frequently teased and suffered from

please change "frequently teased" to "frequently bullied"

Thank you. NJNK (talk) 22:42, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 23:31, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
In fact, the source used didn't even support what was there, so I trimmed it down to something more basic. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 23:37, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 March 2018

2/28/18 a firearm was discharged at school by a teacher, Randal Davidson, at Georgia High School after he barricaded himself and refused to exit. No one was injured by Davidson but one student did sustain an ankle injury while exiting the building. Source: http://time.com/5179477/dalton-high-school-shooting/ https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/28/us/georgia-dalton-high-school-teacher-gunfire/index.html http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/dalton-high-school-on-lockdown-police-responding-to-shots-fired-call/708623182 Printer16 (talk) 10:54, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

As is, I think the wording here runs afoul of WP:BLPCRIME. I'd lean toward not including this (yet), but would be happy if someone else could weigh in. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 13:45, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
Agreed. No one was injured by gun fire, and he wasn't shooting at anyone. I would wait. If added in the near future, we could consider omitting the teacher's name. WP:BLPCRIME seems to urge caution. Tribe of Tiger Let's Purrfect! 14:18, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
Closing {{edit semi-protected}} as  Not done for now: per above. —KuyaBriBriTalk 15:00, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Move to School shootings in the United States

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. TonyBallioni (talk) 17:05, 2 March 2018 (UTC)


List of school shootings in the United States → School shootings in the United States – Anyone have any objections? --Pmsyyz (talk) 15:22, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

  • Objection. This is a list, has always been a list and should remain a list. If warranted, a different article should be created named School shootings in the United States that would contain narrative content. Hmains (talk) 20:24, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
  • Oppose per Hmains. -- ChamithN (talk) 22:48, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
  • Oppose This is a list. School shootings is a separate article. Mixing the two is a disservice to the reader who wants to see a "list". Now text has been re-added, and the list is a mess, again.Tribe of Tiger Let's Purrfect! 11:03, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
The "younger age" text should be placed under Profiling in the School shootings article. Tribe of Tiger Let's Purrfect! 11:35, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
  • Yes, lots of people have objections, including me. You didn't guess that from looking over this talk page, Pmsyyz? Drmies (talk) 13:53, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

  • Support but since Hmains has already identified, there might be an article additionally "School shootings in the United States" I think it would be an acceptable situation if "School shootings in the United States" were created separately and linked to the head of the page, the statistical content reverted has sources, as I took the information from the List, therefore it is inevitable the content will eventually be re-returned, when every known shooting in history is added.

    "This is a list", (is a statement of fact) "has always been a list" (is true is a fact) and should remain a list - is not a reason to affirm or object - the reason is , why it should remain a list, why it is better as a list than not a list - Hmains reponse is just a re-iteration of Hmains opinion, to oppose.

    "Now text has been re-added, and the list is a mess" (but the list isn't a mess, it is exactly the same as at reversion, + any new additions, the non-list content additions haven't changed the list at all; is a defined list, no-one has any intention of making the list anything other than as it is defined.

    "School shootings is a separate article. Mixing the two is a disservice to the reader who wants to see a "list"." I think there is some merit to maintaining the list independently as a document, as it allows people to view the article and think there own personal thoughts on the situations described and the implications to living in the United States, without having to look at opinion, but wikipedia as an encyclopedia is not a nurse-maid to the emotions of readers, there is sourcing available to create non-list content, as is already included. The content might just be added to "School-shootings" as is already identified, but the sources don't actually relate directly to a global situation, they were made by people living in the United States, and Europe (England) and using data to provide conclusions that are true specifically for those areas of the world. Since the United States is one of the only countries to have legally owned firearms, there is a reason to have content only about the United States situation included as an article. 23h112e (talk) 14:52, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

  • WP:RM#CM - "The move is potentially controversial if any of the following apply: Someone could reasonably disagree with the move." I think I've provided reason, while the opposing users haven't, other than to express there personal opinions and preferences, these not being reasons. 23h112e (talk) 15:02, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
    • 23h112e, kindly stop spouting nonsense. Your statement is "reason" (a mass noun, I suppose) but that of all the others is "personal opinion"? OMG. What nurse maids have to do with anything is not my concern, just another figment of your imagination. It would be very helpful if you kept your flights of fancy to a minimum, if you would proofread for punctuation, and if you tried to steer clear of run-on sentences. You are correct in one thing: this list doesn't necessarily have to remain a list, but if we turn this into an article in the way in which you did it, we're not going to make any progress at all. Drmies (talk) 19:53, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
  • Objection. The reason to leave it as a list in its own location is that is answers searches for the information. If someone is looking for causes of school shootings they would search for 'causes of school shootings', if the social impact of school shootings is sought the the search would be for that, and so on. Leave this alone. It's important that the information be presented this way without further dialogue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Phillipedia (talk • contribs) 18:48, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
"The United States has the highest number of School shootings Foxman, Simone. "How school killings in the US stack up against 36 other countries put together".Reserved., . All Rights (December 14, 2012). "Interactive: School shootings around the world since 1996".
  • Oppose The article is quite clearly a list and although it contains commentary on each shooting it is not an article about the issue or topic of school shootings. Shadow007 (talk) 14:57, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

List of school massacres in the United States

@C. W. Gilmore, Icewhiz, Krishna Chaitanya Velaga, Deacon Vorbis, Lepricavark, Ajf773, Drmies, Tribe of Tiger, Pmsyyz, Hmains, Rkang101, ChamithN, Dekimasu, and Nabla:

The FBI obviously state a mass-murder (a massacre), is 3 killed, not to include the perpetrator. This indicates there is an actual defined occurence, this being, a massacre. A shooting, simply indicates a firearm was discharged.

List of school massacres was deleted here and here, then the same content as an article deleted and made a redirect. 23h112e (talk) 20:29, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Not obvious so lets start here as a mass-murder is not a massacre. The terms are different, if not related. C. W. Gilmore (talk) 20:32, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
My 2 cents, as I expressed on the massacre AfD, is that this list should also contain attacks using weapons other than guns (e.g. non-shootings) - otherwise, a separate massacre list (which would quite similar to this list, with some additions) would merit creation/splitting.Icewhiz (talk) 20:37, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
This list already states it excludes bombings, so killings with other weapons may also be excluded, but for the life of me, I can't remember the lat mass killing in the USA with a pocket knife. C. W. Gilmore (talk) 20:42, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
We just deleted and redirected a list of massacres back here on the assumption this article would cover them. There might have been a knifing massacre (something that has occured in other countries, but obviously not the main MO in the US....).Icewhiz (talk) 20:47, 5 March 2018 (UTC) e.g. this [2] mass stabbing (no fatalities).Icewhiz (talk) 20:54, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
I believe (as a still-uninvolved editor, I think), that this is a misreading of the AfD as a whole, although it represents your comments there accurately. Several people at the AfD indicated that the content should not be readded here, but rather that it was only created in a different place because consensus was against its inclusion here. Unfortunately, this may be a case where polite references to content forks occluded the real issue at hand, the belief that the new article was a WP:POVFORK. Dekimasuよ! 20:51, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
The lack of distinguishing to the severity of the shooting occurrence is the reason to list the mass shootings. For example, an article, listing "Rich people" - but doesn't show the actual numerical wealth of the people, or doesn't provide a list of the "10 richest people", is time-consuming for people who want to know the "10 richest" (for example) or "The shootings where the most were killed". This is indicated by the fact of the FBI identifying a mass-killing at all, from a murder, (or "a discharge of a firearm", where no-one was injured or killed). 23h112e (talk) 20:56, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
The nature of the problem is to know the facts of the article "School shootings" if no discretion between "shooting - where no-one was killed or injured" and a "shooting - where 17 people or 32 people died" is made, then this doesn't really indicate the application of intelligence to the problem of : defining shooting, and separately defining murder. The List doesn't even indicate murder. To not distinguish between: shooting, murder, and mass-murder is to stunt the growth of the article. 23h112e (talk) 21:03, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
So you include a way to indicate how severe the shooting was, either by number of victims at each entry or some other indicator, would be my thought. C. W. Gilmore (talk) 21:11, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
I think there isn't anyone who has actually provided a reason why there shouldn't be a list of mass-shootings included in the article currently. I'm presuming the the reason is, a list of mass-killings is superfluous, or unnecessary, but I don't know how deleting the content is correct in policy. I think policy probably supports returning the content "mass-shootings" to the "List". 23h112e (talk) 21:20, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
Wikipedia:PRESERVE and Wikipedia:IMPERFECT indicates reasons to keep the content, Wikipedia:CANTFIX reasons to delete. 23h112e (talk) 21:37, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
Wikipedia:CANTFIX doesn't actually show anything applicable to the "mass-killings" content, therefore policy supports returning the content via Wikipedia:PRESERVE and Wikipedia:IMPERFECT, unless there is any other policy or any other user has a contrary position to give, or reason to give to cause the "mass-killings" content to not be re-added. 23h112e (talk) 21:42, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

The redirect is already done, now is the time to work within the limits set, not re-argue what is too late to change. Focus on making this work, or it will go no where... C. W. Gilmore (talk) 21:49, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

"The redirect is already done" is not a reason to not include the "mass-killings" content in the "List" article, as I already indicated at the first section for this Talk reverted subsequently by Deacon Vorbis. 23h112e (talk) 22:06, 5 March 2018 (UTC)


  • @ Icewhiz, in a country like the USA where there are more guns in circulation then there are people in the country and laws on legal purchases are so open; it is not hard to see that mass killings are most often the result of guns with schools being no exception. Any mass killings by other means are so exceptional that each desires it's own article, such as bombing, car attacks, and the like, from what we see. Firearms and the associated violence is so ubiquitous that it is easier to do as a list, considering there has been one, about every other day in the USA, in just the few months of this year. C. W. Gilmore (talk) 23:10, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
    • Actually, if it is "ubiquitous", and happens "about every other day", should we even list them all? It is not like a sports event, where in order to show a competition's development we better list all match scores. Why do we list daily events?... Say, car crashes kill too, they also show up on the news, should we list them? Surely not because they are way too common. So, how common is too common? - Nabla (talk) 12:12, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
    Clearly guns are the primary (and then some) method in the US - say 99% (of my cuff guesstimate) of notable events - making the POVFORK arguement compelling at AfD. However, such a view should lead to inclusion here of non-gun events (above some threshold of notability).Icewhiz (talk) 23:16, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
As these 2016 numbers show [3], this is common; the uncommon school killings are notable enough to desire their own article or section in an article. C. W. Gilmore (talk) 23:28, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 March 2018

In the row for March 12, 1951, it says number of deaths 1. Change number of deaths from 1 to 2. It says, "Professor W.E. Sweatt, superintendent and teacher at the Alexander School, was killed by students, 16-year-old Billy Ray Powell, and 19-year-old Hugh Justice, whom he had reprimanded" add the boys fled and also shot Wade Johnson, 15, for telling on them about the rule infraction. --- This information is verifiable by the article linked to in The Winona Republican-Herald. 69.113.117.35 (talk) 02:12, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

 Done Gulumeemee (talk) 03:13, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 March 2018

For the February 9, 1905 shooting description please replace "When Ingrim went after Hildreth with an axe, Hildreth shot him in the stomach." with "School trustee, William Ingrim later told others that Elmer was involved in the physical encounter. Unjustly accused, Hildreth found Mr Ingrim requesting he give an accurate accounting to the community. Trustee Ingram, in anger struck Hildreth to the ground, blooding his face, when Hildreth arose Ingrim went after him with an axe. Hildreth ordered him to stop, but Ingrim continued towards him. Hildreth shot him in the stomach." 24.33.73.136 (talk) 16:39, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. I would also note that there are multiple grammatical problems with your proposed text. RivertorchFIREWATER 16:45, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 March 2018

Missing shooting death at a school:

Oct. 13, 2008 Live Oaks, TX 1 dead, 0 injured Devin Zimmerman, age 37, was shot to death by his coworker, Alan Godin, at Northeast Lakeview College. Both men were librarians on staff but Mr. Zimmerman had recently been promoted and Mr. Godin was upset at having been passed over. Godin walked into the library with his glock and wearing ear protection to fatally shoot Mr. Zimmerman five times in front of students and staff. Godin was sentenced to 25 years in prison. Mr. Zimmerman's wife learned she was pregnant with their first child one week after his death. https://americanlibrariesmagazine.org/gunman-kills-fellow-librarian-at-texas-college/ https://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/Workplace-violence-focus-of-upcoming-trial-840521.php 174.48.59.30 (talk) 18:02, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: Please read the criteria for inclusion at the top of this list: Mass shootings by staff of schools that involve only other employees are covered at workplace killings. The workplace killings article is not protected. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 21:45, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 March 2018

- 2601:681:4C04:5A20:60A6:4743:913A:A8E4 (talk) 08:53, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

 Done –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 12:15, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

Sorting 2010s

Sorting the 2010s by death in either ascending or descending order does not properly sort the table. The resulting ascending order ends up in an order similar to the following: 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10. 98.168.151.26 (talk) 00:28, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

This seems to be due to some row entries using a hidden sort key, while some not (in a deprecated way according to Help:Sorting. Really, none of them should, but all the other tables in this list are using it. With a quick test, it seems to work fine simply removing the hidden keys, but it will be a bit of a pain to fix this all. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 03:39, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
 Fixed. I've gone ahead and just stripped out all the extraneous stuff that didn't need to be there relating to sorting, and it should be working now. It's possible I missed some weirdness in earlier tables, so if anyone sees anything, you can either fix that up, or let me know. If anyone needs to add any new entries which include a value that's not a pure number (e.g. 1+ or ?), then you must add a sort key before it: data-sort-value="1"|1+ or data-sort-value="0"|?. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 13:59, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 March 2018

please change "theeats" to "threats" 83.28.79.252 (talk) 17:11, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

 Done - Thanks for pointing that out - Arjayay (talk) 17:25, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Domestic violence that isn't a murder/suicide?

The list explicitly excludes domestic violence (or family related) murder/suicides, but are domestic violence-related murders appropriate for this list? If they are, that would be a very strange distinction to make. Natureium (talk) 19:26, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 March 2018

change

Audra D. S. Burch; Patricia Mazzei (14 February 2018). "Florida School Shooting: 'No Words' as 17 Die in a Barrage of Bullets". New York Times. Retrieved 15 February 2018.

to

Audra D. S. Burch; Patricia Mazzei (14 February 2018). "Death Toll Is at 17 and Could Rise in Shooting". New York Times. Retrieved 15 February 2018.

Although the story came from the New York Times News Service, the ‘No Words’ title is attributed to this similar article in The Boston Globe 82.30.110.20 (talk) 04:20, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

 Done Spintendo      08:10, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

Correction to shooting in my hometown

The shooting in April 2013 that is listed in Dublin, VA, actually occurred in Christiansburg, VA. Neil Maginnis went to the New River Community College satellite campus in the New River Valley Mall in Christiansburg. The main campus is in Dublin, but he was at the satellite campus. I can provide links if necessary. Staceyrenee17 (talk) 05:09, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

 Done @Staceyrenee17: No need for additional sources, it was right there in the source we already had! Thanks for pointing this out. Regards, Tribe of Tiger Let's Purrfect! 10:26, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 March 2018

I would like to expand the charts to include a column with the education level of the school involved in the shooting. This would make it easier to sort for people looking for information about preschools, elementary schools, middle schools, high schools, and college. SpacePirate42 (talk) 01:19, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. JTP (talk • contribs) 03:27, 18 March 2018 (UTC)
@Deacon Vorbis: What are your thoughts on @SpacePirate42:'s idea? I think this would be a very helpful addition. I am curious abut seeing the results. We wouldn't need to do all the centuries, the 2000s would probably be the most useful. Thanks, Tribe of Tiger Let's Purrfect! 10:10, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
@Tribe of Tiger: No strong feelings really, but some care would be needed. What counts as varying levels isn't always the same. Where I went to school, for example, it was up to 6th grade for elementary school and 7th-8th for junior high school; "middle school" didn't even exist. While other places use up to 5th for elementary and then 6th-8th for middle. Moreover, I went to a "secondary school", which was a combo 7th-12th all in one building. So I'm not sure exactly what categories should be used here. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 12:36, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

Ignoring inclusion criteria

@Deacon Vorbis: To directly quote: "Mass shootings by staff of schools that involve only other employees are covered at workplace killings." This means they are not appropriate for this list. Stop reverting my removal of the inappropriate entry. Natureium (talk) 19:31, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

I've had no warnings about POV pushing here, nor do I have much of a POV to push. As I indicated in the edit summary, the entry you wanted to remove isn't a mass shooting, so it's not excluded here. Moreover, the language is simply to indicate that certain incidents will be missing here because they fall primarily under the list at List of rampage killers (workplace killings). Any entries that don't qualify over there can still be listed here unless there's some other specific reason they don't qualify here. Your removal of the entry is inappropriate unless you change the actual inclusion criteria. I don't particularly care if it gets changed or not, but it should probably be discussed first. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 19:36, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
That is not at all what it says. If it doesn't fit the inclusion criteria for either list, it is deleted. That's how lists on WP work. Some things just are not relevant. I don't know why you are talking about mass shootings. Natureium (talk) 19:38, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
"Mass shootings by staff of schools that involve only other employees are covered at workplace killings." This wasn't a mass shooting by staff involving only staff, therefore it's not excluded (either by that wording, or any other exclusions listed). –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 19:45, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
Again, just because it doesn't fit there doesn't mean it fits here. Natureium (talk) 14:18, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

Tutorial on inclusion criteria

Inclusion is defined by things that fit the inclusion criteria AND do not fit the exclusion criteria. Taken directly from the article itself: Natureium (talk) 19:43, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Things included Things excluded
school shooting incidents that occurred on the campuses of K-12 public schools and private schools, colleges and universities incidents that occurred during wars or police actions
incidents of shootings on a school bus murder-suicides by rejected suitors or estranged spouses
suicides or suicide attempts
shootings by staff of schools that involve only other employees
bombings

Semi-protected edit request on 25 March 2018

March 2 shooting - I think you mean spring break, not spring beak. 64.222.104.21 (talk) 20:08, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

 Done. Thanks. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 20:45, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 April 2018

Miami, Florida. 2 Dead *Unknown* Injured. Nomoneyglantis (talk) 01:10, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

 Not done. Please be more specific. There are multiple entries for Miami, and it's unclear what you want changed. Also, please provide a source for your request (if using the one already listed because the entry doesn't accurately reflect it, you can just say so). –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 01:43, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 April 2018

The date of the Dillard High School shooting in Fort Lauderdale, Fla., should be corrected to November 12, 2008. L shelt13 (talk) 17:33, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

 Done with thanks, NiciVampireHeart 17:40, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 April 2018

On the listing of March 9th, 2010, there is only one death accounted for. According to a CNN report from that day, the suspect- Nathaniel Brown- shot himself as well as killing Larry Wallington, and died upon arrival to the hospital. http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/09/ohio.state.shooting/index.html 66.244.109.85 (talk) 02:53, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. L293D (☎ • ✎) 14:29, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 April 2018

Here is another: http://articles.latimes.com/2006/jun/29/local/me-sanberdo29 35.129.65.240 (talk) 18:16, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 18:21, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

Rename Article

There are frequently cited statistics that there have been x "school shootings" in the United States each year. I believe this entire article is being sourced from a gun control group in charge of creating such statistics. However, the definition used here betrays the label "school shooting." I mean, when the average person hears the words school shooting they imagine something similar to Sandy Hook or Columbine. I think an important element of a school shooting at the very least is a gunman with an intent to fire a gun. Surprisingly a lot of these articles lack just that.

This article should be renamed "gunfire incidents on school grounds." That or it should be removed. Most incidents are just regular murders/attempted murders. The school factor is just incidental. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.116.59.59 (talk) 13:21, 28 April 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 May 2018

Lithia Springs High School Shooting- August 17th 2017 - Officials with Douglas County Schools said the teacher shot himself with a handgun around 7:15 a.m. Thursday while alone in the office of his classroom. At a news conference after the incident, authorities said there were no students or staff members present when the shooting took place. 2601:CB:0:1B44:4F3:472D:F706:2BF6 (talk) 17:28, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: See the inclusion criteria at the beginning of the article, specifically: It excludes ...suicides or suicide attempts involving only one person. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 17:32, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 2 May 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: consensus not to move the page as proposed at this time, per the discussion below, although it appears there may be some support for altering the scope of the article or splitting the page in some fashion. Dekimasuよ! 18:05, 8 May 2018 (UTC)


List of school shootings in the United States → List of school related gunfire incidents in the United States – The article is a list of "incidents in which a firearm was discharged at a school infrastructure." This definition is taken out of the mouths of gun control group "Everytown for Gun Safety." Their definition is "any time a firearm discharges a live round inside a school building or on a school campus or grounds." A more neutral source, Britannica defines a school shooting as "School shooting, an event in which a student at an educational facility—namely, elementary, middle, junior, and high schools as well as colleges and universities—shoots and injures or kills at least one other student or faculty member at school." The article title is misleading as it does not define what the everyday person or a dictionary would consider a "school shooting". Maxlysle (talk) 22:03, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

  • Oppose I think a list of school shootings is notable on its own. A better idea would be to move any incidents that did not result in injury into a different list rather than moving this one to accommodate the outliers where nobody was harmed.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 22:44, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Oppose. I agree with the above comment that splitting the article would be preferable. Rreagan007 (talk) 22:48, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Oppose move with a potential split, per above. ONR (talk) 22:52, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Oppose, and if it were allowed, I'd say it in much stronger terms.. This is recentism at its worst. I'm in my 60s and I grew up in the suburbs of what was then the second largest city in the country. Gunshots in and around schools were a near daily occurrence. Both Chicago and Gary, Indiana installed metal detectors in some schools in the mid-60s. It was gang violence back then, not psychos. Guns are and always have been a part of the fabric of life in the US. Violence has been part of life in the inner cities since at least 1900. Any list covering "gunshots in schools" would be doomed to remaining woefully incomplete and hence WP:RECENT. To me, this reeks of a politically inspired move by the MSD movement. John from Idegon (talk) 16:15, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Trim/Split. I'd be happy with narrowing the scope of this list. The proposer's concern might be valid, but they should check when this article adopted its (approximate) inclusion criteria, and when Everytown published theirs. John's objection above doesn't make any sense; this might be politically motivated, but Everytown's definition is too. Aiming for a more neutral, accurate title is always a good thing. On the other hand, Britannica's definition is too narrow; we don't want to only list those shootings committed by students. Shootings by faculty or those unaffiliated with the school would make sense to include as well. But I'd certainly be okay with eliminating any entries that didn't involve injuries or deaths to keep in line with a plainer notion of "school shooting". –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 17:46, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
    And after double checking, there aren't many entries on this list that have no injuries or deaths. It might make most sense to just limit the inclusion criteria a bit and eliminate those. I don't think there's enough for a separate list for just those. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 17:50, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
    Support trimming inclusion criteria. We don't need a list of times when something almost happened. Natureium (talk) 18:35, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Oppose proposing article moves for no reason other than not liking the POV of a group that uses similar terms is functionally equivalent to proposing an article move for no reason at all. The proposed new name is convoluted, harder to find, and serves readers poorly at best. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 19:07, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Oppose. I think there should be no doubt over the number of school shootings, as they are called in any sane conversation, and whether they are officially classed as such — Preceding unsigned comment added by SlipperyAvocado (talk • contribs) 16:50, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Semi-protected edit request on 8 May 2018

Citation of the information source (the editor may want to archive the article):

Reference: [2]

In the appropriate table at the appropriate location, add the following:

November 5, 1963, Randy Schulz shot Augie Holmquist hitting him three times at Thomas Jefferson Senior High School, Cedar Rapids, Iowa.

Background information.

[3]

At the time the school the school was known as a senior high school as what are middle schools today (2018) were known in Cedar Rapids as Junior High Schools. The grade breakdown was K-6 grade or primary school, 7-9 junior high school and 10-12 senior high school.

Although I was a student at Jefferson at the time, the news generally was not known until it was published in the Cedar Rapids Gazette. NumberRI (talk) 20:55, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

 Done Fascinating case. I've added it to the table, along with a sourced citation. .spintendo⋅⋅) 06:49, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ {{cite news}}: Empty citation (help)
  2. ^ https://crpubliclibrary.newspaperarchive.com/cedar-rapids-gazette/1963-11-30/page-2 column 6/8 from left below middle of page.
  3. ^ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_High_School_(Cedar_Rapids,_Iowa)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 May 2018

blank. Nothing to act on. Resubmit with text and references if desired. John from Idegon (talk) 08:05, 13 May 2018 (UTC) (non-admin closure)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

- 76.119.11.95 (talk) 03:40, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 11 May 2018

Palmdale High School Shooting. 14 y/o handgun shooting, dispute between two students. 1 injury. CITATION/SOURCE: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-palmdale-high-school-shooting-20180511-story.html


Palmdale High School Shooting 50.226.153.170 (talk) 20:27, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. JTP (talk • contribs) 00:47, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 May 2018

The following is missing from the list...

Brentwood East Junior High School, Brentwood, New York

Monday, May 16, 1983

Robert O. Wickes graduated from Brentwood High School in 1977. He works at Brentwood East on New York's Long Island as a substitute teacher's aide. On Wednesday, May 4, Luis Burgos, a 15-year-old student, was talking in class when Robert ordered him to stop talking and stand up. Luis refused. Robert then went to the boy's desk, pulled it away from him and struck Luis. Luis began to fight back by throwing punches. Because of this fight, Robert, 24, was dismissed from his job. Luis was suspended for twelve days. Robert sought revenge on Luis and the school and executed his plan today. He dressed in Army fatigues and took a .22-caliber semi-automatic Ruger rifle and 100 rounds with him when he returned to Brentwood East this afternoon. He entered Room 201, a second-floor ninth-grade social studies classroom, ordered the teacher out and ordered the 18 students to lie on the floor. He told them, "I'm not leaving here alive, you kids messed up my career." This was shortly after 1:00. In the room was Luis, returning to school for the first time since the fight. "You know me," Robert said to Luis. He then fired the rifle at him but missed the boy as he crouched near a window. Robert approached Luis and fired two more shots. Luis was struck in the stomach and one of his fingers. He was having difficulties breathing. Fellow student Wilfred Mercado noticed this and said to Robert, "I'm taking him out." Robert let the two boys leave the classroom. Principal William Howland, 47, looked into the classroom from the door's window. Robert saw this and shot him as well. William was struck in the cheek. Both Luis and William were taken to Southside Hospital for treatment of gunshot wounds. A dozen of the students feigned and induced nausea; Robert released them. The remaining students were released periodically throughout the afternoon and evening. He did this after a local radio station played some of his favorite tunes ("Penny Lane" from the Beatles, "Angie" from the Rolling Stones" and "Lonely People" from America) and read a statement from him. He made no threats but fired four times down the hall to keep police at bay. Bryan Lopez, 14, was Robert's last hostage and his liaison with the police, ferrying messages, food and a transistor radio from them to Robert. Bryan witnessed the end of his captivity when Robert shot himself in the right temple at 10:15 p.m. The hostage crisis lasted nine hours. Robert was rushed to Southside Hospital in Bay Shore where he died at 11:41 p.m. Brentwood East has roughly 980 students and is in one of the poorest school districts on Long Island. The school canceled classes for two days and reopened on Thursday, May 19 with seventh period, the same period in which classes were interrupted.

Source: New York Times - Hostages at L.I. School are Freed, and Gunman then Kills Himself; New York Times - L.I. School Opens 2 Days After Siege; New York Times - How Hostage Team Passed the Test 67.242.13.207 (talk) 13:01, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. JTP (talk • contribs) 00:47, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

entries need reviewing for list criteria

We need to remove from the list for entries which clearly do not meet the list criteria. I'm not familiar with this list, but after the above thread I took a look, and even a quick skim found several entries that do not meet the list criteria. We have events that did not happen at schools or on school trips (November 19, 1914), staff-on-staff mass shootings (August 4, 1919 and May 6, 1940). and murder suicide by an estranged spouse (February 2, 1947). There are also some somewhat questionable entries (shootings at school board meetings, etc). Meters (talk) 18:46, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

While I was thinking about this an IP was making similar observations about the inclusion criteria and list contents, but by changing the inclusion criteria [4]. I've undone the edit since I think that is a significant change that needs consensus. I don't know that we should change the inclusion criteria to match what had been included in the list rather than pruning the list to what is supposed to be included. Meters (talk) 19:04, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

New article: List of school MASS shootings in the United States

The current article is very long and unwieldy.

The new article, List of school mass shootings in the United States, ONLY include school mass shootings.

Since the overwhelming majority of school shooting are not mass shooting, excluding those make the new article much shorter and tidier.

According to the Congressional Research Service, mass shootings are defined as "a multiple homicide incident in which four or more victims are murdered with firearms, within one event, and in one or more locations in close proximity" ---- TheHoax (talk) 04:10, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

You have already added this category to several articles without getting a consensus for it. There is a need not to create similar or overlapping categories and I'm not sure if this one is necessary.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 05:13, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
There need not be a consensus for everything. TheHoax (talk) 05:16, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
Let's get some input from other editors. The categories are largely similar and overlapping.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 05:21, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
I don't see a need for the distinction between incidents in which one, two, or three were killed and those in which four or more were killed. Meters (talk) 05:25, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
The whole point of the new article is that it won't be as long and unwieldy as this article. The distinction is between mass-shootings and those that are not mass-shootings. The overwhelming majority of school shootings are not mass shootings. The terminology of mass shooting is as defined by the Congressional Research Service. TheHoax (talk) 05:29, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
I understand the difference, as should be obvious from what I wrote. As I said, I don't see a need for the fork, but we'll let others comment. I've left a pointer to this discussion on Talk:List of school mass shootings in the United States Meters (talk) 05:35, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
One additional thing I want to mention is that the new article is less than one-tenth the size of the current article. TheHoax (talk) 05:40, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Alternatively, and perhaps less contentious, start a new article named 'List of school shootings in the United States in the 21st century' or 'List of 21st century school shootings in the United States' and remove the 21st century items from this article. Hmains (talk) 15:45, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
Agreed, splitting by date makes more sense than number of casualties. –dlthewave ☎ 16:24, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
A lot of people want to compare school mass shootings in the 20th century to those in the 21th century. For example, people like to talk about Columbine as the school mass shooting that set the current trend. If you were to separate by date (which doesn't make much sense to me), Columbine shooting and Stoneman Douglas shooting would be on different pages and make comparison even more tedious. TheHoax (talk) 19:46, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
Another thing I want to point out: the Columbine mass shooting (which happened in the 20th century) is widely considered to the first modern school mass shooting. It has more in common with the Stoneman Douglas shooting and other mass school shootings in the 21th century than it does with school mass shootings that happened earlier in the 20 century. Separating school shootings by century doesn't make much sense since those are just arbitrary numbers. TheHoax (talk) 20:06, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
I agree. Dividing by year is arbitrary in this case because of the large variation in individual cases. Some on this list have 0 victims and some have 20+. Those are very different types of incidents. Natureium (talk) 14:04, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
Proposal Why not just revise this list to only include mass shootings? We aren't needing to maintain an extensive list of every time a weapon was discharged at a school. Natureium (talk) 14:04, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
I agree with this. TheHoax (talk) 20:48, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
TheHoax Can you provide a citation for your claim that according to the Congressional Research Service "mass shootings" are defined as you stated? Thinker78 (talk) 20:13, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
There seems to be lot of information on these. Do we really need the convictions and prison sentences mentioned? They are not consistent, only mentioned on some but not on others who received prison sentences. Some of the sentences mentioned are based on old news articles and some shooters have since recieved new sentences.Bjoh249 (talk) 07:18, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Proposed split 21 May 2018

I propose that this page be split into one page per century (List of school shootings in the United States in the 21st century, etc.) and just have the major shootings on here, as this page is way too long (~400 KB).  Nixinova  T  C  06:41, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Oppose. Dividing by century is far less helpful than just removing the minor incidents. It would be more reasonable to just include mass shootings. Natureium (talk) 14:05, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
Oppose The Columbine mass shooting (which happened in the 20th century) is widely considered to the first modern school mass shooting. It has more in common with the Stoneman Douglas shooting and other mass school shootings in the 21th century than it does with school mass shootings that happened earlier in the 20 century. Separating school shootings by century doesn't make much sense since those are just arbitrary numbers TheHoax (talk) 22:08, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
Oppose It doesn't make much sense to fork the categories. Overall, there is a need to keep the categories to a sensible minimum. Most people think "school shooting", not "20th century school shooting" or "20th century school shooting where more than four people were killed".--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 05:38, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
Oppose I don't know that we need a formal close on this, but there seems to be no support for this fork other than by the OP, and this has been open for three months. Meters (talk) 05:22, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

"This list is incomplete, you can help by expanding it"

Seriously? Even though the intentions of the template are harmless and it would be considered to be completely so in any other article, it appears somewhat offensive in an article like this. Is it possible to make a different one saying e. g. "you can help by adding more information" etc? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.164.205.41 (talk) 18:44, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

I agree that it is inappropriate for this article and should be taken down. But we can't take it down until we have a "consensus", so others need to show support for any change to happen too. Adervae (talk) 19:57, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
If it's intended to be harmless, then it's perfectly fine. There is no need for a change. Minty fresh like mmmm (talk) 21:23, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
Frankly, your feelings about this are irrelevant, as are mine. Do you have any reason based in policy or sources to change it? If course it's intended to be harmless. To suggest otherwise is simply silly. If someone is going to be triggered to commit s henious crime by words printed on this page, then certainly something IRL would also trigger them. This is being pushed by primarily one editor and he's been told no at least five times. It's approaching trolling. John from Idegon (talk) 22:11, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
The reason is based on Wikipedia:Risk disclaimer. Hddty. (talk) 14:36, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
Yeah, this reminder was kind of silly, especially considering that the list isn't blatantly incomplete. Even something much less countable like List of common misconceptions doesn't have that reminder, so I removed it. – FenixFeather (talk)(Contribs) 23:40, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

University of Pittsburgh Medical Center

Should a shooting at a hospital on a university campus be counted as a school shooting? University of Pittsburgh Medical Center#UPMC Western Psychiatric Hospital. --Marc Kupper|talk 08:48, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

One list

It would probably be better to have this article as one giant list, that way one could sort by each variable to gather the data, such as most deaths, date, or whatever else the person is interested in. As it is, you can't just sort the list to find the deadliest shootings in history in order. Does this sound like a good idea? Stidmatt (talk) 17:10, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

STEM School Highlands Ranch shooting

As per Talk:STEM School Highlands Ranch shooting#WP:NOTNEWS and Talk:STEM School Highlands Ranch shooting#This article should be merged the article should be merged. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 03:52, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

(empty template capture)

I suggest a consistent entry format in this work, for example: (Name of School) Perpetrator X did this to Y "(Jonesville Elementary School) Joe Snuffy, a student, shot and killed 7 students, wounded 30."

Names of victims should be omitted in this list and included in a separate article about the incident in question.

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