Talk:National Statuary Hall Collection/Archive 1

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 15:58, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Photos

I am going to add the images of the statues to the list to illustrate them. Cheers! Scapler (talk) 22:26, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Henry Clay's statue is not in the hall!

It is not there. The Capitol has hidden it and is refusing to let anyone know. Otherwise we would have a picture. 64.134.101.79 (talk) 02:28, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

According to the gov. website it is in the hall. Sure that you didn't miss it? These guys in suits look pretty much the same. Carptrash (talk) 14:35, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Zachariah Chandler no longer a Michigan statue

Resolved

Gerald Ford replaced Zachariah Chandler as a part of Michigan's two statues. This article needs to be updated.Golfdude8000 (talk) 21:32, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

The article has been updated accordingly. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 21:09, 8 September 2017 (UTC)

Proposal: Edgar Allan Poe Statue

Off-topic discussion

If there ever was a genius author with profound universal meaning, I propose a vote for an Edgar Allan Poe statue in the National Statuary Hall Collection, with a poem and signature from one of his novels on the bottom slabstone monument.--Corusant (talk) 04:25, 28 July 2011 (UTC) P.S. Another possibility for an additional John F. Kennedy Monument to organize it, equally. --Corusant (talk) 03:51, 28 July 2011 (UTC) This is the wrong place to make such a proposal.Boneyard90 (talk) 12:43, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Virginia and Georgia's 3rd statues

I will remove the paragraph "Two states have contributed three statues to the collection. Virginia has contributed statues of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and Robert E. Lee. Georgia contributed Crawford Long and Alexander Stephens before being asked to contribute a statue of civil rights leader Martin Luther King, Jr." -- a comment added by an anonymous user (68.158.9.108) on 01:28, 31 July 2006. There is no reference given, and there is no verification whatsoever on the collection's official site (http://www.aoc.gov/cc/art/nsh/index.cfm). While it's certainly possible that these states have given the statues of Jefferson and King to be placed in the Capitol, they appear to not be part of the collection, as the law which founded the collection would still seem to allow for no more than two statues from each state. Since the IP address appears to possibly be associated with the Atlanta, GA area -- implying possible insight into the King statue specifically -- I invite the poster to re-post the paragraph with a source. --24.23.84.46 20:53, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm one of the keepers of this article and will look into the Rev. King story. There are two statues of Jefferson in the Capitol, one by David d'Angers and the other by Hiram Powers, and neither was contributed by Virginia. There is another rumor going around that California is going to revoke [or whatever] the statue of its King and replace it with one of Ronald Regan. I'll check this one out too, and really hope that it is not happening. 8 years (opinion) of RR was more than enough. Carptrash 20:29, 2 October 2006 (UTC) PS, you ought to consider registering.

Likely the poster was referring to the statue of Rosa Parks that is mentioned at the top of the article. Carptrash 21:12, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Old conversation, but I agree with the original poster. Virginia only has George Washington and Robert E. Lee in the Statuary Hall Collection, Jefferson is not part of the collection, and was a gift to Congress. Likewise with Georgia, King's bust statue was actually commissioned by Congress, and is not part of the collection, either. And yes, California will be replacing Thomas Starr King with Ronald Reagan.~ (The Rebel At) ~ 14:47, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Any ideas as to who is creating the RR statue? The few I've seen of him recently, (one still in a nearby foundry) are not very good (opinion), so I hope at least we get good art out of this move. Carptrash 14:40, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

A quick internet search produced nothing more than the Ronald Reagan Presidential Foundation will be selecting the artist to work on the piece. I suppose an email or phone call might produce an answer, but then again, maybe they haven't selected a sculptor yet.~ (The Rebel At) ~ 21:12, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I discovered this while poking around:

Critics say the measure was passed hastily on Aug. 31, without allowing the public a chance to weigh in.

“This took place at the very end of the very last day of the session and there was no chance to have any public discussion about it,” said the Rev. David Sammons, acting president of the Starr King School for the Ministry in Berkeley, a Unitarian seminary named after the influential minister.

Sounds about right. (opinion) Carptrash 15:37, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Update of Locations Needed

The list of statues needs to be updated. Some of them have been moved to Emancipation Hall in the United States Capitol Visitor Center. Check the Architect of the Capitol site or the CVC site. ~ Wadester16 (talk) 03:37, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

I think (opinion, opinion, opinion) that regardless of where the statues are located that they are still part of the National Statuary Hall Collection. So, it is not so much the list as the locations that need to be updated. Carptrash (talk) 19:30, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Carptrash is absolutely right. The statues are still part of the collection. It's just the locations that need changing.~ (The Rebel At) ~ 18:15, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

I updated all of the CVC moves, but there were other changes that need made. --Daysleeper47 (talk) 18:20, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Mention of Statuary Hall legend

Reverted the removal of the referenced mention of the ghost story about the statues. "According to a popular myth, the statues occasionally come to life at night, step down from their pedestals, and dance around the hall with one another.[1]" Reasoning given was, "rm popular culture remark from factual discussion". I don't see what "popular culture" has to do with it, but even if that is the subject to which the story pertains, it wouldn't mean the story doesn't merit mentioning. Capitol tour guides themselves tell the story. It is something that is said about the Statuary Hall, and just because it's very, very unlikely to be true, it is still something that is said, and therefore ought to be mentioned. As given, the description identifies the issue as a "myth" — it's not like it's trying to come off as fact. It is a fact that there is such a myth, and therefore has a place in a "factual discussion." However, removal of the same from the article on the Capitol building itself is probably justifiable for space reasons, as the Statuary Hall does have its own page. Aratuk (talk) 23:20, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

If it's really that, then provide a reliable source. Your link is not. Tedickey (talk) 00:29, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Why did vinnie ream make a statue 1933, after she died? She is from il, too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sayotadashi (talk • contribs) 15:21, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Former Statues

Should there be a section regarding former statues in the collection? California has replaced one of its former statues, as has Alabama, shouldn't those statues be mentioned, including what has happened to them (i.e. where they are located)? --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 08:55, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

I have been thinking about this too. To begin with , just the fact that it has happened needs to be mentioned, even if we don't know where the statues are. I thought perhaps I found the King (?) one somewhere, but now I don't remember where. But good idea. Let's roll with something. Carptrash (talk) 13:28, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

"[Thomas] Starr King's statue was reinstalled on the second floor of the rotunda at the California State Capitol in Sacramento on June 3, 2009."

—WWoods (talk) 17:49, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

In this article (National Statuary Hall Collection), the list of statues includes the current statues only, in a nicely formatted grid. In the article National Statuary Hall, the list of statues includes all the statues (past and present), in a simple list. Is there a good reason for both lists to exist and have such different formats and inclusion criteria? — Lawrence King ^(talk) 18:43, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

It appears to have happened by accident, but Michigan currently has 3 listings in the grid (no Gerald Ford image yet). I actually like this. I was considering starting a second grid listing the statues removed from the collection *with images*, but this is a better solution. Perhaps the rows for the removed statues could be shaded? BoringHistoryGuy (talk) 14:42, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Hawaii

Resolved

Why do the Hawaii articles link to other statues, rather than to the article about the people, as do the other articles? This seems odd to me. -- Decumanus 23:33, 2004 Nov 22 (UTC)

Marking as resolved and archiving... ---Another Believer _(Talk) 23:37, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

Rosa Parks

According to their website, the Rosa Parks statue is in National Statuary Hall (http://www.aoc.gov/capitol-hill/other-statues/rosa-parks). Is this replacing some other Alabama statue? Should it be in this list? Paulmlieberman (talk) 20:51, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Congress commissioned the statue to be part of the collection. Since it was added by Congress, it is not the gift of any state and does not replace any other statue. The info in the link says that Congress has done so in the past, but this is the first full-length statue since 1973. Goldnpuppy (talk) 21:53, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

I've created a stub at Rosa Parks (National Statuary Hall). ---Another Believer _(Talk) 18:23, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

Confederates

It seems worthwhile to add detail that the collection includes several Confederates including Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis. As far as I can tell from Wikipedia browsing, these are the only statutes honoring Confederates within Washington itself, excepting only the outdoor statute of Brigadier General Albert Pike. This seems a more than noteworthy fact, one I was surprised not to be find myself. I've refrained from adding it because there would be no equivalent information about other people represented and I am not up for fighting any neo-Confederates who might object. Thoughts?Czrisher (talk) 14:18, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

I seem to remember that there are more than just two Confederates in the Hall, but then memory is no longer among my strong suits. Looking things up in a book still is. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 23:16, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

Because there have been some changes in the people represented in the hall in recent years my ufo might not represent accurately who is the in Hall nowm but it will be right about who was placed in the Hall by various formerly Confederate States in the past. if there is to be a discussion about that trend folks who were in the Hall but were removed would still fit in the discussion. Anyway, my ufo is from Viles 'Guidebook for a Walking Tour, Second Edition, 1997. It lists Sam Houston, who was governor of Texas in 1861, so perhaps was governor of the Confederate Texas. (It turns out that he was kicked out of office for not pledging allegiance to the CSA, so scratch him) General "Fightin' Joe" Joseph Wheeler, Confederate general from Alabama, Uriah Milton Rose was Chancellor of Pulaski County, Arkansas until it was captured by Union troops, Wade Hampton, Confederate general from South Carolina, Zebulon Vance raised troops for the Confederacy, was elected captain and rose to colonel, from North Carolina, Alexander Stevens from Georgia was the Vice President of the CSA, Edward Douglass White, Louisiana, was "captured by Union forces and held as a prisioner," Jabez Lamar Monroe Curry served in the Confederate Congress before joining the CSA cavalry and then representing Alabama in the Hall, James Z. George was twice captured by Union forces, Gen. Edmund Kirby-Smith of Florida was a CSA general, so yes, I think a mention of this in the article is a good thing, however any conclusions drawn from these facts need to be referenced. Carptrash (talk) 19:37, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

I have added Curry in, with notation that his statue is no longer there. Since Rose was elected before secession, it seems unfair to tar him as a Confederate. (I have no problem exposing my opinion of those who joined the Confederacy and defending it against Lost Causers and the like.) I've only just noticed that (talk) pointed out that Vance was not a general, so I shall fix that now. Czrisher (talk) 21:44, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

About Rose I find, "In 1860 he was appointed chancellor in Pulaski County, a position he held until Union forces captured the state capital." so he was a CSA public official, and " Although he opposed secession, he remained loyal to Arkansas throughout the Civil War". so it is debatable as to whether or not he belongs here but I figure that Arkansas will remove his statue for one of Bill Clinton in the not-too-distent-future anyway. Carptrash (talk) 21:57, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

The current problem is over whether or not the phrase, "all men guilty of rebellion against the government that so honors them," should be used to describe folks who worked for the CSA. I find it a matter of definition. Carptrash (talk) 21:08, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

And I see that the unregistered editor is still removing language and NOT talking about it here, Carptrash (talk) 04:45, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Navigation template

Related to the above discussions, and since I've created Category:National Statuary Hall Collection, I think Template:National Statuary Hall Collection would also be helpful. Not sure about the best way to sort the entries in this template, but for now I'll start with the subjects' last names. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 20:34, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

Statue of Standing Bear

Some articles still need to be updated, but I've created an article for the Statue of Standing Bear. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 01:31, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

An important addition. Until your post I don't remember ever hearing of Standing Bear or his work, so thanks for introducing him with the template edit. I see the engraving on the statue says "Chief Standing Bear" as well as the alternate name Manchú-Nanzhín, so maybe 'Chief' and his formal name should be added? Randy Kryn (talk) 02:26, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

Randy Kryn, I don't think we should assume the artwork's official title until sourcing confirms, and Standing Bear is the title of the page about the depicted subject. "Statue of Standing Bear" seems appropriate given recent changes to WP:VAMOS. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 14:58, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

Agreed, not saying that the title should be changed, just mentioned that 'chief' and the formal name of Standing Bear (Manchú-Nanzhín) might be added to the page descriptor since they are carved on the base of the statue and further round-out the prose about the honoree. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:04, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

Randy Kryn, Ah!, sorry, I thought you were suggesting a page move. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 15:05, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

Understandable, as my first comment above was poorly worded and I've been questioning Wikipedia titles of statues. Again, thanks for putting my attention on this activist who I've either not known about or paid enough attention to before to understand their social contribution. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:08, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

Frederick Douglass

The District of Columbia is donating a statue of Douglass to join the collection, increasing the count to 101, pursuant to a law passed last year. Unveiling ceremony is later this week. Sources: [1] [2] [3] [4] -- Foetusized (talk) 18:22, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

We may have to wait. The website hasn't mentioned it yet. The bill states it is moving to Emancipation Hall which contains some of the collection. Do statues simply need to be there to be part of 'the National Statuary Hall Collection' or do they need to be officially added to the collection. I will see if an editor in the area can confirm. We could also email the Architect of the Capitol and ask.--Canoe1967 (talk) 19:13, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

I'm hoping that news coverage the day of the event will help clear up the details, which is why I brought it up here instead of going ahead and editing the article -- Foetusized (talk) 21:18, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

We have a much bigger problem with this article because of Freedom of panorama. Most of these images actually violate the copyrights of the sculptors. I have brought this up at commons, sent emails to the Architect of the Capitol as well as copyright.us.gov. Nobody seems to care and most sculptors and their heirs may not even be aware of it. I created http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Canoe1967/Sculptors that doesn't seem to be moving forward as well. Just another elephant in the WMF room that needs to be dealt with. WMF legal will release a decision soon about File:ACMI 14.jpg which is still copyright protected in the USA. This is a tough decision because of the laws of the country the image was taken say it is ok but the US laws that have our servers may be violated. I emailed sculptor Steven Weitzman earlier today and hopefully he will allow images of this latest statue to be hosted here.--Canoe1967 (talk) 21:44, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Talking out loud here, but the statues are all commissioned works; therefore if anyone owns the rights to the work, it's the states and not artist or their family. Furthermore, as a gift to the federal government, the states would also not maintain copyright. Therefore the only person who may control the statue's copyright would be the Architect of the Capitol, who you say doesn't seem to care. Further, further, more including images of the National Statuary Hall Collection on a site like Wikipedia for educational purposes is the very definition of fair use. I think including the photos is just fine. Best, epicAdam^(talk) 22:35, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

I think this was brought up at commons and copyrights are rarely transferred with statues. I think a contract needs to specify this when they are commissioned. Work for hire is one version of rights not kept by creators. Most media photographers don't own copyrights when they work for a news agency type thing but freelance photographers do retain them normally. I think the discussions at commons mentioned that it is very rare with statues and we would need evidence that the copyrights were transferred with the statues in order to get licensing permission from the correct rights holders. It isn't a big deal yet but many sculptors could ask the WMF to remove images if the uploaders don't show that the rights did indeed transfer. I doubt there would be any legal costs if the requests are dealt with promptly.--Canoe1967 (talk) 23:06, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

"Ccopyrights are rarely transferred with statues" well that's all well and good, but copyrights are near-universally transferred when a work is commissioned by or gifted to a state or federal government. In any event, fair use still apply even in the rare case that copyright was maintained by the artist. Legal cost: $0. Best, epicAdam^(talk) 19:54, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

I've created Frederick Douglass (Weitzman) for expansion. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 20:57, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Move to commons

The following images should all be moved from the en wiki to the commons:

1. They should get the template {{PD-USGov-Congress}} for their copyright
2. They should be placed on the page commons:National Statuary Hall Collection
3. They should be categorized in commons:Category:United States Capitol

You can reference Wikipedia:Moving images to the Commons or Wikipedia:WikiProject Moving free images to Wikimedia Commons. I suggest using the CommonsHelper, {{Copy to Wikimedia Commons}} and Commonist.

--evrik ^(talk) 20:13, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm wondering about the use of the public domain tag. I accept that the photographs are works of the Congress and therefore PD. However, the sculptures themselves are commissioned by the individual States - i.e. not works of the Federal government - then donated. Therefore, they most likely are copyrighted, and the photographs are similarly restricted as derivative works. Has this issue been considered? Ipoellet 16:47, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Probably not. If I cared I'd email the office of the Architect of the Capitol and ask. Carptrash 22:57, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I'd suggest don't worry about it, just because some of these works are also over a hundred years old, if not older (some are relatively new), so then you'll be stuck researching when the statues were commissioned and completed, etc. Technically, the statues should belong to the States which commissioned them, no? ~ (The Rebel At) ~ 03:45, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Technically (another term for "in my opinion") the copyright to any work created after 1923 is owned by the artists or his /her heirs. When you buy or commission a work of art you do not necessiarily also but the rights to images of it. Carptrash (talk) 19:36, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Under current U.S. copyright law, the rights to an artist's work belong to her/his estate. Unless those rights have been waived, they don't expire until 70 years after the artist's death. == BoringHistoryGuy (talk) 00:38, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

George Washington

More of a reminder, but there is no Commons category for George Washington (Houdon) specific to the National Statuary Hall Collection. File:Washington Statue in United States Capitol Rotunda.JPG may be the only image from commons:Category:George Washington by Jean-Antoine Houdon (standing figure) to add to commons:Category:George Washington in the National Statuary Hall Collection? ---Another Believer _(Talk) 21:14, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

Bob Bartlett

For Bob Bartlett, I actually created the page at Edward Lewis Bartlett (de Weldon), per the Architect of the Capitol source. I'm not sure if Bob Bartlett (de Weldon) is a more appropriate title, given the name of the politician's article? The plaque below the statue calls him "E. L. 'Bob' Bartlett". ---Another Believer _(Talk) 01:10, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

Others

•  Done Bust of Abraham Lincoln (Borglum): https://www.aoc.gov/art/busts/abraham-lincoln-bust
•  Done Statue of Alexander Hamilton (U.S. Capitol): https://www.aoc.gov/art/other-statues/alexander-hamilton
•  Done Statue of Edward Dickinson Baker: https://www.aoc.gov/art/other-statues/edward-dickinson-baker
•  Done Statue of James Madison: https://www.aoc.gov/art/other-statues/james-madison-statue
•  Done Portrait Monument: https://www.aoc.gov/capitol-hill/other-statues/portrait-monument, https://www.visitthecapitol.gov/exhibitions/timeline/image/portrait-monument-adelaide-johnson-1921
•  Done Statue of Thomas Jefferson (U.S. Capitol): https://www.aoc.gov/art/other-statues/thomas-jefferson-statue
•  Done Statue of Ulysses S. Grant (U.S. Capitol): https://www.aoc.gov/art/other-statues/ulysses-s-grant-statue

---Another Believer _(Talk) 03:21, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Standalone article for each sculpture

I am going to go out on a limb here and assume each sculpture within the collection is independently notable. With this in mind, I think it'd be nice if this article could be split into the following: a parent article ("National Statuary Hall Collection"), a list of sculptures within the collection ("List of sculptures in the National Statuary Hall Collection"), and separate articles for each work. I recently created a few stubs for some individual sculptures:

• Robert E. Lee (Valentine)
• Edmund Kirby Smith (sculpture)
• Alexander Hamilton Stephens (sculpture)
• Zebulon Baird Vance (sculpture)
• Joseph Wheeler (sculpture)

I plan on creating a list of red links, identifying missing articles related to this collection, and I invite all interested editors to help create new articles for these works. I'll start by disambiguating with the word "sculpture", but realize some may need to be disambiguated by the artist's last name if there are other notable sculptures depicting the same subject. I'll return with a list soon. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 05:19, 8 September 2017 (UTC)

I think individual article is afine way to go. even for some of the lesser works by lesser artists, inclusion here should be enough. Il ook forward to the red links. Carptrash (talk) 16:00, 8 September 2017 (UTC)

Perhaps for naming purposes they should all be Subject (artist). Let's consider keeping them all the same, or at least talk about it. Carptrash (talk) 16:02, 8 September 2017 (UTC)

Sounds good. I could have sworn it was the other way around (I thought we had a preference to disambiguate by medium before artist's last name), but per Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Visual_arts#Works_of_art, disambiguating by last name seems to be preferred. This might mean I have a LOT of pages to move in my watch list. :) ---Another Believer _(Talk) 19:40, 8 September 2017 (UTC)

I never even read, much less followed, wikipedia guidelines. So it is nice to hear that they agree with me. And (opinion) unless you feel really motivated, I'd not worry about the past too much, we have a rather large future spread out in front of us. Carptrash (talk) 19:57, 8 September 2017 (UTC)

True. I won't worry about moving pages for now, and will focus on creating new articles with this recommendation in mind. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 20:43, 8 September 2017 (UTC)

• Remember that as you graph along, it is probably more like 105 statues, since ones removed from the Collection still should (opinion) be written up. Carptrash (talk) 22:23, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
  • @Carptrash: Yup, I set this goal specifically for the current 100 state statues. I was going to create a list of the removed statues and other works in the collection once this was completed. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 22:25, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

Our homework: Current 100 state statues

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Following is a list of missing Wikipedia articles (however, before creating a new page, please make sure the suggested red link is actually the best possible title for the article, based on sourcing -- I went with the subject's parent article title, disambiguated by artist's last name):

100% complete

All are invited to create and expand new articles. Feel free to discuss individual works below. Thanks! ---Another Believer _(Talk) 20:21, 8 September 2017 (UTC)

Pings

@Carptrash: The above list is complete, excluding the works mentioned in the "Other statues of people" and "Allegorical or mythical sculptures" sections, which maybe we can address after we've worked through the state statues. @Megalibrarygirl, Missvain, Monikasj, and Rosiestep: Pinging you all as well, in case you are interested in helping, especially with the statues depicting women and indigenous people. ---Another Believer (Talk) 20:34, 8 September 2017 (UTC) @AgnosticPreachersKid: Pinging just in case, since you've worked on DC sculptures in the past and expressed some interest on your talk page. ---Another Believer (Talk) 21:19, 8 September 2017 (UTC) @Another Believer: Thanks for the heads up. To encourage creation, I'll add any sculptures created by or about women to a redlist for Women in Red. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 22:03, 8 September 2017 (UTC) Great idea, thanks! ---Another Believer (Talk) 02:04, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Discussion

Discussion re: Samuel Adams

Samuel Adams (Whitney): Seems we already have Samuel Adams (Whitney statues). Do we need to move or create a redirect? ---Another Believer (Talk) 20:21, 8 September 2017 (UTC) I went ahead and redirected Samuel Adams (Whitney) to Samuel Adams (Whitney statues). ---Another Believer (Talk) 17:56, 9 September 2017 (UTC) I believe that Samuel Adams (Whitney) is the best name. Remember there is no rush. Carptrash (talk) 00:42, 10 September 2017 (UTC) I've submitted a page move request. ---Another Believer (Talk) 01:42, 10 September 2017 (UTC) The page has been moved to Samuel Adams (Whitney). I'll go ahead and collapse this discussion. ---Another Believer (Talk) 02:19, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

Discussion re: John McLoughlin

John McLoughlin (Proctor): We already have Dr. John McLoughlin (sculpture). I'm not sure if the existing article should be moved, or if we need to create a redirect. ---Another Believer (Talk) 20:21, 8 September 2017 (UTC) I went ahead and redirected John McLoughlin (Proctor) to Dr. John McLoughlin (sculpture) for now. ---Another Believer (Talk) 20:53, 9 September 2017 (UTC) I went ahead and move the page to John McLoughlin (Proctor). ---Another Believer (Talk) 01:51, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

Discussion re: Sakakawea

Sacagawea: Actually, I could use help determining the best title for this article. Currently, the list says "Sakakawea" and lists "Arizona Bronze Atelier (after Leonard Crunelle, 1909)" in the artist column. ---Another Believer (Talk) 20:21, 8 September 2017 (UTC) I'd go with Sacagawea (Crunelle) since this seems to be a copy of his original work. Let's see if we can locate his original work, the article will be about that and then we add the copy? Carptrash (talk) 21:36, 8 September 2017 (UTC) The original is at the North Dakota State Capitol, Bismarck, North Dakota, and the WDC version is (at the Smithsonian) credited to Crunelle with Arizona Bronze doing the casting. This (opinion) supports the Sacagawea (Crunelle) approach. Carptrash (talk) 21:41, 8 September 2017 (UTC) Great, I'll update the above list accordingly. ---Another Believer (Talk) 21:50, 8 September 2017 (UTC) The statue in ND and WDC are both named Sakakawea and so is Sakakawea (Crunelle) Carptrash (talk) 00:44, 10 September 2017 (UTC) Sound good. Seems we're all set here, so I am collapsing this section so we can more easily identify outstanding issues. ---Another Believer (Talk) 01:45, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

Have any good general sources for the lot? czar 00:13, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

Well I have three books that include all of them at various points in time, Murdock, Myrtle Chaney, National Statuary Hall in the Nation’s Capitol, Monumental Press, Inc., Washington, D.C., 1955, Architect of the Capitol Under the Direction of the Joint Committee on the Library, Compilation of Works of Art and Other Objects in the United States Capitol, United States Government Printing Office, Washington 1965 and Viles, Philip H., National Statuary Hall: Guidebook for a Walking Tour, Published by Philip H. Viles, Tulsa, OK, 1997 as well as individual books put out at the dedication of a particular statue and you are welcome to come on over and use them. Sun City AZ that is. Carptrash (talk) 00:37, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

If the sources are there, I can bang them out... Missvain (talk) 04:34, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

This source is super helpful, at least for easily creating new stubs: https://www.aoc.gov/the-national-statuary-hall-collection. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 20:22, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

Note: I went ahead and created Category:National Statuary Hall Collection, and as we're creating new articles, we should consider creating categories at Commons to organize commons:Category:National Statuary Hall Collection. Thanks! ---Another Believer _(Talk) 02:20, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

Discussion re: Jason Lee

Question: Reverend Jason Lee exists already. Should we move the article to Jason Lee (Proctor) or create a redirect? ---Another Believer (Talk) 02:47, 9 September 2017 (UTC) I suggest creating an article about Jason Lee (if he is notable) and then making a "Legacy" section (or whatever you prefer) and subsection about the sculpture with the details. Often for people who are notable in front of their sculpture, but nothing more (i.e. there aren't many many sculptures about them or tributes OR the sculpture isn't so mindblowingly amazing and notable on its own) we just add it into their article. Again, unless that article sculpture is so amazing and beyond the norm (and any public artwork is notable, but some more than others) than just merge it into his own article (if he is notable to have is own ;)). Missvain (talk) 04:38, 9 September 2017 (UTC) Thanks. I went ahead and redirected Jason Lee (Proctor) to Reverend Jason Lee for now. ---Another Believer (Talk) 20:49, 9 September 2017 (UTC) Jason Lee is here Jason Lee (missionary). The statue should be Jason Lee (Proctor) Carptrash (talk) 00:47, 10 September 2017 (UTC) @Carptrash: Thanks, I went ahead and moved the page. ---Another Believer (Talk) 01:26, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

@Carptrash: I've created standalone sections for some of the reminders below. Unless you object, I am going to go ahead and archive this section since we've created standalone articles for all 100 state statues and no longer need this working list. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 14:47, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Kamehameha

For Kamehameha I, I created Kamehameha I, not realizing there were articles for Kamehameha statues, Kamehameha statue (original cast), and Kamehameha Statue (Honolulu cast), none of which are linked to from the parent article (Kamehameha I), which is sort of strange. Kamehameha statue (original cast) does not mention "National Statuary Hall Collection", nor does Kamehameha Statue (Honolulu cast), which is surprising. Within the Kamehameha statues article, I added a "see also" link for Kamehameha I (Gould), since this section does mention the National Statuary Hall Collection replica.

Any idea for which of these 4 articles should be kept? Without doing a lot more research, I am having difficulty assessing if we need separate articles for different replicas, or if we should have all content about Gould's statues merged into a single article, presumably called Kamehameha I (Gould), which is the most recent page created of the bunch. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 03:04, 14 September 2017 (UTC)