Talk:Odsonne Édouard

Odsonne Édouard has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: June 29, 2017. (Reviewed version).

This article was nominated for deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:

Move to draft, July 28 2016, see discussion.
Delete, July 20 2015, see discussion.

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography: Sports and Games

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	Sports portal This article is supported by the sports and games work group (assessed as Low-importance).

Football: France / Scotland / Celtic Low‑importance

	Association football portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Football, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Association football on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FootballWikipedia:WikiProject FootballTemplate:WikiProject Footballfootball articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the French football task force (assessed as Low-importance).
	This article is supported by the Scottish football task force (assessed as Low-importance).
	This article is supported by the Celtic F.C. task force (assessed as Low-importance).

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Odsonne Édouard/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Liam E. Bekker (talk · contribs) 11:36, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hi FrenchFootball, I'll be conducting the review of this page. Please see below issues that I've picked up. Where our opinions/ideas clash or differ please let me know so that we can try to hash out a solution. Please note that these are just preliminary concerns and more issues may be raised at a later stage.

General[edit]

The article is a bit off standard at the moment. The biggest concern is that the article is probably too short to pass a GA nomination at the moment. It's currently sitting at 11,352b so we'll need to try and get it up to around 15,000b. You'll have to source some more information on him to add some weight to the article.

Happy that the article is now up to a decent length.

Lede[edit]

The lede will have to be expanded by three or four lines. It would help to include a short mention of his loan at Toulouse and then some more detail on his success with France U17.

The lede is also a good length but needs some tweaking. My proposed amendments follow hereafter:

1. Completely separate club from international in the lede OR start the second paragraph from "Having progressed through..."

2. Remove the < b r / >

Paris Saint-Germain[edit]

Break the paragraph into two - one discussing his arrival and youth years and the other from when he broke into the senior side.

Happy with the new layout

Try and make mention that he was signed from AF Bobigny as it is listed in the infobox.

Happy with inclusion

Look to include some info on the UEFA Youth League performances as it is listed in the honours.

Great, the page is much more informative with this information included. The paragraph needs some fine-tuning though. My proposed amendments follow hereafter:

1. In sentence 1, link to Paris Saint-Germain Academy rather than "club's academy".

2. Replace "notoriety" with "fame" or "prominence" - notoriety carries a negative connotation.

3. "...becoming the main goalscorer of the U17 section of the club" → "...when he was the club's top goalscorer at U17 level"

4. Paragraph 2, sentence 2 & 3 can be merged: Something like "The following season, he scored 22 goals in 14 appearances and also won the Al Kass Cup, scoring 3 goals in 5 appearances in the competition." - both references can follow at the end of the sentence

5. Paragraph 3, remove the word especially - otherwise its 100%

6. Paragraph 4, change "he played with...." to "Eduouard played with" and then "Eduouard was voted..." to "He was voted..."

7. Full stop after "...a particular season" - then start the next sentence with "The award was won by Kingsley Coman....."

8. Put the 2-1 scoreline after the word beaten

9. "Registered 3 assists" rather than "had 3 assists"

In sentence three, it would be better to describe his presence in the team as "selected for PSG's the International Champions Cup squad" rather than as his professional debut (his debut would be when he played).

I'm still not convinced by the use of the term professional debut given that he never featured in the match. I'm happy with the rest of this paragraph.
Sorry that was a mistake someone else put up, I forgot to get rid of it earlier.

The International Champions Cup is a friendly tournament so it is incorrect to describe it as his official debut. Rather non-competitive debut.
It would suffice to call the tournament the International Champions Cup rather than as the "American and European championship"
Stemming from the previous point, the last sentence could be amended to read "As a result of the victory, PSG were crowned International Champions Cup champions."

Toulouse[edit]

Make Toulouse a sub-heading of PSG
It's a matter of preference but it always looks neater with a heading without brackets, i.e. Loan to Toulouse rather than Toulouse (loan)

Happy that the above have been completed.

Sentence 2 - He made his debut for PSG → He made his debut for the club (avoid repeating club and player name too often).
The section on Personal Life can be used in Toulouse rather as it relates to his time at the club. The Personal Life heading can then be removed. Also change "gun" → gun.

Happy with the above.
There are some issues with tense and direct translation with the last sentence in relation to the rest of the article. Change it up a bit to read something like "Édouard alleges that Cafaro fired the shot while Cafaro claims not to have been in the car at the time of the shooting."

Include a summary of his season - goals and appearances and any other notable milestones or achievements.

This still needs to be done. It can be a simple sentence starting - "At the time of his loan being cancelled, Edouard had made X appearances and scored X goals for Toulouse."

International career[edit]

This section needs some more info. His record at youth level is very impressive so try and make more mention of that. The section on the U17 success could also be a fuller paragraph given his and France's success at the tournament.
You could maybe also make mention of the fact that he was born in the French Guiana and is thus eligible to play for France - something like that.

Happy with most of the above but be wary to use words like "brilliant" and "easily" in the first sentence. These may raise an issue with neutrality. A better alternative would be "After his strong/impressive performances at club level..." and "...which the nation went on to win, scoring 15 goals and only conceding twice."
Second last sentence, maybe put all the references at the end of the sentence. It always looks neater that way. Liam E. Bekker (talk) 14:06, 20 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Link hat-trick to Hat-trick#Association football

Honours[edit]

His accolades all need to be referenced.

Happy with that

Alright, that's my initial review. Let's tackle these and then we can fine-tune it to get this nomination passed. Cheers, Liam E. Bekker (talk) 11:36, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Alright FrenchFootball, thank you for the updates. I've reviewed the new content up until the end of the PSG section and left comments below each previous point. A lot of the issues have been resolved so we are making good progress. I'll review the remainder either this evening or during the course of tomorrow. Cheers, Liam E. Bekker (talk) 14:02, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Okay FrenchFootball, I've completed the second part of the review from Toulouse onwards. I've not yet looked at your changes from last night but will run through everything once more when the latest changes have been made. We're almost there. Cheers, Liam E. Bekker (talk) 13:39, 20 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Secondary Review[edit]

Hi FrenchFootball, thank you for the efficiency with which you have attended to the above suggestions. I've done a secondary review and found that the article now has the right structure to progress. I have, in line with Review instructions, attended to make some minor amendments in respect of the article. These changes relate to tone and tense for the most part. I endeavored not to remove any of the work you included, nor to add any of my own information, nor change your style. In summary, the edit I made related to:

linking of certain football-related phrases/names/teams
altering tense
merging paragraphs
restoring and adapting one sentence from previous edits in order to make section on ICC flow
small punctuation changes

Please have a look at the article and let me know if you are happy with the amendments I have made. If not, kindly point out the issues you have and we can discuss them here. Cheers, Liam E. Bekker (talk) 14:05, 21 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hi FrenchFootball, any further thoughts on the above? Liam E. Bekker (talk) 11:13, 26 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Liam E. Bekker, I think the article looks really good, thanks for the helpful tips! How do we procede from here? FrenchFootball (talk) 13:00, 26 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

→ Hi FrenchFootball, I've glanced through the article again. It seems inconsistent sometimes but where ever you've referred to goals and assists, and the amount is a single digit (i.e. 1 goal, 6 assists), please change the digit to a word (i.e. one goal, six assists), while leaving all double digits (i.e. 60 appearances) as digits. This is the correct way to do it. Scorelines do not change.

I'm still also not overly convinced by this sentence. "He scored 22 goals in 14 league appearances the following season and won the Al Kass Cup with the U17s on 15 February 2015, scoring 3 goals in 5 appearances":

Can we change that to something like ""He scored 22 goals in 14 league appearances for the U17s the following season and lifted the Al Kass Cup on 15 February 2015, ending the competition with a return of three goals in five appearances."

After that I think it will be ready for me to promote to GA. Liam E. Bekker (talk) 13:49, 27 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.:
It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall:
Pass/Fail:

Biography[edit]

Are there any sources for how old he was when he moved from South America to Europe, and where he moved to? Harambe Walks (talk) 00:15, 10 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

PLEASE REVERT BACK TO ORIGINAL[edit]

Can someone please help & revert this page visual back to how the other footballer pages look with the blue on the personal information, youth career, club etc. DanDan1888 (talk) 12:37, 30 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DanDan1888, done. Not sure what you were trying to do there, but it messed up the infobox template. Please be careful when attempting to update stuff like that. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 12:47, 30 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! Are you able to change the picture, this is not accurate DanDan1888 (talk) 12:55, 30 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DanDan1888, change it to what? GirthSummit _(blether) 12:55, 30 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If you can do that DanDan1888 (talk) 12:58, 30 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DanDan1888, I mean, what should we change it to? Are there any more recent images of him available on commons? I haven't looked, but if a file exists you can change it by simply changing the filename in the infobox. GirthSummit _(blether) 13:01, 30 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I checked & there wasn’t any I don’t think but it needs to be him in a Celtic shirt as that’s the club he’s at. Google? DanDan1888 (talk) 13:03, 30 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I just had a look on commons too, and that appears to be the only photograph we host of him. We can't just take pictures off the internet, that would be WP:COPYVIO. I agree that it would be better to have one in a Celtic shirt, but unless you have a more recent picture of him that you took yourself, which you could upload it to commons and release it under a creative commons licence, that seems to be the only one we can use for now. GirthSummit _(blether) 13:05, 30 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 11 September 2021[edit]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

81.131.100.90 (talk) 13:15, 11 September 2021 (UTC) I want to change the goals as he has just scored one[reply]

Not done: as we don;t update statistics during a match and then, you will need to cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 13:18, 11 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]