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Talk:Patricia Payne (mezzo-soprano)

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Requested move 21 July 2018

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: consensus not to move the page to the proposed title at this time, per the discussion below. Please initiate a new request to discuss the possibility of a different disambiguator, as necessary. Dekimasuよ! 08:01, 29 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]


Patricia Payne (mezzo-soprano)Patricia Payne (singer) – I believe a full discussion is the best way to go because this article is currently on the Main Page as a DYK. The current disambiguation by voice type is too WP:PRECISE. WP:CONCISE is apparently preferred by WP:NCDAB. The main Patricia Payne is active in the film industry, not music, so the proposed disambiguation seems to be clear enough. Vycl1994 (talk) 19:24, 21 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Mezzo or contralto

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On second thoughts and unrelated to this request: after reviewing her repertoire and the sources mentioned overleaf, her main voice type seems to have been contralto, so maybe the article should be moved to Patricia Payne (contralto)? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:31, 22 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose unless you have a source to say she's more notable as a contralto than a mezzo. However, I don't see how you can say moving the article to somewhere else is unrelated to this request. In my view, this suggestion should have been made as part of the discussion here. jamacfarlane (talk) 19:14, 22 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Unless you have sources to say she's more notable as a mezzo. Opera Scotland calls her a mezzo, and then lists her contralto roles. Just like this article, many sources describe her as mezzo/contralto. Kutsch & Riemens describe her as de:Alt (Stimmlage), the German equivalent of contralto. Almost all of the roles listed in her article are contralto roles. How this article is disambiguated doesn't matter much (the text and categories are more important), but it's not clear that "(mezzo-soprano)" is the best fitting term. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 01:15, 23 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I don't have a source other than Opera Scotland. I think as the current title uses "(mezzo-soprano)" the burden is on those supporting a move to identify sources, but if she's equally notable as both, then I would be content with "(opera singer)" or (the inelegant but ensorsed by WP:NCPDAB) "(musician)". jamacfarlane (talk) 04:16, 23 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for (musician), - the one time. Typically we singers are not counted among the musicians, "the singers and musicians" is a typically colloquial phrase. I'd leave as it is. We would disambiguate (contralto) for exclusive singers of that voice type, which she is not. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:57, 23 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The Metropolitan Opera lists her in the performance archives as Payne, Patricia (Mezzo Soprano). The New Grove Dictionary of Opera calls her "mezzo-soprano or contralto". In recordings and record reviews, the description varies pretty equally between mezzo and contralto. Her own official biography, states: "Her 'enormous' voice is a rich mezzo-contralto of unusual strength and quality." Frankly, I'd leave the title as it is. No one would be surprised by it. Or at best disambiguate with "(opera singer)". Voceditenore (talk) 05:36, 23 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.