Talk:Riven

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Featured articleRiven is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
Featured topic starRiven is part of the Myst series series, a featured topic. This is identified as among the best series of articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do so.
Main Page trophyThis article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on April 11, 2009.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
May 26, 2008WikiProject peer reviewReviewed
June 4, 2008Featured article candidatePromoted
February 12, 2009Featured topic candidatePromoted
Current status: Featured article

Could these images be used?[edit]

Robyn Miller once released early design sketches for Riven on his blog, under a CC license (by-nc-nd 2.5). They are no longer to be found on his server, however I have one of them on my hard drive. I think it could add a lot of value to the "Development"-section. I'm not sure what's ok and not with such CC-licenced images. Should I upload them? 81.236.199.5 (talk) 08:52, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, here's the link to the blog post: Early Riven.
The (NC) stands for noncommercial, which means we can't use them freely on Wikipedia, unfortunately. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 10:24, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Screenshots![edit]

This article would greatly benefit from a few screenshots. Currently, it's just a lot of text which gives a somewhat uninspiring impression. After all, the game is probably mostly known for its impressive graphics. 84.217.139.151 21:48, 30 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Story[edit]

I've edited the story section to better reflect the nature of the book that is given to the stranger. It is in fact a small prison that can actually be linked to and does not leave the character in limbo.

-

Actually, Atrus's diary in the game says ""anyone who attempts to use the Book will be permanently trapped in the dark void of the link". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.181.8.149 (talk) 08:53, 28 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Continunity[edit]

I have posted this message on all myst articles: I think it would be nice to have continuity over all the Myst Articles. This could be done with a section on the story, ages / islands and graphical advancements for all. What does everyone else think? Also, how could this be coordinated?

To be added after page is unprotected.[edit]

Please use this section for any notes on changes the article needs, so they can be done after the protection is removed.

  • "Riven in the rest of the Myst franchise": need to add that the Moiety dagger is also seen in the Cyan Worlds splash movie. (Look close just before the large cone fills the screen, and down at the bottom left you'll see the dagger)

Alternate Name[edit]

Is an alternate name for this game used by fans of the series "Myst II"?


- Not really, it's almost always referred to as 'Riven'.

217.211.215.43 21:08, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Island names[edit]

I changed a few island names to better known ones (Crater Island -> Book Assembly Island and Plateau Island -> Survey Island). Maybe the "Ages" section should be renamed to "Islands"? --Akhel 17:09, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think so since this part is firstly dedicated to Ages description, not Island description, unless they make a bigpart of this article. But you may right-shift description of islands, to show they are part of Riven Age. Take a look at french article to see what I mean. AElfwine 21:26, 23 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The "hardest" Myst game[edit]

I wonder where this often repeated statement originates from. Whoever said it had/has never tried "Uru" or "End of Ages". I did't find "Riven" particularly hard in 1997, and today I'd say it's easier than the original "Myst". Once solved, you never really forget how. The references to the number Five in the game may interest hardcore fans, but I'd rather read more about Richard Vander Wende and his background. IMO he played a great role in designing Riven and never got the proper attention. The game was called "Riven - The Sequel to Myst" in 1997. So it has as many references to "Myst" in its title as "Uru - Ages beyond Myst", which hasn't got a number and is apparently not really considered by the Millers to be part of the "Myst" series. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.189.140.27 (talk) 17:44, 11 April 2007 (UTC).[reply]

The thing that makes Riven, in my opinion, the toughest one, is that the story is not given to you. You kind of have to figure out your objectives for yourself. Uru isn't really part of the Myst continuity, and End of Ages is only easy to understand, it's just hard as anything to work the tablet correctly.Elmorell 20:14, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You need to explore the four island (Specialy Plateau island) before to understand HOW TO. Because, at the beginnig of the game, your goals are "Rescue Catherine" then "Call Atrus". Nothing more !

In the intro, Atrus gives you the trap book and tells you need to trap Gehn. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.181.8.149 (talk) 09:03, 28 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Article title[edit]

Isn't "The Sequel to Myst" more of a tagline than part of the title? So the article title should only be "Riven". Anyone agree? --Mika1h 20:35, 26 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. QuagmireDog 20:55, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Agree too. 84.217.135.172 17:28, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Disagree. While 'The Sequel to Myst" sounds like a tag line, it is the official release title of the game. Moby Games entry and IMDB, which require official titles as established by the publisher, state the full name of the title. While not a crime to refer to the game as Riven, Wikipedia requires official titles of creative works for main articles. Seg 21:34, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Does the entry at Cyan Worlds have any weight? Rehevkor 23:20, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reception[edit]

Please... add someting more than this jerking review of CGW. Just a 2 minute of play, of course you can say this... but play it completly next time ! 205.205.239.179 06:56, 31 May 2007

  • I agree. It's late and I'm not going to go hunting for more reviews, though, so I've removed that section entirely. ComputerSherpa 08:07, 17 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think you misunderstood the quotes or, I typed it incorrectly. They said that after playing the game for a couple of minutes, (just like the last game) the storytelling stops and you are forced to do tedious, meaningless puzzles. I added the reception section back in again with a positive review included since Riven originally received mixed reviews. DancingBlind (talk) 14:43, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

DVD vs. CD[edit]

There was a DVD edition and a CD edition of this game. What's the difference? —Preceding unsigned comment added by SuperGerbil (talk • contribs) 17:21, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

CD version was on 5 discs, DVD version was on 1. No difference in the game itself afaik. Rehevkor 17:49, 28 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
CD Version ran on Quicktime 2, First DVD ran on Quicktime 3, and the newest version runs on Quicktime 6. Now, this is a discussion page for the article, not for discussing the subject of the article! Hope it helps though. SpigotMap 18:41, 28 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, there's a huge difference. The graphics and videos are less compressed, making them way sharper and more detailed. Plus, of course, there isn't any disk swapping. 142.166.133.35 (talk) 00:17, 11 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Removing alternate endings section[edit]

I felt that the section that details out every single aspect of every single alternate ending was quite a bit too detailed, and didn't bring anything useful to the article... I have now removed it completely, if for some reason you object, do bring it back but please leave a comment about it here too. 81.225.128.124 14:45, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fate of the Riven age? [Spoiler Warning?][edit]

the line "[...], but the black Gateway Image suggests Riven has been completely destroyed by that time", confuses me slightly, as (if my memory serves me correct), in the ending sequence of Riven, when "The Stranger", opens a "hatch" to the star-filled void, the entire age is torn apart in a process very alike to the vacuum of space sucking out everything (through this "hatch"), and thus completly destroying the age...

correct me if i'm wrong


81.235.171.21 14:20, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

, or :[edit]

I hate to bring up another page move debate, but shouldn't it be "Riven: The Sequel to Myst" rather than the current arrangement? The comma is not part of the title and a colon is usually used to separate subtitles.. Rehevkor (talk) 16:57, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Alas, you're right. The article title should just be Riven in my humble opinion, although I realize this isn't an opinion that is universally held. ... - DavidWBrooks (talk) 22:26, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The official title as originally published is "Riven: The Sequel to Myst". If you need a source, check out Riven: The Sequel to Myst at MobyGames which requires the official shipping title for it's entries. Seg (talk) 08:26, 12 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is that there is a redirect page at Riven: The Sequel to Myst. It would require administrator intervention to delete the redirect page to allow the move. Eleven Special (talk) 13:17, 12 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Can still be done manually by copy and pasting. Rehevkor (talk) 13:24, 12 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That's not the recommended way to move a page. It doesn't move page history and talk page history and violates GFDL. Eleven Special (talk) 17:16, 12 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was move back to Riven. JPG-GR (talk) 23:01, 26 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I placed a move request at Wikipedia:Requested moves so we can decide this issue once and for all. The two possible names for this article are Riven or Riven: The Sequel to Myst.

I personally prefer Riven as it's listed like that in the official site. Also "The Sequel to Myst" sounds like a tagline (not used in article titles) more than a subtitle (used in article titles). --Mika1h (talk) 00:05, 21 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Mika1h here, "Riven" is a more appropriate title. Rehevkor (talk) 00:13, 21 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I consider this to be similar to The X-Files (film), the tag line may have been used as a sub title in advertisements/publicity/etc to distinguish it from the series (or in this case, to distinguish Riven as the sequel to Myst), but it's just that, a tag line. Rehevkor (talk) 00:57, 22 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Mcmullen, notice the BOOKS part. Movies and video game articles DO use substitles (since book subtitles are often little more than a brief summary of the book and not meant to be part of the title).
  • Support move to "Riven: The Sequel to Myst". TJ Spyke 02:34, 23 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Still support, but just "Riven". It appears that "The Sequel to Myst" was not meant to be part of the title, rather it was just meant ot let people known that that was the sequel to Myst (although why they couldn't just name it something like "Myst 2" is beyond me). TJ Spyke 04:57, 23 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support move to "Riven" only taglines are unimportant - DavidWBrooks (talk) 12:52, 23 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, so long as it's made clear in the lead paragraph that The Sequal to Myst was a widely used tagline, or alternative title. TalkIslander 14:30, 23 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion[edit]

Incidentally, assuming we move it back we're just correcting this ill-advised move. Andrewa (talk) 21:10, 21 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

From the survey above: but it's just that, a tag line. It's a significant tag line, in that it gives a title with five words, which ties in with the game. But the game is commonly called Riven (and note the five letters). Andrewa (talk) 01:03, 22 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Is it a tagline or subtitle? This matters since subtitles for video games are part of the article name, while taglines are not (it doesn't help that some game publishers do put taglines on the box). TJ Spyke 02:34, 23 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The best reference is the official site.. which says "Riven" (See above). Rehevkor (talk) 03:02, 23 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

I know the discussion is over so, I'm not going to modify the text above. But, in my opinion, the title should be what is shown onscreen when you play the game. Different countries have different box art and may not have that subtitle on it. The actual game content should be the same from english speaking country to english speaking country. 156.34.216.75 (talk) 01:11, 8 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

punctuation and quotation marks[edit]

We have signs of a minor edit disagreement over whether commas and periods should go inside or outside of quotation marks that exist around a word that isn't a quotation, such as a title - e.g., should it be:

... Riven has an optional method of movement known as "Zip Mode," which ...

or

... Riven has an optional method of movement known as "Zip Mode", which ...

Before anybody gets all fired up about this, please note that there is no agreed-upon style. Nothing is right or wrong; it's a matter of taste and habit.

The Associated Press and many American grammarians (see Strunk and White's "The Elements of Style") prefer commas and periods inside quote marks, while many British/Commonwealth grammarians prefer them outside - as do programmers, fearing confusion over whether to write a punctuation mark as part of a line of code. (This site [1] discusses the British style) Neither is correct or incorrect.

Because "Riven" is an American game, my personal opinion is that it should follow American habits, just as we do with spelling, which would mean commas and periods inside quote marks. But I don't think it matters much. (Semicolons and colons go outside quote marks in either system.) - DavidWBrooks (talk) 22:27, 1 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just to note, that the Manual of Style does have provisions about punctuation in quotes, namely that the period should go outside the quotes if its not the complete statement. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 22:34, 1 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well, there you go - I didn't realize that was in WP style. (Kind of snootily worded though - implying that Strunk and White are illogical, forsooth!) - DavidWBrooks (talk) 22:38, 1 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The manual says that we can use either the logical (punctuation outside quotes unless it's part of the quote) or aesthetic style (punctuation always on the inside), but the logical style is preferred, and the entire article should use the same style throughout. Personally, I think that the logical style helps keep quotations in the context they were originally written in, so that's why I changed a couple of those punctuation marks back to the outside of some of the quotes.
On a separate but related note, for those terms that are currently inside quotes, such as "Zip Mode", would it be better to write them as Zip Mode so that there is less confusion about whether the term was made up by the media or the game developers? I don't know if anyone else feels this way, but I feel that the quotes around the term make it seem less authoritative, like we made up the term to describe something that was unnamed. What do you think? — OranL (talk) 17:55, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Why not simply write Zip Mode with no particular formatting? Aren't the capital letters and the sentence itself enough to indicate that it is a term used in the game? Kariteh (talk) 18:05, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

External links[edit]

Recently, some external links were removed from this article (as seen here). Are these links really counterproductive to the article? WP:NOTLINK says:

"There is nothing wrong with adding one or more useful content-relevant links to an article; however, excessive lists can dwarf articles and detract from the purpose of Wikipedia. On articles about topics with many fansites, for example, including a link to one major fansite may be appropriate."

In this case, the links to MobyGames, IMdb, and the MYSTerium fansite were removed leaving only one external link. MobyGames and IMdb links are, in my opinion, always helpful, because they usually have a good list of details like taglines, cast, and links to more critical commentary. MYSTerium was one of the premiere Myst fansites for news, but it is now dormant. Perhaps we should keep the links to MobyGames and IMdb and update the MYSTerium link to a more active fansite? — OranL (talk) 16:53, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dispute over released platforms ive got.......[edit]

As far as I know, Myst was the only Myst Series game released on the Sega Saturn. Unless I am missing something, Riven was never released on Sega Saturn or am I missing something? JasonHockeyGuy (talk) 05:08, 11 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes you are. --Mika1h (talk) 08:51, 11 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Spoken Version[edit]

Could someone tell me how well they think I did on the spoken version of this article? Thanks. Hi! How are you? 01:33, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have good audio access right now, but I'll check back tomorrow and leave a note when I've listened. Thanks! --Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 02:41, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It sounds pretty good. In some places, you come off a tad mechanical in your phrasing and pauses, and there's what appears to be a slight echo, but overall it's fine, and I think better than the one you did for Myst. --Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 13:28, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the comments, it's nice to know that it isn't as bad as I thought (I'm very self critical). And just so you know, I didn't make the Myst spoken version, somebody else beat me to it. Hi! How are you? 19:21, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Never listed to any other spoken articles before but it sounded good to me. Rehevkor ✉ 19:43, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! I'm glad it wasn't too awful. :P Hi! How are you? 19:58, 5 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"The Stranger" or "the Stranger" or "the stranger" or "The stranger"?[edit]

The player character is referred to as "the Stranger" here. Should it really be capitalized like this? I think "The Stranger" or "the stranger" makes more sense - either the whole thing, including the article, should be considered part of the name, or it should not be considered a name at all but rather a description, hence all lowercase. What do you think? 90.232.214.193 (talk) 13:18, 25 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well, gramatically 'the Stranger' is correct... TalkIslander 13:51, 25 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
In this case I don't think anything is necessary "correct", grammatically or punctuation-wise - look at newspaper names, most of which capitalize The, as in "The New York Times," but some of which don't. From my point of view, "the Stranger" reads properly, because the capital letter shows that it's referring to a specific person instead of some stranger who wandered through, and the lower-case "the" indicates that this isn't a formal title used by the person to indicate him/herself, like "The Shadow". That is just my opinion, though. Does Myst refer to the player in a particular typography? - DavidWBrooks (talk) 14:22, 25 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Well, since there is technically no 'official' naming for the stranger, there is also neither a preferred typography of writing his name in Myst or its fanbase. A reference to him only appears in Myst V: End of Ages, where he is referred to as 'a stranger', which at least concludes that unlike The New York Times, the article is not part of his name (I know I say 'he' and 'his name', despite the gender being ambiguous too). --Svippong 14:44, 25 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The only reference to "stranger" I know of in the game is in Gehn's bedroom journal, where he writes "A stranger has arrived on Riven — with a Linking Book to D’ni!" No capitalization - after all, in the game it wouldn't really make sense for the characters to refer to the player as the Stranger as if it were a name, unless the player introduced him/herself as that. Atrus refers to the player character as "my mysterious benefactor" and "my friend" in his Riven journal, and as "my friend" when adressing the player directly. "The Stranger" is probably a marketing ploy or a fan invention. I suggest all lowercase and possibly using wording like "the anonymous player character" or similar in some places... 90.232.214.193 (talk) 16:31, 25 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Incorrect, though sourced statement[edit]

The gameplay section has the following sentence: "Many puzzles' sole purpose is to advance the backstory". From looking at the game, I can't really agree with this. While pretty much all the puzzles do tie in with and somehow "advance" the backstory of the world, I can't think of a single one which has only that purpose. Is it ok to delete this statement? 83.250.53.18 (talk) 09:12, 16 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No replies, so I went ahead and rewrote the paragraph in question, including the removal of this particular statement. 83.250.53.18 (talk) 14:54, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Replacing the Prison Island screenshot?[edit]

Today the article is illustrated with the box image and a screenshot of Prison Island, taken from ubi.com. I think it could be nice choose a better screenshot. For instance, it might be a good idea to use an image that illustrates the size of the in-game world, such as a view where several of the islands are seen at the same time. Is there any particular legal reason why the current image is taken from Ubisoft's website, rather than a screenshot from the game itself? I'm not sure what the prefered procedures for choosing and replacing images are, is it ok to go ahead and replace the image with a better one, as long as it's low res etc? Obiha (talk) 08:09, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

See WP:NFCC. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 13:46, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Remake[edit]

There's a remake going down! Called "Starry Expanse". http://vimeo.com/32374420 Endlessmug (talk) 01:48, 7 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Looks interesting! I can't seem to find anything in the way of coverage from reliable sources, however :/ Яehevkor ✉ 08:56, 7 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed. Mayhaps when they get to releasing the product we'll get the sources to mention it. It's quite nifty :) Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 13:03, 7 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Source[edit]

Best selling game of 97?[edit]

The article states Riven was the best selling game of 1997 but that doesn't add up. There are no sources but it's stated Riven sold 1.5 million copies in its first year and I've seen an LA times article listing it selling 4.5 million copies by 2001. I've seen Gran Turismo listed as selling 10.85 million copies globally with 3.99 million copies sold in North America alone.[1] 1997 was a very big year in gaming. Mario Kart 64 came out that year and I've seen it listed as selling as many as 9.87 million copies worldwide with 5.5 million in the US.[2] For as big of a claim as "best selling game of the year," I'd expect some sources. 141.214.17.228 (talk) 05:49, 7 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That claim is cited in the Reception section of the article, with a February 1998 Salon article that states the following:[3]

And despite its late-in-the-year October release, "Riven" was the top-selling game for 1997; it has now sold close to 1.5 million copies.

The claim is not that Riven has sold more copies than any other game that was released in 1997, the claim is that Riven sold more copies in 1997 than any other game. --Periaster (talk · contribs) 20:11, 7 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Are there any additional sources beyond the Salon quote? It just doesn't add up to me. Riven did not sell the most total units out of other games released in 1997. Multiple other games sold more total units. Riven was released late in the year so for it to beat those games, it would have to have extremely front loaded sales which is a strange thing to do, on top of that, it was marketed toward a broader spectrum of consumers than traditional video games. They would probably not be the type to be following game release dates. If any game would not be front loaded and instead have a "long tail" I would expect it would be a game like Riven, just like Myst. If people want to leave it in, that's alright. Calling Riven the "Best Selling game of 1997" is a big claim though and that should have some big evidence, especially when it goes against conventional wisdom. On top of that, it should be clarified. Other games sold more copies than Riven that were released in 1997. Even if a movie releases in December and makes a portion of its revenue the following year, it is traditionally called the highest grossing movie of the year it was released in. Also, are we counting worldwide sales or just North American sales? 141.214.17.228 (talk) 06:15, 10 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Checking around, it may be the best-selling CD-ROM title of the year, per [3]. The original source is "PC Data", so they aren't tracking console sales, and when you look through lists of best selling 1997 games overall there's also a few PC titles that stand out like Fallout that weren't on CD rom that should have sold better. --Masem (t) 13:36, 10 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Another article : [4] Clearly making the distinction between "computer" and "console" games, where Tomb Raider is the #1 there. --Masem (t) 13:37, 10 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Dropping in for a quick remark: Riven was the best-selling computer game during 1997, and those PC Data figures are just for the United States, as PC Data was a tracking service for the US computer software market. I don't know if Riven was the #1 computer game worldwide that year, although I'm sure there are sources that clarify it one way or the other. Also, these sales figures and chart positions weren't for CD-ROM titles—PC Data did have a CD-ROM chart that contained both business and entertainment software, but its entertainment chart (from which these figures derive) didn't distinguish between software formats in 1997. As for Fallout, it was only a minor hit—around 120,000 sales worldwide in its first 12 months. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 17:45, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Gran_Turismo
  2. ^ http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Mario_Kart
  3. ^ https://web.archive.org/web/20010913083729/http://images.salon.com/21st/feature/1998/03/02feature.html

Possible review[edit]

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