Talk:Robin Friday

Robin Friday is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.

This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on June 29, 2015.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
June 8, 2011	Good article nominee	Listed
June 24, 2011	Featured article candidate	Not promoted
August 4, 2011	Featured article candidate	Promoted

Current status: Featured article

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This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Untitled[edit]

This looks like it has some pretty clear vandalism but I don't know enough about the system to go about removing it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.31.181.204 (talk) 14:47, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't it true that Robin Friday once shat in Mark Lawrenson's kitbag? I think someone should look into that. 65.37.20.230 (talk) 23:39, 28 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That's already included in the article. Kosack (talk) 23:41, 28 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Robin Friday/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sarastro1 (talk) 21:40, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A fantastic article; just a handful of nitpicks in a very well written and entertaining piece of work. I can't remember the last sports article I enjoyed reading as much as this.

General points:

A couple of examples where capital letters follow a colon: " the twins were wildly different in academic terms: While Tony did well at school..." and "His laid-back attitude and indifference was already clear: In his father's words, "he didn't care"."
Two instance where a quote is not attributed in the text: " Having been caught stealing "a car radio or something", he..." and "right around the goalie".
Several examples of "noun verbing", which is best avoided where good prose is required: "With the opposition paying him..."; " with Friday scoring a powerful left-footed volley"; "With the asking price standing..."; "With Liza, by now the mother of Friday's second daughter, Arabella, beginning divorce proceedings, and Friday claiming that he had had enough of people telling him what to do..." There may be others.
Some POV in the lead: "However, his on-field performances were consistently excellent..." ("regarded as excellent"?) and particularly "Possessing fine ball skills, exceptional vision, an accurate, powerful shot, great physical strength and an untamable drive to win by any means..." which sounds like hagiography!
Overdetailing (some examples below): With a character like Friday, it is so tempting to include lots of stories and details about his life. I've had the same problem myself, to be honest. But I think an article should be concise, and in places, this probably crosses the line. Apart from the examples below, however, I'm not going to insist on anything for GA, as I think it meets the criteria, but it is worth thinking about if you wish to improve the article further, or take it to FAC.
- All done. – Cliftonian^{the orangey bit} 23:03, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Specific points:

"Tony was the first of the two boys to make the school football team, soon before Robin joined the side aged 10." Clumsy phrasing "soon before".
Possibly some over-detailing in the childhood section. I'm not sure we need to know about the teams he supported or his favourite players.
"Robin was picked up by numerous London sides during his teenage years": Odd phrasing; would "scouted" be better than picked up?
"He also had a talent for drawing, which he suddenly stopped doing aged 15." Again, slightly clumsy.
"Despite the controversy surrounding the interracial relationship..." 'The phrasing here suggests this went beyond the family being outraged; or do you mean the controversy around interracial relationships in general?
"He joined west London club Hayes in December 1971 after scoring twice against them in an Isthmian League match,[7] signing because of the £30 per week that Hayes offered, as well as the shorter distance from his home in Acton.": Long sentence.
"the spike went up through his behind...": Do we have to be so delicate, or could we use correct medical terms?
"League managers were sceptical of him...": Not sure sceptical is the right word; unless you change it to something like sceptical he could make it.
I think the anecdote about when he signed for Reading may be over-detailing.
"Barnsley then sent on a defender as a substitute..." I find this incident a little unconvincing and probably too much detail again.
"Friday took his good form into 1974–75. " This reads a little like a tabloid.
"Around this time an anonymous supporter telephoned the Evening Post threatening to burn down Elm Park if Reading ever sold their new star.": Overdetailed?
"so bad that even the Evening Post, traditionally favourable to him...": I think "traditionally" is a bit strong on the evidence of two seasons; what about "previously favourable..."?
Details of his appeal may also be excessive.
"Although by 11 April promotion looked a long shot...": Long shot is too informal. Improbable?
"However, his private opinion was rather less wholesome...": Not sure about this phrasing; and I think his regret does not need spelling out here, but you may disagree.
"the maverick forward": Tabloidese? And a little POV?
"Friday concluded that he had thrown the ball": Italics unnecessary.
- All done. – Cliftonian^{the orangey bit} 23:03, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

External links: All refs to statto.com are showing up as a problem.
- They work for me. Maybe their server was having trouble? Try clicking through manually. – Cliftonian^{the orangey bit} 23:03, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - Working now, but toolserver still shows a problem. Not sure why, so never mind. --Sarastro1 (talk) 23:30, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Images: As there will be no PD images of Friday, what about a fair use picture for the infobox? (Not necessary to pass GA, by the way)
- I had one but it was taken off, apparently just illustrating an infobox isn't grounds enough for fair use. I would argue that the representation on the single cover is enough to illustrate him in any case. – Cliftonian^{the orangey bit} 23:03, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - I have it on very good authority that an image serving as a portrait on the article of a deceased subject is fairly solid, as long as there is only one, and the cover could be argued as a separate case as it is referred to directly in the article. But it is not really relevant here, whatever the case. --Sarastro1 (talk) 23:30, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Sources: I have no access to the printed sources, but other spot-checks were fine, as were checks against refs which contained text from the source.
- Lekker. – Cliftonian^{the orangey bit} 23:03, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This looks to me like a potential FA. If you want to try for this, I would suggest a copy-edit to remove some wordiness and redundancy in parts of the prose (although this is comfortably good enough for GA) and maybe cut some of the "tales" about him, as well as cut back a little more on the over-detailing. Obviously, none of this is needed for this GA review.

I'm still working on it. Thanks for the advice. – Cliftonian^{the orangey bit} 23:03, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

For now, I'll place this on hold, but there are very few obstacles to this one passing quickly. --Sarastro1 (talk) 22:26, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. – Cliftonian^{the orangey bit} 23:03, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- - Everything looks good, passing now. Thanks for the prompt replies! --Sarastro1 (talk) 23:30, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Just adding to this because my comment on him not getting representative honours was removed. I knew and played against Robin Friday between 1961 and 1963. Both he and his brother played for their school team, Berymede Junior School, in South Acton. The school team played in a very well organised football league with an equally well organised cup competition. Although he may have had the footballing skills attributed to him in the article he was not at that age (10-11 years) thought good enough to play for the local district team (I have a picture of that team: actually the representative season was curtailed because of the awful winter of early '63). I mentioned Gerry Francis because he was head and shoulders above anyone else in ability in the area. No-one at that time would have put them in the same league of ability as footballers. Probably too much detail but I was trying to put some perspective on his considered ability at that stage of his life. The article seemed to be saying he was already a genius: he wasn't. But OK with you excluding it. An interesting read(Victor Middlesex (talk) 07:12, 4 May 2012 (UTC))[reply]

Comments (for FAC review)[edit]

Hello, some ideas.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to link association football because (for instance) I'm not sure our US readers know that this means soccer.
- Okay.
He appeared to play for four pro youth teams, not mentioned in the lead at all...
- Okay.
Friday was known for smoking... your implication here in this sentence is that he was better known for his exploits outside of the game, is that your intention? Perhaps you could clarify it. And it reads odd to start this with three or four extra-curricular activities and then "and his habit of unsettling opponents..." - he didn't do all of that on a Saturday afternoon did he?! (Perhaps he did!)
- Okay.
"unsettling opponents through physical intimidation contributed to a heavily tarnished disciplinary record. However, his on-field performances were regarded" not wishing to labour the point but he could only have unsettled opponents on-field (in this context) so this isn't brilliantly written.
- Okay.
début -> minor point but for some decades we've had "debut" in the English language without the accent.
- I like having the accent there, but that's just me, evidently. You're not the first to complain about my habit of using it. Off it comes.
"The strongest parts of Friday's game" not keen on "parts", perhaps "qualities" or "components" or something. My personal opinion though.
- "aspects"? I've put that in.
" a notable difference was that Robin" perhaps "difference in their personalities was..." or something similar?
- "a noticeable difference in personality"?
Is "bunking off" obvious to our non-UK readers?
- I thought it was obvious from context, but okay then.
"season at 13 " maybe "aged 13" for variety?
- Alright.
"attended the 1967 FA Cup Final as a youth player" unclear, could be misconstrued. He merely went to watch I suspect? so maybe, "as a youth player for Chelsea, he attended..."? I don't know, it looks a little picky. You get what I'm saying though?
- He went with the club's official party, along with most of their youth players, to watch the final. I think it's pretty clear but I'll make it more so.
"in each of these clubs losing patience with him." lost the clarity because the FA Cup final got in the way, no problem with restating QPR and Chelsea here I shouldn't think.
- I think that reads funny myself; it sounds like all of them lose patience at once if you put it like that. I've left this as it is.
"was even better as a goalkeeper" no need for "even" here?
- Okay.
"an Acton pub" not sure our universal public will understand pub without linking.
- Yep.
"to the Hayes front line in October" nice writing, no doubt, but a shade unclear to non-experts. Could you simplify a touch and just say he returned to the Hayes team?
- Okay.
"having done his research on his background, he " confusing. Maybe "having researched the player's background, he..."?
- Yah.
"The 1972–73 season was Friday's most prolific non-League year in terms of goals.[11] Friday briefly joined Enfield ..." (a) how many?!! (b) "He briefly..." (no need to repeat Friday).
- a) The source don't tell us, I would have said if it did. b) Okay.
"his amateurism meant that" sorry, I need this explaining. Is it because he wasn't being paid by Reading? Sorry for being dense.
- This was made clearer in a passage before which was taken out. I've made it much clearer now (at the end of the previous section)
"was repeatedly fouled cynically" perhaps "repeatedly and cynically fouled..."?
- Okay.
"favouring American Colt 45 lager," the link to colt 45 goes to malt liquor, not sure how this relates to lager?
- I had this issue before when writing it; in England it's sold as a lager, and it's not quite the same drink as the one marketed in the States, being a bit stronger in alcohol content. I went for lager in the end, though, because that's what the source calls it. I'll change it to "malt liquor", though, what the hell.
"a rise from seventh the " maybe just "one place higher"
- Okay.
"well during 1974–75. " never keen on this kind of thing in prose, I think wikilinks are to blame. Why not "during the .. season"?
- Okay.
Worth appropriate link to scout.
- Alright.
"1974–75 season" section, minor criticism (although I know no better) sentences start as follows : After, By, Although, After, However, Although... I dunno, just seems a little "regretful".
- I see. I've changed it around a bit; what do you think?
"much to Cumming's annoyance he then decided to keep them for himself.[59] With 22 goals for the year, 21 in the league," re-assert Friday at some point here!
- Okay.
Wrexham is now just F.C., not A.F.C.
- Alrighty.
"that if he didn't go to" contraction warning.
- Oops! Nice catch.
"two stone in weight worth linking "stone" appropriately and converting for our metric friends.
- Okay.
"second-to-last "-> penultimate?
- Zvakanaka.

The Rambling Man (talk) 18:51, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

All done, thanks. – Cliftonian^{the orangey bit} 19:45, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Untitled[edit]

Super article now, thanks. One comment: "lose two stone (about 13.70 kg) in weight" - the metric conversion is incorrect (should be 12.7), and too accurate. "about 13 kg" would be better. Deadlock (talk) 15:34, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers china, fixed now. :) —Cliftonian^{the orangey bit} 17:20, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you[edit]

Onee of the best players I ever saw. Bashereyre (talk) 06:59, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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