Talk:Roy Kilner

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Roy Kilner/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: –Grondemar 15:52, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

 Working Will complete the review within the next few days. –Grondemar 15:52, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

I have completed my review; the article is excellently written and referenced. I have the following comments that I'd like to see addressed before I pass this good article review:

• In the First World War section (which I renamed from "Career in the First World War" since elsewhere the term Career is used to talk about his cricket career and there's no mention of cricket in the section), there's a paragraph talking about Kilner playing football that seems disjointed to the rest of the section. Perhaps there is a better location for it, especially as it appears to begin before World War I does.
• In the test section, I assume he was playing his test matches with England? It mentions him coaching in India immediately before talking about the tests, but he didn't play for India, did he?
• M.C.C. - what does that stand for?
• The Death section is unclear—it says that Kilner was taken by ambulance to Wombwell, refused to be treated in Southampton, and then arrived in Wombwell. Perhaps a re-ordering of sentences is needed.
• In the Style and personality section, how exactly was his batting "unorthodox to the point to being eccentric"? This section could use some polishing.
• It's not required for GA, but it would be nice to have a photo or two of the man; most of them should be PD by age.

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

   I'm placing this review on hold until the above concerns can be addressed.

Thanks for your patience. –Grondemar 02:03, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

He seems to have goen AWOL. I can do the easy tweaks YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 04:49, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

I've done it all except the "eccentric" part. I'm guessing Sarastro couldn't find more info, as his articles are usually very long eg Douglas Jardine. It probably means a highly idosyncratic stance, style of swinging his bat, etc. As for the picture. UK has 70yrs after death, so unless the photographer died in 1940, it isn't allowed. Most sports photographers are usually young, and Kilner played in the 1920s, so most photographers would be alive YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 05:12, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

I've fixed the "eccentric" bit. Thanks to YM for the rest. --Sarastro1 (talk) 07:49, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Looks really good, thanks for addressing my concerns. I'm going to pass this article for GA. Excellent work! –Grondemar 16:23, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

His personality

Someone famously described Kilner as "the sunshine of the Yorkshire eleven", but I can't remember who. I'll see if I can find a citation. Also I wonder if Hodgson could be wrong about the Cardus claim that it was Kilner who said that "What we want is no umpires and fair cheating all round", as I seem to recall Cardus attributing it to Dick Tyldesley of Lancashire. My memory could easily be faulty, though. Of course, Cardus is quite capable of having atributed it to both players at different times! JH (talk page) 21:16, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I think it was either E.W. Pullan ("Old Ebor") or Jim Kilburn; it might have been in one of their histories. But I could be wrong, as I can't remember either! I'm fairly sure the cheating quote is from Kilner though. And Cardus probably made it up anyway... --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:30, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

More than likely. :) As for "the sunshine of the Yorkshire eleven", on second thoughts it may have been said about Schofield Haigh rather than Kilner. JH (talk page) 08:19, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

You're right, and in that case, it was Old Ebor! --Sarastro1 (talk) 08:42, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

War service

I've made a few tweaks to the First World War section. There's a bit more info in Kilner's medal index card, but as that's a primary source, and this article is currently undergoing a Featured Article Candidacy, I thought I'd put that info up for discussion first. The card is available from http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=3418213, and will also be on Ancestry.co.uk. It shows that Kilner first went to Egypt on 22 November 1915 (making him eligible for the 1914–15 Star). The card further states that he transferred to the Royal Field Artillery on 2 March 1917 - I suspect this will coincide with his posting to Preston, but without access to the other soruces used, it's hard to confirm that. Kilner also had the standard eligibility for the British War Medal and Victory Medal, but also received the Silver War Badge, suggesting that his injuries were severe enough that he was eventually discharged from the army before the end of the war. David Underdown (talk) 15:57, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Debut for Yorkshire

I would like to get some feedback before I post this picture of the 1911 Yorkshire cricket team to the article. It looks like the cricketer sitting in the center of the front row is Kilner, or he may be standing in the back row on the far left. Even if Kilner is not pictured in the photo, it seems to me that the picture is relevant to the "Debut for Yorkshire" section of the article. The article is somewhat lacking in good pictures anyway so adding this might enhance it to some degree. --♥Golf (talk) 15:15, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Kilner is the chap sitting in the front row on the left (as we look at it). However, the copyright status of the image isn't completely clear. While the photograph was from 1911, there is no evidence that it was first published prior to 1923, and given the UK copyright status would be life of the photographer + 70 years, a 1911 photograph could easily still be copyrighted. Without these pieces of information, this image can't be used on Wikipedia as free-use, and certainly can't appear in a Featured article. Harrias ^talk 16:05, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

I bet the photographer is long dead, so the 75-year threshold wouldn't be a problem, but I don't know that for sure. Too many unknowns as you've mentioned, so I won't be adding this picture. Thanks for responding to my proposal. --♥Golf (talk) 16:48, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

I expect so. I'll do some digging and see if I can find anything out. Getty Images do have a copy of the image, which they date as being 1912, so that is another avenue to confirm! Harrias ^talk 17:05, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

I, too, will do some digging and see what I can find. Picture is very cool, I want to use it if we can prove it is worthy and old enough, etc. I like that little crooked smile he's giving in the picture!; that's why I couldn't tell that was him. --♥Golf (talk) 17:11, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

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Roy Kilner's bowling action

Former Yorkshire Cricketer Arthur Mitchell told the Yorkshire Post about the origin of the nickname 'Chinaman' which was used for left arm spinners "We first heard of it when Roy Kilner began moving his wrist making the ball turn from the off". Looking more carefully at his article, I see it says 'Kilner delivered left-arm wrist spin at times, constantly practising it in the cricket nets. His brother Norman believed Roy was the person who coined the term "chinaman" to describe such a style, although other players have also claimed to originate the phrase'. So it seems that he bowled both, and I'll amend the table to give both separated by a slash. JH (talk page) 19:50, 18 October 2023 (UTC)