Talk:Salinas, California/Archive 1

Bias Housing Prices section

i'm wondering if the stuff about housing prices is biased? it seems to be saying that the mortgage prices are too high, which is an opinion. Dandube 14:14, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

No, it isn't bias, especially since its based on MCAR and Census data. The section describes the wide disparity between house prices and incomes in Salinas. The house price-income disparity is, according to Forbes, higher on the Central Coast (the Bay Area and NYC metro have higher incomes) and especially Salinas than anywhere else in the country, a fact that is truly worth mentioning; just like you'd mention crime, loss of population or other pressing socio-economic issues. Thanks. Gerdbrendel 19:31, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

-Roberto C

Also, recently Salinas was listed as one of the three most overvalued real estate markets in the country. See http://money.cnn.com/2005/12/29/real_estate/buying_selling/handicapping_housing_markets/index.htm

The Housing prices section is unsourced bias opinion. It also represents original work. Furthermore, the one reference sited is no longer valid. Because of these, it does not follow wiki guidelines. If some feel that this section is needed, then it needs reworded and sourced. For now, I'm going to tag it as unsourced and weasal.Fcsuper 16:27, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Well Salinas is one the list of one of America's most overpriced cities and a look at the city's median home price in excees of $700,000 and median household income of $48,000 should make it very clear why. I admit the section isn't well written-so I'll re-write in the next couple of days. Regards, Signature^brendelHAPPY HOLIDAYS 06:22, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

-Robert C. On a different note, I propose enlarging the discussion regarding gang violence, as the level of influence gangs have on the city's youth (especially on Hispanic youth in the east side) is substantial and in some neighborhoods is on par with the most gang-affected cities in the U.S. I will try to find published sources (I grew up in Salinas' East Side but don't pretend to be able to edit the article based on my own experiences).

Yes, there is a gang problem in some of the cities neighborhoods, most notably the east side, but overall the homicide and violent crime rate in Salinas is not any higher than in most other mid-sized California cities such as Stockton, Modesto, Fresno, or Long Beach. One also needs to consider that some neighborhoods, most notable Creek Bridge and Harden Ranch are as gang free as most suburban areas lined with similar McMansions. IMO: There is no real reason to even mention gang violence in the city as it is not anywhere near as high as in, say, Compton ir Inglewood. Also, please sign your posts by placing four tidles (~) at the end of each post. Thank you. Regards, Signature^brendel 01:31, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Brendal, it's not referenced at all, and it represents original research anyways. Simply saying something is referenced doesn't make it so. It's making a point, and that's the point. It shouldn't. If you can reword it to be factual and not original research, then please do so. Perhaps find a creditable source that makes the comparison between median home prices and wages? Otherwise, it doesn't belong. San Jose, California entry under the heading "Growth" has a good example of how this section should look. Except for the last paragraph (which does seem out of place), it is concise, factual and directly referenced. If this issue can't be addressed very soon, the marker will be added back to get some attention to the section for improvement. Do you agree that improving wiki articles should never be discouraged?Fcsuper 04:50, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

P.S., the references 1 and 2 are no longer valid weblinks.

See my post above. The section is not making a point, it simply states that fact that the city's median home prices is way, way higher than it usually would be for city with a mid-range median household income. The two links may have expired because they were linked to real estate listing that have been closed since. BTW: My username is spelled with an e, not an a. Regards, Signature^brendelHAPPY HOLIDAYS 06:25, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Brendel, it's not simply stating a fact. It is largely a POV presention of hypothetical scenarios. It has the following:

1) A hypothetical scenario that represents original research: "This means that when financed through a regular 30 year loan at 5.7% interest with a $100,000 downpayment, the mortgage payment on an average 1300+ sq ft home would be in excess of $3,000 a month. Assuming a household spends 50% of all net income on housing an annual gross income of $95,932 would be required. If the household only spends 30% of all net income on mortgage payments an annual gross income of $143,899 would be required."

• The fact that it is saying "This means that..." is a de facto statement of original research. There's no way to say otherwise. The statement is self-declaring that it is making an interpretation!
• "Assuming a household spends..." is an hypothetical statement. Again, it's not a statement of fact. It's a scenario. A scenario is not fact, it's hypothetical.
• "If the household only spends..." is another hypothetical statement. Ditto, ditto, ditto.

2) More original research and another hypothetical scenario: "Even after a slowing of the national real estate market in the US, the city's median home price remains well above the $600,000 mark."

• What or which slowing of the real estate market?
• Who says so?

3) And here's the ending: "This particular home had two bedrooms and was located in the city's most dangerous police beat."

• The claim "located in the city's most dangerous police beat" is completely unreferenced and out of place.
• Also, now that the link it references is broken, the overall statement about that property represents original research as well.

The section badly needs work. Simply finding a source that says what it's stumbling around trying to say would help A LOT! For example, use article from the above money.cnn.com link and build this section around that.

I know home prices are out of whack in Salinas. They are out of whack in a lot of California places. But what is "overpriced" to one person is just right and advantageous to another. From the perspective of this section, it would seem only the “overpriced” POV is valid.

Please keep these points in mind when addressing other's comment about this section of the article. The Original Research marker belongs. It will give wiki users the opporutnity to improve the article. This doesn't take away from what's there. It simply flags that more is needed. Fcsuper 01:14, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Okay in response:

1. True, I'll re-write that part sometime this or next week
2. Those can easily be references; $608k, median home price in '06, overall slowing of the housing market- you can find a gazillion sources on google; the city's median household income is $43,000
3. The listing for the house I was refering to experied, the crime map that proves the house on Garner Avenue to be in a dengerous police beat can be found on the Salinas PD crime stats page.

Overpriced refers to the huge disparity between household income and prices. I simply interpreted some statistics for our reader. And paying to much is never "just right." Overpriced, in addition to describing the disparity between income and prices, also states that you are getting to little bang for your buck. Paying $1 million for a home that you could have had for $600,000 three years earlier is never a good deal, even if you can easily afford it. I know that the housing market in CA over the past few years has benifited some individuals, inluding myself, but that's doesn't close the disparity between income and housing prices. The average Salinian will have a hard, hard time affording the average home. That said, I already agreed to re-write the section.. Regards, Signature^brendelHAPPY HOLIDAYS 02:01, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Was any of this addressed yet? Still haven't explained why the marker isn't necessary, especially since there is considerable dispute on that section of the article. This is bordering on inappropriate protectionism. Fcsuper 03:32, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

I was busy writing other articles such as Personal income in the United States, etc... I have re-written the section. Regards, Signature^brendelHAPPY HOLIDAYS 04:36, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Brendel, my complaint wasn't that the article was delayed in its re-write. It's that the appropriate tag was removed during the period before its re-write. Having something tagged isn't a criticism. It's simply an announcement regarding the current state of the article. I know you are an experienced Wiki contributor, so I will only request that you consider this in the future. As for the article, I consider the comments resolved. Thank you for the time and effort you have put into this article. Fcsuper 00:58, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Areas of Salinas

Not sure if it's relevant but Salinas is divided into several areas, some of which go by names that are often substituted for Salinas when people state where they live, but which remain in Salinas, or in the Salinas area. Examples would be San Benancio, Las Palmas, Spreckles, Corral Di Tierra, maybe also note the distinct differences between East, North, and South Salinas. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 214.3.118.1 (talk) 16:12, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

In truth, Salinas comprises of a group of towns that eventually became one huge municipality known as "Salinas." This includes Alisal, Boronda, Bolsa Knolls, Santa Rita, etc.

Kogejoe (talk) 05:18, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

new hotel

Hello i'm a Salinas resident, is it true that the city is planning on building a new high rise hotel? If so, its about time don't you think so?

Yes the city is indeed looking into a number of proposals to built a high-rise hotel/condominium complex. It is about time, the current Steinbeck parking lot has been vacant since the '89 earthquake which destroyed the last big hotel in town. A city the size of Salinas should defenitely have a large hotel but as of now we must abstain from adding information relating to these developments as such information is still of speculative nature until there is defenite consensus from the city council and the bull-dozers start moving in. Regards, Signature^brendel 03:01, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Me & Bobby McGee

Is it worth mentioning that Salinas is referenced in the popular song "Me and Bobby McGee"? "Then somewhere near Salinas, Lord I let her slip her away Looking for that home I hope she'll find"

Not really. Regards, Signature^brendel 03:43, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

It was also mentioned in the TV series Greatest American Hero as well. I'm sure these are not note worthy. Fcsuper 01:35, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

WASP

The WASP comment is a weasal comment that needs rewording and either needs a source or it needs to be removed.Fcsuper 01:37, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Well WASP, is a vaguely defined sociological concept. The term may refer to a lot of things-I guess the author who put that word in meant, non-Italian Whites (who settled mostly in Moneterey). Furthermore I think Salinas was not founded because Teutonic Europeans did want to live next to Italians but because a town was needed to tend to the needs to farmers in the Salinas Valley. Regards, Signature^brendelHAPPY HOLIDAYS 01:41, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I removed redundant and unsourced statements from the intro.

City Map

I like the city map's look and information. However, it doesn't show the entire city. Does someone have a map that includes the entire extent of the city limits? Fcsuper 04:58, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I can provide a map including all of Santa Rita, I get them from the Census Bureau and can adjust the zoom. Regards, Signature^brendelHAPPY HOLIDAYS 06:32, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Inflated Population Figures

"Money Best Places to Live" Magazine (Perhaps the writer meant Money Magazine's "Best Places to Live" article) is not a verifiable source of population figures. Wikipedia uses the U.S. Census Bureau or figures from a verifiable government agency to cite population. I am changing the article to reflect as such. You can view the most current (2005/2006) population figures from Monterey County and the City of Salinas here: [1] Dcmcgov 02:47, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Agriculture

Why is there no mention of the agriculture in the area There is a small mention in the Economy section, But I would think it deserves an entire section? Also whats the deal with that huge gang section? Why isn't there a section about the large Hispanic majority that speaks in a more neutral manner. Gang section but no immigration section.....or agriculture section....this is not very representative of the reality of what the city really is.--Amadscientist 09:39, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, quite a few cities are mainly hispanic in CA, but there should be entire section devoted to agriculture. Signature^brendel 19:49, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

All of these concepts are intertwined and need to be included. Salinas is a major player in the Ag business, and as such, this is connected with immigration and Hispanic migrant workers. Salinas is home to many farming, harvesting and cooling companies that distribute vegetables to various reaches of the US. Salinas is famous for, but not limited to, lettuce, brocolli, brockoflower, onions, etc...

Kogejoe (talk) 05:23, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Van Partible and other notables

hey wiki experts - just want you to know I went to school with Van Partible and his name is Efrem Giovanni Van Partible. Google Efrem Partible and you will find his brother's my space page talking about this. The school yearbooks that weren't changed to simply Van, have him as Efrem (SHS yearbook, Volume 85). We used to call him Efrem for fun, but he always went by Van.

Also, you are missing people like Alan Shipnuck, senior writer for Sports Illustrated and author of Bud, Sweat & Tees, and NFL athlete Brian Thure, who both went to Salinas High and NFL athletes Chris Dalman and Elliot Vallejo who went to Palma.

70.134.73.125 00:18, 26 August 2007 (UTC)salinas resident

Gallery

Why in the world is half the gallery nothing more than pictures of houses? If the houses themselves were significant then I can see it being included in this article. Maybe they are included to illustrate the housing situation in Salinas perhaps? Nevertheless it's overkill and seems like it was placed by a realtor. To me a gallery for a city should be more diverse, a picture of city hall, a famous landmark etc. Even if it was used to illustrate the housing situation in Salinas, keep in mind that there are many cities in California where houses are overpriced. ----Ðysepsion † ^{Speak your mind} 07:04, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Much of Salinas is mainly a bedroom community. Pictures of residential communities are a good way to illustrate life in a bedroom community IMHO. Yet, I have cut the pics of houses in half. Signature^brendel 07:11, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree to many pictures of houses, someone needs to take pictures of the train station, murals, city court, parks, golf course, fields/agriculture. But hey I guess houses are more important or something. And yes houses are very overpriced most housed are pretty close to a million dollars. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.188.210.246 (talk) 09:58, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I noticed this too. I hate to say it, but the picture gallery views like a real estate brochure. I was born and raised there, and NO, Salinas is NOT mostly bedroom community, though recently there has been a lot of land developing into gated communities. This gallery is NOT representative of Salinas, which is NOT mostly bedroom community. No, it's NOT this beautiful wonderful town where people need to come and live because it's just so wonderful.

There needs to be pictures of agricultural fields. There needs to be pictures of Mexican migrant, or should I (dare I) say immigrant workers. There needs to be pictures of Salinas' ghettos and Mexico Towns. (Go to East Salinas, Del Monte Ave., Sanborn Rd., Rider Ave., if you dare. Don't forget to bring your bullet proof vest and helmet... Your car may need a paintjob afterward too...) What about all the crappy pill-box housing to the east? Run down apt. complexes? Is there a picture of the John Steinbeck house? Historic Amtrak Salinas Station? Pictures of the cooling facilities? Historic Main street? There's just so much more to Salinas than real estate, and I hope people are reading this and contribute.Kogejoe (talk) 05:42, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

I noticed the Steinbeck house. My bad. STILL, it's another HOUSE. Also noticed talk about the Rodeo, and I just remembered, it's one of Salinas' biggest events of the year. There's an opening parade, and there is a huge mural at the multi-purpose stadium on Main St. in dedication to the Rodeo. It would be nice if someone could take a picture of it and put it in that section...Kogejoe (talk) 05:50, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Can someone please explain to me why several house pictures were removed from the gallery but placed back into the article? So is this some kind of Salinas/Real Estate article because it doesn't seem that the suggestions above have been taken into account. Why don't I just drive down Bevery Hills and take pictures of houses indicating that they are on this famous street, or they are a "ranch style" home etc. After all Beverly Hills is known for movie stars and huge homes right? Unless these houses are significant why are they being continually added? For the sake of argument let's assume that it is a bedroom community, why is it necessary to include ordinary houses? Salinas in and of itself is not known for the housing situation. ----Ðysepsion † ^{Speak your mind} 05:19, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

I would like to share some great photos of Salinas: historic sites, art, culture, and generally positive images. How can I do that? I uploaded one to the commons, but not sure how to get it on the Salinas page. By the way, very disappointed in the negative bias of the content on Salinas....Sully art (talk) 02:32, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

I would venture to say that the photos currently provided on this article do not represent what Salinas is. This is like providing a bunch of pictures at Ocean Beach in SF and saying that is what SF is all about. I agree with the Arts and Culture comment below. I would like to see a photo of the Rodeo grounds for starters. --Fcsuper (talk) 22:42, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Can someone help me to post photographs representative of Salinas? I have great images to share, but so not have authorization to post any images. Please let me know of what I need to do in order to get photos into the Salinas Gallery of the Rodeo, the Claes Oldenburg Hats, Boronda Adobe, the Art Walk, and agriculture. Is there an administrator I can talk to? Thanks for helping!--Sully art (talk) 05:22, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Hi Sully art! You might try visiting WP:IFU as a helpful starting point. --Itsfullofstars (talk) 07:09, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Hello Its Full of Stars, Thanks for your help - I've added some images which I feel better represent Salinas than all those unusual house and apartment pics. I just need to get a photo of the agricultural fields and then Salinas will be adequately represented. Thanks again! Sully art (talk) 06:36, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Arts & Culture

I wanted to add this section since there is not any mention of the arts on the Salinas page. Also would like to add some photos of historic sites, public art, music, etc. It would be nice to have a few pics of something other than houses. The snow on the mountains is great, as is the sunset, but it is not of Salinas, it is Marina Beach. How can I share my images of Salinas for the Salinas page? Thanks! Sully art (talk) 02:45, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

As a Salinas resident, I think this is the first time I've seen the words "Salinas" and "arts" in the same sentence. I do like the idea of some photographs emphasizing historical sites, though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by *Legion* (talk • contribs) 06:46, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

What? Come on! Salinas is covered in murals, there is that avant-garde public art at the Rodeo Grounds (the three hats), and a couple of statues, Salinas has art, it just doesn't rub yoru nose in it like Monterey residents do. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 214.3.118.1 (talk) 22:51, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

We now have some images of Salinas' art and culture as well as historic sites. Any other suggestions? I'll go out and take more photos! Sully art (talk) 06:40, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, plenty of nice murals to photograph and the courthouse has these great faces carved into it's walls and columns. Also the roadside GIANT farmworkers along 68 and all the murals by that artist (name anyone?) he's done stuff all over Salinas. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.130.38.35 (talk) 00:40, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Measure T

Measure T doesn't seem notable. Of all the things someone looks up when they go to a particular city, particular measures is not likely one of them (unless they are of some national or int'l interest). There's tens of thousands of measure passed or not passed each year in the US. Outside of the community, most are not notable. Measure T appears so unnotable, the section doesn't even discuss whether or not it passed. This section appears to be more of an advertisement than anything else. I propose its removal. --Fcsuper (talk) 04:26, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Upon no objections, I removed the Measure T section. --Fcsuper (talk) 16:17, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

I realize Salinas is a boring place, but...

The information provided in this article is bordering on unnotable, particularly in the education section and other such headings. I would suggest scaling this article back a bit to cover just the more encyclopedic points. — fcsuper ^{(How's That?, That's How!)} _{(Exclusionistic Immediatist )} — 04:01, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Salinas River 'State Beach' photograph

It is a pretty picture, but I recommend deletion for the following reasons: 1)Salinas River State Beach has NOTHING to do with the City of Salinas. 2)It is more than 12 miles from Salinas (in Moss Landing), and this article is about the City, not the Valley. So, 3)Bad info all around. Highspeed (talk) 05:12, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Crime section

The homicide rate graphic is out of date with respect to the table of data. There is also a big discrepancy for the year 2005. Maltodextrin (talk) 00:03, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

I have redacted the Crime section substantially, as most of the statements represented OR in the form of synithesis. Since much of it was stated as outdated recentism anyway, it was removed. — fcsuper ^{(How's That?, That's How!)} _{(Exclusionistic Immediatist )} — 15:44, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

I have changed several of the numbers for the crime table. I got my numbers straight from the FBI's Crime In the United States Yearly Report. The chart looks like this:

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_08_ca.html

I did this for 2004 - 2008 and computed the crime rate per 100,000. It looks like whoever did the last chart didn't divide the homicide rate by Salinas's shrinking population. 173.8.168.145 (talk) 11:33, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Architectual firm relevance

Is there any reason Kasavan architects is so frequently referenced here? The National Steinbeck Center, Hartnell Performing Arts Center, and Salinas Sports Complex are all attributed to Kasvan Architects. No other architectural firms are mentioned here, nor is there any context given for the firm's relevance to the city. This comes across more as advertising than relevant information. It might be appropriate information for an article on any one of the above buildings, but not for the Salinas City article. Does anyone object to its removal? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dustyshelf (talk • contribs) 22:20, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Removed 3 unnecessary references to Kasavan Architects. Dustyshelf (talk) 19:51, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Housing pricing section

Given current realities, the housing price section no longer holds any notability whatsoever. The hole topic was based on the idea that prices were high, but now they no longer are. This seems silly. I propose the removable of the section. — fcsuper ^{(How's That?, That's How!)} _{(Exclusionistic Immediatist )} — 21:32, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

I concur, absent anyone willing to do a re-write on that section. Highspeed (talk) 05:33, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Section removed — fcsuper ^{(How's That?, That's How!)} _{(Exclusionistic Immediatist )} — 17:01, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

/* City funding */ add hatnotes to address issues with heading

I propose severally redacting or removal of the City Funding section. It is nearly completely recentism and much of it lacks notability. Other thoughts? — fcsuper ^{(How's That?, That's How!)} _{(Exclusionistic Immediatist )} — 17:18, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

With no response to address the material in question, the content was removed. — fcsuper ^{(How's That?, That's How!)} _{(Exclusionistic Immediatist )} — 19:57, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

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