Talk:Scotland national football team

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Results and Fixtures

Hi all,

There is an ongoing discussion regarding the implementation of a Results and Fixtures section on the Scotland national football team page. Please click the link in the title to give your opinions! Felixsv7 (talk) 12:21, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Stop adding this until there is a consensus for it. What you are doing is inconsistent with club articles and isn't even accurate. The correct fixture list is maintained at Scotland national football team results (2020–present). Jmorrison230582 (talk) 17:39, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Just be bold and add it. I was just came here to see, and it's bizarre that there is nothing here, unlike just about every other nation's football team. I can't imagine that it would be controversial given the 100+ precedents. Nfitz (talk) 03:40, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Why is it "bizarre" to not have a "recent results" section in a football team article? There are literally thousands of club articles that don't have them. The Scotland rugby and cricket teams don't have one. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 06:25, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

I said nation, not club. It's bizarre because I've never come across it before. At least for a nation that plays regularly (some smaller nations can go years between matches). I don't know why you'd raise club - it's not comparable, and not relevant. There's seldom more than 10-12 games a year (2021 being an exception for many nations). Why should Scotland be different than other team? Standard practice is to show scheduled matches (looks like 7 currently) and matches during the last 12 months (currently 14). Rugby Union and Cricket are different projects. Speaking of which, someone should really fix Scotland women's national rugby union team#Results. I think we'd both agree that shouldn't be in the main article. Nfitz (talk) 07:22, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

I agree with Jmorrison, this wasn't an issue when the article was promoted to a featured article. The article links to the independent results articles anyway and the history section includes information about the most recent results. Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 08:36, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

It was promoted to a featured article 15 years ago in 2007. We've become much more consistent since then. Personally, I found it hard to find the information, and that page doesn't follow the usual format. There's no reason the article can't be improved. The key question is why would this page be different than all the other similar nation articles. Even men's articles for other parts of the UK show the standard "Results and Fixtures" section, like Wales, England, Northern Ireland. Even Cornwall :). Nfitz (talk) 15:34, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 12 April 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) MaterialWorks (contribs) 18:03, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

---

• Scotland national football team → Scotland men's national football team
• Scotland national under-21 football team → Scotland men's national under-21 football team
• Scotland national under-19 football team → Scotland men's national under-19 football team
• Scotland national under-17 football team → Scotland men's national under-17 football team
• Scotland national under-20 football team → Scotland men's national under-20 football team
• Scotland national under-18 football team → Scotland men's national under-18 football team
• Scotland national under-16 football team → Scotland men's national under-16 football team

– The common name for both the men's and women's teams is just Scotland per BBC, STV, The Herald, The Scotsman, Edinburgh Evening News, The Courier, The Guardian, The Independent and Football Scotland. Other sources including RTE, ABC and ESPN also refer to the women's team as just Scotland. I note that the P&J and Sky Sports do refer to them as Scotland Women, however, they are in the minority. As a result, this should be a disambiguation page. Per WP:CONSISTENT, I have bundled in youth teams which would also require to be moved if consensus is to support this proposal. Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 10:21, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

I don't have a strong view on this, but I would note that the SFA don't regularly operate any women's national youth teams above under-19. This means that I don't see the need to move the (men's) under-21 or under-20 articles, as they aren't ambiguous. The same principle also applies to the men's B team, which isn't being proposed for moving (?). Jmorrison230582 (talk) 11:42, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

I did think about that regarding youth teams, would have no qualms if the ones which have not had a women's representative side are separated out and obtain a different consensus. Regarding the B team, my apologies, I only looked at Category:National youth sports teams of Scotland for any other articles that may need moving (pending this discussion). Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 13:57, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose - I think it is standard to leave these articles at their current titles. The Wales version was moved without discussion last month but was reverted a while later. I also think this may need a general discussion about all men's national and under-aged team articles instead of just moving Scotland out of consistency with the other articles with the same formatting titles as this one. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 15:36, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

There hasn't been consistency across national team articles for almost 20 years after the US and Canada pages were moved in 2004 and 2008 respectively. It was also not an issue when the Australia page was moved last year. That would suggest to me that the consensus is that WP:CONSISTENT only applies to the subset of articles for each individual country/territory rather than across all 200+ men's national team articles. Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 17:34, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing that out. By reading the Australian RM, two other users seems to agree about the general discussion that I've stated above. It is true that consistency has not existed for years as you said. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 20:02, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 20:02, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose - not the PRIMARYTOPIC. Women's soccer is much bigger in US/Canada (for many years it was bigger than the men's), hence why those countries' articles are named accordingly. GiantSnowman 15:36, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose, men's team is PRIMARY.--Ortizesp (talk) 14:56, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Oof, this needed to be changed. Helpfulwikieditoryay (talk) 10:28, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Other languages

Per MOS:LEADLANG, If the subject of the article is closely associated with a non-English language, a single foreign language equivalent name may be included in the lead sentence. That's not currently the case (and only one recent iteration did this) as there are two other languages included and they are not included in the lead but instead as a note. I think it makes more sense including them in brackets rather than hiding them in a note but I honestly don't know which one you would include as both are valid inclusions. Does that mean we should have two instead even though the policy is quite clear to only include one? I'm not sure. As it has become and issue in the recent edit history, I would welcome other input to find the best way forwards. Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 19:20, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

That policy also says "If the subject of the article is closely associated with a non-English language, a single foreign language equivalent name may be included in the lead sentence, usually in parentheses" and "Consider footnoting foreign-language names if they would otherwise clutter the first sentence". Yes, other languages are used in Scotland, but the Scotland team is not "closely associated" with a non-English language. It's not popularly known by the other language names in the way other teams are (e.g. Munich / Munchen). A footnote should suffice. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 03:57, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Afghanistan national football team which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 15:33, 23 September 2023 (UTC)