Talk:The Lazarus Experiment

Jones Family?

How do we know that Martha's kin will be seen in this episode? Where has it been stated? - NP Chilla 03:07, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

They were seen on location during filming of this episode. Of course, I'm not sure how reliable a source we could find for this — all I can think of is posts in the spoiler section of the OG forum, and maybe some shots on freemaagyeman.com — but I'm satisfied that it's true at least. I'll poke around and see what verification I can find. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 03:12, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Hmm... I found these reports on freemaagyeman.com, but they're hardly encyclopedia-standard (one says the actors were "possibly seen", and the other has a photo from so far away they could be anybody). And it's also reported in these set reports from the spoiler section on the OG Forum — but that's not a reliable source, either. Do two unreliable sources add up to a reliable one? Open to suggestions on this one — I happen to believe it's true, but we all know the standard is verifiability, not truth. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 03:26, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Don't worry about it too much. The episode will air soon anyway. DonQuixote 12:01, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Crab-monster

The BBCi trailer appears to show a crab-monster by that white machine called a Hypersonic Ultrasound thingamyjig. For inclusion? Or should the image be removed?--Rambutan (talk) 17:34, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually, are we certain that the beastie is in this episode? Perchance it could also be a mutant from the Dalek two-parter... hm... - NP Chilla 13:01, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

We're almost certain - if you look closely, you see a white machine similar to one confirmed to be in TLE.--Rambutan (talk) 13:31, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

OH!!!! You're right. Goodness me, you're eyes are sharp! :) - NP Chilla 13:40, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Thankyou (assuming it's a compliment!). "Such a sharp mind" - Empress of Racnoss.--Rambutan (talk) 14:29, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I cannot tell from the face that the monster is Mark Gatiss, the monster is very reminiscent of the Racnoss in The Runaway Bride. There may be a possible connection.--Brinstar 15:16, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

No-one suggested that the monster is Mark Gatiss. I doubt that there's a Racnoss connection (not least because [spoilers coming up] this episode ties up with Mr Saxon, who ordered for Racnoss to be killed. Now, if you were plotting a trap across time and space, you wouldn't order yourself to be killed in the past, would you?).--Rambutan (talk) 15:21, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

That is one theory you have put to rest but there could be other connections. Doctor Who has had monster tie-ins before now. The first series was swampt with references to 'Bad Wolf', the second episode of series two we get a werewolf. The first series introduced the Slitheen, in "Love and Monsters" we meet a creature from their twin planet.
Perhaps Mr Saxon isn't connected with Professor Lazarus himself but another character in this story. But Wikipedia is not a crystal ball, all I was doing in my last comment was highlighting the physical similarities between this new monster and a monster we had seen before.--Brinstar 07:22, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Could this monster possibly be from Blink. I'm not presuming anything I'm just saying that maybe we shouldn't put up all the pictures until we have seen official "next time" trailers that can confirm it. Mr. Garrison (talk · contribs)

I think we should stick with the picture of Gatiss from the Christmas trailer. The thingummy behind the crab-monster (dare I mention the Macra?) certainly does look like the hypersonic whatsit, but putting that together is a bit OR-ish, and it's not impossible that the machine could appear in more than one episode. (Perhaps Mr. Saxon is financing Dr. Lazarus, and claims the machine after Lazarus is out of the picture. I'm just saying.)

It's better for us to stick to images which we know for certain are from the given story. We can allow ourselves a little leeway for the two-parters (since we won't necessarily know which episode the shot of Dalek Sec is from, for example), but if there's real uncertainty about which episode an image comes from we shouldn't use it. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 07:34, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

[Spoilers of Gridlock] Having just seen Gridlock, the monsters at the bottom of the motorway are giant crabs, and are indeed the Macra. Any possibility that the BBCi trailer had an unused clip from Gridlock, or that the Macra reappear in the series? - Weebiloobil 16:32, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

I had heard whispers that there might be Macra this series, and I think I simply got the wrong end of the stick. The crab-monster from the BBCi trailer (image here) doesn't look much like the Macra we saw in "Gridlock", and I think the chances of a "Macra arc" are somewhat slim. (Not impossible, but slim.) I'm guessing that this crab is unrelated to the Macra. At any rate, it would be OR to mention the connection here, especially before the episode airs. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 04:35, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

If you look at the trailer from EoD I think you'll find it's actally more of a scorpion --88.110.40.4 15:45, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes it definately has a sting in it's tail. Thats a figure of speech I'm not claiming that as fact. But from the other shots it looks more like a scorpion. Perhaps more will be explained about it's design in the upcoming Doctor Who Confidential.--Nosxalc 19:09, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Does that monster remind anyone else of the Phyrexians from "Magic the Gathering"? 69.42.6.193 22:51, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

The Master Returns

Since one of the writter writers said egnimatic the enigmatic pay master I think the master will return seeing the producers stated he would return

No, they didn't. The "pay master" could be anyone. Anyway, this is original research. - NP Chilla 12:31, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

The return of the master is pure speculation spawned from the bbc saying that a old foe of the Doctor is to return.--Nosxalc 18:35, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

There is an enigmatic "Mr Saxon" who has a good idea who the Doctor is. I assume we'll find out later who this is. If it is "The Master" again, I'd call that banal.--GwydionM 18:53, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Since the previous season mystery term was an anagram, I played with "Mr. Saxon" just now - but all it appears to reveal is that the man doesn't own a saxophone. ;) -- Karen | Talk | contribs 00:11, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

"Mister Saxon" → "Master No. Six" PeeJay 12:44, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Mr Saxon cannot be the master. He died, like all time lords the master can only regenerate 13 times. That is why the master was fighting with him all the time because the master wanted to take his regeneration energy. And for all of those people who go "there's only been six masters" the first official master viewed on our television was the penelutimate incartion. The only point of the master in the doctor who movie possessed a human body not another time lord so only had one, let alone he was thrown into the eye and obliterated. So this debate isn't just about whether its him or not it's what shows should be used in conpleting a full doctor who enclopidia/wiki. And the anagram thing, the only reason torchwood was an anagram link is when russell t (blessed is his name) when doing audio stuff was playing around with anagrams he came up with torchwood. Is Bad Wolf an anagram i think not so ha. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.212.63.231 (talk • contribs) 19:06, 9 May 2007 (UTC).

Mavarin only said the previous seasons' arcword (Torchwood) is an anagram, not Bad Wolf. As for Master No. Six, this would be the sixth incarnation of the Master seen on screen. The production team may not (if he is the Master) actually refer to the anagram on screen, it may just be an in-joke, much like Torchwood being an anagram. Next time, sign your comments and try to use correct spelling and grammar, and to not be so offensive - Weebiloobil 19:34, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Removal of trivia

The Doctor re-dons the dinner jacket & tuxedo that he wore in Rise Of The Cybermen/The Age Of Steel. In the preview clips shown at the end of The Runaway Bride, the Doctor is shown leaping out of the path of an oncoming explosion.

I've removed this point because there is no evidence (and, I suspect, will not be any) that it is the same dinner jacket, and even if it is, it would need to be explicitly referred to or significant to the plot in some other way to merit a mention. (All dinner jackets are pretty much the same, after all - it's not as if he's reviving the Sixth Doctor's coat, thank goodness). Also, the thing about the preview clips says virtually nothing, although I wouldn't be too bothered if somebody felt that bit should go back in (but again, just because the Doctor appears in a dinner jacket doesn't necessary mean that it's that episode, so there may be an element of assumption or OR in making this statement). Also, a dinner jacket is a tuxedo. And re-dons isn't a word. Peeper 16:34, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Images

I'm not changing the image of this episode, like I've done with The Shakespeare Code, Daleks in Manhattan, and Evolution of the Daleks - I think the picture and caption look perfectly fine. :) Will ^{(is it can be time for messages now plz?)} 21:01, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Delays

Unless I am mistaken it is 42, not this episodem that is delayed by a week. The date of the eurovision song contest seems to confirm this!

Yes, it is 42 that's delayed. However, the Doctor Who website says that, due to the delay of 42, that "something special" will be appended to The Lazarus Experiment. This is all beside that picture of the grinning Mr Saxon. Could we see a hastily-filmed Party political broadcast by the Vote Saxon campaign? And is this notable information? Kelvingreen 19:18, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

"One day after Smith and Jones"

I've removed this here until it's sourced properly:

• In the children's magazine Doctor Who Adventures, a caption stated that this episode is set one day after Smith and Jones

--Tony Sidaway 05:07, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

In the clips on BBC Breakfast, her mum says "You just disappeared last night", so the caption is correct. I'll replace it, with reference to DWA removed, just in case that's not true.--Rambutan (talk) 07:03, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Please enter a reference to the pre-broadcast trailers as the source. --Tony Sidaway 08:09, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Huh?

The episode synopsis said that the villain was going to be called Lady Thaw and that the plot of the episode would focus on her stealing the machine. There was no such character and if there was she wasn't a villain and she never stole the machine. Furthemore it now says that the wheels of a deadly trap have been set in motion by the Doctor's arch-enemy, the Master hiding at the centre of time. This is never said to have occured. Nor for that matter did Professor Lazarus reveal any Sonic Amplifier thing. The only events that occured in this frightfully dull episode were Professor Lazarus turning himself young with the De-Ageing Machine, mutating into a giant scorpion, chasing the Doctor round the building while the Doctor taunts him then being incapacitated and taken away in an ambulance before escaping and fleeing to a Church where the Doctor, Martha and Tish find him. Then he mutates into a scorpion monster again, chases Martha and her sister around the building while the Doctor plays on the pipe-organs for no apparent reason and finally falls to his death from the steeple. The episode concludes with Martha going away in the TARDIS with the Doctor while her mother phones her to say that she has heard from one of Mr Saxon's employees that the Doctor is dangerous. So I don't know where all this original research and factual innacuracies are coming from.

Anon

The sonic amplifier was the de-aging device, as is clearly stated in the episode. Lady Thaw's actions in the episode may have been wrong, but her presence wasn't.

What episode did you watch, Anon? Lady Thaw appeared at the beginning. It was she who convinced Lazarus (supposed to be her lover) to use the machine for purposes other than good. However, following the mutation, he rejected her. He then mutated into the scorpion-thing, and drained her life energy. She was the first to be killed by him. An employee of Mr. Saxon spoke to Martha's mother twice, and it was Mr. Saxon who financed the experiment. Martha's mum thinks that the Doctor is dangerous, but she didn't before. The de-aging maching was the hyper sonic sound wave manipulator. The Doctor played the organ (amplifieing it with his sonic screwdriver) so as to make him drop from the bell tower, as he couldn't handle the sound. So far as I'm concerned, everything in the article is factually correct, and adequately sourced - Weebiloobil 19:21, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

"So I don't know where all this original research and factual innacuracies are coming from."

Most probably from someone who watched the episode on TV and not the one you watched in your head

• Lady Thaw was the old lady at the start of the episode who was the first person killed.
• The Machine was the the hyper sonic sound wave manipulator.
• It was a cathedral.
• The Doctor played the organ so he could kill the monster. 86.156.47.173 09:21, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh I see. Thank you. I wasn't watching it very closely because I kept having to yell at my little brother to shut up.

Anon

The Blitz?

Yes, The Curse of Fenric is set during the Second World War, but it's also set on a remote military base literally hundreds of miles away from the Blitz specifically the London Blitz being referenced in the episode), so I don't think it's a relevant reference in this context. The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances is fine though. Kelvingreen 19:39, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

League of Gentlemen references?

The second one (the burning church) seems particularly vague. can these be sourced? Kelvingreen 19:43, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

The first one regarding Lazarus living over a butcher's shop/Gatiss notably playing a butcher seems pretty straightforward, and the reference leaped out of the screen as far as I was concerned - can we put this one back in? [I agree that the second one was very sketchy] Divy 08:37, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Lazarus Labs Logo/Gallifrey

I think it would be nice to illustrate this point (that the lab logo looks like Gallifreyan script) with some screen caps. Is that doable? Kelvingreen 20:12, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Speculation about apparent resemblances constitutes [original research]. This overrides talk page consensus. So, as much as some people would like this topic to be included, it does not belong in continuity. Digby Tantrum 12:55, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

This is an important point. I do see similarities between the Lazarus logo and images seen in the Doctor's Tardis, I believe, but I don't have clear notion of the the Lazarus logo being” identical to the Gallifreyan writing system” as stated in this article. I believe this needs to be clarified and/or illustrated. "Identical" is probably not the correct word here, is it? Not sure. Asta2500 04:35, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

I've noticed something about this also. The circles making a bigger circle is used for the Lazurus Labs logo, and looks similar to the Gallifreyan writing, but ALSO looks very similar to the design of the Dalek 'interface screen' featured in the previous episode. Either someone at Doctor Who's creativity department is pretty lame, or perhaps these are to become a recurring pattern... Or it could just be coincidence.

The pattern in Evolution of the Daleks can be found at the Episode Gallery on the official website The pattern in The Lazarus Experiment can be found in the background of picture 24 on the Fear Factor for the episode Think it means something, and should we include it in the trivia section? Plus, if you look at the background of picture 3, you'll see the logo on a computer screen that looks -entirely- identical to the Dalek's technology! UPDATE: Also, The Master's ring had this logo embossed onto it, but was taken by a woman (possible his wife, Lucy) during the series 3 finale. King Wagga 10:40, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

It's interesting, but it's original research. Please put it on a Who wiki (I think there are one or two such wikis) but not in this encyclopedia. --Tony Sidaway 13:05, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Okay, there's a reference for this now. Check out the text (quotation) accompanying this design drawing of "Saxon's Ring." According to Peter McKinstry: "There was no grand plan in designing the Lazlabs logo. BBC Grahics provided it for ep 6, and I thought it looked a bit too Gallifreyan. But when it came to designing the ring, using the Lazlabs logo, with additional Gallifreyan etching on top, tied in nicely. Within minutes of it being shown fleetingly in the trailer for the series' second half, people were already discussing it on the net!" -- Karen | Talk | contribs 10:55, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Quatermass Experiment

Some similarities here, not just the episode name but also the fact that a man becomes a monster and ends up in a church. Also, David Tennant appeared in the remake of Quatermass.

• There was also a line about the experiment being a risk, echoing the opening line of The Quatermass Experiment. (Oh, and Mark Gatiss appeared in the remake too!) P Ingerson (talk) 20:45, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

This week's Radio Times draws the same parallel, but it's in a review, not a statement from the creative team, alas. Kelvingreen 20:51, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Spiderman 3 coincidence (Spoilers)

Is it a coincidence that this episode is broadcast on the UK opening weekend of Spiderman 3. In which near the end there is a scene in a bell tower and the only thing that can destroy the creature is sound. It's clearly not worth a mention on the main article but it is welcome to discussion.--82.27.250.174 21:42, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Of course it's just a coincidence. When the script was being written, do you really think the writer knew the exact date his episode would be screened or the exact date Spiderman 3 would open? P Ingerson (talk) 22:15, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

In fact it is possible that they did, although it would have nothing to do with the writer. It would be the producer or more likely Russell T Davies idea. The UK opening date of spiderman 3 had been in the public domain for quite a long time.--82.27.250.174 08:09, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

• It's a coincidence, in spite of the cosmetic similarities (and the way the writer said it was based on Marvel Comics the publisher of Spider-Man). :) - NP Chilla 10:36, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

To answer in short, it's very possible.~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 21:58, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Anyone who wants to see the original confrontation can look at Web of Spider-Man #1 which had the original showdown in a church with the bells saving the day.

The Spider-Man 3 opening may have been in the public domain but as we've seen with the schedules so far there's been some real possibilities of football and other interruptions getting in the way so I seriously doubt that at planning stage it was definite that this episode would have gone out this weekend. Timrollpickering 21:09, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I think the biggest argument against this is: it would be really dumb. All Doctor Who gets out of this is a charge of being derivative and doing me-too stunts. Since the script for this episode was written some time ago, the episode was in the can a few months back, and the Saturday schedules are all over the place anyway, it seems to me like it would have been too much bother for not much pay-off. --Tony Sidaway 21:56, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, the movie's cathedral bell-tower scene is based on Web of Spiderman #1, which was released in 1985. So it could be a reference to the comic, which is on peoples' minds more because of all the hype over the last year or so leading up to his apperance in the third Spiderman movie. But yeah, the odds of them having tried to time the episode's release so close to the movie's release is unlikely. AvatarMN 18:44, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

The DWM companion for series three mentioned, in its preview blurb, the following "Discover [...]what Spider-Man and Professor Lazarus might have had in common" so I'd guess there is a link there. Did anyone get the book, in order to clarify what it said about the connection? Kelvingreen 18:38, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Lazarus Long

Lazarus Long is also a notable Heinlein character who similarly used a rejuvenation process to extend his life to over 2000 years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazarus_Long

Both Lazarus Long and Professor Lazarus are named after the Biblical character known for his return from death. I doubt there's a direct connection between this episode and the Heinlein character, but if you can find a source that says there is such a connection, go ahead. Kelvingreen 18:52, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Time Lord Regeneration/Lazarus' Experiment

Shouldn't we clarify what references were made by the Doctor that liken the Lazarus experiment to Time Lord Regeneration? "On a number of occasions, the Doctor notes the similarities between the Time Lord regeneration process and Lazarus' experiments." -- "On a number of occasions" does not seem detailed enough to me, and gives the impression that it is over several episodes, rather than just in this episode. Asta2500 04:43, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

That was me, and yes, I think I could have worded it better. :) Kelvingreen 18:48, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Typo

• While playing the church organm the Doctor mentions that he's going to "have to turn it up to eleven"

I can't fix it because the page is locked. How come anyway? 81.152.204.162 09:08, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

• Create an account and then you'll be able to correct it. It also helps for a sense of identity on Wikipedia. Unfortunately you may need to wait a few days to be able to edit semi-protected articles so create an account today to avoid this problem in future. JameiLei 20:33, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Why Protected?

Why has this page been blocked from being edited by some people? 86.156.47.173 09:12, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Well? 86.156.47.173 17:35, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Apparently someone kept inserting silly speculations about the identity of various individuals, and it was easier to semiprotect than to keep reverting. If you have something to add just put it on the talk page and if it's good someone will add it. --Tony Sidaway 17:54, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

So is it going to come off at somepoint then? 86.156.44.31 12:30, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

There's no need to be impatient. Yes, it probably will come off at some point.--Rambutan (talk) 12:49, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I've requested its unprotection on Wikipedia:Requests for page protection (WP:RFPP for short). --Tony Sidaway 12:50, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Actually, the protection log makes it look like it's been unprotected, but the padlock-symbol is still there. Any ideas?--Rambutan (talk) 12:52, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I've unprotected and removed the tag per Tony's request at WP:RFPP, as I said there, let's see how it goes. Ryan Postlethwaite 12:53, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

"There's no need to be impatient. Yes, it probably will come off at some point."

Who is being impatient? I only asked a question and its not like i have anything to add to the article. 86.156.44.31 13:31, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Welsh Parliment Building

I've removed a section from the Plot which states that the party was held in the Welsh Parliment Building. However I'm unsure where to intergrate it into. A reference can be taken from the corresponding Doctor Who Confidential. JameiLei 20:14, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

I added it to the bit about what David Tennant said at the Children in Need concert, as he was referring to location shooting near the concert venue. It might also be good to have a note about the three cathedrals connected with this episode: St. Paul's, mentioned in the commentary as the one they originally planned to feature, Southwark, which Lazarus is fixated on in the final version, and Well, the Cardiff stand-in for Southwark. -- Karen | Talk | contribs 23:18, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes - it was actually *filmed* in the Welsh Parliament building, which was doubling as Prof. Lazarus's funky high-tech (London based) lab. PaulHammond

Southwark & Wells Cathedrals

Under the Production heading the model in Lazarus' office is identified as being of Wells Cathedral. I assumed this was an error since Southwark Cathedral was the one featured in the episode and the one the character had an emotional connection to (Wells Cathedral was used for filming the interior Southwark shots). I made the change but please revert it if I'm incorrect in my assumption as I doubt I could make a visual identification of the cathedral the model is based on solely by its appearance in the episode. --djw230 5:39, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Bunsen Burner

Someone should add this to trivia. The gas that emits from a Bunsen Burner can only explode an a very precise purity for the mixture with the surrounding air, therefore it is impossible that when he flicked the switch for it to explode, it would take a lot of time for it to reach the right purity. A pure source of the chemical, more often then not would not explode, in fact.

For more detail see Bunsen_burner where they go on about it in the operation section. 22:57, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

This shouldn't go into the article. Doctor Who is fiction, not documentary. --Tony Sidaway 12:51, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Similarly I removed "There is no record of Southwark Cathedral being used as a bomb shelter as mentioned - its lack of a large crypt makes this unlikely"

Putting these items into the article doesn't tell us about the episode, only about the contributor's willingness to comb the episode for presumed errors. It's original research, basically. --Tony Sidaway 13:01, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

"He's my plus one"

Didn't the Ninth Doctor say the equivalent about Rose in The End of the World? Loganberry (Talk) 22:30, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the line might be an allusion to that one but w/o a reference I think it might be too ORish to mention. I did pick up on it though. --GracieLizzie 22:39, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Music cue

The music played live at the reception is clearly "Martha's Theme", as identified in the Doctor Who Confidential episode "Meet Martha Jones". Is that sufficient reference? The episode mentioned that it would be played and developed throughout the season, but did not mention this episode specifically. -- Karen | Talk | contribs 04:40, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

enigmatic paymaster

it says the trap by the enigmatic paymaster will close on sound of drumbs and/or last of the time lords what is the trap?Genda change help us 15:10, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

We don't know yet but it will be revealed in The Sound of Drums allegedly. All strictly hush hush obviously.

Anon

Refference to a pervious Doctor?

Might just be me, but honestly, the rejuvinated version of Lazarus does bear more than a passing resembalance to Doctor #5. I don't know if this was meant to be, or simply a coincidence, but I thought it was worth mentioning. If they ever make a show along the lines of "The Ten Doctors" then they should get that guy to play the 5th. :) NemFX 03:58, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

It's a coincidence. Specifically, a coincidence of the fact that Mark Gatiss looks a little bit like Peter Davison. (Meaning: He's tall, slender, and blond. That's about where it stops. Oh, and they're both British, which as a point of resemblance is fairly unremarkable unless you're not.) Seriously, that's just what Mark Gatiss looks like. FeRD_NYC (talk) 16:32, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Bad Science

Not a damning thing on its own, of course, but the "junk DNA can actually code for something, in fact it's a monster" myth was previously used in a TNG episode.. I forget the title. Probably something like 'evolution' or something. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.21.221 (talk • contribs)

There's a lot of SF television, film and literature which deals in cod ideas about genetics. Why should the Voyager ST:TNG episode be significant? --Mark H Wilkinson ^{(t, c)} 09:44, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

I suspect the anon is thinking of Genesis (Star Trek: The Next Generation), in which Data utters the immortal line "Captain, I believe the crew is de-evolving." (The notion is, of course, rubbish.) I agree with Mark that the similarity isn't noteworthy. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 10:11, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

See Also

A "See Also" section has been added, containing a link to List of Doctor Who serials. This doesn't seem to be standard practice for story articles, but I thought I'd ask for input rather than simply removing it. --Mark H Wilkinson ^{(t, c)} 20:17, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm not involved in any Doctor Who wikiprojects, so idk if it's standard practice; probably not. I visited this page, and I then wanted to check the page to which I linked. I had to get there in a roundabout way, so I figured this would be a useful see also link. If you or others feel it is not a sufficient reason, feel free to revert. Carl.bunderson 20:23, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, there's a link to List of Doctor Who serials from the word "episode" in the lead and the phrase "Series 3" in the infobox, but neither of those is particularly intuitive. Perhaps the thing to do is to add a "list of serials" link at the bottom of Template:Doctorwhobox? —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 20:28, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I obviously missed those. Your suggestion about the bottom of the template sounds good, Josiah. Carl.bunderson 20:33, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

s's

Currently, the article makes a reference to "Catherine Zeta Jones's marriage" and "Lazarus's office." I'm certainly not familiar with the use of the apostrophe in all the English-speaking world, so have to ask--it that the proper form in England or in some other English-speaking country? From what I'm used to, it would be "Catherine Zeta Jones' marriage" and "Lazarus' office" as shown here[1]. However, it could also be as it appears in the article.[2] Thanks to whomever can give me a grammar lesson! Wakedream (talk) 06:49, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

The "Professor"

A cut scene shown on the the season 2 DVD reveals that the Doctor participated in the drafting of the United States Declaration of Independence and he has the original copy in a pocket of coat. I think this detail should be added, because it is an interesting tidbit and it seems to tie the Doctor in with the legend of "the professor" a shadowy figure who supposedly showed up at the last minute to convince the founding fathers to sign the declaration. 206.72.46.150 (talk) 03:09, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Non-sensical sentence

"According to David Tennant during the commentary for this episode, David is actually present in the scene where Francine Jones slaps the Doctor; remarking that it had been accidental but because it had been so successful, it was left in". I'm removing this because it makes no sense at all. Re-add it if you know what it's meant to mean please. U-Mos (talk) 18:21, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Although having said that, it shouldn't be in the continuity section even if its meaning is notable... U-Mos (talk) 18:29, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

disagreements

1. I would argue that an actual quote from the dialog, [Doctor declares] "we need to turn this up to eleven." is more appropriate than a characterization, "that it was necessary to turn it up to eleven," and just as clear. I'm open to counter-arguments, particularly from Wiki vets, but I think using the actual quote is more Wiki-ish, and absent further objections, I think I should re-insert the quote.

• No counter arguments? I'm putting back the direct quote. Jeff (talk) 10:27, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
• Also removed quotes around "pulling out the stops". If it's literally (and it was), then it isn't quoted. Quotes are for metaphors (and Trix are for kids). I added a link to the Wiki entry that discusses it. Jeff (talk) 10:34, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

2. I thought the mention that this episode builds up to learning more about Harry Saxon was appropriate, especially following the comment immediately above it. There were at least two or three mentions of Saxon in this episode, he's clearly behind the project and told that agent to bad-mouth the Doctor to Martha's Mum. This would seem to be a pretty clear indication -- particularly since "Drums" et al are not new anymore, so we know about it in retrospect -- that Saxon is becoming a major character; I don't see what's subjective. I think this is at least as significant an actual fact as the item above it -- to which my comment was a sort ot add-on, which is why I put it where I did. This is the section that notes references to other episodes, is it not? This would seem more significant a continuity point, than, y'know, whether the Doctor used his screwdriver or if Daleks went through a whole episode without saying "Exterminate". Perhaps it could be tightened up to resolve subjectivity concerns -- any suggestions? (I gave it a shot) -- but I definitely think it's worth a mention. Jeff (talk) 23:12, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

• Well, I obviously disagree that it's OR. There seems to be an ongoing debate about exactly what constitutes OR, particularly in the context of a fictional oeuvre, whether a prima facie fact (which I contend this is) needs an external citation. But I've had my say, I'll leave it here. Jeff (talk) 20:27, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
• And, just to be fair to all concerned, I just took another look at the "Original Research" help page. There's a case to be made that it is, in that I hadn't seen anyone else mention it, and it's not common enough knowledge to fall into the "Paris is in France" category. So, strictly speaking, I need to find some "Doctor Who" discussion forum where someone points it out. Thing is, it seems to me that a strict interpretation of that standard would require throwing out a lot of "Continuity" (e.g., the the comment about the flag being "reminiscent" of Gallifreyan) and "Cultural References" (the Catherine Zeta-Jones comment). So, y'know, I don't want to sound like I'm whining, and as a newbie, I welcome gentle corrections and fair critiques, and I do want to understand the standards and customs of the community, but I'm seeing some inconsistency that's making that a bit tricky. Jeff (talk) 05:24, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

"up to eleven"

Not sure if it makes sense to mention the phrase in the "cultural references" section without noting to what it refers. Why include it at all if you're not going to mention Spinal Tap? At least a footnote. It would be like noting that the Doctor said "all the world's a stage" without noting the originator, which, of course we did. From the Wiki page on "The Shakespeare Code":

• Examples of this include the Doctor telling Shakespeare that "all the world's a stage" (from As You Like It)

Jeff (talk) 23:30, 25 December 2010 (UTC)