Talk:Truce term

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Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
April 9, 2009	Peer review	Reviewed
April 28, 2009	Good article nominee	Listed

Current status: Good article

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Comments[edit]

I've started this article. Its 'under construction' and I have sources so please don't rush to delete it!

One point I would like a view on is whether to call it Truce term or Truce terms. So far I've gone for the plural and redirected 'truce term'. Fainites ^barley 21:48, 2 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

citation[edit]

Playground Talk, Wellington: Victoria University, School of Linguistics and Applied Language Studies, 2003, pp. viii + 127 {{citation}}: Text "Bauer L, Bauer W" ignored (help) This was added wiythout any material from the source being added.Fainites ^barleyscribs 19:25, 27 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

note[edit]

Dutch use momentje with two fingers raised like peace sign.Fainites ^barleyscribs 21:06, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

(Personal communication)Fainites ^barleyscribs 21:38, 3 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In the primary school i went to (in Cambridgeshire, UK) we'd play "It" (more popularly known as "Tag"), when somebody was immune from being "It" they'd use the term Boozy. There would also be a place you could stand or touch to make yourself Boozy (this changed every playtime). It would also apply if you were running an errand for a teacher. 86.129.60.79 (talk) 14:59, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

We used to call it "He". If you were the chaser you were "he". I think there could well be an article on the use of safe base words like boozy, if there isn't one already. It seems to be a more universal concept in children's games than a truce term. Truce terms appear in most European countries and their european ex-colonies like USA and Australia but I have yet to find a truce term from a non European society. The problem I have though with this article is the need for sources! What were the criteria for being immune from being "It" ? Fainites ^barleyscribs 19:53, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

exchange from french wiki[edit]

exchange about French truce term Google translate gives thumb, pax and inch as translations for "pouce". Fainites ^barleyscribs 19:53, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

[1]Fainites ^barleyscribs 21:06, 10 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Info. from Ulster/Ireland[edit]

Common terms in Ulster - barley and pays (probably from peace). From the Ulster Scots Language Society. Fainites ^barleyscribs 06:30, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately personal communication only.Fainites ^barleyscribs 16:35, 1 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

web discussion Includes "in Ireland tax is used in the historically English-speaking area around Dublin, while keys dominates elsewhere. "

no mention of "uncle"?[edit]

no mention of "uncle"? Ling.Nut ^{(talk—WP:3IAR)} 10:36, 1 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Uncle Who? Fainites ^barleyscribs 12:35, 1 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think it means surrender not truce though.Fainites ^barleyscribs 16:35, 1 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. "Uncle" means you're surrendering (usually while in a fight), and is not a "truce term" as defined by this article (words asking for a temporary respite from game play). — LinguistAtLarge • Talk 19:25, 1 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps there's another article in that called Surrender terms. Fainites ^barleyscribs 21:16, 1 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Blog info[edit]

Where I grew up in southern England, we didn't have cooties; I never heard the word until I met some Americans as a teenager. We did have an identical game called "fleas", though; you could touch someone and chant (not say) "fleas", and then that person "had the fleas" and was expected to pass it on. They WERE allowed to give you the fleas back unless you had your fingers crossed and chanted "Cross keys, you've got the fleas" immediately afterwards. However, you could do the equivalent of your "cootie shots" by miming injecting yourself and saying "flea injection nine nine nine" (this being the British telephone number for the emergency services)– we didn't call injections "shots". cf jecs.Fainites ^barleyscribs 21:30, 1 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

More possible sources[edit]

Here are some sources from Google books. They might be useful. [2], [3], [4], [5], [6]. I believe the first one shows that both barlay and pax are used as truce terms in Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. — LinguistAtLarge • Talk 20:33, 2 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I'll work my way through them. That one you added from "Northern English". Is Wales quoting the Dictionary of American Regional English do you think? Its a bit unclear from her book. I'd like to try and pin some date on when this was recorded if possible.Fainites ^barleyscribs 15:40, 3 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've searched the Dictionary of American Regional English and can't find a mention of barley being used in those states - or at all in the US. I wonder where Northern English got it from? Fainites ^barleyscribs 20:52, 3 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

On Sir Gawayne - it says His holly-bough symbolises peace-"pax" in both christian and the schoolboy sense (compare his barlay in l. 296, a word which still survives among school children as a truce term). I don't read this as the Knight using the term. Either the author is trying to explain the meaning to readers in terms they would understand, or he's saying its interchangeable when used in that sense - but I'm not sure it is evidence of use in that way in the 14th century. What do you think? Fainites ^barleyscribs 20:53, 3 May 2009 (UTC).Fainites ^barleyscribs 20:52, 3 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

re "Local Historian"[edit]

I don't appear to be able to source the following: Beckwith I, Shirley R. (1975), "Truce Terms: a Lincolnshire Survey", Local Historian 11 (8): 441–4 Any help? Is Local Historian the British Association for Local History?

Its the name of their journal. If you contact them directly they'll send you a copy of the article.Fainites ^barleyscribs 17:40, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

link to discussions on other pages[edit]

response[edit]

Israel Fainites ^barleyscribs 15:33, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Russia Fainites ^barleyscribs 19:28, 4 May 2009 (UTC) Google translate ="Four-four - I have to move" Fainites ^barleyscribs 07:41, 5 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Indonesia Fainites ^barleyscribs 19:29, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Poland

Canada Fainites ^barleyscribs 19:32, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sweden Fainites ^barleyscribs 20:41, 8 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Germany

no response yet[edit]

I did something sneaky: I interwikilinked this article to ru:Чур. If we're lucky, this might invite somebody over from Russian wikipedia to help. Διγουρεν_{Εμπρος!} 09:39, 7 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Cool! Do you think there is enough information using Vasmer to put in a short Russian section? Fainites ^barleyscribs 16:33, 7 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Russian Dic. link; Мужские гениталии при защите от нечистой силы могли заменяться жестом — положением кисти левой руки на сгиб правой и поднятием последней вверх или называнием фаллоса. Есть основания предполагать, что таким защитительным словом было у вост. славян и у болгар слово чур, имевшее древнее значение 'penis'. Этимологию этого слова, в котором начальное č могло чередоваться с k (ср. *kurъ 'penis' и *kurъ 'петух'), подтверждают фольклорно-этнографические данные. (В статье: Гениталии )

В. Даль. Толковый словарь живого великорусского языка. Т. IV. M., 1955.

ЧУР стар. грань, граница, рубеж, межа; и поныне || край, предел, мера. Не ступай за чур, за черту. Не лей, через чур; это чересчур много, мало, против нужного, должного. По чур наше! || Арх. хрящеватая отмель, коса, гряда; нвг. чура, хрящ, крупный песок, дресва. || Чур, нар. и мжд. выражает условие, уговор, запрет, требование, постановляя что правилом, законом, мерилом, пределом. Чур меня! въ играх, не трогай меня, я в стороне. Чур меня от него! нвг. смл. не хочу его. Чур молчать! Чур пополам, о находке. Чуръ одному — не давать никому! то же. Цур ему, юж. ну его, чур с ним. Чурá! тер. чур, стой или не тронь, более в играх. Чурáть, кричать чур, оговаривая что хочешь. Чурай скорее находку, поколе кто не увидал! Чураться, ограждаться словом чур, зачурать себя самого. Чурайся от вражьей силы. Черти круг да чурайся, кричи: чур меня! || Быть чураему. || Уговориться в чемъ, и связать слово чуром. || Чураться чего, кого, юж. зап. удаляться, не любить, не хотеть, ненавидеть. Чураюсь я его, бегаю, удаляюсь, ненавижу. Чурáнье, действ. по гл. Чурáтель, —Чурáтельница, чурáла об. кто зачурал что. Чуровóй, к чуру относящ. Если верно, что в Сиб. местами говор, чурить, вм. чурать, то вероятно чурила, чурилья отъ этого. Чуровáться каз. зачураться заговором от чего, заговориться, дать себя заговорить. Чурукать вор. чурать и чураться. || Чурукать. чурюкать, вор. кур. вор. чирикать, свирестъть, откуда чурюкан, сверчекъ. Вычурать находку или зачурать ее. Насилу отчурался от него. Мы с ним почурались, уговорились. Перечурай снова.

No mention of S&M truce terms?[edit]

What about in S&M? In sado-masochist games there are "truce terms" where one partner lets the other know that the game is over and to stop the play. —Mattisse (Talk) 15:53, 6 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

See Safeword. Fainites ^barleyscribs 21:52, 6 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That's a different concept. Furthermore, at least in the Western culture, safewords are not specified by tradition, and may be agreed upon separately for every episode. Διγουρεν_{Εμπρος!} 09:37, 7 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I can see 'safeword' is a different concept, but 'safewords' seemed to be what was being described above. I don't have any information to suggest 'truce term' is used in the context of BDS&M. All sources gratefully recieved!Fainites ^barleyscribs 16:35, 7 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Japanese[edit]

Hi. I look the question in ja:Wikipedia:Help_for_Non-Japanese_Speakers#Truce_term. And, I did the answer that I can.--110.1.192.122 (talk) 17:17, 22 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much indeed. Thats wonderful.Fainites ^barleyscribs 17:35, 22 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]