Talk:Vampire Survivors

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20 Minutes Till Dawn

I was reading the orphan article 20 Minutes Till Dawn and saw that it was inspired by Vampire Survivors. Is there a place for this fact on this page? JohnLaurensAnthonyRamos333 (correct me if I'm wrong) 21:27, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

On being a roguelike

@ThisNameTagPasses: I fully agree that VS does not meet many of the requirements of the Berlin Interpretation, but it is original research to apply the Berlin Interpretation ourselves to determine how VS should be classified; we must go by what reliable sources say, and most call it a roguelike or roguelite. And on Wikipedia, because of how poorly defined the difference in roguelike or roguelite in RSes (even though our page tries to spell it out) we have taken to calling any roguelite as "roguelike" as to avoid any further original research. — Masem (t) 14:54, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okie dokie, I get what you mean. I hate that it has to be like this, since even the steam page refers to the game as only having "roguelite elements" and not as actually being a roguelite, but I get why it's described as a roguelike here, even if it's wrong. Thanks for explaining. ThisNameTagPasses (talk) 15:01, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You were in the right, but for the wrong reasons. Trying to explain why something isn't X or Y like you did there https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vampire_Survivors&oldid=1205822026 isn't the point of Wikipedia, but, the only source cited for the game's genre (Ars Technica) explicitly calls it a Roguelite.

Shameful this site has this bad of an editorialism despite the tenet of WP:NOR being widely known sitewide 2A02:1210:6C6C:AD00:3494:A06E:80C:BCCB (talk) 13:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP:NPOV, possibly WP:UNDUE and WP:OR

Despite several reliable sources stating otherwise. The page incorrectly claims the game is a roguelike.

Ars Technica calls the game a roguelite.
Ign says the game has roguelike elements, but is otherwise not a roguelike.
Kotaku calls the game a pseudo-roguelike.

There is also evidence that the term "roguelike" is too vague and inconsistent to be usable in this context.

These are all the definitions for the term "roguelike"

https://www.masterclass.com/articles/roguelike-game-guide (Applicable)

https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/what-are-roguelike-games/ (Missing procedural generation)

https://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=Berlin_Interpretation (Not applicable)

https://www.greenmangaming.com/blog/what-is-a-roguelike/ (Not applicable)

https://www.cloudfallstudios.com/blog/2020/7/13/what-even-is-a-roguelike

Furthermore, due to the involvement of editor Masen, I believe this page is someone personal pet page per WP:OWN.

https://sigma.toolforge.org/usersearch.py?name=Masem&page=Vampire_Survivors&server=enwiki&max= 2A02:1210:6C6C:AD00:1112:5B18:F185:3D6D (talk) 19:46, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Roguelite" is a neologism that falls under the general umbrella of "roguelikes", games that feature some aspect of the rogue genre. There is no WP:NOR here, and definitely no WP:POV issue. There also isn't an WP:OWN issue, Masem is just the one who replied/reverted and there was no need for others to weigh in. Roguelike is perfectly valid, with sources using a combination of both, sometimes in the same article. One encompasses the other, and the definitions are disputed and unclear. -- ferret (talk) 20:23, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

They are both neologisms and they both have dubious definitions.

Having text not reflecting what's found within sources invites people to fix the article. You know that, don't be surprised if someday the article gets extended protected due to edit-warring. 2A02:1210:6C6C:AD00:1112:5B18:F185:3D6D (talk) 21:42, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why would it be? You're the only editor who has made a fuss about what everyone else recognizes is unclear and varied in all the sources for this game. Your battleground mentality here and at the NOR noticeboard over which nebulous neologism, one of which sorta includes the other, is appropriate is just... strangely heated. -- ferret (talk) 22:14, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've seen other editors on other articles fight on the roguelite term as they want to keep "roguelike" as pure as poosible but that was an effort that has long since sailed. Masem (t) 22:27, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

like how bronies are a category of furry but not necessarily the other way around, roguelites are a category of roguelike

following wiktionary's definitions, roguelites are "like roguelikes but a little less roguelikey", so my vote on this exceedingly important discussion is a loud, resounding "eh"

it'd be like saying hollow knight isn't a platformer because it's a metroidvania (whatever that is) first cogsan _{(nag me) (stalk me)} 11:22, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]