Talk:Yamam

More info

The "prohibited from publication" needs more info. Wikipedia is not based in Israel so Israeli laws do not bind it from publishing the information. The issue is that the information is kept secret and we do not know who heads Yamam in part due to these laws in Israel.

Password link

Password restricted links? I dunno, what does official wikipedia policy say about this? ManicParroT 01:30, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

In the hole country is no unit which uses Glock 21 primarly. What is this "Palestinian" here? Its an Israeli unit in Israel and nothing more.--Benny men (talk) 19:26, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Browning Hi-Power

In the article about the Browning Hi-Power the YAMAM-unit is credited, do they still use this weapon? Or was it phased out in favor of the Glock-pistols? --Exodianecross (talk) 02:04, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

Name

יחידה מרכזית מיוחדת translates to "special central unit", not "special police unit" (I'm an Israeli Hebrew speaker). Any disputes? כרסומת (talk) 07:10, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

Agreed. It should be changed. Not a native Hebrew speaker or even fluent but even I knew that there's no word in this acronym which means "police". Someone should update the English translation of the name of the unit to prevent confusion. In fact, the name was just published with the wrong translation in a November 2018 Vanity Fair article about the unit. TheDanLevy (talk) 14:56, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Motto

The translation of the motto is "I have pursued mine enemies, and overtaken them: neither did I turn again till they were consumed" (KJV translation) and it's taken from Psalm 18:37. (18:38 in the Hebrew source). Please add it as I cannot edit the article due to lack of permissions. TheStriker (talk) 12:34, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

Continuous removal of the awards section

@Nableezy, I'm not entirely sure why do you continuously remove the awards section? The unit has won the highest decorations in its nation. Just like a cyclist winning a Tour de France, or a singer winning American Idol are not self promotion, I don't see a SWAT unit winning the highest award possible as a promotional statement. Bar Harel (talk) 19:50, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

Isn't it the only unit of it's kind, ie the only counter terrorism unit, ergo it has no competition? The competitions you mentioned are actual competitions, international, and open to all - thus they have substance and international coverage, not just local fawning. Iskandar323 (talk) 21:18, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

Have you even read the awards you've deleted? They're international competitions hosted in California. The additional decorations by the general of the army are among all the units in the army, which includes a hundred others. I fear you're clearly coming with a certain agenda, otherwise you can remove all of the decorations from all of the army units in Wikipedia. Most of them are national. Bar Harel (talk) 05:21, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Please read and internalize WP:NPA. nableezy - 07:17, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

My attention was drawn to this page because of it's generally shit state of sourcing, and it remains far from having its cleanup tags removed. And random parochial handouts from the Alameda County Sheriff's office, however overseas, are still rinky dink little awards of zero significance by almost any real measure of significance, and fall broadly under WP:PROMO. Iskandar323 (talk) 06:20, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Also, feel free to go and remove rinky dink awards from other pages. I really won't object. Iskandar323 (talk) 06:22, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Because they are promotional fluff that isnt treated seriously by sources as an "award". Highest award possible in what? A shooting competition put on by the IDF between police units in Israel? So what? A source like police1, clearly promotional, is your idea of reliable. And as far as your edit summary, what our article actually says is The Islamic Jihad Movement in Palestine (Arabic: حركة الجهاد الإسلامي في فلسطين, Harakat al-Jihād al-Islāmi fi Filastīn), known in the West simply as Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), is a Palestinian Islamist paramilitary organization formed in 1981. and later which states have designated it as a terrorist organization. Beyond that please read WP:WESTBANK before you again restore calling something "Judea and Samaria", and WP:NPOV before calling something a "terror cell", and WP:BLP for calling somebody "an arch-terrorist responsible for many lethal terror attacks". nableezy - 07:16, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

1. You removed the highest honors by the IDF for operational excellence over a few years.

2. The references include the official government website and the IDF website. I believe the IDF and the government know well enough about which awards do they give, unless you call an official government website an unreliable resource.

3. I find it peculiar that right after I state something taken from a different Wikipedia article, it is suddenly removed. For reference, I'm putting back what the article said: The Islamic Jihad Movement in Palestine (Arabic: حركة الجهاد الإسلامي في فلسطين, Harakat al-Jihād al-Islāmi fi Filastīn), known in the West simply as Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), is a Palestinian Islamist paramilitary and terrorist organization formed in 1981.

4. You wish to remove the "arch-terrorist", you can, but what you did was clearly not a WP:NPOV edit as you removed half the article and changed things to a way that suits your point of view better. You can change it to "according to various sources, he is a terrorist responsible for many lethal terror attacks", and add references. That is very accurate. You chose to re-shape the entire article instead.

5. I didn't call anyone anything. I simply reverted the article back to its original state before it was heavily modified by you, and before an entire section was redacted. I would happily call for an arbitration on this one if you really wish. I'm pretty sure I'm not only one who understands that "gov.il" or "idf.il" are government websites, but I'd love to bring a few more opinions about their accuracy and "promotional" aspects. Bar Harel (talk) 12:37, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Government websites are primary sources, they dont establish weight for inclusion. As far as terrorist, no it was suddenly added and then rightfully removed as a NPOV violation. And no, we dont say "according to various sources", that would be weasel worded pov-pushing, for a living person at that, and no we are not going to assign responsibility to criminal acts they have not been convicted of based on an enemy state's view of him. And finally, when you revert an edit you take responsibility for all parts of the edit. I did not change things to suit my POV, and you have no idea what my POV is. I changed things to reach a NPOV, which is what a Wikipedia article is supposed to follow. That it does not any longer resemble a .gov.il or idf.il propaganda page is a good thing, not a bad one. As far as calling ror arbitration, idk how it is on the Hebrew Wikipedia but here arbitration means the arbitration committee and they do not rule on content, only user conduct. If youd like to raise an arbitration enforcement request or open a case you are of course free to do so. You may have to explain why you violated WP:WESTBANK and put in to the article BLP violations like calling a living person an arch-terrorist and responsible for many atrocities without a conviction or attribution. nableezy - 12:47, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

I didn't put anything anywhere. You have both primary sources and secondary sources for the awards given. If you wish, I can add a dozen more sources, as they are the highest awards given by the IDF. I undid once your change as a whole, a change which removed well referenced material. It's not weasel worded POV pushing, when you have numerous national and international sources. Lastly, government websites which includes the list of awards given by the government are perhaps the most accurate source. Bar Harel (talk) 13:00, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

What does I didn't put anything anywhere mean? You made this revert, which means you took responsibility for its contents. And yes, "according to many various sources, he is a terrorist responsible for many lethal terror attacks" is indeed weasel worded and POV-pushing, and a violation of WP:BLPCRIME. So let me make that clear as well, per BLP that was removed, and absent an affirmative consensus for it restoration of it also is a BLP violation. I do not dispute the accuracy of the government websites for a government award. I dispute its significance to be mentioned here. One thing has nothing to do with the other. If you provide some secondary sources to establish weight for them then sure. nableezy - 13:51, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

There are plenty of sources, we can simply list the international sources, such as "according to CNN, ...", but again per the title of the discussion, that is not what I care about as much. I'm sure some compromise can be made on that.

The significance of a medal or honors from the general chief of staff of the IDF is the highest decoration that a unit can receive. It is equivalent to a medal of honor in countries such as the United States. It is hard to dispute such significance. I take full responsibility for reverting those removals. Bar Harel (talk) 23:40, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Ok, I returned the honors part. The trivia on the shooting awards and police competitions I kept out. nableezy - 23:49, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Sounds like a good solution to me. Bar Harel (talk) 00:36, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 November 2023

In the history section, the last photograph has a link which refers to the same page (YAMAM). It should be removed. Thanks- z Zair58 (talk) 13:09, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

 Done Thanks you. Liu1126 (talk) 14:24, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Name/acronym

The name's clearly an acronym, as reflected in the many later ALLCAPS YAMAM stylings. But the intro really obfuscates, and gives the full name as the Hebrew 'translation' of the abbreviation. I think it's "ימ״מ", but I might be wildly mistaken on that. But the correct Hebrew acronym should be given before the full name, making clear that the term indeed is one. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 17:20, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Arnon Zmora

The name is Arnon Zmora, not Zemora or Zamora. 77.124.8.72 (talk) 20:18, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Report on warning from US State Department’s Democracy, Labor and Human Rights bureau

Several elements of this report should be included as relevant:

"Lewis asked the bureau to expedite its review and “urgently” explain any opposition to specific arms packages for Israel, according to the emails. Lewis resigned in July.

Christopher Le Mon, deputy assistant secretary at DRL, recommended denying more than a dozen arms packages, including grenade launchers, gun parts, rifles and spare rifle parts. In a reply to Lewis, he cited concerns about the “conduct” of specific Israeli National Police units, including the elite Yamam border patrol unit.

Le Mon wrote that there were “numerous reports” of Yamam’s involvement in “gross violations of human rights.” DRL raised objections against 16 separate arms packages for Israel, according to the email and a source familiar with the matter. Nearly all the shipments went ahead despite the bureau’s objections, the source said. Yamam’s missions eventually included a June 8 rescue of four Israeli hostages that Gaza health officials say killed more than 200 Palestinians."

The Reuters source can probably also replace the existing Times of Israel source regarding deaths on June 8th since: it's arguably a more neutral source, a bit more removed from the conflict than the TOI; offers context for why the mission and that casualty figure might be important and relevant; and also does not make dismissive or inflammatory reference to Hamas in citing the high casualty figure, instead plainly mentioning the Gazan Health Ministry instead. Nandofan (talk) 18:47, 4 October 2024 (UTC)