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Template:Did you know nominations/Caiazzo massacre

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:11, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

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Caiazzo massacre

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  • ... that Germany's refusal to extradite the perpetrators of the Caiazzo massacre caused outrage, because of the unusual brutality of the murders?
    • ALT1:... that Caiazzo is a sister city of the hometown of the perpetrator of the Caiazzo massacre?
    • ALT2:... that the perpetrator of the Caiazzo massacre evaded prosecutors due to his unusual surname?
    • ALT3:... that the perpetratorleader of the Caiazzo massacre on 13 October 1943 was accidentally released after he confessed to the crime?
  • Comment: I think this is all the more appropriate as it is actually the 75th anniversary. Turismond (talk) 06:22, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

Created by Turismond (talk). Nominated by Catrìona (talk) at 03:50, 23 September 2018 (UTC).

  • The final approval will follow soon as Earwigs is currently down, but so far so good: it meets the newness and length requirements and a QPQ has been provided. Article is adequately sourced as well. Of the hooks, ALT3 is the least interesting, and ALT0 seems a bit too routine, so my preference is either ALT1 or ALT2 (with a slight preference for ALT2 in particular). Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:44, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
@Catrìona: Seems alright. The problem is that the article does not outright say anything about the unusual surname. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 04:09, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

Fair enough—the sources mention that it was misspelled but do not explicitly blame the unusualness of the surname for this fact. How about a fact that I just added to the article: Catrìona (talk) 05:00, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

  • ALT5:... that Wehrmacht Lieutenant Wolfgang Lehnigk-Emden apologized for committing the Caiazzo massacre, but refused to face a criminal trial?
Honestly I'm not so sure; I don't really thing refusing to face trial is uncommon with these sorts of things. If ALT4 can't be used, ALT1 might work better, but context would be important in the hook itself (i.e. were they sister cities because of this incident, or is there no direct relation?). Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 12:25, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
They were sister cities explicitly because of the incident and it was done while Lehnigk was still alive. I'm not sure how to incorporate that into a hook, though. Will think about it. Catrìona (talk) 15:50, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
@Catrìona: Considering the requested date is fast approaching, the issue needs to be addressed as soon as possible. I'm actually willing to approve ALT1 as is, but I think it still needs to be changed a little to be a bit more hooky. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 22:59, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5: Another attempt is below. @Turismond: Any ideas?

ALT6... that Caiazzo became a sister city of the hometown of the perpetrator of the Caiazzo massacre after Germany refused to extradite him?
I'm fine with ALT6 and am ready to approve it, I'm just waiting for Turismond's response. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 23:43, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
I'm happy with it, no objection from my side. Turismond (talk) 23:46, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
Thank you. Approving ALT6; Earwigs also detected no copyright violations. Special date request approved. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 23:52, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
  • Hi, I came by to promote this, but ALT6 and its sister hooks are focusing on something totally other than the bolded subject and are distracting rather than hooky. I think ALT3 is the best hook and will certainly draw clicks. However, the hook fact doesn't appear in the article; it says nothing about him confessing, just bragging to another POW. I did some copyediting on the article and cannot understand this sentence, as it has too many clauses; perhaps it should be broken into 2 sentences?
  • At Monte Carmignano the 3rd Company of the 29th Panzergrenadierregiment had been taking defensive positions, under threat of advancing American forces and harassed by local partisans which had already resulted in the execution of local civilians in the weeks before. Yoninah (talk) 22:26, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
  • Thanks, Yoninah. plus Added the explicit statement that he confessed to the massacre. Turismond, perhaps you could clarify what you meant by the above sentence? Catrìona (talk) 22:45, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
  • Thank you, Catrìona. Please also see my editing under "Capture and escape" and the hidden note I put there. There are a lot of POW camps mentioned in this paragraph; perhaps they are all the same one? I couldn't read the sources. Also, I added the 2 cites after the second sentence about his confession; please check to see they are correct. Yoninah (talk) 22:53, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
  • I have gone through the sources again and rephrased a few sentences as well as a added the map from the Volturno Line article which may clarify the overall military situation at the time of the massacre. I have also split the above mentioned sentence. Hopefully its a little clearer now. Turismond (talk) 07:45, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
  • Thank you, it is clearer. I'm still willing to go with ALT3 (changed "perpetrator" to "leader"), but what do you think about this alt hook?
  • ALT7: ... that the leader of the brutal Caiazzo massacre on 13 October 1943 eluded arrest for nearly 50 years because authorities were searching for him under the wrong name? Yoninah (talk) 15:01, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
  • The hook itself is a good idea but you could possibly change for over 40 years to for almost 50 years. The massacre was on 13 October 1943 and Lehnigk-Emden was arrested on 15 October 1992, that would make it 49 years and 2 days. Turismond (talk) 15:29, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
  • Nice. I made the change and added in the full date. We need a reviewer for ALT7. Pinging Narutolovehinata5. Yoninah (talk) 17:42, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
I still prefer ALT6 and wished that we'd go with that instead. With that said, the objections raised about it are reasonable and ALT7 is also a good alternative. Since ALT7 is cited inline, it should be good to go. My only suggestion would be to remove the word "brutal" from the hook (and have done so accordingly). Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 01:31, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
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