Template:Did you know nominations/Florence Fang

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:01, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

DYK toolbox

Florence Fang[edit]

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The Flintstone House, 2007
The Flintstone House, 2007
  • ... that Florence Fang is being sued for causing a public nuisance with her Flintstones-themed house (pictured)? Source: "Florence Fang's colorful home is a landmark for many in California's Bay Area. But the town of Hillsborough is suing her, declaring the property a ‘public nuisance’" ([1])
    • ALT1:... that ...?

Created by Edwardx (talk) and Philafrenzy (talk). Nominated by Edwardx (talk) at 23:03, 11 May 2019 (UTC).

  • New enough, long enough, policy compliant. Hook is of interest and is appropriate length. Picture is also policy compliant. No QPQ done as of this review. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 15:20, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
Just a question: while I think the hook is catchy and hooky, doesn't it count as a BLP violation? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 01:52, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
I'm not seeing the BLP issues for ALT0 and think it has more appeal than Alt1. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 22:42, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
I think it might be a good idea to ask for a second opinion on this then. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 10:46, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
Agree that the original hook is a bad idea from a BLP perspective. Rule 4 states "Articles and hooks that focus unduly on negative aspects of living individuals or promote one side of an ongoing dispute should be avoided." Given that Fang is countersuing for violation of "her First Amendment rights, discrimination and emotional distress" makes me think this is not an issue to splash on the mainpage. Spokoyni (talk) 21:41, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
That's fair enough. I would argue that the dispute with Hillsborough could be phrased in a more neutral manner and is of interest than the buying of dinosaurs. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 21:57, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Alt2 ... that Florence Fang lives in The Flintstone House (pictured)? Spokoyni (talk) 16:49, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Considering the issues with ALT0, ALT1 and ALT2 are probably our best options here. Both hooks are cited inline and verified, though I have a slight preference for ALT2. Should be good to go once the QPQ is done. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 03:26, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
I get that there's the desire to have the picture but think that lacks pizzazz. I would suggest ALT3 Florence Fang was the first Asian American owner of a major daily newspaper? source (also in the article but I think this one is a stronger source). Of course this isn't going anywhere until there is a QPQ. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 03:41, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
I don't think it's necessarily because of the picture, I mean ALT2 can work even without it. It would probably interest readers that someone lives in a house that is based on The Flintstones. ALT3 is also nice (and for interest of reviewing, also meets DYK hook requirements), and could work out as an alternative if in case ALT2 doesn't work out. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 03:53, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
It would be a huge waste not to use a Flinstones hook and the picture. Philafrenzy (talk) 07:25, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
We could try a compromise hook that combines both hook facts, though I'm not sure if it would fly Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 15:22, 26 May 2019 (UTC):
ALT4 ... that Florence Fang, who was the first Asian-American owner of a major US daily paper, lives in The Flintstone House (pictured)?
I'm happy with the compromise hook above, but perhaps "major US daily paper" might be better for a global audience? Edwardx (talk) 15:52, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
What about keeping it simple with Alt1 and Alt2? Philafrenzy (talk) 19:49, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
I personally have no problems with ALT1 and ALT2 and in fact ALT2 is my preferred hook, but Barkeep49 has objected to the Flinstones house mention as "lacking pizzaz". And I don't really understand why you're against ALT4 when it's a compromise that highlights both an interesting part of her life and the house she lives in. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 01:58, 27 May 2019 (UTC)
Alt4 is a bit clunky, joining two unrelated things just for the sake of a compromise that isn't needed when there are already good hooks that readers will love. We have a Flinstones themed house with a picture, it's clicking gold. The newspaper claim is weak by comparison and liable to be challenged for definition as "firsts" often are, e.g. "Asian-American", "major", U.S. centric, etc. Can you tick Alt1 and Alt2? Philafrenzy (talk) 06:13, 27 May 2019 (UTC)
If you really want ALT1 or ALT2 to run, you'll need to convince Barkeep49. They're the ones with the objection, not me. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 06:48, 27 May 2019 (UTC)
Barkeep49 Philafrenzy (talk) 08:04, 27 May 2019 (UTC)
I still think ALT 1 is weak but I'm not willing to necessarily throw my body in front of it. My bigger question is why are we having all this discussion when there has been no QPQ done? Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 14:32, 27 May 2019 (UTC)
@Edwardx: Are you okay with the hooks proposed above about Fang's Asian-American ancestry, the hooks about The Flinstones House, or ALT4 (the compromise hook that mentions both)? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 10:48, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
I am fine with all of those hooks, as long as we can show the house. I have tweaked ALT4 from "major daily paper" to "major US daily paper". Edwardx (talk) 10:57, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
I have already said it but the newspaper stuff is boring and I find the "Asian-American" stuff a bit patronising. She clearly has a great sense of fun and I see no reason not to stick purely with the Flintstones. It's not like she accidentally created a Flintstones themed house. Philafrenzy (talk) 11:14, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
Edward (who is the original nominator) said he's fine with any hook though, and the reviewer isn't really fond of the Flinstones hook as it is, though. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 11:23, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
I was OK with the original hook but others fairly expressed BLP concerns. Also she didn't accidentally create a Flintstones themed house she intentionally decided to move into an existing one. Still shows something about her but let's get our facts straight. I don't think being the first of something is patronizing but fair enough on your end. What if we focused on the improvements she made rather than its existance or the the quote sans context. Something like Alt 1A: ... that Florence Feng added outdoor decorations to the Flintstones House she bought saying "I see a dinsoaur I buy it"? Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 13:38, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
Thanks but what is wrong with the more concise Alt1 ... that when Florence Fang sees a dinosaur, she buys it for her Flintstones-themed house (pictured)? It's not negative, it's accurate, and (I know I wrote it) pithy? Philafrenzy (talk) 19:04, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
I don't think it has appeal but I'm not willing to throw my body across the tracks so sure I'll go ahead and say ALT1 is and the sysop who comes along can make their own judgement. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 21:12, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
Agree with Philafrenzy, ALT1 is the hook we should run with. Edwardx (talk) 09:37, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
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