Template:Did you know nominations/Holy Trinity Church, Cork

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by FITINDIA 06:39, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

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Holy Trinity Church, Cork[edit]

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  • ... that Father Mathew built his own memorial church? Source: church is also called 'Father Mathew Memorial Church'; "Fr. Mathew suggested building a new church when the South Friary became too small for the congregation" (Blackamoor Lane Friary, Cork Past and Present.ie)

5x expanded by Maltrópa (talk). Self-nominated at 03:01, 21 January 2018 (UTC).

  • I'll be reviewing this. Of course this is entirely optional: you might consider adding a pic to this nomination. If I recall DYKs with pics get more pageviews ;-) While this doesn't affect the review, the History section is so brief it looks more like a Trivia section.– Lionel(talk) 10:23, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
  • Article is new enough, long enough. No copyvios. The first hook failed verification hook not in source. The source for ALT1 is offline, so I'll approve that hook based on WP:AGF :-) QPQ done. – Lionel(talk) 02:14, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
  • Hi, Lionel, and thanks for the review! I'm not sufficiently smitten with any of the photos we have of the church to stick one on the front page, but I'll consider adding one tomorrow if this hasn't gone anywhere by then. Hook one could be changed to "... funded his own...," since (as is cited from Curtin-Kelly) Mathew covered 45% of the original projected cost, if it's a more interesting hook than ALT1. There seemed to be very little written about the church's social role except on its own website, but I could probably get another paragraph or two out of it in a pinch. It does currently have the unfortunate appearance of a trivia section, rather than the post-construction History I was going for, but a second trawl of the sources might turn up more info to remedy that. ~ Maltrópa loquace 03:18, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
  • Feel free to add your proposed hook at ALT2. A method of handling the History is to delete the boundary wall and rename to Significant Events along the lines of this Notre-Dame_de_Paris#Significant_events. – Lionel(talk) 03:39, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
  • I think the solution is to brand it as a Social History section and briefly skim the Capuchins' role in Cork, since I don't think there's enough events of significance to call it 'Significant Events'. There are, though, a great many potential hooks in this article, but I'll stick with the Fr Mathew theme with a tweaked first hook: ~ Maltrópa loquace 11:15, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
  • ALT2:... that Father Mathew funded his own memorial church? (Curtin Kelly, p. 31)
  • Well, imo "funded" might give the impression he underwrote the whole thing. Something like "almost half" or similar would be more clear. – Lionel(talk) 12:30, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
  • A rereading shows that Fr. Matthew paid £4,800, and that the total cost was £14,000 in 1840. There's also the site prep £1,600 which looks like it was in addition to the £14,000. So Father paid 31%? – Lionel(talk) 12:42, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
  • The article doesn't say anything about the actual act of dedication to Fr. Matthew; nor when it was given the second name, "Father Mathew Memorial Church." Did this happen when he was alive or posthumously? The following has nothing to do with the review and is entirely optional... An Infobox would be helpful to have stats and dimensions at a glance Template:Infobox_church. Speaking of infoboxes, I'm curious, what is the capacity? – Lionel(talk) 12:55, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
  • I was working off the initial figures exclusively, which might be a tad misleading especially seeing as the 1880s' plan to complete the church probably cost up to about £6,000 on top of that £15,900 (I believe the £300 payment was separate to construction costs but I'm not clear on that). I'm content with ALT1, in any case, so I'm not too fussed about this one — just thought it'd somewhat humorous that Mathew funded (even if only partially) what ultimately became his own memorial. I'll have to re-peruse my sources to see when it was dedicated (almost certainly after he died), though it is universally agreed that it is named his memorial. I haven't seen capacity anywhere, though it was reduced when the church was renovated. I also don't recall any source being thorough enough to fill out an infobox, but I'll make another attempt at it this evening. ~ Maltrópa loquace 13:00, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
  • I've added an infobox but couldn't find anything about the size of the church in the digital sources. Curtin-Kelly's book (evidently the definitive source) offers no indication as to the dedication, although this 1908 newspaper article refers to it as Father Mathew Memorial Church. I imagine the dedication dates to its completion in 1890, though articles such as this from 13 October 1890 only refer to it as being to his memory, not a 'Memorial Church' by name. As an aside, I do note that the article from 10 October refers to it as "the church built by Father Mathew," but I don't expect an official dedication will be forthcoming. ~ Maltrópa loquace 01:21, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
  • Infobox looks great! Yeah, sometimes finding sources can be challenging. Anyway I'm striking ALT2. Great job, article look good.– Lionel(talk) 01:31, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
  • ALT1 Approved: just in case anyone is confused by our chit chat.– Lionel(talk) 01:31, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
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