Template:Did you know nominations/Siegfried Borris

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 20:13, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Siegfried Borris

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... that Siegfried Borris lectured at the Musikhochschule Berlin from 1929, was dismissed by the Nazis, but from 1945 taught as professor, composed for young players and became president of Deutscher Musikrat? Source: [1]

Reviewed: Guy J

Created by LouisAlain (talk), Grimes2 (talk), and Gerda Arendt (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 15:04, 12 January 2021 (UTC).

Gerda, too much is being packed into the hook to qualify it as remotely hooky. Can you give it a trim please? Yoninah (talk) 22:48, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
Sorry to jump in again, but how about keeping just the main points, like this:

ALT1: ... ~~that Siegfried Borris was dismissed from Musikhochschule Berlin by the Nazis, but after ~~WW2~~ World War II returned and became a professor there, and later president of Deutscher Musikrat?~~

--LordPeterII (talk) 23:09, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

... only that the main point about this person is the music for young people. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:10, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

Hmm, okay then maybe

ALT2: ... that music educator Siegfried Borris was dismissed from Musikhochschule Berlin by the Nazis, but after ~~WW2~~ World War II became a professor there and president of Deutscher Musikrat? [2]
ALT3: ... ~~that Siegfried Borris lost his job at Musikhochschule Berlin under the Nazis, but after ~~WW2~~ World War II became a professor there and composed music for young players?~~

or even more catchy (might be too short for you, but I like it):

ALT4: ... ~~that the Nazis prevented Siegfried Borris from teaching music to young people?~~

That's about it with my ideas for now, but you could mix&match some parts. I am not sure which ones you'd like to keep Gerda Arendt. --LordPeterII (talk) 21:51, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for the offers. You are right that the last is a bit too short for my taste, because ultimately, they didn't prevent it ;) - "lost his job" could be a job as a cleaning person, "WWII" is unacceptable for the Main page. My version:

ALT5: ... that Siegfried Borris, who taught music at the Musikhochschule Berlin, was dismissed by the Nazis in 1933, but became professor there after ~~the war~~ World War II, and composed music for young players? [3] --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:02, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Full review of article needed now that there are other hooks proposed. (Struck the original hook that Yoninah found problematic.) Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 06:30, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Reviewing... Flibirigit (talk) 20:00, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

Cited: - ?
Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Article created on January 5 and nominated within seven days. Length is adequate. Article meets sourcing requirements. Article is neutral in tone. No plagiarism issues detected. Proper attribution for a partial translation from the German Wikipedia is noted on the talk page. The image in the article is properly licensed on the commons. QPQ requirement is complete. All hooks from AL1 to ALT5 are reasonably interesting. I am concerned about the inconsistent usage of the school's name. The hooks use "Musikhochschule Berlin", where as the article uses "Staatliche Akademische Hochschule für Musik in Berlin". This will be confusing for non-German readers and makes it difficult to verify the hook. Preferably the same name for the school should be used in the hook as in the article. Also, WW2 and WWII should be spelled out as "World War II". Overall the article looks to be in good shape and I will be happy to revisit the hooks with the minor changes as noted above. Flibirigit (talk) 20:29, 5 February 2021 (UTC) Flibirigit (talk) 20:29, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for the review. I can't find WW2 and WWII, sorry. The school's name is a problem, admitted. Musikhochschule Berlin is a general name which is a summary of all different long names in history. It's a problem that the English article doesn't have the different names under History, while the German one has them under de:Universität der Künste Berlin#Geschichte. I'd like to keep the short name in the infobox at least because the other one (when he learned) is a monster. The present article name was not a name while he was active. - Having written that, I see that Grimes2 unified the name. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:54, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

I have updated the proposed hooks above with "World War II". I will continue the review shortly. Flibirigit (talk) 21:42, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

I have struck ALT1 since its wording is less optimal than ALT2 which says the same. ALT2 needs a citation directly after the end of the sentence "Under the Nazi regime, he was dismissed in 1933 at the instigation of the Kampfbund für deutsche Kultur." which supports the part of the hook. ALT3 and ALT5 cannot be approved yet since nowhere in the article does it explicitly say he composed music for young players. I have struck ALT4 since nowhere in the article does it say he was prevented from teaching music to young people, and he could have done so privately. Flibirigit (talk) 22:16, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for explaining, - I looked at the article for WW2, not in the hooks. - I duplicated the ref for the 1933 sentence. The source also says "All dies hätte den Beginn einer erfolgreichen künstlerischen, pädagogischen und wissenschaftlichen Karriere markieren können." (All this could have marked the beginning of a successful artistic, pedagogical and scientific career.) which was summarized as "promising". I also added a ref to the sentence about his focus on educational works. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:37, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

I notice that in the "Publications" section, his "Poem collections" are not cited, and some of his "Books" are not cited. Sorry, I neglected to mention this sooner. I am still working through the hooks. Thanks. Flibirigit (talk) 22:57, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

They are all in this archive. I need sleep. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:15, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

I added a fair use image of Siegfried Borris. If there is a public domain image somewhere, please substitute it. I also added the citation for ALT2 into this template. Let me know when you're ready with ALT3 or ALT5. Flibirigit (talk) 01:13, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Flibirigit, thank you so much for the image, - really adds life! I sourced the books, and gave the archive as ref for the poems. One of his poem collections was set to music by someone else, so must exist ;) - abebooks has many titles, many more actually, but I don't know how acceptable that is for a source. ALT5 is more precise. Some of his book titles are quirky but very German, such as Kulturgut Musik als Massenware (Cultural asset Music as a mass product). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:13, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for the changes. I did some copyediting for grammar and duplicated one citation to support ALT5. I agree that ALT5 has a more optimal wording and have struck ALT3. ALT2 and ALT5 are approved as both interesting, properly mentioned inline and cited. All publications are now cited. Article adheres to all other DYK criteria. Flibirigit (talk) 14:40, 6 February 2021 (UTC)