Template:Did you know nominations/Susan Montgomery Williams

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:48, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

DYK toolbox

Susan Montgomery Williams[edit]

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  • ... that Susan Montgomery Williams was not only the world record holder in blowing the largest bubble gum bubble, she was arrested at least three times for making "sound explosions" with the gum and while popping in the courtroom one day, the bailiff mistook the sound for a gun? Source: "Susan Montgomery Williams, 47, had TV fame from bubble-blowing". Press Telegram. 2008-10-08. Retrieved 2019-03-09.
    • ALT1:... that you can get arrested for making "sound explosions" with bubble gum as world-bubble-blowing champ Susan Montgomery Williams discovered during her career?
  • Comment: Please include this dyk in the April Fool's edition.

Created by Barbara Page (WVS) (talk). Nominated by Barbara (WVS) (talk) at 19:17, 9 March 2019 (UTC).

  • Drive-by comment: neither hook sounds suitable for April Fools methinks. ALT0 is too long, and ALT1 has possible BLP implications. Please suggest alternative hooks. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 13:47, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
There's not BLP issue since subject's been dead 10+ years. EEng 01:21, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
  • I don't see any value, really, in a joint nomination, and neither of the proposed hooks is April Fools material because they have no "fooling" quality and could run any day of the year. There may be some AFD potential in
ALT2 ... that champion bubblegum-blower Susan Montgomery Williams died when her aneurysm popped?
but honestly, even that one could run any day in the "quirky" slot. EEng 01:21, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
I don't see the problem. I wrote it specifically because it would be one of those topics that would make people wonder....? PPerfect for April 1st. I like the short alt2 version. I don't want to lose the arrests that she enjoyed but WP is all about consensus. Best Regards, Barbara ✐✉ 19:02, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
I don't know, while I think ALT2 works, in its form, it could work even as a hook on a quirky slot and not necessarily an AFD hook. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 11:57, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
To clarify, a full review is needed of the article and of the only remaining hook, ALT2. This is no longer eligible for April Fools' Day. Original hook has been struck as far too long (275 prose characters). BlueMoonset (talk) 15:06, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
Since this has been stuck for a while, I'll leave a comment for ALT2. The problem with it is that the "pop" wording is nowhere in the article, and while I understand it's a pun, it still means the hook wording doesn't exactly reflect the article text. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 12:20, 21 April 2019 (UTC)
That's silly. Dying "of an aneurysm" means the aneurysm burst; the article text doesn't have to literally say "burst" (much less "popped"). It's no different than if a watchmaker had a coronary and the hook said that his "ticker pooped out". EEng 14:39, 21 April 2019 (UTC)
  • I don't like ALT2, making light of someone's relatively recent death isn't really on (though I've done it in places like Template:Did you know nominations/Vine Street, London, the subjects have been dead for centuries), and ALT1 discussing the arrest of someone isn't particularly suitable for the main page either. The article doesn't appear to be factually accurate, in addition to the issue spotted by Narutolovehinata5, the source says "She came to court first for gum-popping at a Smokey Robinson concert in Fresno and again, in 1990, when she was arrested" (which doesn't mention when the concert incident actually happened) but the article says "In 1990 she was arrested at the Fresno Fair after her loud popping disturbed a Smokey Robinson concert". So I think it's time to drop this one. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 22:11, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
Hooks about being arrested are not prohibited from the main page though, and in fact we've had quite a few that discuss that very aspect. It only becomes a problem if there are BLP concerns involved, but there's no consensus that we should ban arrest-related hooks. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 03:36, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
The article remains problematic but I don't think that this nomination is unsalvageable. There would need to be some copyediting (in particular the last paragraph), but I can still see some potential sources for hooks that avoid the topic of her death. Perhaps a hook about her television appearances, or her being featured in a magazine? @Ritchie333, Barbara (WVS), EEng, and BlueMoonset: Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 02:17, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Suggesting new hooks below, to see if these could be possible ways to move forward:

If these don't work out, this probably would have to be closed as unsuccessful. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 12:18, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

  • Reviewer needed to check the four new ALT hooks. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:44, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

I withdraw this nomination. Best Regards, Barbara ✐✉ 12:40, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

I don't know if withdrawing this is the best option considering there are still outstanding possible hooks that are ready for review. I suggest not closing this unless those are reviewed. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 14:56, 5 May 2019 (UTC)


General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
QPQ: None required.

Overall: The article was created and nominated on the same day, therefore it is new enough. The length is adequate at over 1700 words. The article is neutral in tone, with adequate sourcing. I detected no plagiarism issues, and quotes are properly attributed. There is no photo in the article, therefore a photo cannot be used in this nomination. I also not that the photo included here in this nomination may not be accurate anyhow. The nominator does not have any DYK credits, therefore QPQ is not required. Will review new hooks shortly. ALT0 was previously stricken. I have struck ALT1 as it too broadly implies that anyone would be arrested. I have also struck ALT2, as making fun of a death does not seem appropriate or funny. ALT3, ALT4, ALT5 and ALT5a are all properly mentioned in the article and cited inline as per this source These four are approved with no preference noted. Flibirigit (talk) 19:57, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

  • Hi, I came by to promote this, but after looking up other sources which are more definitive, I would like to edit this a little. I also found new information which would make a better hook. Putting this on hold briefly. Yoninah (talk) 12:20, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
  • OK, I edited the article and added some refs. The Smithsonian article citing her 22-inch bubble "claimed to be a record at the time" looks like it was referring to her Guinness World Record bubble. I don't find any of the later alts, ALT3, ALT4, ALT5 and ALT5a, as hooky as they could be. Could we work on something around her courthouse arrest?
  • ALT6: ... that champion bubblegum-blower Susan Montgomery Williams was arrested for disturbing jury selection in a murder trial by popping gum in the courthouse hallway? [1][2]
  • ALT7: ... that bailiffs who heard champion bubblegum-blower Susan Montgomery Williams popping gum in a courthouse hallway thought a .38 caliber pistol had been discharged? [3][4]
Yoninah (talk) 20:35, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
  • I have re-reviewed the article with the recent changes. I detected no plagiarism issues, and all quotes are properly attributed. The article is still neutral in tone, with adequate sourcing. I see nothing written in the sources about jury duty. Flibirigit (talk) 22:11, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
  • It says "jury selection". Yoninah (talk) 22:20, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
  • It does not say jury selection in either of here or here, which are at the end of paragraph in question in the article. Please check again. Did you meant to use a different citation? Flibirigit (talk) 22:49, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
  • @Flibirigit: sorry, I found the right cite and added it to the article. Here it is: Source: "World champion bubble gum queen Susan Montgomery Williams went on trial Friday for popping her gum so loudly outside a murder trial courtroom that bailiffs claimed it sounded like a .38-caliber pistol going off. ... bailiffs Dana Crittenden and Richard Wilhoite testified they repeatedly asked her to stop popping her gum in the hallway outside a courtroom where a jury was being selected in a murder case" (UPI). Yoninah (talk) 00:14, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Great, approving ALT6 and ALT7. I still approve of the previous hooks, ALT3, ALT4, ALT5 and ALT5a without any preference. Flibirigit (talk) 01:39, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Of the new hooks, I think ALT7 is the better one to be honest. ALT6 still has too much focus on an arrest, which while not prohibited is probably too bad spirited for this kind of hook. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 09:39, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

As the creator of the article, I am thrilled to see it go through the review process. I would like this DYK to appear on the main page on 4/1/2020. Thanks for all the hard work you all put in to rescue this nomination. Best Regards, Barbara ✐✉ 21:39, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

I don't think any of these hooks could work for AFD, so this probably could run as a regular hook instead. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:52, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
I also feel that the hooks are best suited for a regular DYK day. It's too bad we didn't notice the anniversary of her courthouse arrest earlier in May. This should be promoted soon to a regular prep set. Flibirigit (talk) 02:13, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
Unfortunately, this is not eligible for April Fools' Day 2020, having been nominated prior to AFD 2019. It will have to proceed onto the main page in the normal way. BlueMoonset (talk) 03:48, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
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