Template:Did you know nominations/Sutton twin towns mural

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by  — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:53, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
AFD closed; tick reinstated

Sutton twin towns mural

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• ... that you can see all of Sutton's European twin towns without leaving Sutton High Street in London, just by looking up at the twin towns mural?

Created by A P Monblat (talk). Self nominated at 13:58, 1 September 2014 (UTC).

• Article creation date okay. Article length okay. Hook length is okay, but a little wordy – something shorter would be more mysterious. Neutrality is okay. But there is definitely a copyvio/close paraphrasing problem; if you look at the Borough of Sutton press release and this article side by side, it's clear that the second is a copy-and-slight-rearrangement of the first. If you find some more sources and intermix material derived from them in with what you have now, that usually goes a long way towards solving this kind of problem. And you really need more secondary sources anyway.

There are also some other issues with the article:

• There are four twin towns and Sutton itself; that should be five paintings total, what are the other two?
• "The others include the Sutton armillary and the Sutton heritage mosaic" is an aside, and would be better in the article body than in the lead.
• "(a suburb of Copenhagen)" doesn't need parentheses - make your usage parallel to the others in this list.
• The Gallery isn't very useful. Only the second photo adds much to the top one. Instead, would it be possible to get a detail close-up of one of the paintings?
• The references need fuller formatting.
• Category:Murals in London should be added.

Not all of these are requirements for DYK, but as a newcomer to WP, you should be encouraged to follow best practices from the start :-) But the copyvio/close paraphrasing problem is a disqualifier for now. Wasted Time R (talk) 00:52, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for taking the trouble to look at this so thoroughly. I will work my way through your points, but it may take a day or two. The paraphrasing issue should be easy enough to deal with, even if I can't find many more sources. I agree a close up of one of paintings would be excellent; however, there are aren't any on Wikimedia Commons, although there is one in the Sutton Guardian article I sourced. I have so far found one more source from Flickr which clarifies about the towns - there are four plus one with a "friendship link". In the meantime, I propose below a couple of new shorter hooks which will be more intriguing (and hopefully get more hits!). ALT2 is probably the more intriguing and to that extent my favourite. A P Monblat (talk) 10:25, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

• ALT1 ... that one can see all of the London Borough of Sutton's European twin towns without setting foot beyond Sutton High Street?
• ALT2 ... that one can see all of the London Borough of Sutton's European twin towns despite not having a passport?

I have now pretty much dealt with the pointers. The bits which were close the source's text I have now rewritten in my own words. I've added additional sources, and identified what the two smaller paintings portray: one is identified in the main source as Sutton's plant (beech); and the other (by looking at an enlargement of the photos) features a handshake. What do you think of the article now? A P Monblat (talk) 16:38, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

The gallery has been removed by another editor, and I have added back the best of the photos as a single image in the body of the article. A P Monblat (talk) 10:01, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

I don't think the article really makes clear what the seventh painting is. But the copyvio/close paraphrasing concerns are pretty much alleviated and most of the other article improvements have been made, so we are okay to go up. And I think ALT2 should be the one. Wasted Time R (talk) 13:30, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

• Promoted hook pulled from queue; article nominated at AfD. DYK nomination is now on hold until AfD concludes. BlueMoonset (talk) 14:42, 10 September 2014 (UTC)