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Request Denied

I suggest you report me. --Kim Bruning 06:34, 9 April 2007 (UTC) Full disclosure: I believe that if you get a hold of an admin, they will be more likely to block you than myself. Perhaps you'd like to discuss things ?

Good luck. --Kim Bruning 06:41, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Hi

Hi Pat, I've blocked you for 3 hours because it appears you need to calm down. Discussion is best done through a back and forth dialog, not Templating the regulars (this is futile and unconstructive). Kim will most likely be willing have a conversation with you on your userpage, where you are still able to edit. John Reaves (talk) 06:49, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Cyclepat: Looks like you succeeded :-/ Can we stop ruleslawering now, and just talk please? I'm quite willing to hear your position. Why do you want editor assistance to join the association of members advocates? --Kim Bruning 06:57, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

I think you are avoiding some side issues here. You have removed some comments from the talk page. As an experienced user you should know better then to delete other peoples comments. I take this as an attempt to escalate the situation to see who can be the biggest WP:DICK. You know dam well that you are supposed to archive such conversations, let alone NOT REMOVE THEM. I have nothing further to discuss tonight regarding your total lack of respect for wikipedia's WP:CON. Frankly, your persistant lack of WP:AGF and my ability to realize that the conversation should propably or maybe be closed early is unervering. You have indicated that you wheren't please with my attitude prior to any of your "REVERTS" of my attempts to have a discussion per WP:RM. Every attempt I have tried to do which is suggest per wiki's guidelines for discussion and concensus are REVERTED. I am enfuriated with your actions. Before you say anything else, I think you had best find someone else to talk me... or appologize because I don't I can't see any of the suggestions of your clearly. Any accusations you have against me feel pale compare to what you have done. Right now, I don't even want to see or hear your "(bad word here)" name and I wouldn't careless about discussing the AMA related issues... until we have resolved the conflict of your vandalism and cunning attitude toward a Good faith attempt to have a discussion. Goodbye... at least for a little while. --CyclePat 07:15, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
Certainly, RM is a suggestion. But note that it should only be used with discretion, (as with all wiki procedures). The same is true with regards to templates, and accusations of vandalism.
If at some point you have cooled down, and would like to discuss things further, my talk page remains open. --Kim Bruning 07:41, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Leave Editor Assistance in peace

Leave it in peace, please. No more abduction attempts. Let them alone, they have the right to exist. And AMA has not the right to be the exclusive place for user assistance. We have a competion ahead: let's win it fairly and people will decide who's better. --Neigel von Teighen | help with arbs? 16:24, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

I will not leave in peace until my comments are returned and or archived in the talk page. There is nothing offencive about them and nothing that warrant the removal. My attempts to have a discusssion as you allude in "abducting", are no longer relevant. They have been removed, along with all the other comments from people that clearly voiced their opinion against an RM. We are essentially back at square one when user:Kim Bruning keeps removing that conversation/survey. As per WP:VAN you can not remove goodfaith attempt at a conversation. Whatever (within reasonable grounds of not being a plain out attack) someone says should be archived and preserved for future reference. Please place the conversation back in it's location. You may be interested to know that propaganda is define as "one-sided information intended either to support or threaten a political or military group."[1] We have advertising attempts to destroy AMA by spreading accusations left and right. We also have, as describe on wikipedia, “Propaganda, in as… a corollary to censorship in which the same purpose is achieved, not by filling people's minds with approved information, but by preventing people from being confronted with opposing points of view.”[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda] In this case, the removal of comments from to the talk page of WP:ASSIST demonstrate how desperate the members of WP:ASSIST and to what extent they are truly willing to do go. A further technique is being used by WP:ASSIST which is called bandwagon, inviting everyone to participate, and Reductio ad Hitlerum, by suggesting and trying to "persuade a target audience to disapprove of an action (AMA) or idea by suggesting that the idea is popular with groups hated (AMA), feared, or held in contempt by the target audience." The conversation and comments regarding AMA and ASSIST (move page/merger), even if it is not a successful conversation as portrayed by some, is an important process of wikipedia’s “building concensus.” Removing the comments or blanking the page prior to finishing such a conversation is a violation of this fundamental rule and on top of that falls within the criteria of vandalism. I suggest the conversation be archived. Again, in short, removing it creates an unfair balance for WP:ASSIST and again, violated WP:VAN. --CyclePat 18:02, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Cycle, let people decide. EA is not a conspiracy against AMA, is an attempt to replace us because they believe we're useless. A respectable opinion I do not agree with. But, I think the best is to show we're efficient rather than discussing it. And people shall decide who's the best. The problem is that EA members, after your merging attempt are angry with you and with reason: you just can't force people to enter a voluntary association like AMA. It's contradictory, indeed.

Ah, please take User:CyclePat2 down. --Neigel von Teighen | help with arbs? 18:07, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Talk with JzG

Hey, I know you probably hate my guts right now. So when you're back, try talking with User:JzG instead. He's already aware of the general situation. Ask him what's up, and why things happened the way they did.

--Kim Bruning 16:26, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't hold grudges for long. That's why JzG and I can still talk. I have left a message, regarding my thoughts... with Neigel. I'm sure we can come to up with something. Perhaps subpage or a quick click box like... Tell me what you think of the edit I just did... Saved for historical purposes. --CyclePat 18:39, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
Hmm, well, by now, you may have noticed the strong smell of wikipolitics in the room. :-( I'm trying to see if AMA can be kept, but now this situation is hurting AMA terribly. If at all possible, talk with both Neigel and JzG (and I do stress you should also talk with JzG), before you make any edits at AMA or EA, for now. --Kim Bruning 19:02, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
While I appreciate your good faith effort to reach a compromise, unfortunately we (and in this case, "we" includes you :-/ ) really shouldn't keep that rm in plain view . Talk with JzG, and ask him to come talk with me. In the mean time, please remove the archive. Thank you. --Kim Bruning 19:10, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
And I just saw your recent comments on my talk page. I appreciate you are trying to reach a compromise with me. The current compromise you are proposing (as it lies on the table now) won't protect the association of members advocates, however.
Try thinking about how this requested move will look to third parties.
At the next (almost inevitable) AMA MFD, when this link shows up as evidence for AMA misconduct, I would like to be able to say was that it was a misunderstanding, that it was discussed with the advocates, and that the overal consensus (including AMA members) was to remove the requested move. :-) --Kim Bruning 19:18, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Hey, Pat, have you calmed down yet? ;-) I see you have been a bit nicer to Kim now, which is good. I think we need to let ASSIST run for a bit and see how it works. Guy (Help!) 22:05, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Pat, drop it. Just walk away from the ASSIST talk page and leave it to others to decide what to do there. You are not doing yourself any favours, and you are currently viewed as a disruptive influence. Please, just leave it and go and work on fixing AMA if you can. I strongly suspect that the only reason you have escaped a block thus far is that I have spoken up for you. I can't keep doing that in the face of your own foolishness. Stop. Now. Guy (Help!) 13:33, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
I want to second what JzG (talk · contribs) said. As someone completely uninvolved with WP:ASSIST and WP:AMA, what you are doing at Wikipedia talk:Editor assistance looks extremely disruptive to me. It's time to step away for a bit and let the situation cool down. At this point everything you are doing there is likely only damaging any chance you would have of cooperation between the two projects.--Isotope23 13:49, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
I concur. As you know, at the time of writing, I have no affiliation with WP:ASSIST and am a former member and deputy co-ordinator of the AMA. I'm going to add my voice to the growing campaign to make you stop - all sort of people have commented, from the uninvolved (Isotope23), to the AMA advocates (Imaglang), to the highly respected admins (JzG). As JzG notes - if you didn't have his support, you would probably have been blocked by now for a suitably long period, and that may be about to happen based on the dicussion you started on ANI. I beg you to step back and completely disengage, per the second stage of dispute resolution - a policy you should know well. Thanks, Martinp23 14:04, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Please go do something productive. This obstreperous behavior will not be tolerated any longer. —Centrxtalk • 17:05, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

I concur and was about to post the same thing. See my comment on ANI. Your reference to Hitler in a discussion that grew out of a dispute over whether to merge two pages was egregiously inappropriate. Newyorkbrad 17:06, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Please see my commments at the WP:ANI#WP:ASSIST. The comments that you are removing, I consider to be important for the development of new politics and building concensus. If you remove those comments you are not helping WP:AMA or WP:ED and are essentially trying to bury any issues that may exist. Furthermore, my comments are cited and are taken from wikipedia's article on proganda. There are several techniques which are elaborated on that page. Unfortunatelly, as stated in that article... anthing that refers to Hitler, many people consider bad. But in fact "It is important to understand that those policies advocated by Hitler and his party that are generally considered evil are all condemned by themselves, not because Hitler supported them."[2] You may wish to check that propaganda list and tell me if you feel that another one is perhaps more suitable? In no way do I consider myself an expert in that field but perhaps you or the members at WP:ASSIST may have better knowlege and be able to provide a better sugestion? I am simply pointing people in what I think fall within that definition. Again maybe I am wrong. Do you have another suggestion? --CyclePat 17:29, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Yes. I suggest that you calm down and cease being disruptive and using inflated rhetoric. Newyorkbrad 17:31, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
It is hard to calm down when your edits are constantly stalked by Dev920... and he keeps reverting and removing your comments. Or the poll. Even in the archive. [3]. Why can't you just keep the bloody comments archived? --CyclePat 17:42, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
FYI, I don't think Dev920 is stalking your edits, anyone can see any edit to the WT:ASSIST page with a watchlist. Regards, Iamunknown 18:07, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

WHAT is wrong with this?--CyclePat 17:47, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Request move archive

Hey CyclePat

Steve has been getting complaints fro Editors assist. Please leave them in peace as it is not reflecting well on the AMA. Thanks Æon Insanity Now! Give Back Our Membership! 18:27, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

FYI, Wikipedia:Community_sanction_noticeboard#Page-ban_suggested_for_User:CyclePat --Iamunknown 19:09, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Pat, are you aware that every single one of your edits since April 3rd are related to ASSIST? Just an interesting fact I thought I'd point out. Make of it what you will. --Iamunknown 19:19, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Pat, as Aeon stated, we're getting in hot water over WP:ASSIST. It's a Catch 22 that we're going to have to let alone. :-( אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA)Give Back Our Membership! 20:34, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

You got mail

Please read it and take it to heart. Guy (Help!) 20:28, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

As per my post here, I am going to start running the other way. Please don't trip me while I try to get away. --CyclePat 21:14, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Accepted. Let's talk some more once you get away ;-) --Kim Bruning 22:42, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

It's All Good

When I read your comment, I was going to smite you with the almighty WP Banhammer (TM).. and then I realized.. A)I'm nowhere near being an admin, so.. um.. no banhammer.. (grins sheepishly) and B) what I really wanted to do is say thank you for your consideration, and hope that you continue to contribute to WP for a long long time. Have a great night! SirFozzie 04:03, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Hello again SirFozzie, Well... if I only knew what and where that Banhammer was... then I could throw it away and you wouldn't have been able to smite me. ;) (LOL) Really though, I hope you had the chance to take into consideration my comments regarding the proper venue. Thank you for your consideration and goodnight as well! ;( --CyclePat 04:14, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
Here's a picture of the banhammer [4] (grins). SirFozzie 04:26, 12 April 2007 (UTC)