User talk:Hyacinth/February 14 2014 - 18 July 2015

Where can I find a table like this?

Do you now where I can find a table like this (hopefully better made) giving the spellings of all diatonic and chromatic tones in the commonly used major keys?

	I	I♯	II♭	II	II♯	III♭	III	IV	IV♯	V♭	V	V♯	VI♭	VI	VI♯	VII♭	VII
C♭ major	C♭	C♮	D	D♭	D♮	E	E♭	F♭	F♮	G	G♭	G♮	A	A♭	A♮	B	B♭
G♭ major	G♭	G♮	A	A♭	A♮	B	B♭	C♭	C♮	D	D♭	D♮	E	E♭	E♮	F♭	F
D♭ major	D♭	D♮	E	E♭	E♮	F♭	F	G♭	G♮	A	A♭	A♮	B	B♭	B♮	C♭	C
A♭ major	A♭	A♮	B	B♭	B♮	C♭	C	D♭	D♮	E	E♭	E♮	F♭	F	F♯	G♭	G
E♭ major	E♭	E♮	F♭	F	F♯	G♭	G	A♭	A♮	B	B♭	B♮	C♭	C	C♯	D♭	D
B♭ major	B♭	B♮	C♭	C	C♯	D♭	D	E♭	E♮	F♭	F	F♯	G♭	G	G♯	A♭	A
F major	F	F♯	G♭	G	G♯	A♭	A	B♭	B♮	C♭	C	C♯	D♭	D	D♯	E♭	E
C major	C	C♯	D♭	D	D♯	E♭	E	F	F♯	G♭	G	G♯	A♭	A	A♯	B♭	B
G major	G	G♯	A♭	A	A♯	B♭	B	C	C♯	D♭	D	D♯	E♭	E	E♯	F♮	F♯
D major	D	D♯	E♭	E	E♯	F♮	F♯	G	G♯	A♭	A	A♯	B♭	B	B♯	C♮	C♯
A major	A	A♯	B♭	B	B♯	C♮	C♯	D	D♯	E♭	E	E♯	F♮	F♯	F	G♮	G♯
E major	E	E♯	F♮	F♯	F	G♮	G♯	A	A♯	B♭	B	B♯	C♮	C♯	C	D♮	D♯
B major	B	B♯	C♮	C♯	C	D♮	D♯	E	E♯	F♮	F♯	F	G♮	G♯	G	A♮	A♯
F♯ major	F♯	F	G♮	G♯	G	A♮	A♯	B	B♯	C♮	C♯	C	D♮	D♯	D	E♮	E♯
C♯ major	C♯	C	D♮	D♯	D	E♮	E♯	F♯	F	G♮	G♯	G	A♮	A♯	A	B♮	B♯

Thanks

Contact Basemetal here 21:28, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

I took a stab at the table.

Perhaps this would be part of the topic of scale degrees. There you will find shorter versions which feature only the diatonic functions and roman numerals. The problem with the above table may be that it is difficult to determine where to end. For example, why does the above table not include ♯3 and ♭4? Hyacinth (talk) 09:20, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

But are there such things as ♯3 and ♯7, ♭1 and ♭4? But are there such things as ♯3 and ♯7, ♭1 and ♭4 in major keys? I don't think they exist. I don't think they exist in major keys. I don't think, for example, that E-sharp, B-sharp, F-flat and C-flat really exist as chromatic alterations in C major? Have you ever seen lowered 4th and 1st degree or raised 3rd and 7th degree used in analysis? Have you ever seen lowered 4th and 1st degree or raised 3rd and 7th degree of major keys used in analysis? Contact Basemetal here 20:54, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

If I may intrude on this discussion: I don't know about analysis, but it is very difficult to see how he C♭ in the baritone voice at the beginning of Benjamin Britten's Canticle IV: Jorney of the Magi can be anything other than a ♭4 in G minor, resolving in bar 6 to the B♭ of a first-inversion tonic triad. Britten was extraordinarily skillful at discovering imaginative intervallic relations of this sort, and the first two notes in the piano accompaniment to this same piece supplies my favorite example of unambiguous diminished octaves, G♯₂/ G♮₃, resolving to A₂/F♯₃. (Furthermore, when the bass settles on this F♯, the chord above it includes a second diminished octave: it is a "doubly diminished-fifth ♭8" chord—that is to say, from the bass upward, F♯, A, C♭, E♭, F♮—a cousin of the "diminished dominant seventh" of jazz theory, and the diminished octave cannot plausibly be regarded as an enharmonically spelled because of its stable use in an arpeggio in the countertenor voice shortly afterward). It would not surprise me in the slightest if someone were to find examples of ♯3, ♯7, and ♭1 elsewhere in Britten's output, especially in the music he wrote after the Second String Quartet.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 23:14, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

In major keys? I was saying nothing of minor keys. I was questioning the existence of raised 3rd and 7th and lowered 4th and 1st in major keys. In any case the C-flat is given by the table as a lowered 2nd degree of B-flat major. So there should be no problem with C-flat as a chromatic tone in G minor.Contact Basemetal here 23:35, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

It would be less plausible to find a ♭4 in a major key, I'll grant you (since its natural progression is to the minor-third degree), but Britten's scores would still be the place I would start looking. Another likely composer is Peter Maxwell Davies. Of course, as soon as you have crossed over into 20th-century extended tonality, even the question of whether you are in the major or minor mode may be doubtful, which is why so many composers do not specify a key at all in the titles of their works.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 00:43, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Clearly the table is for clear cut cases. I was wondering where in WP someone could get simple information as to how to spell accidentals according to the key they're in. That's what I was asking Hyacinth about. Now when one doesn't know if one is in major or minor, if one doesn't have an unambiguously defined diatonic set to one's key, if the questions of spelling become complicated and/or ambiguous then of course such a table loses most of its point. Hyacinth questioned why I didn't include columns for ♯3, ♯7, ♭1 and ♭4. Responding, for clear cut cases, the only ones for which this table may be useful, I answered that those degrees do not exist. I still question that in clear and unambiguous C major you'd ever need to spell F as E-sharp, C as B-sharp, E as F-flat or B as C-flat and if that's the case then I think one is entitled to say ♯3, ♯7, ♭1 and ♭4 do not exist in major. If that's wrong and there are examples to the contrary in music from common practice period I'd like to know about them. 20th c. music was not the kind of music I thought this table was for. This said I enjoyed very much your observations regarding Britten's Journey of the Magi (and I went immediately to YouTube to listen to it again) so if you do have examples which do not fit in with my claim, even from non common practice music, even from 20th c. music, I'd be delighted to hear about them, but I would not say such examples immediately would invalidate my answer to Hyacinth. Now after the Journey I went to listen to the Death of Saint Narcissus and I discovered that when an Italian tenor sings it I can make out none of the words. Contact Basemetal here 01:46, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Although there is a certain danger here of making "clear-cut major key" depend on a definition that excludes any chromatic notes at all, I do take your point. There is an issue of where to draw the line, and of course theorists do not agree on things such as whether or not a piece of tonal music ought to be analyzed solely in one key, or if modulations may be considered to take place, and this has a direct bearing on your question. Modulations can always be invoked to explain the presence of this or that chromatic note (unless modulations are not deemed to exist), which only leaves the question of how far modulations may carry the tonality, and this is the nub of the problem. Handel and Haydn should present no problems, Schubert and Berlioz are probably still safe, and so on, until we reach more doubtful cases in the later 19th century, such as Wagner, or Puccini, or … Schoenberg?—so where do we finally draw the line? The classic distant-key conundrum dates back well before the Common Practice Era, and this is Adrian Willaert's compositional jest in response to a request to resolve a dispute about whether the whole tone can be divided into equal semitones: a setting of Horace's fifth epistle, "Quid non ebrietas", in which the final cadence results in the tenor coming to rest on 2 against 1 in the cantus. Of course, this piece isn't in a major key, either, but I think the principle is well illustrated by it.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 03:51, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

So now we even have to entertain 2:-) Whew! Doubly-lowered 2nd degree. It would show better what you and Willaert are proposing if we write the scale degrees in the order of the cycle of 5ths rather than like I did within the octave. So here:

II, VI, III♭, VII♭, IV♭, I♭, V♭, II♭, VI♭, III, VII, IV, I, V, II, VI, III♯, VII♯, IV♯, I♯, V♯, II♯, VI♯, III, VII

These are the scale functions you'd have to accept exist if you accept a doubly-lowered 2nd degree and you insist both voices are in the same key/mode. Incidentally what signature does Willaert's tenor have and what signature his cantus? Contact Basemetal here 05:11, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

The cycle of fifths is precisely the key here. Willaert compose the counterpoint in such a way as to force the tenor around the circle of fifths until it has traversed it twice. The signature of all four parts is one flat (transposed Dorian) but, by the time the end is reached, the tenor has been obliged progressively to add flats (descending cycle-of-fifths) until A has become A. The joke, of course, is that in order for the final octave to be true, the succession of flatting semitones must accumulate to the correct interval. Whether this is to be managed by using theoretical equal-tempered semitones, or by an ad hoc accumulation of various differently sized semitones is naturally up to the performers.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 05:34, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

It's always fun to converse with you. You almost always point to new directions (at least for me). The old Fleming is quite popular on YouTube. A search on his name returns something like 3000 results. There are dozens of videos of "Vecchie letrose" but none of "Quid non ebrietas". I had to be content with an 11 seconds sample of that 2 mins work at the Allmusic site :-( To see how remote (on the cycle of 5ths) the case you mention is, consider that if he had chosen to work in A-flat dorian (a not unreasonable 6 flats signature, or would it have been for that time?) then he would have had to use a B-triple-flat for his doubly-lowered 2nd degree. Speaking of which, there is a minute number of cases of very remote accidentals (C-double-flat, F-double-flat, B-triple-flat, E-triple-flat; E-double-sharp, B-double-sharp, F-triple-sharp, C-triple-sharp). Some of them are listed at Don Byrd's site. I wonder if you've ever looked at any such case. Maybe they are less remote than they look (if the sections where they are found use incomplete signatures because the composers did not want to use double-accidentals in the key signature) but still, they seem to be cases which would not be covered by my table. The earliest example I found in Don's list was a C-triple-sharp in a 1805 work by Antoine Reicha (to use his French name:-) Contact Basemetal here 19:18, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Before about 1620, key signatures rarely if ever venture beyond two flats, and sharp signatures are unknown. This originates from the tone system of chant theory, where the gamut encompasses both the "round" and "square" B (that is, B-flat and B-natural). Especially in the fifth and sixth tones (Lydian and Hypolydian), where the "round" B occurs more often than the "square" one, a one-flat signature may occur. In addition, chants could be transposed—which meant up a fourth. This of course automatically adds a flat to the scale, and this is usually reflected by a one-flat signature—very rarely, in the case of the fifth and sixth tones, a two-flat signature. "Doubly transposed" chants were also possible, but this reaches the allowable limit of two-flat signatures. At this point, the system of musica ficta takes over, which means that all other necessary or desirable sharps and flats must either be written in as accidentals, or simply be provided by the performer, following well-established rules. ("Opposite transposition", for example, which means down a fourth instead of up, must be accomplished without the use of either signature or accidentals, because sharps are entirely outside the system of musica recta.) It is the system of ficta upon which Willaert relies for his little jest: strategically placed flats in the cantus oblige the tenor to follow suit, but the two parts are so constructed that the cantus can spring back to the naturals, while the tenor must keep on adding flats, until at the end the entire line is being performed a whole tone lower than notated. Of course when certain music theorists sing the final cadence, it will not come to rest on an in-tune octave but instead (because of their stubborn insistence on theoretical exactitude) on the badly out-of-tune augmented seventh. Willaert's position is clear: no composer or singer with an ounce of musical nouse would do such a foolish thing—theory be damned! I'm afraid I do not know of an online source for the score of "Quid non ebrietas", but the primary musicological treatment is Edward Lowinsky's 1956 article, "Adrian Willaert's Chromatic 'Duo' Re-examined," in the Tijdschrift voor Muziekwetenschap 18:1–36.

I was not previously aware of Rejcha's (to use the Czech spelling ;-) use of extreme accidentals, but it does not greatly surprise me, considering the metrical extravagance of some of his piano fugues. I have also not known about Don Byrd's website. Thank you for calling my attention to it.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 20:09, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

From the way you put it I take it you had no trouble finding Don Byrd's site. Incidentally, I don't know if you know, but Don Byrd was the designer of one of the first computer music typesetting programs. Moving from Don Byrd's "rooster" (which, coincidentally is a bird) to Willaert's "donkey" -- are you familiar with the French phrase du coq à l'âne? -- how do you pronounce "nouse"? Rhymes with ... ? (browse? blues? prose?). Regarding the "Quid non ebrietas" score: would this contain the score? Or is it just text? They won't let me look at it. Maybe you'll be luckier. To add a comedy note to all of this: you know that the movable do system has no syllables for degrees ♯3, ♯7, ♭1 and ♭4. The designers of that system were apparently of the opinion that you can at least ignore those remote functions for the purpose for which they had designed their system (just like I thought I could ignore them for my table for the reasons I gave above). Now some guy by the name of Kentaro Sato (this article he apparently wrote himself in 2006 -- eight years that article has been around! -- and it contains not one single reference to one single independant verifiable source, for which reason I've nominated that article for deletion), well our Sato thought that it was vital to have syllables for those tonal functions too so he added the "Sato System" to the article Solfege (granted not the best written in the whole of WP). I've deleted that insertion of the "Sato System" not because I did not agree with the necessity to have syllables for those degrees but because I have never heard of the "Sato System" and the only reference provided was his own website. The same Sato has a "Sato System" for orchestration and had added a link to his website to article Orchestration which I've also removed. Mercifully he did not try to actually inject a description of the "Sato System" for orchestration into that article. Now, has anyone ever heard of a composer called Kentaro Sato? The only data I got on Google was from the very WP autobiography Sato had managed to create in 2006 and expand little by little over the years (with never a shred of any reference to any source whatsoever). Did I miss something? Am I being unfair out of ignorance to one of the great young composers of the 21st century? Contact Basemetal here 21:20, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

No problem finding Don Byrd's website, no. It is very entertaining, thanks again for bringing it to my attention. I was not familiar with the French idiom, either, so again, thanks.

"Nouse" (I have also seen it spelled "nowse") rhymes with "house". It comes from the Greek word νοῦς (rhymes with "loose"), which means "intellect" or "wit", but in English has more the sense of "know-how" or "wisdom born of experience" (as opposed to "book learning"). A similar colloquialism drawn from either French or Spanish is "savvy".

I don't seem able to access that article, either, but it appears to be a review (in Early Music Performer magazine, December 2010) of a new edition of the score, so it does not likely include that score. I'm not sure I like the suggestions, found in the sidebar to that page, for where I might find a copy: The top item in the list is the library of my local county jail!

I think I have only just heard of Kentaro Sato, though perhaps it was from his Wikip[edia article, or from one of his interventions on music-theory articles like the ones you mention. He certainly exists (to judge from a quick Google search, which does actually turn up a little beyond his Wikipedia article and Facebook entry) but, like so many composers in American academia, he seems to have succeeded very well in keeping his head below the parapet. I think you are right to question his notability on the strength (or, rather, weakness) of his biographical article, though I hope someone will prove your concerns are unfounded. Every composer deserves all the help he can get, though out-and-out self-promotion on Wikipedia is not the way to do it.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 00:33, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Hi Hyacinth. How are you doing? You had two noisy guests, didn't you? We've left. But I thought I'd stop by to see how you were enjoying the silence:) Contact Basemetal here 17:42, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

After consideration I would say the chart above is not on Wikipedia because Wikipedia is not a handbook, and otherwise I'm doing okay. Hyacinth (talk) 09:32, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Precious

thoughts on music
Thank you, quality editor for more than a decade, for articles such as Adagio for Strings and Dieter Schnebel, for taking care of Pulitzer Prize winners in music and other music, for gnomish work adding templates and categories, for thoughts about learning, - repeating: you are an awesome Wikipedian (3 November 2010)!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:43, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

A year ago, you were the 762nd recipient of my PumpkinSky Prize, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:51, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

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Thanks, I created {{100000 Edits award}} to place on my userpage. Hyacinth (talk) 09:42, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

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Hi

can you please point me to the discussion behind this, thanks! In ictu oculi (talk) 16:38, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

Behind what? Are you saying you don't like the existence of List of music students by teacher, that you don't like the information being removed from the teacher's articles, or...? Hyacinth (talk) 17:07, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

I don't have an opinion, but well it's a large change, it was discussed at WP Classical music or somewhere yes? In ictu oculi (talk) 23:19, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

It doesn't seem like that big of a change to me, but if it is I guess I went with WP:BOLD. (WP:Discussion redirects to "WP:DISPUTE", but since there is no dispute Wikipedia doesn't have the best guides to discussion in this instance.) If you would like to start a discussion, I assume Talk:List of music students by teacher and/or WP:WikiProject classical music would be the appropriate place(s). Hyacinth (talk) 10:55, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

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Wouldn't it be preferable these courtesy accidentals be shown enclosed in brackets for the sake of clarity?

Hi Hyacinth. How are things? I noticed that in this image that you uploaded

the lower part of the image gives a flat to a note which is already flat by virtue of the key signature. In other words that flat is a courtesy or cautionary accidental. Given that there is no context as in a real score, wouldn't it be preferable to enclose that flat in brackets in order to emphasize the fact that it is a courtesy not a necessary accidental? And come to think of it the same applies to the natural of the C. It is true that in real scores courtesy accidentals are rarely enclosed in brackets but there you have a context which clarifies things and scores are meant for an already somewhat sophisticated readership. What do you think? And would that be a lot of work? I have the feeling that many readers who turn to article Transposing instrument where this image is used are beginners, kids and generally people unfamiliar with musical technicalities (who else would need to go to WP in order to learn what a transposing instrument is?) whom it is important not to confuse about elementary matters of notation.Contact Basemetal here 00:02, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Post Scriptum: You may or may not agree with my points, but if you do, and do intend to change the image, please let me know before you do, as I have some other small suggestions to make this image even more useful in the context of article Transposing instrument Contact Basemetal here 01:45, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Simplest sonata form?

Hi again Hyacinth. Just ran into another of your creations:

Simplest sonata form pattern etc.

What is the 3rd section of the exposition supposed to be? The so called codetta? I'm not sure since your caption says this is the simplest possible sonata form while the codetta is not always present. Contact Basemetal here 09:34, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

What do you mean? Are you asking if I agree with the content currently in Sonata form? Hyacinth (talk) 13:43, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

No. I'm asking what the third section of the exposition in your picture is? Under "Exposition" I can see "A:I    B:V    V". What is that third V? Contact Basemetal here 13:51, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

I may still not understand what you are asking. The third roman numeral is, to me, quite clearly a V. Hyacinth (talk) 14:05, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

But what does it correspond to in the sonata form? Contact Basemetal here 14:07, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

The article was not structured after the image, nor was the image structured after the article. I would guess the third B is the second subject group. Hyacinth (talk) 14:18, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

The third B???? I only see two Bs in the image. I'm asking about the third V not the third (?) B which I can't even see. The second line of text in the image is: "A:I    B:V    V    V and other keys    A:I    B:I". Are we agreed on that? Contact Basemetal here 14:24, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, insomnia (if I have any excuse). I mean the third roman numeral: the second V in the first B. This looks like the second subject group. Hyacinth (talk) 15:19, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Ok. Whew. Now we're getting somewhere (to quote Oliver Hardy:) Thanks. Then what is the first V in the first B? Contact Basemetal here 19:20, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

In that case I would guess that it would be the transition. Hyacinth (talk) 19:31, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Now I get it. Thanks Hyacinth. The reason I got confused was that I had wrongly assumed B:V to be the second theme and I didn't know what to make of the second V. Now you've cleared things up. Thanks. Contact Basemetal here 19:55, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

You're welcome. Hyacinth (talk) 23:17, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

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Merge discussion

Hi. Where is the merge discussion for this merge? In ictu oculi (talk) 01:37, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Is there a discussion about you contacting me to ask where a merger discussion is? If so, where is this discussion about you contacting me? Hyacinth (talk) 03:54, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Seriously though, I would cite Wikipedia:Merge#Reasons_for_merger #3: "text". Hyacinth (talk) 16:30, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

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Since I see that you're the last administrator to edit this template, please see this. Thanx. Thanatos|talk|contributions 07:32, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

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X icon/doc

Can't we simply use Template:Link language/Notes for x icon templates? — Lfdder (talk) 01:39, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

Cool, thanks for sorting these out. — Lfdder (talk) 02:23, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

You're welcome. Thanks for pointing it out. Hyacinth (talk) 02:29, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

Could you perform the move here? — Lfdder (talk) 23:26, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

ta — Lfdder (talk) 02:52, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

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Orphaned non-free image File:Schoenberg - Op. 25 Minuet Trio opening.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Schoenberg - Op. 25 Minuet Trio P-6 melody.png

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Schoenberg op. 7 example

Hello, an image you created featuring an excerpt of Schoenberg's op. 7 string quartet is labeled as an example of quartal harmony, but I don't see how this is the case. There don't appear to be any perfect fourths that occur either simultaneously or as consecutive notes.

In fact, the eight pitches that do occur in the excerpt (C, Db, Eb, E, Gb, G, A, Bb) can be put into four perfect fifths (CG, GbDb, AE, EbBb) in a way that illustrates that each note has exactly one other note that's a perfect fifth/fourth away. So I don't see how you could form a quartal chord with those notes at all.

There are also a few errors: there should be a key signature with a B flat at the beginning of the line, and the last note for the cello should be a G (and should probably be in tenor clef instead of alto), according to the edition I have.

If you are/were looking for examples of quartal harmonies with Schoenberg, you might try the first chamber symphony op. 9. It has some prominent examples. —98.206.162.116 (talk) 19:51, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

See: File:Schoenberg string quartet quartal chord.png and Pythagorean tuning. There is more than one kind of fourth, and any pitches may be seen as derived from fifths (C & B: C-G-D-A-E-B). Hyacinth (talk) 20:29, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Even so, isn't it kind of a stretch to call it a quartal chord, since the fourths you highlight are in fact given as fifths in the excerpt? The musicians and music theorists I know all seem to use "quartal" to describe chords made out of perfect fourths. And all of the other classical examples on the Wikipedia page on quartal harmony have heavy emphasis on perfect fourths. Perhaps more importantly, when you hear this passage, the prominent melodic intervals are the descending fifths and ascending minor ninths, and the harmonic intervals you hear are mostly minor thirds and tritones—I don't think the listener hears the distinctive quartal sonority that you get in op. 9 and Ives's The Cage and that is taught in ear-training and music theory classes in conservatory as the quartal sound. —98.206.162.116 (talk) 22:54, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Replaceable fair use File:Schoenberg - Op. 25 Minuet Trio tone row melodies.png

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Replaceable fair use File:Schoenberg - Op. 25 Minuet Trio opening.mid

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March 2014

Hello, I'm STATicVapor. I noticed that you made an edit concerning content related to a living person on Busta Rhymes, but that you didn’t support your changes with a citation to a reliable source, so I removed it. Wikipedia has a strict policy concerning how we write about living people, so please help us keep such articles accurate. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. STATic message me! 01:29, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

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Re: Template:User en-gb

Hello. You have a new message at PartTimeGnome's talk page. – PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 23:30, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

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Move from el-1 to ell-1

Why has this been moved? There are now dead links on the template. Pjposullivan (talk) 19:33, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, all good now, thank you. Pjposullivan (talk) 03:35, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

• There is still a problem. The {{#Babel}} extension is still using Category:User el and the like, even where the user has changed the language code to "ell" in the template call. This behavior appears to be hard-coded into the extension and can't be changed by users. So now some Greek speakers are in Category:User ell and others in Category:User el, with no obvious way to fix it. --R'n'B (call me Russ) 09:59, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Is there a list of the codes used by {{#Babel}}? Hyacinth (talk) 17:25, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

According to mw:Extension:Babel#Configuration, there are six configuration variables, of which any of the first four look like they could be relevant. I'm rapidly getting out of my technical depth here. :-) R'n'B (call me Russ) 19:02, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

March 2014

[[

Image:Ambox warning pn.svg|25px|alt=|link=]]

Thank you for contributing to Wikipedia. We always appreciate when users upload new images. However, it appears that one or more of the images you have recently uploaded or added to an article, specifically Tone row, may fail our non-free image policy. Most often, this involves editors uploading or using a copyrighted image of a living person. For other possible reasons, please read up on our Non-free image criteria. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Werieth (talk) 14:57, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

See: Talk:Tone row#Non-free images, and specifically User:Jerome Kohl's unanswered question. Hyacinth (talk) 01:17, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

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List of music students by teacher (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)

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key

• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD2iJuKU9fg

Hello, this song is in F major or G♭ major ? Fort123 (talk) 19:00, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Out of my own curiosity, why do you ask?

It sounds to me like it's "between the cracks", I'd say it's close to F. I assume it's due to it being from a video (possibly a video of a video). (If a sound recording gets slowed down or sped up to half or twice the speed everything becomes an octave lower or higher. If it only gets changed a tiny bit, it's often not immediately noticeable and will only be slightly out of tune.)

It sounds like it opens, at least, with I-ii-vi-V. If I play F-E-D-C it sounds about right.

Hyacinth (talk) 01:36, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

I asked you, because the key is strange. Fort123 (talk) 19:43, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

If you play the guitar (or other string instrument) you could tune an open string to the key of the song/chord, and then check that open string with an automatic tuner (many of which are available online for free, apparently). With the tuner one may be able to tell the note (or nearest note), and if it is out of tune/between the cracks. Hyacinth (talk) 00:16, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10sSiPKvzfI&list=UU8lMrjP0O9DU5Go-Lhivn1Q

Like this one ? Fort123 (talk) 13:07, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Looking at the tab, that looks like it would be in D major. Hyacinth (talk) 23:07, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

This man has tuned his guitar ? It's between F major and F♯ major. Fort123 (talk) 23:21, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia essay question

Hi there! I see you created Wikipedia:Mistakes_are_allowed. I kinda wanted to create something along the lines of "Correct me if I'm wrong" and then thought about creating a shortcut to your page. But I also see we have WP:SORRY and WP:MISTAKE. I thought maybe we should combine these essays into a larger one that basically says (1) mistakes are allowed, (2) it's okay to admit you're not sure, (3) common mistakes to avoid, and (4) admitting when you're wrong. I've only recently started playing around in the Wikipedia namespace created a shortcut for "unexplained content removal" for when I review article changes. How would I got about proposing this merger of essays, if at all? Cheers! EvergreenFir (talk) 06:13, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Any input? EvergreenFir (talk) 03:03, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Merging & Help:Merging.

These essays/guidelines seem mostly unrelated.

Content removal may include mistakes, but often regards addition and removal of intentionally inappropriate content.

Admitting when one is wrong is quite different from apologizing. Hyacinth (talk) 04:57, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

My apologies if I was unclear; the WP:UCR was not meant to be merged with the others. Was just a comment about my only contribution to the essays. I was thinking more about merging Wikipedia:Mistakes_are_allowed, WP:SORRY, and WP:MISTAKE as I see them being related. Yes, admitting fault is different than apologizing, but they are related. EvergreenFir (talk) 22:19, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

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List of music students by teacher (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)

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Wikipedia:Nationality

Hello. I would like to give you a heads up, and would like to invite your comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography#Nationality of people from disputed territory/country/colony/region as I am contemplating un'redirect'ing Wikipedia:Nationality (which you created) and replacing the page with a description of "what nationality could mean for the purpose of editing Wikipedia biography articles and categorizing people." which I briefly outlined in the discussion. Yiba (talk | contribs) 06:11, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Please feel free to create guideline/help content at WP:Nationality, I would appreciate such work. Hyacinth (talk) 07:28, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Austrian?

See also: Schuppanzigh Quartet

Cat for string quartet: there was not really what we know today as Austria in Beethoven's time, no? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:32, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

More precisely: Vienna was then the capital of the so-called Austro-Hungarian Monarchy, - to call that "Austrian" seems simplified, the question is: too much? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:41, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Balanescu Quartet - American?

Hey, I noticed you made this change setting Balanescu Quartet to the American string quartets category. What did you base that on? AFAIK, they are based in London. The leader is Romanian and writes a lot of Romanian folk music-inspired songs for the quartet. I'm not sure if it fits in any country-category. What do you think? Marmeladă (talk) 10:31, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Schoenberg - Op. 25 Minuet Trio tone row melodies.png

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key

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4Qj0oGxE3U

This song is in G♭ major ? Fort123 (talk) 21:21, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Please clarify Civility Policy?

Hi Hyacinth - Could you please help clarify WP:NICE in this AN/I discussion? - Thanks; LeoRomero (talk) 08:35, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Out of curiosity, is there are reason you asked me? In regards to clarifying the policy and/or discussion, is there anything specific that you are wondering about either? Hyacinth (talk) 01:58, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

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Redlinks

Please don't add redlinks to articles. If you plan on creating an article on a subject, make the article first, and then make the links. Thanks. BMK (talk) 05:46, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

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Orphaned non-free image File:Copland Sextet poly.mid

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Template:ShouldBeText

Hello Hyacinth. I'm a bit confused by your recent addition of a "reason" parameter to {{ShouldBeText}}. As with similar image format templates, such as {{Should be SVG}} and {{Should be PNG}}, I don't see why it would ever be necessary to provide a reason other than or in addition to those already explained in the template text. Could you give me an example of where use of this new parameter would be useful? —Psychonaut (talk) 07:09, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Hello. The explanation provided by the Template:ShouldBeText text is that a file, "consists purely of information which is better suited to representation in wikitext". Essentially, the template text says "ShouldBeText". If this is adequate and clear, why would it ever be necessary to provide a reason (in the template text) in addition to those already explained in the template title?

A 'reason' parameter provides a redundancy check, preventing inappropriate tagging of files. The 'reason' parameter also provides space for specifying which type of MediaWiki special syntax. Hyacinth (talk) 20:07, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

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Wayang colotomy

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Urdu

Just wondering, why did you move Template:User ur to Template:User urd? Clearly, 'ur' is the top-level code and most commonly used code for the language. The Urdu Wikipedia also uses 'ur' instead of 'urd' which is obsolete. Mar4d (talk) 09:01, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Check the edit history. Hyacinth (talk) 19:36, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

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Skogssamer

Hi, you seem to be a good editor. I would appreciate it if you could take a look at the Skogssamer article that I have created. For any improvements that you can find. Thanks.--BabbaQ (talk) 16:10, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

I did a quick copy edit.

I would advise that you post, in a hidden message (<!--hidden message-->) at the top of the article, the policies or rational for the italicization and capitalization used in the article. For example, "skogssamer" is not capitalized in the intro, except when it begins a sentence.

The sources could be more clear, being mostly non-English. {{Sv icon}} is used to indicate external links in Swedish. There is a "language" parameter in Template:Cite web, and similar templates, used to indicate the language of non-English sources.

Hyacinth (talk) 05:37, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

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List of string figures (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)

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Refs

High quality refs are needed. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 00:56, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Song structure (popular music)

Hello Mikhail, I see it was you who added the quotation which has caused bewilderment on the talk page. I find the assertion puzzling, too. Can you help clarifying it? --Florian Blaschke (talk) 20:39, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

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Twist knot

Hi,

I just reverted your change to Twist knot as the two images you added don't exist. However after looking at your edits (and wow you've uploaded a lot of pictures on commons) I assume maybe this is a name typo or forgot to upload?

Anyway just thought I'd point it out. Cheers KylieTastic (talk) 13:09, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Affricate

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Template/category issue

Hello, Hyacinth. I'm contacting you because I see that several months ago, you made this edit to Category:Wikipedia requested biology photographs. The problem is, that if a user actually follows that instructions and adds {{Image requested|date=13 July 2014|biology}} to the top of a talk page, that talk page will actually be categorized to Category:Wikipedia requested photographs of biology. This behavior seems to be built-in to Template:Image requested, while there are other templates used by various WikiProjects that use the former category. Do you have any thoughts on how to address this inconsistency? --R'n'B (call me Russ) 11:12, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

I added a parameter, 1o, to {{Image requested}} that permits the addition of "Category:Wikipedia requested XXX photographs" rather than the automatic "Category:Wikipedia requested photographs of XXX". However, I moved all uses of "Category:Wikipedia requested biology photographs" to "Category:Wikipedia requested photographs of biology". Hyacinth (talk) 13:04, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. --R'n'B (call me Russ) 13:55, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

July 2014

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Veena (instrument) --> Veena

I observed you changed Veena (instrument) --> Veena in many articles. Are you using a tool to do this? I want to a similar thing: Murugan -> Kartikeya.--Redtigerxyz <sup>Talk</sup> 04:40, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, I did it by hand. Hyacinth (talk) 05:09, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Ahenk

It isn't an upload of a photo, but this will supply an image of the photo to a person reading the article: I fixed the link at the bottom of the article, the link to pictures of the Ahenk. I did not upload one, as I can't think of a fair-use arguement.Jacqke (talk) 06:22, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

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Please restore those template redirects

"07:42 . . Hyacinth (talk | contribs) deleted page Template:Reqphotograph ‎(unnecessary, unused) 07:42 . . Hyacinth (talk | contribs) deleted page Template:Requested photograph ‎(unnecessary, unused)"

Can you restore them? They are useful for finding the right template through searching. If you feel they are not needed, please use a deletion discussion so we can hear what others think. Thanks, --<sub>Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here</sub> 06:30, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

The fact that you ignored my request is not very nice. I repeat it: please restore them and start a proper deletion discussion if you feel they are unnecessary. Otherwise your actions look like abuse of admin power: improper deletion (abuse of WP:SPEEDY) and refusal to even discuss it. But in good faith, I am sure you meant to reply and were too busy and forgot to, right? So, please, kindly, restore them. Thanks again. --<sub>Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here</sub> 07:28, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

I believe you may recreate them yourself. What about {{Req photograph}} and {{Photograph requested}}? Hyacinth (talk) 07:51, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Since I am not an admin, I cannot recreate them myself other than reposting them. I'd appreciate it if you could one-click (I hope) undue the deletion; it would also (I hope) save them from another erroneus speedy in the future. Cheers, --<sub>Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here</sub> 09:28, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. --<sub>Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here</sub> 02:48, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

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Heavy metal gallop

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MOS:ELLIPSIS

Per MOS:ELLIPSIS you moved a page to a non-recommended style and then you protected move action. I do not understand why you did that. Especially the protection. -- Magioladitis (talk) 12:05, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

What page? Hyacinth (talk) 16:04, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Ooops. I forgot to mention the page. This one: 1 − 2 + 3 − 4 + ⋯. In my opinion all similar pages should move to have three dot in their title. -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:23, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

I did not change the article's protection status. If you read my edit summary from when I moved the page to end in "⋯", I did it because an editor or editors moved all the similarly titled pages to end in "⋯".

See: Template:Requested move. I suggest that if you bring up moving 1 − 2 + 3 − 4 + ⋯ to 1 − 2 + 3 − 4 + ..., you post something on the talk page of all similarly title articles (such as 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + ⋯).

Hyacinth (talk) 10:03, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. -- Magioladitis (talk) 11:33, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Banana Sprite challenge

The article Banana Sprite challenge has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

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Proposed deletion of Food challenge

The article Food challenge has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Seems unlikely to ever be more than a WP:DICDEF; secondary-source coverage of food challenges are always about specific types of challenge, for which full articles exist.

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Merge discussion for Arditti Quartet

An article that you have been involved in editing, Arditti Quartet, has been proposed for a merge with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going here, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Karst (talk)10:15, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

Because you thanked me

Hyacinth, you thanked me for one of my recent edits, so here is a heart-felt...  YOU'RE WELCOME! It's a pleasure, and I sincerely hope that you enjoy your continued improvement of this inspiring encyclopedia! – Paine Ellsworth CLIMAX!

04:20, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

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On 'citation needed'

For cases like this one, you can use {{fv}}. Paradoctor (talk) 14:42, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

What makes Judaism a typical example?

When you wrote "MW is RS only for usage, not for definition" did you mean "MW is RS only for definition, not for usage"?

Hyacinth (talk) 15:45, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

"typical example" I didn't say that, didn't introduce the example. It's in the text as an example of circular defining. If you know a "more circular" example, please use it. Seeing as religion is generally not the calmest of topics at the best of times, something blander would be good anyway.

"MW is RS" Huh? I say "X is A, not B", and you ask me if I mean "X is B, not A"?!? I hope this clarifies it for you: If you want to support a definition with a reliable source, forget dictionaries. See [1] and Dictionary#Prescriptive vs. descriptive. What we want is a competent source discussing specifically definitions and issues surrounding them. There should be a ton of philosophical textbooks on the topic, and many logics texts. Paradoctor (talk) 16:20, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

You did say that "circular definition" should be removed as an example because it is not typical. Since you have not removed the "Judaism" example, it can only be assumed it is typical or exceptional.

For "MW is RS only for usage, not for definition" see your edit summary: [2].

Hyacinth (talk) 16:26, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

"Judaism" This example has the structure mentioned in the article text, the "circular definition" image did not.

"MW is RS" Since you obviously have read what I wrote, maybe you can explain what possessed you to ask me did you mean "MW is RS only for definition, not for usage", which is the exact opposite of what I said? Paradoctor (talk) 16:52, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

Where is the line between painfully obvious and obscure? Hyacinth (talk) 16:31, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

You're mixing up different and separate issues here, one of which has nothing to do with me. Paradoctor (talk) 16:52, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

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List of pitch intervals

Hyacinth, I recently enlarged the container of the image on List of pitch intervals to 700px, otherwise it appeared truncated. However. this change apparently also undid some of your recent changes, among others your addition of "tuning" to "Meantone temperament". This was by no means my intention and I cannot figure out how it happened. Anyway, I do not dare to restore this myself, lest I make new mistakes: would you mind having a look at that? – Hucbald.SaintAmand (talk) 08:11, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

The image was still displayed at 700px. See: Scrollbar.

WP:IMGSIZE: "Note that lead images should usually be no wider than upright=1.35 (which is the default equivalent of 300px)."

Surely if I did something it was my intention, not yours, and hopefully if you know that I did it, you know at least a little of how it happened. See: Template:Wide image

Hyacinth (talk) 02:32, 5 September 2014 (UTC),

Well, what I didn't understand, is why, while I worked at the image, your recent addition of "tuning" after "Meantone temperament" disappeared. I think that the whole somehow reverted to an earlier version of the article, but I don't know enough about WP's functioning to imagine how this happened. I am sure that you additions indeed were your intention, I merely meant that their removal was not my intention. The reason why I didn't correct this myself is that apparently at the same time you had made some changes in the figures of the table, and I was unable to check whether these as well had returned to the earlier version – the possibility was implied in my mention of the diseappearance of "tuning" among others in my message above, but this wasn't clear enough.

Reducing the image to no wider than 1.35 (inches? cm?) would make it unreadable, as you certainly realized. I think that, once centered as you positioned it, it should come between the introductory text and the table of contents, but'll further think of it before making the change. If you think the same, please do modify its position. – Hucbald.SaintAmand (talk) 06:40, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

I misunderstood, or half understood. Presumably you edited an older version of the article, thereby undoing later edits while saving yours.

Regarding the display of the image, see Scrollbar and Template:Wide image.

Hyacinth (talk) 07:37, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Deletion discussion about John Fonville

Hello, Hyacinth,

I wanted to let you know that there's a discussion about whether John Fonville should be deleted. Your comments are welcome at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John Fonville .

If you're new to the process, articles for deletion is a group discussion (not a vote!) that usually lasts seven days. If you need it, there is a guide on how to contribute. Last but not least, you are highly encouraged to continue improving the article; just be sure not to remove the tag about the deletion nomination from the top.

Thanks, Fevrret (talk) 01:01, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

September 2014

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Helmholtz/Ellis

Hyacinth, I saw that you reverted my change to the footnote in List of pitch intervals refering to p. 644 of Ellis' translation of Helmholtz. You added that this refered to the "Additions by the translator". However, both in the original 2d, 3d and 4th editions (there is no later one), as in the Dover reprint, the Additions by the translator are pp. 430-556. The Additions do include a "Table of intervals not exceeding the octave", pp. 453-456, but this table, so far as I can see, does not include many of the terms attributed to it in this footnote, or its expressions are inaccurately reproduced: "low semitone" (Ellis: "Pythagorean limma"); "diatonic second semitone" (Ellis: "diatonic or just semitone"); "high semitone" (Ellis: "Great limma"); "minor tone" (Ellis: "minor tone of just intonation, 'grave second' of the major scale"); "minor third" (Ellis: "just minor third"); "major third" (Ellis: "just major third"); "Super major third" (Ellis: "supermajor third"); "Fifth"(Ellis: "Just and Pythagorean fifth").

You may consider that I should correct this in the article, instead of complaining... But there are so many things that need correcting and, as I said before, I don't quite understand the purpose of this article. I am willing to try, but...

Hucbald.SaintAmand (talk) 19:39, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Follow the external link. Hyacinth (talk) 19:52, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

My apologies. I did not know this (first) edition, which is different from the subsequent ones, all reproducing the second edition, as does the Dover reprint (they are all available on https://archive.org/search.php?query=Helmholtz%20Sensations). It is a bit odd to quote an edition which Ellis himself had considered in need of revision; the subsequent ones include a long list of "intervals", as said above, in which he does not reproduce some of the terms he had utilised in the first edition. – Hucbald.SaintAmand (talk) 11:56, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. Hyacinth (talk) 22:23, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

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globalchant.org

After a bit of poking in histories, I discovered that Kolaj added a link to globalchant.org to quite a few singing/renaissance/etc. related articles. George8211 / T 20:01, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

? Hyacinth (talk) 05:34, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Sorry for the confusion. I just wondered if you considered the edits by Kolaj to be spamming. George8211 / T 17:06, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

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FYI

FYI: [3]. CC. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.79.80.126 (talk • contribs) 08:27, 25 September 2014

Please do not remove signatures. It only makes it less convenient for others to see who is commenting. If you're trying to keep your IP address confidential, that doesn't work since anybody who checks the page history can see your IP next to your edits. — Gwalla | Talk 18:28, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Missing fundamental and wavelength

The missing fundamental is a psychoacoustic concept. The ear and brain have no access to wavelength-like input, just time and frequency. And in real dispersive media, wavelength and frequency are not exactly inversely related. It's best not to mix wavelength into this concept. Dicklyon (talk) 03:21, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Category:Pretzel knots and links

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Illustration of Sorites paradox

In the article Sorites paradox, I consider the basic idea of your picture File:Sorites paradox heap.png useful, but I agree with McGeddon that "1=1+1=..." shouldn't appear there. I see two issues:

1. use of "=" suggests that all heaps are claimed to be the same, while the paradox is only about all have a common property, viz. being a heap;
2. the psychological temptation to claim "one pebble more or less can't affect the heap property" works better for sufficiently large heaps than for small nonheaps (collections of 2 and 9 pebbles "look quite different", while such of 100002 and 100009 don't).

Maybe it is possible to design a picture starting with the large heap, then somehow indicating the removal of the first 1, 2, 3 pebbles. To avoid "=", e.g. a heap/nonheap border could be indicated somehow. However, I don't know how to illustrate that it's a problem which collections are immediately left and right to the border - maybe you have an idea. - Jochen Burghardt (talk) 09:33, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

See: Talk:Sorites paradox#Image. Hyacinth (talk) 23:31, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Hilbert's problems

Recently I removed the template "Disproved conjectures" from the page Hilbert's tenth problem with the justification that "Hilbert presented his problems as research objectives, not conjectures". You then reverted this edit with the rational that "Hilbert's problems is in Category:Conjectures". This is not enough rational since the decision of including "Hilbert's problems" in this category is not sourced, or even explained. I looked at the article and it isn't mentioned anywhere that they are conjectures. Nxavar (talk) 06:11, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Metal ratios

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Nomination of Metallic mean for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Metallic mean is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

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October 2014

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Schlegel diagram

Schlegel wireframe 8-cell.png

Hypercube.svg [existing]

Please explain what you dislike about the existing hypercube Schegel diagram that has caused you to repeatedly add unnecessary cleanup tags to it and/or try to replace it with what I believe is a worse image. It is a very standard example of a Schlegel diagram so if you really need to it should be easier to find similar looking images, but of course we can't source that exact view (because if we did it would be a copyright violation). The image you replaced it with is, I believe, clearly worse in multiple respects. As a bitmap image it does not scale as well as an svg image. I think the strange projection (in which far-away features are mysteriously larger than nearer ones) is both ugly and mathematically wrong. And, it is much less accurate as an example of a Schlegel diagram, because the Schlegel diagram is supposed to be a projection of all of the features of the polytope (vertices, edges, and higher dimensional faces) while your preferred image throws the higher dimensional stuff away leaving a different object, the skeleton of the polytope. The two images have different sizes of the inner cube with respect to the outer one, but that is not a problem: this size parameter can be adjusted in the construction of a Schlegel diagram by adjusting the location of the four-dimensional center of projection relative to the hypercube and the hyperplane of projection. Rather than just keeping on reverting, please explain yourself. —David Eppstein (talk) 00:48, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

According to Commons:Category:Tesseract Schlegel diagrams there are a few less than 24 images to choose from (discounting pngs/duplicates).

If we object to using File:Schlegel wireframe 8-cell.png on Schlegel diagram, we should probably stop using it on Tesseract. —Hyacinth 02:12, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for October 29

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Unrefrerenced

Please do not use {{unreferenced}} on articles that do in fact have references, but do not have footnotes. Per Wikipedia:Scientific citation guidelines#Articles without in-line references, this is not necessarily even a problem for short enough articles. Moreover, for longer articles without adequate inline references (whether they are footnotes or Wikipedia:Parenthetical referencing, which is also an acceptable style) the tags you want are {{no footnotes}}, {{more footnotes}}, or preferably {{citation needed}} to tag the specific facts that you have been unable to locate sources for. Also, in the case of Padovan cuboid spiral, your tagging was particularly silly, because the three references already present are all available online so you can see for yourself what they're cited for and add the footnotes yourself rather than demanding that someone else do it for you. —David Eppstein (talk) 05:03, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Theoretically, you could have edited "Unreferenced" to "No footnotes", rather reverting twice and then asking me to do it. Hyacinth (talk) 05:17, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

I would have done that if I thought the lack of footnotes was problematic. But I didn't when I added the references and I still don't. —David Eppstein (talk) 05:37, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

List of music students by teacher

Further information: Talk:List of music students by teacher § List of music students by teacher

Simplified Chinese and Template:Zh icon

hi, my goal here is letting Template:Zh icon can make fellow editor Noted this particular language may usually have Simplified style: Simplified Chinese.

and i dont think i can do that by Editing Template:Link language/Notes.

i cant figure out how to do that, so, could u pls help me out here, ty. Ntudreamer (talk) 17:11, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Links to disambiguation pages

Could you take a look to your series of "Template:List of music students by teacher/...". This page list 14 of them... The Banner talk 23:22, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

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Homunculus C.F.

added a link pointing to Pantonal

Pandiatonic

added a link pointing to Chord

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Reference Errors on 1 December

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Disambiguation link in Walkdown

Greetings! When you created the article, Walkdown, you included a confusing link to the disambiguation link, third (music). Can you fix that link so that it points to the correct article? Cheers! bd2412 T 01:19, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

That will do - although I am now curious about the right meaning for the term. Are we missing the meaning as used there? bd2412 T 04:17, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Essentially "third (musical interval)" or "third ([most likely] major or minor)". Hyacinth (talk) 08:02, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Mistakes in midi files at Quarter_tone

Hello! I'm very new at editing Wikipedia, I hope I'm doing it right..? I just noticed some mistakes in the midi files you made for quarter tones. I added this on the article's talk page, I'm not sure if you got notified:

Some of the midi files on the 24-EDO table are wrong. What should be 750 cents is 800 cents and what should be 950 cents is 1000 cents. Also I think the midi file for 450 cents should have the notes played together in the beginning, just like in the other files. BlueMeeple 12:09, 15 December 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by BlueMeeple (talk • contribs)

I believe I have corrected them. How do they sound now? Hyacinth (talk) 15:26, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for the quick edit and the welcome speech! "750 cents" and "950 cents" start correct now, but the notes are 100 cents too low when seperated (650 cents and 850 cents respectively). "450 cents" is great, but now when I checked them all I noticed that "900 cents" is missing the notes played seperately. BlueMeeple (talk) 17:31, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

How about now?

Hyacinth (talk) 04:43, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Yes, now they're all correct! I checked only the midis that were wrong the last time, but if you didn't change anything else... I also like that you changed the name of 900 cents to "Major sixth". BlueMeeple (talk) 08:22, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing out the errors and inconsistencies! Hyacinth (talk) 08:32, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject assessment tags for talk pages

hank you for your recent articles, including Johann Friedrich Kittl, which I read with interest. When you create a new article, can you add the WikiProject assessment templates to the talk of that article? See the talk page of the article I mentioned for an example of what I mean. Usually it is very simple, you just add something like {{WikiProject Keyword}} to the article's talk, with keyword replaced by the associated WikiProject (ex. if it's a biography article, you would use WikiProject Biography; if it's a United States article, you would use WikiProject United States, and so on). You do not have to rate the article if you do not want to, others will do it eventually. Those templates are very useful, as they bring the articles to a WikiProject attention, and allow them to start tracking the articles through Wikipedia:Article alerts and other tools. For example, WikiProject Poland relies on such templates to generate listings such as Article Alerts, Popular Pages, Quality and Importance Matrix and the Cleanup Listing. Thanks to them, WikiProject members are more easily able to defend your work from deletion, or simply help try to improve it further. Feel free to ask me any questions if you'd like more information about using those talk page templates. <sub>Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here</sub> 13:29, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

MOS:AMP

Hello. Please see this. --Omnipaedista (talk) 15:15, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Maybe you didn't read the manual of style or it changed since you pointed me to it. Hyacinth (talk) 03:58, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Reference Errors on 19 December

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Category:Women composers

Category:Women composers, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. ekips39 21:29, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

Template:Classical mechanics

• https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AClassical_mechanics&diff=640244663&oldid=639206897

Hello – is the link in the above – {{Dynamics (music)}} – the one you meant to add..?

Regards, Sardanaphalus (talk) 20:41, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

• https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AClassical_mechanics&diff=641616606&oldid=640244663

Thanks for this clarification. Yours, Sardanaphalus (talk) 09:29, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Strange musical term

Hello! I found you here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Musicology&action=history and ask your help. Please explain: what means this term: the 'Opera'-tinged vocal dynamo ? Thank you! - 95.29.159.87 (talk) 11:59, 10 January 2015 (UTC).

Where did you find this musical term? Hyacinth (talk) 02:22, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for January 13

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Reference Errors on 15 January

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Category:Citation formats

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Mother chord

Hello, Hyacinth, there is a redirect from "Mother chord" to "All-interval twelve-tone row". In the lead section of "All-interval twelve-tone row", "Mother chord" is not mentioned at all. In the section "Grandmother chord", it is mentioned but not explained. As I neither know what a "mother chord" is nor find it in my dictionaries I cannot fix it. Thanks and regards, --BoyBoy (talk) 15:50, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

How does the article look now? Hyacinth (talk) 14:50, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Great! Thank you! --BoyBoy (talk) 12:51, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for February 19

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Nomination for deletion of Template:Ibid later

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Nomination for deletion of Template:Chicago style

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Category:Scales with unusual key signatures

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On the article Musical composition

an older verison of the article edited by user "saraleec" added some info in the article about a chord progression and the feeling it produced was hopeful, beforehand she/he talked about selecting chord for a specific purpose.. and then the progression.. textual " For example, selecting a minor key, but with mostly major chords (i.e. III, VI, VII) might convey a hopeful feeling." where did he/she found that info? no refernce? no nothing? also the user link is in red wikipedia catn fin the user.. can you help, i would like to find more info about feeling and chord progressions..

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Musical_composition&oldid=490632844 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.208.2.31 (talk) 04:31, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Problem in key signature?

Hello Hyacinth, checking some DEFAULTSORT problems I noticed your change [4] in key signature. The added template Template:Musical key is currently a redirect to an article, so "key signature" has 2 articles pasted together now - with sections out of order and a duplicate reference list. I am not sure about the reason for this change, but wanted to let you know in case it was a mistake. Thank you. GermanJoe (talk) 16:53, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Nomination of Malcolm Goodman for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Malcolm Goodman is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

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FAC input

Hi! Since you're a regular contributor to music articles, would you be interested in commenting or reviewing my FAC for the article xx (album)? It's received one editor's comments but not much follow-up yet, so anything would be appreciated. Dan56 (talk) 03:38, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Category:Color images

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Thanks for all the work you have done on music

I think it's great all the work you've done on music articles. I am also very impressed with your 100,000 edit award! That is true dedication to Wikipedia! I love editing and improving articles in music, film, and unusual topics. I think the addition of the "Thanks" button is a great improvement, because it allows editors to have positive interactions--rather than just reversion messages. I look forward to more collaboration with you on the conducting article.OnBeyondZebrax • TALK 16:30, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Musica instrumentalis listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Musica instrumentalis. Since you had some involvement with the Musica instrumentalis redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. - TheChampionMan1234 04:08, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Party games

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Shamanism in Siberia

Hello, Hyacinth -- I have searched for an editor who is interested in ethnomusicology. I read the article Shamanism in Siberia and made a few copy-edits to try and improve the prose in the article. I think some or all of the article was written by a non-native speaker of English. I could go no further in my edits because I am unfamiliar with the topic. I'm wondering if you could work on the article, or perhaps just the section on Shamanism in Siberia#Songs, music. The section on yoiks needs particular attention. CorinneSD (talk) 21:54, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Replaceable fair use File:Come in from the Rain lead sheet.png

Thanks for uploading File:Come in from the Rain lead sheet.png. I noticed that this file is being used under a claim of fair use. However, I think that the way it is being used fails the first non-free content criterion. This criterion states that files used under claims of fair use may have no free equivalent; in other words, if the file could be adequately covered by a freely-licensed file or by text alone, then it may not be used on Wikipedia. If you believe this file is not replaceable, please:

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Orphaned non-free image File:Come in from the Rain lead sheet.mid

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Tertian, tertial

[5]

I've removed the hatnote but it might be better to make a disambiguation page instead.96.52.0.249 (talk) 02:23, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. I added a shorter version using {{For}}. Hyacinth (talk) 02:40, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

dominant inversions

I have a question for you here96.52.0.249 (talk) 13:52, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Some hoaxes to move

I have some G3 blatant hoaxes that I want the text restored so I can put it on Randomness Wiki (where they SHOULD belong). I recently discovered that, and most of what I'm asking for is really random. I've asked some other admins about this one, but they said they can't do the deleting, so this is my last stop.

Can you bring me back the source for articles like Project Shrine Maiden (deleted by Xezbeth in 2012/2013), Pichi no Shiro de Rokkuman to Pati (deleted in 2014 by Fram), Sonic CD: The Movie (deleted in August 2011), Japanese Ritual Day (deleted by Fram in 2014), Cheerleaders (the one Black Kite deleted in 2014, when it got moved to her userspace), and Video games with something about chicken soup. (It's a G1, which is PERFECT for RW Wiki.)

Another good place to move these articles is Speedy Deletion Wiki.

Now, I'm sorry I ask a lot, but this is the last time I ask, so please help out with this. Thanks in advance 67.82.89.253 (talk) 00:07, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:No Schenker

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Nomination for deletion of Template:All Schenker

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Disambiguation link notification for July 18

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