User talk:Larry Rosenfeld/Archive 2

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Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3

Thanks for the encouraging words

Thanks Larry for leaving the kind words on my talk page. I will do my best to help balance out Buddhist articles as I see them. I've been spending months expanding and correcting the Pure Land related pages on WP, which had a lot of gaps and inconsistencies. Others seem to have taken up the mantle since and so things are expanding like they should for WP.  ;) I also have been expanding other pages on Japanese Buddhism in general (references to Shingon Buddhism and Vairocana for example) as I have knowledge of those too.  ;) Ph0kin 12:31, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Need some help proofreading

Hello, I am not sure who to ask, but I made some small, but significant edits to teh D.T. Suzuki page on WP. I added some information about D.T. Suzuki's experiences with Shin (Pure Land Buddhism), including mention of his mother's Shin faith, and its influce on Suzuki. Given Suzuki's popularity, I don't want to start a flame war on WP, so I tried to keep the additions subtle, small and tried not to embellish. If you or another Buddhist editor could take a look and offer suggestions, I'd be grateful.

Thanks!

P.S. Feel free to direct me to another group or page for this kind of thing. Ph0kin 07:40, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi Larry

I need to talk to you about putting some WikiProject Buddhism tags on various articles relating to Buddhism in India. Specifically, Persecution of Buddhists, Dalit Buddhist movement, and Decline of Buddhism in India. The way these articles stand has gone on long enough. There's also Buddhism in India. I might just put these tags on myself, but I'm going to need help putting them in their proper place on the notice board. I'm also going to need help with the articles themselves. Yes, I am back.:) NinaOdell | Talk 12:54, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Buddhist meditation

hello larry, you are right, we can take away the samatha since it could be vipassana also. It could be made into "well-known types of meditation[s]". The article needs a lot more work. I just tried to make the article a bit more open, not just following Kamalashila's framework. Anapana could also be used as both (contemplating the impermanence of the breath - which is one of the last steps (number 13 I think) of the Anapanasutta).

Greetings, Sacca 13:28, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Mistake :P

That was a mistake, sorry about that! No I'm not against the protection, I was the one who requested it on WP:RFPP :P. Again, my apologies.¤~Persian Poet Gal (talk) 23:12, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Prostration (Buddhism) image

Hi Larry! Thank you so much for your kind words on my User Page about the images I have uploaded recently. I have no objection at all to where you moved the image I added - and I think it is more appropriate where you placed it. Thank you so much for your friendly, clear and detailed reasons for the move - they are much appreciated. Now, I think I will have a look at some of your own work - which promises at first glance to be both interesting and instructive. Cheers and all best wishes. John Hill 10:26, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Kammatthana => Anussati

Sorry I don't know anything about it. I was just trying to fix up some articles on the orphan article list. I tried to find some good information the topic but nothing I found was really made any sense, I look forward to seeing what you do. Mystic eye 01:32, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi

Thanks for the compliment but I might not be so deserving of it. I created the article using content from this version. The main meditation article was 50 kb long so I skimmed it by moving content, creating another article and linking the new article to the old one. That's about all I did. Thanks for the kind note though. Phillip Rosenthal 20:02, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Hindu Fire Barnstar
Namaste! I, Buddhipriya, congratulate you for your great work to create the DisplayTranslations template, which will be of value on many pages. You are fun to work with, besides. -- Buddhipriya

Buddhipriya 19:32, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your mutual acknowledgment of the importance of interfaith cooperation on these important issues. I know little of Buddhism except a few things here and there, and look forward to learning by working with you. Buddhipriya 19:50, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Dear Larry, thanks for the mention / acknowledgement in your edit summary on the Householders page.--Stephen Hodge 02:18, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Dear Larry, thanks for the star-shaped accolade. Not that I, with proper Buddhist detachment, worry about such things, but it's nice to have :) And I'll be delighted to give you any help /advice you may want in future if I can ! --Stephen Hodge 03:02, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Larry, no offense taken at all

Thanks Larry for pointing out the change on the Buddhism sidebar. I think you're right in that it is kind of redundant. By all means, please change anything like that. That's the beauty of Wikipedia.  ;) --Ph0kin 23:53, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Punna

Yes I believe you're right about Punna, I don't remember where I saw the other meaning, but it's likely that I was mistaken. All the best, -- itistoday (Talk) 01:19, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Edits on Buddhism page

Namaste! The recent changes on the Buddhism pages are things that I would have reverted, but I already reverted this user once today and I personally follow a one-revert rule to prevent edit wars. The changes made to the definition of samadhi are nonsense, in my opinion, and I urge you to consider reverting to the last known good version and asking him to defend his views on the talk page. It can be difficult to deal with disruptive users, as they do not respect reversion processes and are prone to begin edit wars unless several editors agree that it must be taken to the talk page. It would be enjoyable to collaborate with you again in looking at the definition of the term, and otehr issues on that article. Buddhipriya 00:52, 31 March 2007 (UTC)


Eastern/Middle Eastern influences on Clincial Psychology

Larry I would value your input on this page Clinical Psychology - Eastern & Middle Eastern Influences--Ziji 22:00, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

"Rv a rather sweeping statement"

All understood and not a problem... ;-) Cheers, Ian Rose 13:42, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Now that I'm firmly back from my recent wikivacation, I wanted to take a moment to thank you for giving me a barnstar. I suppose it would be unseemly for me to wax too verbose in expressing my gratitude, but I should say that I've never had a barnstar before and I certainly appreciate that you were thoughtful enough to consider me. I'm not sure how prolific I'm going to find time to be on Wikipedia in the near future, but I do look forward to working with you.—Nat Krause(Talk!·What have I done?) 00:23, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Buddhism2 template

Sir,
The template looks amazing and is very informative. I looked up the history of the template and thought I'd drop in and extend my best regards to you for your excellent contributions to this encyclopedia.
Freedom skies| talk  01:46, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Sir, I'm thankful/appreciative both for the contributions that you have made to this encyclopedia and for your kind note. Many reagards, Freedom skies| talk  00:36, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Nichiren on template

Hi Larry, I agree, in my view, Nichiren in no way belongs among the major distinctions of Theravada, Mahayana and Vajrayana: it's 'just' one of the Mahayana schools. rudy 11:50, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Thanks, Larry, for your very friendly message to my User Page (I have in fact sent you an e-mail in response). I just want to say here that I totally agree with you (and Sacca and Rudy) that "Nichiren" is not normally - to the best of my knowledge - regarded as an entire branch of Buddhism, but is seen as a part of Mahayana. So - "Nichiren" should be removed from the list, in my view. Best wishes to you. From Tony. TonyMPNS 17:36, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Thanks again, Larry, for your most kind words. It is always a pleasure to discuss Dharma/Dhamma with you. Warm regards from Tony. TonyMPNS 20:25, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Great thanks to you again, Larry (this is becoming a habit!) for your immensely kind response to my idea of including "Buddha Nature" in the general Buddhism template. Unlike some "Buddhists" whom I have encountered on Wiki (no names mentioned!), you have always shown yourself to be an eminently friendly, reasonable, civil and sincere Buddhist editor, only wanting the best for "Wiki Buddhism". I respect your work and your attitude a lot. Although I did not really participate in much of the discussions between yourself and the hugely knowledgeable Peter Jackson, I always noted your benignity and your lack of arrogance. So please accept my genuine gratitude and thanks for the superb example which you set in this forum. Sincere best wishes to you in Dhamma/Dharma. Yours - Tony. TonyMPNS 22:32, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
  • One more burst of praise and thanks from myself to yourself, Larry! I really appreciate your most kind words - and the knowledge, devotion and dedication you show to Dharma and Wiki-Buddhism in particular. It is not I but YOU who needs to be replicated 1,000 times to make this world a better place. All warm wishes to you (no need to reply to this one!). Yours cordially - Tony. TonyMPNS 13:23, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


Buddha Nature?

  • Hallo great and dear Larry,

Many thanks indeed for your excellent suggestions. Yes! I agree with all of them - if you have the time?? But please do not inconvenience yourself. I think that most people will vote NOT to include "Buddha Nature" in the template - and I would accept that (I am a democrat!). But if ever you (with your superlative skills) make a Mahayana template, we could have "Buddha Nature" right up there as one of the first items, right? What do you think, Larry? Please don't feel under any moral pressure, though, to create a Mahayana template. What you have already done is so outstandingly impressive and beautiful - I don't want to add to your workload and stress levels! Thanks again for all you do. I am enormously impressed by your love of Buddhism, your artistic template-making, and your very, very Buddhistic (i.e. metta-filled) approach to your friends and fellow editors on Wiki. It is so refreshing to have contact with you. But please, please - do not give yourself any trouble on my account. I would feel bad if you did that! Warm wishes to a real bodhisatta (I am not that yet, alas!) - from Tony. TonyMPNS 16:45, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


Mahayana Template

  • Many thanks, as always - for the excellent Mahayana template which you have created (I've sent you an e-mail about it). It looks splendid. I hope that other editors will agree to utilise this most attractive piece of Wiki-Buddhist apparatus. Really good work indeed. Thank you very much, Larry. Kind regards. From Tony. TonyMPNS 09:39, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
  • What can I say?! You are so tremendously kind and generous, Larry. Thank you for your constant kindliness and eagerness to improve Wiki Buddhism to the maximum extent.

If I might request two or three things re. the Mahayana template (actually, I feel selfish and ungrateful in doing this!)?

1) Could we change the overall green colour to a radiant yellow or gold (yellow and gold are highly important colours in the Mahayana - indeed, a very influential sutra is called "The Sutra of GOLDEN Light"); maybe we could then use blues and greens for the rest of the design (the words)?

2) In the list of sutras, could we place the Nirvana Sutra immediately beneath (after) the Lotus Sutra (the two thematically belong together)?

3) In the list of Doctrines, could we add "Sunyata", and have the following order: "Bodhisattva, Bodhicitta, Karuna, Prajna, Sunyata, Buddha Nature, Trikaya, Eternal Buddha" ?

Again, I want to ask you NOT to give yourself any headaches over this, Larry. Please do whatever you can, in whatever time is available to you - and if you are too busy, please just leave it for another time. There is no rush. Thank you so much. The template is going from strength to strength! I hope we can get the other editors to accept it without too much alteration or deletion.

Kind regards to you. From Tony. TonyMPNS 11:53, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Oh, that's really good, Larry! I like the new look very much indeed. Everything seems fine to me now. I think that one of the biggest difficulties for us re. listing key Mahayana sutras, though, is that there are quite a number of important ones and we cannot include them all! I can imagine a lot of Mahayana Buddhists complaining to me (quite legitimately) that we have not included the "Diamond Sutra" and the "Heart Sutra". But I think we can get round that problem by a cunning little ruse: simply by adding "s" to "Prajnaparamita sutra" (thus: "Prajnaparamita sutras"), we cover all relevant bases. As you probably know, Larry, there are quite a number of prajnaparamita sutras, so simply by pluralising the reference to them, we are de facto including the whole array of them!

As I said above, I myself like the look of the entire template now. Do you feel happy with it yourself? It would be good if we could post it on "Mahayana: Talk" and see what kind of response it elicits. But only if you feel ready to do this. It's nice to know that you enjoy doing this work. Certainly your creations bestow positive, dharmic "vibes" upon Wiki-Buddhism and we all (I am sure) feel uplifted by that. So once more - a big thank you for all your patient and hard work. Some of us here really appreciate your great input. Cordial greetings. From Tony. TonyMPNS 16:55, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Hallo again, Larry. I've just seen your second and latest yellow template design (with the accent on yellow) - and I like that version best of all. It is excellent. I think we could try both out on the other Wiki editors, though. What do you think? Perhaps we should have a little vote on who amongst the editors prefers which one? As I said, I would vote for the latest "yellow" one. It is so heart-warmingly luminous! Thanks again, Larry. Hope you are not too exhausted! Gratefully yours - Tony. TonyMPNS 17:17, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Vesak greetings, to you too

Thanks for your greetings, nice to hear. This year Vesak has two dates I saw, anyway, all the best, Greetings, Sacca 06:33, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Asokan theme

hello Larry, yes I am not one who gives up easily, especially the hinayana-branding which is an obvious attempt to incorporate Theravada as a lesser version of Mahayana... ;-) I see quite a lot of this in Wikipedia, also I regard Nikaya Buddhism as a similar attempt. In reality there was no such kind of Buddhism, the early schools were not united and on some issues got along quite badly as can be seen in the Kathavatthu. If those things cannot be removed at least it seems it has to be evened out by adding some truthful historical accounts of Mahayana and Vajrayana, too. Well, never mind, as long as things can be evenly distributed it is ok.

The following is a picture which is one of my favorites on wikipedia:

. It symbolizes the last trip that Buddha made, from Vaishali to Kusinara where he attained Total Nirvana. The pillar is standing in Vaishali, aimed at Kusinara. Also the image of the lion represents Buddha himself, as in the Buddha's Lion Roar which can be found in the Mahaparinirvana Sutra. The lions' roar is actually his last teaching before making the famous statement "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!". The image might have to be cropped a bit, though.

I guess Theravada template might be useful in some places, although I cannot immediately envision where that would be. But I'm quite sure there'll be some places.Greetings, Sacca 05:49, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

P.S. I had to think about one teaching of the Buddha. One Brahmin of the Bharadvaja clan came to Buddha and blasted him and insulted him. Then, Buddha asked him that when you give a gift to somebody else, and the other doesn't accept it, who's is the gift? Is it yours or does it belong to the one who refused it? The Brahmin said that it would still be considered as property of the giver. Then Buddha said that similarly, his bad speech and insults were not accepted or received by Buddha: "They are still yours, Brahmin, they are still yours!" This is an uplifting story, and reflects your opinion, and also mine and Gethin's. The hinayana label is best used in Mahayana sections. Greetings, Sacca 06:13, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

well done on the attkakathas...Greetings, Sacca 03:46, 10 May 2007 (UTC)


Excellent Mahayana Template

Hallo dear Larry, Just a quick note to thank you for the superlative Mahayana template, which you have so kindly distributed across various relevant Mahayana entries on Wiki. It looks great! Thanks again! All warmest wishes to you. From Tony. TonyMPNS 22:29, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

theravada template

It turns out that there are quite a few places which can use the template. I am adding them now... Greetings, Sacca 04:57, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

What about a template on Pali Canon?Greetings, Sacca 04:58, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the 3 baskets, each devided into its main component parts, so for Suttapitaka: the five Nikayas. A bit of history like you say, and also a link to commentaries, but that one not detailed, just one link, else it would get too complicated with stuff which is outside of the Pali Canon. Nice also, to put a link to various orators.Greetings, Sacca 05:26, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

a bookcase is a interesting idea (a book case with 3 parts -left Viyana, middle sutta and right abhidhamma). But I have a preference for right-hand-side templates.Greetings, Sacca 05:57, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
A wonderful job on the Pali Canon template! My screen is exra-wide, so it deosn't matter so much how wide it is. But for general usage the left one is better. what if it would be a bit wider, and include the Sutta Pitaka on one line? Aprrectiation for your skills in template-building. Greetings, Sacca 06:27, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
In Thai tradition, the book are often of a dark blue color, with golden letters, you could try out how that looks.Greetings, Sacca 07:59, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Hi, I added some changes to the Theravada and Mahayana's template mainly because some of these places (i.e. Korea (NOT North Korea or South Korea though), Tibet) listed in the Mahayana template aren't exactly State Parties, I'm sure you understand why. And Taiwan (Republic of China)'s international status is also problematic. These changes are nothing political; if some users wishes to see these places as countries (or regions), the title is now "Countries & Regions", therefore it covers more ground and less POV in my opinion. The same applies to the Theravada template, if some users wants to add more places' names in the future.--Balthazarduju 00:17, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Visuddhimagga

Hi Larrie ! As far as I know the VM is not classed as a commentary. It is certainly not an atthakatha, which is probably why it gets deleted. Nevertheless, the VM presupposes the atthakatha and vice versa in some of the discussions.--Stephen Hodge 23:09, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Re:Kalyanna mitta

You are welcome.--Dakota 04:21, 23 May 2007 (UTC)


Happy Vesak

File:SiddhartaBirth.JPG
A Happy Vesak (according to the Vietnamese calendar) to you Larry. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 02:17, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for all your work on Buddhism articles, especially the Pali and Theravada aspects. May I ask you in Theravada, who are regarded as the foremost, because in the Gautama Buddha article, I added a list of the first five and then the next five, but this comes from two Mahayana Vietnamese language texts, one of which was an encyclopedia translated from Chinese commissioned by the Most Venerable Thich Quang Do. I think that Sariputta, Mahamoggallana, Mahakassapa, Ananda and Anuruddha are the five foremost in both, but if the Theravada is different, then it should be noted there. Thanks, Blnguyen (bananabucket) 02:17, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

pali canon template

it is very suitable now, well done, larry!Greetings, Sacca 03:13, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

about pali canon template

hello larry, I have been away for a while...

I am responding to your request on the pali canon, personally I think there's a bit too much free spaces there, the Pali Canon bookcases are always very well sized, no empty space can been seen if the books are all there. Also I would not have used the number of pages as a measure for the size given to the books. Then it would be easier to fill the rows evenly, and the bookcase could be made smaller than it now is. Anyway, still the template is a good template, it just misses the feeling a bit. appreciation for your work, Greetings, Sacca 04:46, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi Larry, thanks for your kind reply, It's a bit difficult for me to check this now, I am not close to a tipitaka bookcase any more... I think Vinaya one shelf, Sutta one Shelf and Abhidhamma one or two shelves (because the names are so long, or else use shorter versions of the name). Ideally, one shelf for one pitaka, if possible. thanks, Greetings, Sacca 03:42, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Also, I have some pictures of beautiful drawings of Buddhaghosa and Sanghamitta. I will upload them in a few days.Greetings, Sacca 04:02, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

pictures of sri lankan religious history

Here's the pictures I recently took of paintings in a sri lankan temple... You're free to nclude them in any page, off course, as you see fit. One funny thing is that you can see the legs and buttocks of Buddhaghosa through his robes ;-)

Greetings, Sacca 15:06, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

thanks Larry, for finding a nice place for these pics. Reading the section on the 2 pilgrims was good, I know a bit more about the details of the story now. Greetings, Sacca 08:28, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Four Right Exertions

Hi, i am writing on the German-Article de:Bodhipakkhiyadhamma. Thank you for your comment on the discussion page on the german article. I have read your comment about Four Right Exertions and Four Exertions. I cant see a significant difference between those two terms - they are very strong linked to each other. E.g. the sake of the non-arising [anuppādāya] of evil, unskillful qualities that have not yet arisen is in my understanding a differnent explanation to Restraint (saṃvara padhāna) of the senses. The (german) sources I use make no specific difference between Four Right Exertions and Four Exertions. Anyway - I changed the german text - so i hope it is correct now. --62.47.154.101 20:03, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the detailed explanation at German-Wikipedia. Now I can see the difference and the need to use to correct terms. I make the necessary edits in the German-Wikipedia-Article. In Metta --195.3.97.222 07:53, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Re: "Practise" doesn't make perfect

Hi Larry! Good title for your post. That dictionary is my favourite, online. I've checked and you haven't erred. In the English I know of (British or Indian), "practise" is used as a verb and "practice" for other uses. I didn't know that pains had been taken to copyedit the article. I often come across articles, with good contributions but little copyediting done. But fortunately, so was not the case.

I came to Theravada to look for "Karma," probably related to Kamma (caste) and Kammanadu. You seem to be an authority on Buddhism. Could you throw light on India's contributions, especially from Kammanadu.

Since I spotted, what I thought was a mistake, I 'corrected' it. All my actions were in good faith and not intended otherwise. Thanks a lot for the compliments about my username. Thanks for the wishes. Wishing you all the very best, Thanking You, AltruismTo talk 05:48, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your reply and references. Thanks for the wishes. Wishing you all the best, Thanking You, AltruismTo talk 06:52, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Meditation and ethics

Thanks for your thoughtful post. I intend to thoroughly expand that article. I would appreciate your help. We need to emphasize the three-pronged approach of the Noble Eightfold Path, because in my view that, anatman, and dukkha are at the core of the Buddha's message. They are mutually complimentary and all necessary. I think a sidebar would be good. If you want that second bit out of the intro per WP:LEAD then by all means, do something with it. It was just a first step. Arrow740 19:46, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Also I was not referring to vipassana with the "insight." Arrow740 19:47, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

It looks great. How should we use it? Arrow740 06:54, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
Great work on that sidebar. I think it helps to clearly introduce the place of meditation in Buddhist thought. Arrow740 04:30, 23 June 2007 (UTC)


Tooth of Buddha

Hello Larry, it seems to me some of the info in Sri Dalada Maligawa should really be in Relic of the tooth of the Buddha, especially the info on the history of the tooth. I have some pictures of previous temples where the Tooth resided: two temples in Anuradhapura and three in Polonnaruwa. All these temples are in ruins, of course. Not all of them are mentioned in the article, especially I didn't see the Vatadage (?spelling?) mentioned, but in the Pollonaruwa museum it said that that was the last temple in Pollonaruwa where the tooth was kept. All the best, Greetings, Sacca 09:18, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Obviously you liked the previous puctures... here's some new ones:

Greetings, Sacca 10:13, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

template on early buddhism?

Hi Larry, would you be interested to maybe help to make a nice template on early Buddhism? Including pre-sectarian Buddhism, the 4 first buddhist councils and the various early buddhist schools? --> of these 18 schools, maybe only the 10 most important ones would be enough. Many of these schools are a bit obscure in that we don't know enough about them. Also the Pali Canon, the Agamas and the newly discovered Gandhari scriptures could be linked to.

The most important schools and councils, in (approximate) order of coming into being:

  • pre-sectarian Buddhism
  • first Buddhist council
  • second Buddhist council
  • Sthaviravada
  • Mahasanghika
  • Sarvastivada
  • Pudgalavada
  • Third Buddhist Council
  • Vibhajjavada
  • Theravada
  • Mahisasaka
  • Dharmaguptaka
  • Fourth Buddhist Council, Sri Lanka
  • Fourth Buddhist Council, Gandhara/Kashmir

Scriptures (oldest ones first, again approximately..)

  • Atthakavagga and Parayanavagga
  • Digha Nikaya/Agama
  • Majjhima Nikaya/Agama
  • Samyutta Nikaya/Agama
  • Anguttara Nikaya/Agama
  • oldest books of the Khuddaka Nikaya/Agama: dhammapada, theragatha, therigatha, suttanipata, itivuttaka, udana
  • Vinaya Pitaka (after the Sutta Pitaka because Buddha did not lay down rules until after a significant amount of time)
  • Abhidhamma Pitaka (several hundreds of years after Buddha), last book composed is probaly the Kathavatthu?)
  • small scriptures such as the Jatakas, Milindapanha and Buddhavamsa, which are now part of the Khuddaka Nikaya
  • Parivara - very late addition to Vinaya Pitaka, around 500 years after Buddha
  • To recap: Currently existing verions of these books can be found in these collections: Pali Canon, Agamas, Gandhari scriptures.

We could do it like this, in order of age. This would be recognizing the importance of the early-ness of these

schools and scriptures. What do you think? Greetings, Sacca 08:54, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Hello Larry, thanks for your reactions, yes that image would do if it was cropped, but it somehow misses something for me. Also, what about copyright? It seems to be a relatively new drawing, taken from some Thai book I would think. We could also use an image of a Bodhi leaf, which is more simple and associated from the earliest time to the Buddha or enlightenment, such as...

Nice, simple and inspiring, no? Anyway, I am not sure to what extent I will be present in the next few weeks. You can count on me coming back though and checking in with you again on this... with metta, Greetings, Sacca 06:42, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

I like this one

hi Larry, this is the one I like most:
pre-sectarian
├ Sthaviravāda
│ ├ Pudgalavāda
│ ├ Vibhajjavāda
│ │ ├ Theravāda
│ │ └ Dharma-
│ │ guptaka
│ └ Sarvāstivāda
└ Mahāsaṃghika

Concerning the texts, it would be OK to just use the 3 parts. I'd also like a reference to the Gandharan Buddhist texts, though. Maybe just:

-Pali Canon -Agamas -Gandharan Buddhist Texts (but actually, not all of these texts are in the Pali Canon/ Agama category) - I think the british library collection is pali canon/agama category.

Maybe a link to an article on this subject can be included, too (and the article written...). thanks a lot for your work, Greetings, Sacca 03:17, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Maybe this one would be better? Seems to work better with formatting.

pre-sectarian
Mahāsaṃghika
Sthaviravāda
├ Sarvāstivāda
└ Vibhajjavāda
  ├ Theravāda
  └ Dharmaguptaka

Greetings, Sacca 03:19, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Re:

You're welcome...--Doron 14:25, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Passaddhi / Passambhaya ?

Hi Larry, How are you doing ? Yes, you have correctly identified these two words. I can see you have been quite busy with this article, but there is no need to limit the presentation to Theravada only. Much of this would also have been familiar to the early non-Theravadin schools and many Mahayanikas as well, hence it might be a good idea to include Sanskrit equivalents as well.

As for the Nattier reference, it is: Jan Nattier, "The Heart Sutra: A Chinese Apocryphal Text ?" Journal of the International Association of Buddhist Studies, vol 15, no 2 (1992) pp153-223. My impression is that most scholars in the field have found her arguments fairly convincing.--Stephen Hodge 22:25, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Hi Larry,
Glad to be of help -- you can reduce your effusive expressions of thanks: you are one of the most pleasant and modest people to deal with in this area of Wiki and are welcome to any help I can give. I wish there were more like you. The Sanskrit for "passaddhi" is "praśrabdhi", but I'll try and fill in the Sanskrit equivalents in the next few days.--Stephen Hodge 02:19, 16 July 2007 (UTC)


Ineffable Skandhas

Hallo dear Larry. Thanks for your very nice message. As always, it is a real joy to hear from you. I think your point is very reasonable and sensible, and I shall try to do what you suggest later tonight. I hope you are well, and thanks again for all you do to make Wiki Buddhism better and better (I still think you are an exemplar of Buddhism's "gentle speech" - I wish more were like you - I certainly agree with Stephen Hodge there!). All warm wishes to you, Larry. From Tony. TonyMPNS 17:21, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

  • Hallo again dear Larry. Thank you for your very kind note. You are the pinnacle of urbanity and kindness! I'm glad you like the new position of my "skandha" paragraph. Thanks again, Larry. All best wishes. Tony (no need to reply to this one!). TonyMPNS 07:32, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks!

Thanks for your kind words, Larry. I meant to reply sooner, but I've been a bit swamped for the past couple weeks- reflected in my recent invisibility. Always appreciate your good ideas and civility. --Clay Collier 20:34, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

early buddhism

the template looks nice, the contents are fine. But could we maybe make the box around the temple a bit less thick? Otherwise it's good. thanks a lot. I think it's ready for going live now..Greetings, Sacca 11:04, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Kudoes to you guys for the template. I saw it recently and thought it was great.  :) Ph0kin 01:21, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Pure Land/Shingon sections greatly expanded

Hi Larry,

I've been working quite a bit on the Pure Land sections and to a lesser extent the Shingon ones as well. I have expanded the Jodo Shu article quite a bit and added some much needed citations. I have also written a number of new articles recently on lesser-known Pure Land monks: Shoko, Shoku, and the Seizan branch of Buddhism. I also wrote the Mantra of Light article as well as Myoe; both are related to Shingon Buddhism.

I also wrote the article on the Seven Patriarchs of Jodo Shinshu and wrote articles for two of the patriarchs: Shan-tao and Tan-luan. I hope to write one more for Tao-cho. That would cover the seven patriarchs nicely.

Speaking of citations, I have been trying to add more of them to pre-existing texts as well. The Trikaya article is looking a little better, now that it properly references the Pali Canon, and in other random places, I have been replacing klunky citations with more Wiki-friendly ones.  :)

If you have time, please don't hesitate to poke around and take a look. We Wiki-Buddhists gotta stick together. :D

Naive Wikipedia question

Dear Larry,

I don't know much about Psychology, but I know much less than that still about Buddhism. My question really refers to Wikipedia in general. The reason I am asking you is that I see that you sign your name, and through it (your user page) I can see that you are both a learned Buddhist and that you seem to be Jewish too (Last name + category: Sabbath). No big deal up to this point, I guess. By the way, I am also Jewish in my ethnic origins. My question is this: I sign my Wikipedia contributions with a user id (warshy 16:30, 30 August 2007 (UTC)), but in my user page I give my name and the place where I live. But after studying this Wikipedia phenomenon for some time, I see that the general usage here is for people to just use user names, and, in general, to not give any other personal information, such as a person's real name for example in the user page. I thought that the appropriate ethical behavior would have been for a person, if signing through an undescript user name or pseudonym, to give at least his or her real name in the user page. But in most of the cases I have looked into over the past few months, I see that this does not seem to be the accepted online ethos in Wikipedia. In your case, I saw you were signing your edit on someone's personal page with what looks to be a person's real name. This is what caught my attention. Why do you think the above is the Wikipedia "ethos," and, since you seem to sign with your own name, do you agree with my initial assumption that the appropriate ethical behavior in Wikipedia should be for a person to at least give his or her real name in life? Thanks for your musings on the subject. Sincerely, warshy 16:30, 30 August 2007 (UTC)


You Are Always So Kind!

Hallo dear and good Larry. Thank you so much for your very kind comments and concern, expressed on my User Page. That is so very thoughtful of you, and I appreciate it very much. Don't worry, Larry: I don't feel crowded out in the discussion of "Buddhism and Intellectualism", but I have said the main things that I feel I can contribute there. Also, I am having a bit of a battle at present with some impolite person who keeps deleting a whole section of mine from the "God in Buddhism" article! I wish other Wiki editors were as polite, urbane and reasonable as yourself, Larry! I have yet to find your equal on Wikipedia. Thank you again most sincerely for your great kindness. I respect you a lot (as does Stephen Hodge, I know!). Warm wishes to you. From Tony. TonyMPNS 16:58, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

A kind champion. 'Khusro! the river of love has a reverse flow

He who enters will drown, he who drowns will get across.' Amir Khusro--Ziji (talk email) 09:19, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Talk Buddhism side box

Thanks Larry but just to say I can't actually find the talk/side box you made sorry! please lead me to it either here or on my talk page as you prefer. many thanks kind regards Peter morrell 21:00, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Larry I found it. It's all fine no probs. cheers Peter morrell 05:39, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

I was interested in the points you extracted from those articles I posted up. I think some of those could be usefully included where possible in the Buddhism article. I will try and return to that discussion and maybe try to improve the wording here and there in the main article. I guess that you found Zen deficient in some way and that is why you found more 'meat on the bones' in Theravada? I have flitted between Zen and Tibetan for similar reasons. Though Zen, I think, gives one an experience of meditation that is unsurpassed, yet they have frustratingly little taste for philosophy and the human soul takes comfort from at least a modicum of reasons and explanations...so I find. Anyway, thanks again for your valuable contributions. kind regards Peter morrell 06:26, 3 September 2007 (UTC)


You Are Too Kind, Dear Larry!

Thank you very, very much, wonderful Larry, for your most generous gifting of a Wiki star to me. That is enormously kind of you, and I appreciate it hugely. Actually, it is not myself who is an exemplar of best Wiki practice and communal interaction - it is your good self! All warm wishes and great thanks to you for being the genuine Buddhist that you are! Cordially, Tony. TonyMPNS 18:45, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Vibhanga

Thanks for adding the chapter titles, which I hadn't got round to. However, 2 of them are mistranslated:

  • appamañña, though grammatically it could be appa-mañña, which might be translated as you have it, is actually a-ppamañña, immeasurable; the chapter is actually about the brahmaviharas, for which this is an alternative name
  • sikkhāpada is of course the name of the Patimokkha rules (apart from the adhikaranasamathas), but in this chapter it refers to the 5 precepts

You also vary between singular & plural, which I haven't bothered to deal with yet. Peter jackson 10:33, 6 October 2007 (UTC)


Gautama Buddha Article

Hallo wonderful Larry! Great to hear from you, as always. Thanks so much for your help. Oh! I'll have to read the rest of the discussion on the "Buddha" article and see what I think. I'm a bit pressed for time these days ..... Sorry about that. I do hope you are well and thriving. Thank you as ever for being such a non-aggressive and kind person. Warm wishes in Dhamma to you. From your Wiki friend Tony. TonyMPNS 10:36, 10 October 2007 (UTC) 10:35, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

  • Thank you once again, dear friend Larry, for all your great benevolence and wonderful work on Wiki. Re. the Buddha article: I think we shall just have to see what the majority choose to do with this now. You've contributed magnificently to the debate. I myself will accept what the majority want on this issue. Let's see what happens! All warm wishes and thanks to you. From Tony. (No need to reply to this!). TonyMPNS 20:27, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Udana

Thanks again. Pataligamiya is just an adjectival derivative from Pataligama, later Pataliputta/putta, now Patna. It probably refers to the inhabitants, but that needs checking. The name is given to this vagga because it includes material from the Maha Parinibbana Sutta set there.

Have you examined Hinüber's wording on angas carefully? It is true that udana was 1 of the 9 angas in early times, but does he specifically identify that with the current collection? Peter jackson 08:45, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Sutta arrangement within nikayas

Not very clear, is it? My guess is that H regards the 1st 3 nikayas as some sort of whole, with the divisions between them by length, & the Anguttara as separate, with the divisions within it numerical. The basis of the distinction might be that the 1st 3 tend to emphasize teaching in terms of dhammas, while the A tends to emphasize teaching in terms of persons. &/or he might regard the A as later (or earlier). Peter jackson 11:00, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Renaming Buddha

Thanks for your invitation but i am not so knowledgable about Buddhism. That was my argument at Gautama Buddha. People not familiar to Buddhism relate Buddha with the historical Buddha, so do many encyclopedia. I think Buddha (general) would be fine but i do not know what the other nominee Buddhahood means. Buddhahood currents redirects to Bodhi. Is Bodhi and Buddha the same???? Both the articles relate , their focusses to enlightenment and Nirvana.(both terms used in lead of the resp. articles). According to my knowledge of Sanskrit, both word originate from the same verb budha - to know. --Redtigerxyz 11:16, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

  • Just a quickie, dear and great Larry, to thank you for your own kind words of thanks! It's always a pleasure sharing Dhamma with you. All warm wishes to you and yours. From Tony. TonyMPNS 15:55, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks & my name Dhammapal

Hi Larry, Thanks so much for all your hard work lately. I have your list of contributions bookmarked. The Buddha disambiguation issue I started in June 2006: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Buddha#Let.E2.80.99s_replace_sectarian_views_about_Buddha_with_consensus I am worried about my nickname Dhammapal. “Dhamma” (as opposed to Dharma) could suggest a Theravada bias. I thought of changing it but I would lose my reputation of successful edits (Jimmy Wales was thinking of using editing histories to give edits credibility). I suppose that it is honest to admit that I am Theravadin and try to be a “pal” in my dealings on Wikipedia. What do you think? Thanks / Antony Dhammapal 21:45, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Your hard work processing my contributions

Hi Larry,

Thanks so much for your hard work rewriting my contributions to be acceptable as Encyclopedia articles. I am a benefactor of Access to Insight and will write to John Bullitt. I’m sorry you have had to clean up after me. With metta Dhammapal 20:30, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

My Contributions that have quoted rather than re-writing

Hi Larry,

I just went through all my contributions and made a list of cases where I have quoted instead of re-writing. Sorry to dump this on your talk page. Is there somewhere else I can post it without getting into trouble?

Bhikkhu Bodhi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upeksa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics_in_religion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacca http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nekkhamma http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_relativism

Thanissaro Bhikkhu Paragraph beginning with “Karma really is happening…” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma_in_Buddhism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honesty#Buddhist_teachings_on_honesty http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia#Dharmic_Religions

Hellmuth Hecker http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ananda

Miscellaneous http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditation http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sangha http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_Eightfold_Path http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddha

A huge amount of work to re-write! A bit overwhelming. Maybe I should check with John Bullitt first about whether it might be OK to quote on Wikipedia.

with metta Dhammapal 21:55, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi Larry,
What a detailed response! Sadhu! You deserve a well-earned break!
The carpet is being laid but my Dad has kindly moved my computer to another room so I’ll still be online.
Could we move your post onto a discussion page so that we don’t have to go back and forth between our UserTalk pages, and also other people can listen in and contribute?
What about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Buddhism
Thankyou for your confidence that my intentions have been good in my dealings with Wikipedia, particularly Simple English version. I hope my breaking the copyright rules won’t jeopardize my account with Wikipedia. I thought Wikipedia was for free distribution. I have no excuse for not giving citations for some of my favorite Simple English contributions. At least I have documented my contributions now. I’ll take the risk that my work (opps – not my work <smile>) may be deleted.
I’ll try to practice restraint in the future.
With metta Dhammapal 04:59, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi Larry, With your permission I’ve merged our discussions and posted them to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Buddhism I’ll see you there! Dhammapal 06:01, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Buddha (general)

  • Hallo dear and good Larry. Thank you so much for your very kind message. I personally am happy with "Buddha (general)", but I can see possible problems with it. I would also be OK with "Buddhahood". But what about "Buddha (general term)"?? That is surely clear, no?

Larry, I have to tell you that I will not be able to contribute much or anything to Wiki in the coming months, as I am preparing to start a new phase of my life and move abroad - to Thailand. I plan to live and work out there. As you can imagine, there are numerous things for me to prepare (not least - learning the Thai language!). Anyway, good luck and much happiness to you. You really and most richly deserve the fullest happiness always! Best wishes in the Dhamma/ Dharma. Your Wiki friend, Tony. TonyMPNS (talk) 11:58, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Sorry for the confusion Larry, the _(general) looked so familiar somehow, but I can't find it either, so please just go ahead whatever others think makes sense. Thanks for your patience. :-)rudy (talk) 23:23, 27 November 2007 (UTC)


Congratulations

Nice to see the article Gautama Buddha being in a proper place, thanks to you! So thank you for your hard work in this. Also, the issue of the Buddha not being a military general was maybe not foreseen when the voting took place. Buddhahood would thus be better. Anyway, Greetings, Sacca 09:30, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Conclusions?

Would you be willing to share your conclusions from asking others on the talk:Buddha (general) page? It seems the discussion there stalled. — Sebastian 17:15, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Samatha

The talk page seems to redirect to the main page, so I'm commenting here. My only point at present is that the article as you've drafted it is almost entirely original research, & so should not be used as a WP article. It's not for us to interpret & summarize primary sources for ourselves. Our job is to find out what scholars have said & report that. Peter jackson (talk) 18:26, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Right Concentration on the Eightfold Path page

I quite like the translation from the canon being used on the Eightfold Path page for Right Concentration. But where does it come from? The footnote suggests it's from Bhikkhu Bodhi but there's no Bodhi reference for 1998. It's from Samyutta Nikaya 45.8, but which translation? I've noticed a lot of thrashing about on this page in recent weeks. Something's been lost.

Kind regards Morley Chalmers (talk) 21:43, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Have checked out Thanissaro at Access to Insight and Bhikkhu Bodhi as published in 1995 and 2000 by Wisdom. Nothing comes close. I'm providing my research below. I still prefer what's currently being published on WP on the Eightfold Path page for its conciseness and choice of words. If I ever stumble across the correct attribution I'll share it with you.
From Wikipedia
“And what, monks, is right concentration?
1. “Quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unwholesome states, a monk enters in the first jhāna: rapture and pleasure born from detachment, accompanied by movement of the mind onto the object and retention of the mind on the object.
2. “With the stilling of directed thought and evaluation, he enters and remains in the second jhāna: rapture and pleasure born of concentration; fixed single-pointed awareness free from movement of the mind onto the object and retention of the mind on the object; assurance.
3. “With the fading of rapture, he remains in equanimity, mindful and fully aware, and physically sensitive of pleasure. He enters and remains in the third jhāna which the Noble Ones declare to be ‘Equanimous and mindful, he has a pleasurable abiding.’
4. “With the abandoning of pleasure and pain... as with the earlier disappearance of elation and distress... he enters and remains in the fourth jhāna: purity of equanimity and mindfulness, neither in pleasure nor in pain.
“This, monks, is called right concentration.”
Samyutta 45.8
Thanissaro
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn45/sn45.008.than.html
"And what, monks, is right concentration? (i) There is the case where a monk — quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful (mental) qualities — enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. (ii) With the stilling of directed thoughts & evaluations, he enters & remains in the second jhana: rapture & pleasure born of concentration, unification of awareness free from directed thought & evaluation — internal assurance. (iii) With the fading of rapture, he remains in equanimity, is mindful & alert, and senses pleasure with the body. He enters & remains in the third jhana, of which the Noble Ones declare, 'Equanimous & mindful, he has a pleasurable abiding.' (iv) With the abandoning of pleasure & pain — as with the earlier disappearance of elation & distress — he enters & remains in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither pleasure nor pain. This, monks, is called right concentration."
Bhikkhu Bodhi, page 1529
And what, bhikkhus, is right concentration? Here, bhikkhus, secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unwholesome states, a bhikkhu enters and dwells in the first jhana, which is accompanied by thought and examination, with rapture and happiness born of seclusion. With the subsiding of thought and examination, he enters and dwells in the second jhana, which has internal confidence and unification of mind, is without thought and examination, and has rapture and happiness born of concentration. With the fading away as well of rapture, he dwells equanimous and, mindful and clearly comprehending, he experiences third jhana of which the noble ones declare: 'He is equanimous, mindful, one who dwells happily.' With the abandoning of pleasure and pain, and with the previous passing away of joy and displeasure, he enters and dwells in the fourth jhana, which is neither painful nor pleasant and includes the purification of mindfulness by equanimity. This is called right concentration.
Majjhima 141
Thanissaro
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.141.than.html
"And what is right concentration? There is the case where a monk — quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful (mental) qualities — enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. With the stilling of directed thoughts & evaluations, he enters & remains in the second jhana: rapture & pleasure born of composure, unification of awareness free from directed thought & evaluation — internal assurance. With the fading of rapture, he remains in equanimity, is mindful & alert, and senses pleasure with the body. He enters & remains in the third jhana, of which the Noble Ones declare, 'Equanimous & mindful, he has a pleasurable abiding.' With the abandoning of pleasure & pain — as with the earlier disappearance of elation & distress — he enters & remains in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither pleasure nor pain. This is called right concentration.
Bhikkhu Bodhi Page 1101
And what, friends, is right concentration? Here, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unwholesome states, a bhikkhu enters upon and abides in the first jhana, which is accompanied by applied and sustained thought, with rapture and pleasure born of seclusion. With the stilling of applied and sustained thought, he enters upon and abides in the second jhana, which has self-confidence and singleness of mind without applied and sustained thought, with rapture and pleasure born of concentration. With the fading away as well of rapture, he abides in equanimity, and mindful and fully aware, still feeling pleasure with the body, he enters upon and abides in the third jhana, on account of which noble ones announce: 'He has a pleasant abiding who has equanimity and is mindful.' With the abandoning of pleasure and pain, and with the previous disappearance of pleasure and pain, and with the previous disappearance of joy and grief, he enters upon and abides in the fourth jhana, which has neither-pain-nor-pleasure and purity of mindfulness due to equanimity. This is called right concentration.
Kind regards, Morley Chalmers (talk) 16:21, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
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