User talk:MWQs

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G'day MWQs, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions; they have helped improve Wikipedia and made it more informative. I hope you enjoy using Wikipedia and decide to make additional contributions.

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Thank you for signing up! JarrahTree 06:29, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. MWQs (talk) 21:55, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

@JarrahTree I was looking for Oceania and Antarctica actually, on the suggested edits thing, do you know how to get more specific suggestions of articles needing work? MWQs (talk) 11:36, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Oceania is best understood at WP:WikiProject Oceania and similarly WP:WikiProject Antarctica. That is one way in. A significant number of Oceania items have really been more specifically Australian, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea context, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Unknown-importance_Oceania_articles - however there is inadequate distinction as to where the subsidiary projects fit, Melanesia, Micronesia, Polynesia - when the Oceania project was created there were inadequate numbers involved at any point - as a consequence it is a project and subprojects that are needing a lot of care and understanding.

Antarctica has recent rationalisation of articles, and at points the distinction between the territorial/administrative divisions are not necessarily as neat or easy to follow - but worth checking out. Very simple things like project tagging was something quite recent. There are other ways again to reply to your question -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Oceania/Popular_pages is at times a highly mysterious point of contact.

But enough for the moment. JarrahTree 12:06, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

@JarrahTree those links don't seem to exist? MWQs (talk) 13:53, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

The cartegory links do though. MWQs (talk) 13:56, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Sandboxes

are by definition not in main space - please do not activate live categories in sandbox space. I have disabled your current items. Thank you. JarrahTree 06:31, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean? Did you fix it all already or do I need to do something? MWQs (talk) 21:47, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

@JarrahTree I've been deleting all the categories off things when I copy them to there now, does that fix it? I usually edit bits there and then copy back just the bits I've worked on, so I don't really need the whole article.MWQs (talk) 11:39, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Please don't add Category: FOO to pages that aren't articles. Please look at the edits JarrahTree and I made to figure out how to not keep repeating the same mistake. Mason (talk) 22:44, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

@Smasongarrison

Sorry, if I did that it wasn't intentional.

I often copy a whole page to my sandbox to work on, but ever since JarrahTree mentioned that I've been deleting the categories entirely. Sorry if I missed one.

Have you already fixed wherever I forgot to do that? Or do I need to do something further.

But I thought the colon in front like you did on that message also deactivated them? If I ever do need the categories it's it OK to use that in my sandbox?

MWQs (talk) 02:32, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

It does deactivate them, if you don't miss any. Removing or commenting them out is pretty easy. Mason (talk) 02:34, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

@Smasongarrison Yes, I usually do just remove them, sorry I forgot, I probably needed sleep or a coffee. MWQs (talk) 03:16, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

infobox fusion

Abu Mahmoud
أبو محمود
Personal details
Born	(1960-02-14)14 February 1960 London
Died	19 January 2010(2010-01-19) (aged 49) Dublin
Resting place	Glasgow
Political party	Sinn Fein
Parent	His father was from Melbourne
Military career
Allegiance	IRA
Rank	Chief Logistics Office

How do I combine infobox thingies if none of the existing options have all the relevant fields? Like if a person had a few different careers?

MWQs (talk) 23:24, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Try looking at the source for the infobox on John Glenn where the | module= {{Infobox method is used to chain infoboxes. — jmcgnh^{(talk) (contribs)} 00:58, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

@Jmcgnh, Thank you for the example, that helped a bit. But I still can't get it to fit together, I keep getting a box in a box. I tried a few combinations of different infoboxes, the results were a bit different, I think for a few of them I managed to make the "child" parameter work to stop the name doubling up, but none of them fit together neatly like the example. MWQs (talk) 06:22, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Sometimes the child parameter works, other times you may have to use the embed parameter. Check the infobox's documentation in each case. I'm sure there is work that could be done to make the infoboxes more consistent, but they are already such a sprawling mess that you just have to adapt rather than wait for everything to be rationalized.

You should also be careful about how the different infoboxes handle similar data to avoid repetitions or odd-looking placements. For instance, the parameters for birthplace and burial place (resting place) from the outer infobox should be used instead of the ones from the child infobox. — jmcgnh^{(talk) (contribs)} 08:09, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. @Jmcgnh The key details just ended up that way around because I kept swapping the nesting trying to make it work. MWQs (talk) 07:11, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

How difficult is it to add one extra parameter to a box? If I find a box that has all except one, can I just add the missing field myself somehow? MWQs (talk) 07:12, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

I doubt it's all that difficult, technically, but it may require permissions or getting consensus. You would need to look carefully at the documentation for Template:Infobox to see how your new field could be made to fit in. And, sometimes, your need has already been anticipated, it's just in an infobox template that you haven't found yet. — jmcgnh^{(talk) (contribs)} 03:12, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

@Jmcgnh is there anything in particular I need to watch out for with "need to look carefully to see how it would be made to fit"? MWQs (talk) 08:07, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

That's just me looking at the documentation and being impressed by how much I don't know about how the infobox module works. Without trying it, I don't know what stumbling blocks one is likely to encounter. — jmcgnh^{(talk) (contribs)} 15:01, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

@Jmcgnh, politician and officeholder seem very versatile (one is a redirect to the other), is it OK to use one with a name that doesn't match well? As in the name of the infobox is incongrous with the person? If the fields are all useful? MWQs (talk) 17:13, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

If it seems too incongruous, someone may object. But try it, if it allows you to get the fields you want. — jmcgnh^{(talk) (contribs)} 19:18, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for May 16

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Your edits to Jewish fascism

Hi, I'm noticing that you're repeatedly blanking and restoring content on Jewish fascism. Please note that unexplained blanking, even if self-reverted, is disruptive. Thanks,Neuropol^Talk 13:04, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

@Neuropol, I was just moving sections. Sorry I should have written edit summaries, I usly do. I was integrating some things I had been working on in my sandbox, I forgot to go back to writing edit summaries when I switched to main page. MWQs (talk) 13:17, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Ah, I see. It comes across quite concerningly on diffs. Thank you for responding, and thank you for improving Wikipedia! Thanks,Neuropol^Talk 13:18, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

@Neuropol, Is there a way to add edit summaries after? Or correct typos etc.? I wrote a proper summary for the first one, I just forgot to explain myself when shuffling it around to fit into the article. MWQs (talk) 13:29, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

No retrospective edit summaries, unfortunately. However, you should be good now that I've left you a message. Thanks,Neuropol^Talk 13:36, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

@Neuropol, Isn't that the wrong way around? I already know what I was doing in those edits. I put a message on the talk page incase I confused anyone else, and because my subsequent edits also buried the edit summary with an explanation of what I added and from where. MWQs (talk) 06:07, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

@Neuropol, Have you been working on that article much? What do you think of the name? It seems to be a valid topic to have an article about, but the name is a bit provocative? Maybe "fascist Jewish nationalism" would be an improvement? MWQs (talk) 06:14, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

I think you should use whichever name is most present or meaningful. If you choose to use "Jewish fascism", make sure it is supportable, and if you're unsure, I suggest gathering consensus. Thanks,Neuropol^Talk 13:02, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

@Neuropol

I didn't pick the name, I just found a page started by others.

Where did you see my edits if you're not working on the page?

MWQs (talk) 17:09, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

I originally saw your edits when patrolling recent changes. It showed up as "likely vandalism" or "likely has problems", but it seems it was just an error in automation. Thanks,Neuropol^Talk 17:22, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

@Neuropol, Thanks for explaining. MWQs (talk) 16:17, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Template for "check the source actually says that"?

Is there a variation of {{citation needed}} for "check the source actually says that"? If it was a source I had access to I would do it myself, but a few I've seen are books that I don't have access to.

Also, is there a template for "needs more than one source" or "needs a better source"? For where an important or controversial statement is supported by a single source or a weak source.

MWQs (talk) 07:06, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

{{disputed}} is useful if you don't think a source says what it says, {{failed verification}} if it's not in the source. {{one source}} is useful if there's only one source, {{refimprove}} can also be used. If you want more help, stop by the Teahouse, or Wikipedia's live help channel, or the help desk to ask someone for assistance. Primefac (talk) 07:16, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

@Primefac, Thank you. Sorry I was reading backwards from the end. Those seem to solve the issues that the other two don't yet cover.

I'll have a closer look. MWQs (talk) 07:31, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Should I use those other links instead of the {{help me}} template? Or are they just additional suggestions? MWQs (talk) 07:32, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

They're just other options. Primefac (talk) 08:38, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

@Primefac, Thank you. MWQs (talk) 09:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

(edit conflict)

You can see most of the relevant templates here: Template:Inline cleanup tags

As you can see {{better source needed}} and {{verify source}} already exist for two of your questions.

I would expect "needs more than one source" to be a very rare situation; perhaps {{Needs independent confirmation}} is close enough? — jmcgnh^{(talk) (contribs)} 07:22, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

@Jmcgnh, Thank you, verify source and better source probably cover it well enough. MWQs (talk) 07:28, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

What did you mean by "eddit conflict"? MWQs (talk) 07:28, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

An edit conflict occurs when two different editors are attempting to make changes to the same page at the same time. One of them gets their changes in first and the second one is informed that there has been an edit conflict.

What to do? Often, the first response is good enough so I simply abandon my attempt. Other times, I feel that the response I've prepared sheds a different light on the question and is still worth posting. — jmcgnh^{(talk) (contribs)} 07:38, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

@Jmcgnh, Thank you. MWQs (talk) 09:41, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your contributions to Far-right politics in Israel

I went inactive on Wikipedia for a short while due to exhaustion from creating the article and writing so much content on far-right politics in Israel. I'm surprised at how much content you added to the article. Thank you! Alon Alush (talk) 10:28, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

@Alon Alush, Thank you. MWQs (talk) 10:45, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for May 23

An automated process has detected that you recently added links to disambiguation pages.

Far-right politics in Israel

added a link pointing to Third intifada

Jewish fascism

added a link pointing to Liberal

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 17:54, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

While I appreciate your contributions...

I'm not sure that sub-sub-sections on the LGBT rights in the State of Palestine page would be helpful to readers. Having one paragraph sub-sections seems a bit excessive to me, so I think just having one sub-section for "Gaza Strip police and civilians" makes more sense than the sub-section names you proposed. Historyday01 (talk) 14:26, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

@Historyday01 If you are worried about readers, why did you also remove the {{anchor}} and not just the subheadings? Can you please restore the {{anchor|Eshtewi}} so that links from other pages still work. If you very strongly object to the headings, the anchor can go at the start of the paragraph? But please put it back somewhere near, the section about Maħmoud Eshtewi, aka Mahmoud Ishtiwi. It is quite a long page and the variable spelling (there's more than two) means ctrl+F wouldn't help readers find the relevant section. MWQs (talk) 16:13, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

I added back the anchor, but I don't see his name mentioned that many times on Wikipedia (I only found it mentioned on three other articles), so I'm not sure how helpful the anchor is, honestly. Historyday01 (talk) 18:38, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Tħank you. MWQs (talk) 04:24, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

and why did you remove "militants" from the level 2 heading? if you wanted it to include the section about Eshtewi without a second sub heading? He was the commander of the Zeitoun Battalion and he was executed by Al Qassam. As with everything in Gaza, it's a bit ambiguous, but the word "militant" referred to his paragraph, civilians and police both only referred to the longer paragraphs. MWQs (talk) 16:52, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

In terms of "militants", that term is pejorative (and used disparagingly from my experience) and if we are talking about ALL the people in the Gaza it would be wrong to call them militants. We should NOT be implying that in any way, shape, or form. Historyday01 (talk) 18:31, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

@Historyday01, You probably are right that the headings weren't clear, it seems they didn't communicate what I intended very well at all.

"Militants" did not refer to all the people in the Gaza Strip. It referred to the Al-Qassam Brigades (the militant wing of the Hamas movement), the people who killed Eshtewi.

The level two subheading "Gaza Strip police and militants" had two separate subheadings under it, the civilians (harmed by police) and Eshtewi (tortured and killed by Al-Qassam militants).

Keeping the level 2 heading as just "Gaza Strip" works better. But I want to separate Eshtewi somehow.

MWQs (talk) 04:51, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

As I said in another comment, I don't think giving Eshtewi a separate section is necessary, considering the ambiguity of the charges against him, as I stated elsewhere on this page. Historyday01 (talk) 13:49, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

The "queer civilians…" heading probably is a bit redundant (after I switched the order to put the typical cases first) so I'm happy to leave that but out. But the next step of my exit was going to be expanding the section on Eshtewi, it wasn't going to stay a tiny sub-section. So, do you have any objections to how I phrased that heading? Is there a different heading you would find more acceptable? If so, can you please add your preferred heading to the section about the executed Qassam Commander. MWQs (talk) 17:14, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

My issue with the queer civilians subheading is that it doesn't work because there are queer civilians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and within the occupying power, so it seems strange to have one heading for one group of civilians and not the others. As such, it makes more sense to leave it out. Historyday01 (talk) 18:32, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

@Historyday01, I meant the other heading. I was trying to separate Mahmoud Eshtewi (a horrific but highly atypical case) from the civilians.

Eshtewi was the (former) commander of the Zeitoun battalion, a unit of the Al-Qassam Brigades. Al-Qassam are the "Hamas terrorists" who did 7 October attacks, and previous attacks. Hamas are a political party and Al-Qassam are the militant wing, a bit like Sinn Fein and the IRA.

Eshtewi is often used to show "Gaza kills gays" but he had 2 wives and 3 kids, and even if he was bi or closeted, that's not why they killed him. He was originally accused of giving Israel the information that led to the death of Widad and Ali Deif (Mohammad Deif's wife and 7-month-old son, who died in an airstrike on the family home). He was also accused of several and other things.

MWQs (talk) 05:28, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Since the Gaza Strip section is so short, and we already have an anchor for his name, I'm not sure a section specifically for him is necessarily needed. I am roughly familiar with the case, while realizing there may be some issues with translation, as the U.S. newspapers translated it as related to him being gay, but the original charges were apparently vague. Historyday01 (talk) 13:48, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

"Gaza Strip police and civilians" doesn't describe the content under it, can we please change that to just "Gaza Strip"? MWQs (talk) 17:17, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Well, that name change was a compromise between what you proposed and what was there before, but I'm fine with changing it to "Gaza Strip." Historyday01 (talk) 18:39, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

@Historyday01 yeah, I was probably over complicating it a bit, and Gaza Strip is more consistent. MWQs (talk) 04:52, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

@Historyday01, I explained a lot above, but the only thing left unresolved is what would you recommend as a heading to separate the section about Eshtewi (as a subheading within Gaza Strip)? MWQs (talk) 05:38, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

There is also a case from the West Bank involving the Lions' Den (militant group) and Shin Bet that I think is worth including. We could put under heading for the region (Gaza Strip and West Bank), or make a 4th section for "militant groups"? Or a separate section for each? MWQs (talk) 06:06, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

The thing is, I'm not sure if we need a separate section for Eshtewi. If we have the anchor and the description of the case, I think that's fine. This could go under a new section after "Gaza Strip" entitled "West Bank", within the "Civil rights and group action" section (I recently renamed). The case could be included with this description:

In April 2023 it was reported that Zuhair Relit (also known as Zoheir Khalil Ghalith), a Palestinian living in Nablus, was killed by the Lions' Den militant group for collaborating with the IDF. Relit alleged he was blackmailed into becoming an informant for the Israeli military, with his confessional video on social media claiming that Shin Bet had an "illicit video" showing him having sexual intercourse with another man. He was later executed by the Lions' Den group.

Historyday01 (talk) 13:45, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

@Historyday01, thank you for writing that. MWQs (talk) 18:34, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

"Civil rights and group action" is a confusing title, from the context of our conversation I think you mean militant groups like Lions' Den? But without that context it looks like it means advocacy heitiki like Al Qaws, which is covered in a different section. The previous title "Civil rights and government action" made more sense. MWQs (talk) 18:47, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

I think the problem is that the murder victims don't really belong in the same section as civil rights, so we're not going to be able to find a good heading for a section with that odd combination of topics.

Eshtewi was probably in "Civil rights and government action" because the story gets turned into "the Hamas government executes people for being gay" (when his murder happened in a different system to the courts that sentence civilian criminals, and he probably wasn't even gay).

MWQs (talk) 19:30, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

redirect category

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Faiq_al-Mabhouh&redirect=no

I'm wanting someone to check if I did this one right before I try adding the classifications to any other redirects.

I'm not sure if that is the right category? And the formatting looks a bit off?

This one is a redirect for a bio page, for a person with an Arabic name that can be romanized many different ways.

MWQs (talk) 14:47, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

You should use {{r from alternate capitalisation}} since that page isn't an "alternate name". I don't see any other issues. If you want more help, change the {{help me-helped}} back into a {{help me}}, stop by the Teahouse, or Wikipedia's live help channel, or the help desk to ask someone for assistance. Primefac (talk) 14:54, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

@Primefac

Most aren't capitalisation, is there another for spelling? MWQs (talk) 17:15, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

That one was caps, but {{r from alternate spelling}} also exists. See Template:R template index for an (almost) complete list of rcat templates. Primefac (talk) 07:27, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

@Primefac is this right now? MWQs (talk) 04:23, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Sure. Primefac (talk) 05:59, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Actually I think that's capitalisation. MWQs (talk) 07:01, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Nomination of Extrajudicial killings in Lebanon for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Extrajudicial killings in Lebanon is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Extrajudicial killings in Lebanon until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.

Fram (talk) 08:18, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 3

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Capital punishment for homosexuality, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Zeitoun.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 17:59, 3 June 2024 (UTC)