User talk:Markstrachan

Welcome, Markstrachan!

Have a plate of cookies!

Welcome to Wikipedia, Markstrachan! I'm Royal Autumn Crest, and I've been assigned as your mentor. Around 10% of new Wikipedia accounts receive a mentor randomly taken from a list of volunteers. It just means I'm here to help with anything you need! We need to have all kinds of people working together to create an online encyclopedia, so I'm glad you're here. Over time, you will figure out what you enjoy doing the most on Wikipedia.

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Again, welcome to Wikipedia!Royal Autumn Crest (talk) 18:27, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your kind message. It has been a lot of work putting together the page on the Aesculapian Club. I feel as though I have been on a steep learning curve, but I am happy with how it looks. I hope it will pass the peer review process. Best wishes, Mark Markstrachan (talk) 10:21, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

License tagging for File:Sir John Bruce.png

Thanks for uploading File:Sir John Bruce.png. You don't seem to have indicated the license status of the image. Wikipedia uses a set of image copyright tags to indicate this information.

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File copyright problem with File:James Cameron.png

Thank you for uploading File:James Cameron.png. However, it is currently missing information on its copyright and licensing status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can verify that it has an acceptable license status and a verifiable source. Please add this information by editing the image description page. You may refer to the image use policy to learn what files you can or cannot upload on Wikipedia. The page on copyright tags may help you to find the correct tag to use for your file. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem.

Please also check any other files you may have uploaded to make sure they are correctly tagged. Here is a list of your uploads.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. Vladlen Manilov ✉ / 12:28, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing out - now sorted! My mistake Markstrachan (talk) 12:44, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for January 1

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Orphaned non-free image File:David Kennedy Henderson.jpeg

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Thanks for uploading File:David Kennedy Henderson.jpeg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 18:06, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

DYK for Aesculapian Club

On 17 January 2023, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Aesculapian Club, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the Aesculapian Club, founded in Edinburgh in 1773, still meets twice a year? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Aesculapian Club. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Aesculapian Club), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

-- RoySmith (talk) 00:03, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Your image uploads

Hi,

I see you have contributed a lot of images recently. I have only had a chance to look into a few of them and have a few comments about licensing and non-free usage. On many images (example: File:Sir John Halliday Croom Obstetrician.png), you state that you are the copyright holder and release the image to the public domain, but also state that the copyright is held by the Aesculapian Club. Talking a picture of a picture does not mean you are the copyright holder. A simple photo of a photo does not create a new copyright, and even if it did, the underlying photo's copyright must be considered. So these images are not really public domain and may need to be deleted as copyright violations. They may qualify for use as non-free content if used for primary identification for deceased individuals if there are no free alternatives. However, such usage for identification in a list article would not be acceptable as that would not meet WP:NFCC#8 (contextual significance). There is at least one image you uploaded as non-free content, but it actually has aged into the public domain. See File:Robert Paterson.png where I have changed the licensing. Copyright and non-free content on Wikipedia can be very confusing. You can get help with it at Media Copyright Questions, and more general help for new editors at the Tea House. -- Whpq (talk) 01:00, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

Thanks very much for highlighting this Whpq. I would very much value your advice on home to proceed. I am the Secretary of the Aesculapian club (and am acting with permission of all the club members), who own the photos in the album, and we are very keen to see these in the public domain because they of their historical significance to medicine in Scotland. The photos were all given to the Club by their subjects who are now deceased. Is there a copyright mechanism that allows us to release them onto Wikipedia - you will see that I have also uploaded many of the images to the relevant Wikipedia page for the individual, where it exists and am also adding references to the individuals where no Wikipedia page exists.

Regarding photos in the public domain, this is another area I have struggled to know what to do. There are some photos in open access articles (such as no 127 Professor John Wyliie) which I have acknowledged. I'd be grateful if you could let me know if I have assigned copyright correctly here.

Thanks again for your input and for guiding me through this minefield!! Markstrachan (talk) 07:45, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

As you are Secretary of the Aesculapian Club, you have a conflict of interest on topics related to it. Please see Wikipedia:Conflict of interest for information about things you need to do or be aware of in this situation. If you are being paid to edit Wikipedia, then you will need to disclose this. See Wikipedia:Paid-contribution disclosure which is policy that must be followed for paid editing. As for what to do with the images, there are some actions that will need to be taken. For all of the images where the copyright is held by the Aesculapian Club, you will need to adjust the licensing. You have used a license which state that you are the copyright holder and are releasing it into the public domain, but the copyright holder is the Aesculapian Club. As such, you should replace the {{PD-self}} license with {{PD-author}} on all those files. Wikipedia will also need to verify that the Aesculapian Club does indeed agree to release the images as public domain. In order to do this, follow the instructions at Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials. -- Whpq (talk) 19:04, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

Thanks again Whpq. The role of Secretary is an unpaid role. I will amend the licence on all of the relevant photos as you have indicated and will view your talk. Thanks so much for your guidance. Markstrachan (talk) 19:22, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

I forgot one other thing you need to do. Once you have sent a permission email, you need to mark each of the files as permission pending so that they will not be deleted for lacking evidence of permission while the VRT team reviews the permissions. To do this add {{subst:OP}} to each of the files. -- Whpq (talk) 19:49, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

OK will do. Thanks again - I really do appreciate this. Markstrachan (talk) 20:00, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

One other quick question - do I have to apply for permission for each photo separately (there are about 200!) or will one email suffice? Markstrachan (talk) 20:06, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

One email that lists out the photos to which it applies should be okay. -- Whpq (talk) 02:51, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

Also, you are adding a rather large number of non-free images to list type articles. This is not permitted, per WP:NFLISTS. Please stop. --Hammersoft (talk) 01:59, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

Thanks Hammersoft. I was not aware this was an issue. I have been in contact with the permissions team and this was what I was advised to do....but I have no more photos to add and so I have indeed stopped. Thanks very much for your comment. Markstrachan (talk) 09:00, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

License tagging for File:Christopher William Clayson.jpeg

Thanks for uploading File:Christopher William Clayson.jpeg. You don't seem to have indicated the license status of the image. Wikipedia uses a set of image copyright tags to indicate this information.

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Replaceable fair use File:Ralph Stockman.png

Thanks for uploading File:Ralph Stockman.png. I noticed that this file is being used under a claim of fair use. However, I think that the way it is being used fails the first non-free content criterion. This criterion states that files used under claims of fair use may have no free equivalent; in other words, if the file could be adequately covered by a freely-licensed file or by text alone, then it may not be used on Wikipedia. If you believe this file is not replaceable, please:

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This bot DID NOT nominate any of your contributions for deletion; please refer to the history of each individual page for details. Thanks, FastilyBot (talk) 10:00, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. There is not another photograph this individual in the public domain available for free use that I am aware of. He is of importance in the history of Scottish Medicine and having his photo displayed in a public forum is of historical interest. The original photographer and copyright holder is unknown. Markstrachan (talk) 11:08, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

File copyright problem with File:Alexander Murray Drennan.png

Thank you for uploading File:Alexander Murray Drennan.png. However, it is currently missing information on its copyright and licensing status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can verify that it has an acceptable license status and a verifiable source. Please add this information by editing the image description page. You may refer to the image use policy to learn what files you can or cannot upload on Wikipedia. The page on copyright tags may help you to find the correct tag to use for your file. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem.

Please also check any other files you may have uploaded to make sure they are correctly tagged. Here is a list of your uploads.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation.

Also:

• File:James Thomson.png
• File:Arthur Kennedy.png
• File:William Fordyce.png
• File:John Orr.png
• File:Thomas Wilson.png
• File:John MacPherson.png
• File:James Mason Brown.png
• File:John William Struthers.png
• File:Bobby Marquis.png
• File:Hamish Watson.png
• File:Alasdair MacGregor.png
• File:James Scott.png
• File:George Harry Melville Dunlop.png
• File:Iain MacLaren2.png
• File:William Alister Alexander.png
• File:William Haultain.png
• File:Alexander Miles.png
• File:George Lovell Gulland2.png
• File:John Cook surgeon.png
• File:Eric Samuel.png
• File:James Fraser surgeon.png
• File:Alexande Blackhall-Morison.png
• File:Sir Henry Wade.png
• File:James Hodsdon.png
• File:John Dixon Comrie.png
• File:George Douglas Mathewson.png
• File:David Percival Dalbreck Wilkie.png
• File:Douglas Guthrie historian.png
• File:James Syme paediatrician.png
• File:Diarmid Noel Paton.png
• File:Mike Matthews.png
• File:Clifford Kennedy.png
• File:James Robson physician.png
• File:Robert Kellar.png
• File:Francis Mitchell Caird.png
• File:Neil Macmichael.png
• File:George Romanes.png
• File:George Lyall Chiene.png
• File:Charles Forbes.png
• File:James Ross.png
• File:William MacLennan.png
• File:John Richmond.png
• File:Andrew Fergus Hewat.png
• File:Thomas Millar.png
• File:Ranald Murray-Lyon.png
• File:John Alastair Bruce.png
• File:William Douglas Denton Small.png
• File:David Wallace.png
• File:Glyn Lackie.png
• File:Francis Jardine.png
• File:Sir John Halliday Croom physician.png
• File:Bertie Wood.png
• File:John James Graham Brown.png
• File:Martin Lees.png
• File:Harry Moss Traquair.png
• File:Henry Littlejohn.png
• File:Andrew Doig.png
• File:David Middleton.png

This bot DID NOT nominate any of your contributions for deletion; please refer to the history of each individual page for details. Thanks, FastilyBot (talk) 10:00, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. There are not other photograph these individuals in the public domain available for free use that I am aware of. They are of importance in the history of Scottish Medicine and having their photos displayed in a public forum is of historical interest. The original photographers and copyright holders are unknown, except for William Fordyce where copyright is held by Wiley publishers. Markstrachan (talk) 11:09, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Disputed non-free use rationale for File:George Matthew Robertson.png

Thank you for uploading File:George Matthew Robertson.png. However, there is a concern that the rationale provided for using this file on Wikipedia may not meet the criteria required by Wikipedia:Non-free content. This can be corrected by going to the file description page and adding or clarifying the reason why the file qualifies under this policy. Adding and completing one of the templates available from Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your file is in compliance with Wikipedia policy. Please be aware that a non-free use rationale is not the same as an image copyright tag; descriptions for files used under the non-free content policy require both a copyright tag and a non-free use rationale.

If it is determined that the file does not qualify under the non-free content policy, it might be deleted by an administrator seven days after the file was tagged in accordance with section F7 of the criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions, please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you.

This bot DID NOT nominate any of your contributions for deletion; please refer to the history of each individual page for details. Thanks, FastilyBot (talk) 10:00, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. There is not another photograph this individual in the public domain available for free use that I am aware of. He is of importance in the history of Scottish Medicine and having his photo displayed in a public forum is of historical interest. The original photographer and copyright holder is unknown. Markstrachan (talk) 11:10, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

As a free content encyclopedia, the use of non-free content is by exception and only if the use meets with all of the non-free content criteria. In the case of images for lists, the provision of an image for each entry in a list does not meet with our non-free content policies. See WP:NFLIST. The use of a non-free image for visual identification is accepted in an article about the subject is deemed to meet WP:NFCC#8 as the entirety of the article is about the image subject. The use of a non-free image in a list for visual identification of a list entry does not meet WP:NFCC#8. If the subject is of significant historical importance, then creating an article about the subject and using the image in the article would meet with the non-free content policy. -- Whpq (talk) 14:41, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Ok, I give up! I have spent countless hours creating what I think is a valuable resource for historians of medicine. The photographs that I have reproduced come from an old photo album. Many of the photos are almost certainly unique. The individuals are in the main long-deceased. The photographers are unknown and will also in the main be long dead. The photos were taken for the personal use of the sitters who in turn donated them to the club. It is a shame that there is not a mechanism that allows them to be made free for people to see. If they are now to be deleted then so be it. I shall not publish any more. Markstrachan (talk) 16:00, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

You can create a gallery of images on an external site and link to it as an external link in the list article. I also note that specifically for Diarmid Noel Paton, the file you uploaded, File:Diarmid Noel Paton.png appears to be a crop of File:Diarmid Noël Paton. Photograph by T. & R. Annan & Sons Ltd. Wellcome V0026990.jpg which is freely licensed and hosted on Commons. -- Whpq (talk) 17:05, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Alasdair MacGregor.png

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Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 03:05, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Alexande Blackhall-Morison.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Alexander Miles.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Alexander Murray Drennan.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Andrew Doig.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Andrew Fergus Hewat.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Arthur Kennedy.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Bertie Wood.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Bobby Marquis.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Charles Forbes.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Clifford Kennedy.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:David Middleton.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:David Percival Dalbreck Wilkie.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:David Wallace.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Diarmid Noel Paton.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Douglas Guthrie historian.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Eric Samuel.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Francis Jardine.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Francis Mitchell Caird.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:George Douglas Mathewson.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:George Harry Melville Dunlop.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:George Lovell Gulland2.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:George Lyall Chiene.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:George Matthew Robertson.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:George Romanes.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Glyn Lackie.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Hamish Watson.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Harry Moss Traquair.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Henry Littlejohn.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Iain MacLaren2.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:James Fraser surgeon.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:James Hodsdon.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:James Mason Brown.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:James Robson physician.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:James Ross.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:James Scott.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:James Syme paediatrician.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:James Thomson.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:John Alastair Bruce.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:John Cook surgeon.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:John Dixon Comrie.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:John James Graham Brown.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:John MacPherson.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:John Orr.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:John Richmond.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:John William Struthers.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Martin Lees.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Mike Matthews.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Neil Macmichael.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Ranald Murray-Lyon.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Robert Kellar.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Sir Henry Wade.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Sir John Halliday Croom physician.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Thomas Millar.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Thomas Wilson.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:William Alister Alexander.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:William Douglas Denton Small.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:William Fordyce.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:William Haultain.png

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Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 04:42, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:William MacLennan.png

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Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 04:43, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Thomas Wood / William Wood

Hello Mark, I am Thomas Wood’s 3x great grand daughter. We know that Thomas was one of six children of William and Mary Wood and that he went to Jamaica and then Ceylon. I have found an old book with three pages about him. But we would love to know why he had to ‘leave’ Scotland and go to Jamaica. Do you know anything else about the family. Rachel rachelksavage@yahoo.co.uk 2A02:C7E:3A65:1E00:806:F2B2:2AD2:D63A (talk) 20:47, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

License tagging for File:Sigill of the Harveian Society of Edinburgh.jpg

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File:Sigill of the Harveian Society of Edinburgh.jpg

Hello. You indicated on the file description page that the author died more than a hundred years ago, but did not indicate the author himself. Please also indicate at least the approximate year the sigill was produced. And, in addition to the license for the subject of shooting a 3D object, it is necessary to indicate the license for the photograph itself, as, for example, was done here. — Ирука¹³ 01:08, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks very much. I took the photo and have assigned copyright under CC0.1.0 The manufacturer of the sigill is unknown but it has been in the possession of the society since the 1820's. I have added that information to the description. Markstrachan (talk) 06:40, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

CS1 error on List of Office Bearers of the Harveian Society of Edinburgh and Harveian Orations

Hello, I'm Qwerfjkl (bot). I have automatically detected that this edit performed by you, on the page List of Office Bearers of the Harveian Society of Edinburgh and Harveian Orations, may have introduced referencing errors. They are as follows:

• A "bare URL and missing title" error. References show this error when they do not have a title. Please edit the article to add the appropriate title parameter to the reference. (Fix | Ask for help)

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CS1 error on List of Office Bearers of the Harveian Society of Edinburgh and Harveian Orations

Hello, I'm Qwerfjkl (bot). I have automatically detected that this edit performed by you, on the page List of Office Bearers of the Harveian Society of Edinburgh and Harveian Orations, may have introduced referencing errors. They are as follows:

• A "bare URL and missing title" error. References show this error when they do not have a title. Please edit the article to add the appropriate title parameter to the reference. (Fix | Ask for help)

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File:Alexander Peddie physician.png

Who took this photo? — Ирука¹³ 08:03, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

I took the photo of the photo. The original photographer is unknown. Markstrachan (talk) 08:06, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Then how did you determine that he died more than 100 years ago? — Ирука¹³ 08:18, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

I’m basing it on probability. The picture is a professional portrait and so the photographer was likely middle to older age in the 1890’s. Given the life expectancy at that time it is not unreasonable to extrapolate that they died over 100 years ago. However, I don’t know that for certain. Markstrachan (talk) 08:40, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

For such cases, we have only one template - {{PD-old-assumed}}. In other cases, we must rely on information from already existing reliable sources.
You also can’t prove the fact that the photograph was published? — Ирука¹³ 09:15, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

The photograph subject was a doctor in Edinburgh and generally photos like these were only published in an obituary! Peddie’s obituary in the British Medical Journal from 1907 (which can be accessed via Google) does have a photo of him, but it is a completely different one to this. Therefore I am as certain as I can be that it was not published elsewhere. The photo was a personal gift from Peddie to the Aesculapian Club in 1895 and is contained in the Club’s photo album. If I changed the template to ‘old-assumed’ would that be acceptable? Markstrachan (talk) 09:30, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Everything published before 1928 is considered public domain in the US. If you do not know the year of death of the author or the date of publication, please re-register the remaining photographs you have uploaded as non-free. — Ирука¹³ 10:09, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks very much. Markstrachan (talk) 10:33, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

The same link (http://archives.rcpe.ac.uk/calmView/Overview.aspx) that you leave for the photos you uploaded... in your opinion, what should it mean? — Ирука¹³ 10:09, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

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Hello

I noticed you have been editing some health-related articles, and I wanted to say that a bunch of us hang out at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine. You're welcome to join us if that's an area of editing that interests you. It's a good place to ask questions about finding good sources for medical content or writing style. Feel free to put the group's page on your watchlist, or stop by to say hello some time. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:27, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

John Ivor Murray

Hi, I saw that you added an interesting claim to Murray's page, and to several others, but without a citation to record how you found this out. Obviously we'd like to keep the information, but all the claims are at risk of immediate deletion per WP:V without sources. It'd be appreciated if you could cite the additions. All the best, Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:13, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

No problem. I have a citation I can add. Markstrachan (talk) 08:47, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Looking forward to it, thanks! Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:56, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Joseph Lister

Hi @Markstrachan: I saw you updated the Joseph Lister article. I wanted to thank you. You dont perchance have the month for when he joined the Harveian Society of Edinburgh do you? I did quite a comprehensive search and can't find it anywhere. The reason I'm asking is I would like to slot it into the right place. I plan to split the article into 5 parts as it will likely big at 400-500k or bigger when finished, so one article with society, awards, memberships and honours and so on and it will probably go in there, but if get a month I can maybe keep in the narrative in the 1856 year. The search turned up the Harveian Society of London and is mentioned everywhere, I think he became president but Edinburgh seems to be lacking unfortunately. Looking at the Lister article there doesn't much on 1856 at all, its a weird gap. I saw your Aesculapian Club and List of Office Bearers of the Harveian Society of Edinburgh and Harveian Orations and List of former Aesculapian Club members. Really well built and structured articles although I notice your putting Dr <something> and Prof.<something> Per the WP:MOS is usually defined by name as a link. They are great articles. I notice on Harveian Society it has the the founding document. I wonder if there is any kind of member ship document. I wouldn't mind getting both societies membership documents if they exist of Lister. It would be ideal if we get the lot on Wikipedia for each of the folk in the lists. Hope that constructive criticism helps and for a second time because they are worth it, great articles. scope_creep^Talk 15:57, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Scope creep. Thanks for your kind and helpful comments. Yes, the Harveian Society of London and the Harveian Society of Edinburgh are different! The Edinburgh one is nearly 50 years older. I have constructed a main page on the Harveian Society of Edinburgh as well as the others you have listed. Lister would have officially joined the Edinburgh society in May 1856 (although the decision to offer membership would have likely been made at the annual business meeting in March of that year. In the history of the Society by Watson Wemyss (cited in the Wikipedia page) there is a list of all members up to 1933 and in 1856, 'Mr Joseph Lister' is listed. The primary source of Watson Wemyss will have been the minute books of the Society, which are held in the library of the Royal College of Physicians of Edinburgh. Regarding the Aesculapian Club, Lister joined this on 2nd March 1872. The Aesculapian Club has/had a much smaller membership and membership was/is awarded usually later in an individual's carer. The details of Lister's membership are listed in the history of the Club written by WJ Stuart and again his primary source were the minute books held in the RCPE library. If you are ever in Edinburgh I would be very happy to show you the primary sources! Markstrachan (talk) 22:24, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Scope creep, I should also have said that the photo of Lister in the Aesculapian Club article List of former Aesculapian Club members is the one in the Club photograph album, i.e. it must have been a photo in his possession that he gave to the Club! Markstrachan (talk) 22:32, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Morning @Markstrachan: That is excellent. I live in Scotland, so wouldn't mind popping in at some point to have a look, perhaps later in the year, or the summer. I've contacted Glasgow University to look at their archives and the Royal College of Surgeons in Glasgow to look at their Lister room, archives and library and potentially will visit them this year some time and Edinburgh is definently on the itinerary. I spoke to Edinburgh University last year to see their archive and they were also keen. It would great to see it. scope_creep^Talk 09:00, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

Great, just let me know! Markstrachan (talk) 09:15, 23 January 2024 (UTC)