User talk:Physiker121

please add a sentence[edit]

I would add the following sentence at the end of the paragraph:

Winterberg's general relativistic equations which made the necessary corrections to signals of atomic clocks in satellites, are today used by the Global Positioning System to obtain the precise accurately required in GPS. 173.169.90.98 (talk) 02:50, 26 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I wish I could but the administrators won't let me. See discussion for details. They are asking for a scholarly source connecting Winterberg's name with GPS.Physiker121 (talk) 02:58, 26 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes but if phrased properly it is just a statement of fact. We simply cannot say that Winterberg intended for that application but it today is indeed used in that way. It could be phrased like this:

"The general relativistically corrected equations to properly treat signals from atomic clocks in satellites, first published in 1956 by Friedwardt Winterberg, are today used by the Global Positioning System to obtain the necessary satellite precision for GPS." 173.169.90.98 (talk) 03:16, 26 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't disagree with what you are saying, it's just that this administrator, Will Beback, has made the decision I can't include the term GPS at all without a scholarly source connecting Winterberg's name with GPS. If you can his mind, I'll do it. If I change it after he has told me not to I risk being blocked. Physiker121 (talk) 03:27, 26 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe if you present my above argument to him he will agree. 173.169.90.98 (talk) 03:34, 26 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think I already did and right after I said that he took the GPS info out of the article. Physiker121 (talk) 03:38, 26 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If you phrase it like this, I don't see how they could possibly disagree:

" Dr.Winterberg's calculation made general relativistic corrections to atomic clocks in orbit. Today, these relativistic corrections are used to provide the precise accuracy required for the GPS satellite system."

It sounds reasonable but they are being hard line about everything right now. If you become an established member (I think you need 10 edits, a verifiable e-mail, and to be a member for a short amount of time) you can make any edit there you want or make any argument you want. That would help with the consensus aspect of it. Right now it's me against 3 others. The only thing I can do to sway that is to find a credible source linking GPS with Winterberg. Do you know of one?Physiker121 (talk) 02:50, 27 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I know of no explicit source but everyone knows that GPS requires general relativistic corrections to clocks in orbit, and no one published the corrections before Winterberg. So very simple to state these facts. If this were clearly stated on the discussion page it would at least embarass them. Directly related subjects and facts are commonly inserted into Wikipedia articles, they should not be objecting. 173.169.90.98 (talk) 10:52, 27 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you. But I don't think this is an argument I can win when 3 others are against it, and two of those are administrators. I like to pick my fights well and unless there is a consensus for it or more evidence I think it is a loser for now. If you want to become an established member and present that argument I will support it.Physiker121 (talk) 14:56, 27 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think Singer only looked at gravitational redshift, while Winterberg considered both the gravitational redshift and "orbital" time dilation contributions to the overall correction, which is what is needed for GPS. Two effects here, Winterberg considered both. Singer did not have both. 173.169.90.98 (talk) 19:48, 27 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

reference[edit]

I think it was 1956, Winterberg's article on atomic clocks in satellites. Astronautica Acta II, 25 (1956). Please add this footnote to the article. 173.169.90.98 (talk) 02:26, 26 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome[edit]

Hello Physiker121 and welcome to Wikipedia! I am Ukexpat and I would like to thank you for your contributions.

Getting Started First steps • FAQ Wikipedia Tutorial • The five pillars of Wikipedia How to: edit a page • upload an image Getting help Community Portal • Help desk • Village Pump Where to ask questions or make comments • Request administrator attention Wikipedia: The Missing Manual Place {{helpme}} on your talk page and a small message explaining the problem The Commmunity Build consensus • Resolving disputes Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • No legal threats Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists		Policies and Guidelines Neutral point of view • Reliable sources Verifiability • Citing sources • No original research What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons Manual of Style • Three-revert rule • Sock puppetry Copyrights • Fair use • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability Things to do Be bold in editing • Help develop an article Pages needing attention • Peer review Join a WikiProject • Translating articles Cleaning up: General • Spam • Vandalism User pages • Talk pages Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

Click here to reply to this message.

ukexpat (talk) 16:05, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]