User talk:Sitush/Archive 11
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Message added 20:52, 29 December 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
TheOriginalSoni (talk) 20:52, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
Sock?
Following up on the IP that called you and AnomieBOT and Kansas Bear meatpuppets, found this edit. The use of this image as a source is very familiar but I'm not sure who was misusing it. Any suggestions? 07:59, 30 December 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dougweller (talk • contribs)
- I wasn't aware that I had been accused of socking again and the modus operandi is unfamiliar to me. I've seen it used perhaps once or twice in my time here but as really historic edits, so rather that delving to discover who had done it I simply deleted as inappropriate.
Let them accuse away: I really don't care at the moment. I've been getting far more damaging accusations and misrepresentations from someone who really should know better. - Sitush (talk) 15:30, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
About Bhagat Singh
Sir, I don't think word 'culprit' should be used in reference to Bhagat Singh. It seems derogatory and so we can rather use mild word, such as 'accused' ? Ashishbirajdar (talk) 13:20, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
- He was found guilty. I realise that many today consider him to be a martyr but even in the modern day, blowing up trains etc is not usually acceptable behaviour. My guess is that the counter would be that "this was a war of sorts, so blowing up trains is ok" but I'm not convinced that it alters the fact that he was found guilty of doing so. This is the "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" conundrum. You might want to raise it at Talk:Bhagat Singh in order to get a wider variety of opinion. - Sitush (talk) 15:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
Castes
I know bugger all about them but as you do a great deal of work on them and looking at that talk page discussion you linked to on ANI I found this website[1] perhaps it will be of use to you. Darkness Shines (talk) 02:44, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks, but umpteen threads at RSN have determined the Joshua Project to be unreliable, for various reasons. We are sleepwalking into a big problem here and someone who thinks they're good at turning a hardcopy list into a Wikipedia list is missing numerous relevant points while playing a very good game of pretending to acknowledge them. This is not the only sphere in which they've done this and their ability to insult without seeming to do so appears to know no bounds. I'll take him on and I know that I'll lose because the policy wonks will be unable to see beyond their beloved rules + he is very, very good with words even if less good with action. I'm past caring when umpteen admins etc are aware that there is an issue but nothing can apparently be done: block me, and let his new Wikipedia friends from India take pleasure in seeing that happen. Frustrated although I am, at least I will have fallen on my sword with honour. - Sitush (talk) 02:56, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
- Sitush, I have topic banned doncram for a year; that said, consider yourself minnowed: when you feel you're getting frustrated, that's a good moment to log off and something else for a bit. No blocks needed at this time, however. Salvio Let's talk about it! 15:24, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
- I did nothing this morning for precisely that reason (it is 1530 here now). I plan to do nothing but answer anything here for the remainder of the day, and probably nothing India-related tomorrow. I recognise that this situation regarding D's wikilawyering/mispresentation etc has gotten to me. - Sitush (talk) 15:40, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
- Ho-hum, I am now misrepresented again in this edit. The pluralising may be claimed as a typo but this sort of verbal manipulation/planting of seeds is happening a lot and they cannot all be typos etc, surely. Similarly, with the word "truthfully", which seems to imply that perhaps I am not always truthful here and the use of which I've previously raised with doncram in another thread here recently. If this is going to ArbCom then I guess I'll need to compile a list of these things. Right now, I guess I'm best off trying to stay out of it, so I'm not responding at ANI (where the thread was in any case closed prior to doncram's comment) and from now I'll stick to a self-imposed interaction ban for the foreseeable. - Sitush (talk) 06:25, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
- I did nothing this morning for precisely that reason (it is 1530 here now). I plan to do nothing but answer anything here for the remainder of the day, and probably nothing India-related tomorrow. I recognise that this situation regarding D's wikilawyering/mispresentation etc has gotten to me. - Sitush (talk) 15:40, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
- Sitush, I have topic banned doncram for a year; that said, consider yourself minnowed: when you feel you're getting frustrated, that's a good moment to log off and something else for a bit. No blocks needed at this time, however. Salvio Let's talk about it! 15:24, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
Opinion
Sitush, this is outside your normal purvey, but would you mind sharing your 2 cents regarding the small discussion at Talk:Management of baldness when you have a moment? If you are too busy, I understand, but you have shown insight in similar matters in the past, and I wanted to make sure I was following etiquette properly. Ramwithaxe 05:46, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
- Which discussion, specifically? There are loads of them. - Sitush (talk) 05:50, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
Happy New Year
File:Happy New Year 2013.jpg | Have an enjoyable New Year! | |
Hello Sitush: Thanks for all of your contributions to Wikipedia, and have a happy and enjoyable New Year! Cheers, Tito Dutta (talk) 19:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
|
Thanks very much, Tito. The same to you: peace,health and happiness. - Sitush (talk) 19:07, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
Happy New Year Sitush and Tito. IP is being a bit irritating, perhaps its time he was reported. Its a Manchester IP address, maybe somebody you or Malleus knows.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 17:34, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
Anon Ip adding images of idols to the Iyengar pg and other related wiki pages
"User 111.91.95.40" has been adding images of "idols" to the Iyengar wiki pg and other vaishnavism related pages. However, i'm not sure about their relevance to the correponding sections under which they are put up. Can you check if they are relevant? Thank You. Hari7478 (talk) 22:23, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
- I've seen it going on and indeed did revert one such addition. However, I am not particularly good when it comes to articles that specifically relate to Hinduisn as a religion. I think that you might be better asking Redtigerxyz. Sorry that I cannot be more helpful: my suspicion is that some of these additions are ok and others are more dubious. - Sitush (talk)
Hi! Sitush
Ok. Thanks sir for ur kind advice.I realy respect you. Sir kindly tel me how can i write or add something to improve the Article Gheba.And why are you saying that the references i hav quoted are poor.All caste related articles have the same references. So what about all these caste related articles. ?? And sir why You deleted my contributions in Gheba Article.? Thanks (Gsksari (talk) 16:19, 1 January 2013 (UTC))
- During the British Raj period there were many amateur and amateurish publications which are nowadays rarely if ever cited by academics because their value is so low. Examples of such writers include James Tod, H. A. Rose, H. H. Risley, and J. M. Wikeley. Indeed, with the possible exception of James Hastings, it is difficult to find any Raj period source that has much merit except as a statement of the writer's own opinion, and those opinions are generally of little use because there were often so misinformed.
There are thousands of articles concerning Indian castes on Wikipedia and it is common to find that when an attempt at cleaning them up begins, well, people are determined to challenge removals of unreliable sources etc, which slows down the process and leads to repeated explanations similar to this one. If you can find modern sources that discuss the Gheba then that would be great. - Sitush (talk) 21:45, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
Pls Consider it :Sir Sitush
Ok. But one thing i would like to tell you and that is absolutley 100%right. is as May be The Gheba tribes origions is the same as you have writen in the article. But the Ghebas families as mentioned in these books which you have sourced,are all Claiming Mughals ,like the best known Sardar of Kot Fateh khan,Lund,Malal, Dhurnal, Majhia, Dhari Rai Ditta, And shah Rai saadulah,
so I think no one can never ever deny this fact that These Gheba Sardars are Mughals.And one thing more i would like to clear you that, the british raj Writers like JM wikeley wrote obviously right about Ghebas. He wrote acording to the true practicle fact history. Now at that time before 1900, and till now all the Ghebas are Claiming Mughal ancestory/ geenology.And one question in my mind that why all the Gheba families claiming Mughal and why no one claim Rajput??? (If there Origin is Rajput). Actually the true history books are those which are based on practicle facts as the british writers are practicaly visited the Places, areas,countries and met with people and seen their culture. And then they write these books in british raj.So i cannot say that these writers are poorly written books.Sir please ,please Consider it and Add it In Gheba Article .The 'Gheba' are a tribe from the Punjab, mostly located in the Fateh Jang Tehsil of Attock District of Pakistan. As per their Origion they are generally classified as Rajput or Jatt[1].
But many of them claim that they are Barlas Mughals in Census Report 1901Cite error: A <ref>
tag is missing the closing </ref>
(see the help page).. They were at one time spread out over a broader area, in both Punjab and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa areas of what is now Pakistan but over time, their main population came to live in Attock and Rawalpindi districts of northern Punjab. They were most probably descended from one Raja Dayanand, a Chauhan Rajput, through Rai Shankar, whose off spring 'Rai Gheba' converted to Islam and was given the title of 'Gheba Khan' and Married to Foster Sister of Mughal Emporer Akbar[2]. They have been Muslims since then and sizable landowners in the districts they live in[3].
This view is often believed by some of the more prominent Gheba families, that they are not really Rajputs or Jatts but are Barlas Mughals[4]
Whatever their origins, the Ghebas continue to be among the biggest landowners of northern Punjab, in present-day Pakistan. Their biggest and most important village in Attock area is Kot Fateh Khan, which is part of the Jagir estate of the Sardar of Kot Other major villages owned by Ghebas include Malal, Lund, Dhurnal, Shah Rai Saidullah and Dhari Rai Ditta,etc. i cannot write well as other wikipedia editors.Therefor i have a request to You Sir kindly add it in Gheba Article, not the same as i wrote in ur talk page but In Your Own Words ,because i am not as fluent/skilled in English as you.
Hoping for Your kind consideration .
Thanks Regards
- ^ Gazetteer of the Rawalpindi District, 1893-1894, pp.107-108
- ^ CH Hall and RT Burney, The Earliest History and Pedigrees of the Gheba and Jodhra Chiefs of Attock Monograph, Government of India Press, Calcutta, 1867
- ^ Hall and Burney
- ^ "Gazetteer of the Attock District, 1930, Part 1" (Punjab district gazetteers) Author Punjab (Pakistan) Edition 2, reprint Publisher Sang-e-Meel Publications, 1932. Original from the University of Michigan Digitized Aug 29, 2008 Length 326 pages Subjects Histoy
(Gsksari (talk) 14:01, 2 January 2013 (UTC))
- It may well be 100% true but, alas, that is not how Wikipedia works. The sources that you cite above are not reliable for the reasons that I have already given. Wikipedia relies on verifiability using reliable sources and sometimes this does unfortunately impact on "truth". - Sitush (talk) 14:08, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
- When did you get your peerage sit? Darkness Shines (talk) 16:55, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
- Perhaps I should add "Pray, all bow before the Lord of BS" to my sig. ;) - Sitush (talk) 16:58, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
- When did you get your peerage sit? Darkness Shines (talk) 16:55, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
Article MINHAS
Hi Sitush I am trying to reinstate the old page of the Article Minhas, because It is absolutely true and correct as best of my knowledge. I my self is a Minhas by cast, and i know our ancestor history. http://maps.thefullwiki.org/Minhas, please have a look at this page and you will find the details as you required. Forget about my grammar mistake, but I really do not understand that why would you delete a page when 100s of other are saying and updating it the way it should be. Please can you get back to me on this..
Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Freeonly2day (talk • contribs) 01:04, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
- Statements in Wikipedia articles must be capable of verification by reference to reliable sources. Writing what you know to be true is not usually acceptable, other than for such basic things as "water as a liquid is wet". We are not allowed to use our personal knowledge and we also need to take care when editing things where we might have a conflict of interest.
Wikipedia has a very open policy with regard to copyright: pretty much anything you find here can be used by anyone else for any purpose, and one outcome of that is we find lots of websites, books etc that use information which was first written here. The source that you link to above is the full wiki. That is not reliable because it simply copies stuff from versions of our articles and presents it in a different way. Our articles are themselves not reliable sources and using one to support another is in any event circular referencing.
You'll need to find decent quality sources to improve the Minhas article. I am sure that there are some out there somewhere but you'll note from my past comments on the article talk page that I've been struggling to find them. That's life, sometimes, and I hope that you can do better than me. I will be looking again, in particular because I have just gained access to JSTOR and there may be stuff there that can be used, bu this does not prevent you from expanding the article provided that you comply with our policies and guidelines. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 07:47, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
Government form
Sorry was a bit busy. Will not post any more forms from now.
Sharmapriya5590 (talk) 12:26, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
- I think there is consensus on Talk:Form 2E that the thing should be merged to either Income tax in India or Indian Revenue Service. However, it is not the clearest consensus I've ever seen and perhaps it needs some more input. - Sitush (talk) 12:32, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
Course abbreviations at B.J. Medical College, Ahmedabad
I am copy editing the above article and I was wondering if you knew what the abbreviations for the courses stood for, or could point me in the direction of someone who knows. Much appreciated. --Skamecrazy123 (talk) 12:46, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
- M.Ch., M.B.B.S. etc - I think you'll find that most of them have articles. - Sitush (talk) 12:54, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks! --Skamecrazy123 (talk) 12:56, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
You wonder why the date of death was removed. Obviously some people don't think he died in 1945 but more relevantly here it seems to use a wikipedia article as a source. As we cannot use wikipedia as a source for itself you may wish to find a better one to back up this information. Britmax (talk) 16:32, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
Nair
Hi! Thanks for adding author credit so quickly, and for being so conscientious about citations and accuracy in this article. It's actually not clear where the quotation comes from without a citation. Every quotation needs a citation. Of the two Gough references cited in the article, is it really a good convention to ask readers to assume that a quotation comes from somewhere in a particular one? And why exclude this reference when others have specific page numbers?
Is the source is a page from Matrilineal Kinship? If so, that should be easy to add with a shortened footnote. What makes the Gough attributions even less clear is that the links refer to a work in the Bibliography section rather than in the References section (cf. General references). Since [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Layout |References is the place for general references]], the repurposing (if that's what it is) of a Bibliography section here seems unnecessarily ambiguous. Ringbang (talk) 17:45, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
- Hi, the quotation has a citation, right at the end of the following sentence. Since the following sentence expands on the quotation and is also supported by the same Gough source (right down to the page number), there really doesn't seem to be an issue here. WP:MOSQUOTE covers this. Furthermore, the citation links directly the the 1961 Gough work in the bibliography, which is basically the method used for Harvnb etc. This feels a bit like being taught how to suck eggs but you are obviously unaware of my content work or that of the other major contributors.
Converting the entire article to {{sfn}} or {{r}} etc is neither necessary nor easy to do even if there is consensus for such a change. The only style change that might be beneficial is to turn the bibliography section into a subsection of References as, indeed, it was at one point. If you feel strongly about the cite/quote and sfn issues then I suggest you raise them on the article talk page. The article has been remarkably stable for a long period now, following years of puffery and fighting, and I'm not myself inclined to overhaul it on some massive scale just for some underlying technical purpose. - Sitush (talk) 22:51, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
- I've now "demoted" the Bibliography back to being a subsection, as it once was. No idea when or why that changed. - Sitush (talk) 07:58, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
Virbhadra Singh
Why are you deleting article, and photos on Virbhadra Singh. All the sources and ref are given. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snjsharma (talk • contribs) 06:33, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
- Actually, the sources etc are fake. It is all explained in the article history. As an example, the statement that I removed here is not supported by the cited source, which was this. Either you, Vikramadityabushahr or both have been adding loads of fake stuff in recent days. After trawling through a fair bit of it I gave up. Even if this were not a biography of a living person, such antics would be unacceptable. - Sitush (talk) 06:43, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
- Please read WP:V. Please also explain what it is that I have deleted that came from reliable sources. I am happy to reinstate anything that might have been caught up in the restoration of an earlier version of the article but you must appreciate, surely, that I had made an effort to check what had been going on and found not a single valid edit among those that I checked. WP:AGF is not a suicide pact. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 07:04, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
- No, of course I am not happy. However, it seems from your talk page and from various other contributions that I've had to clean up that perhaps you would benefit from a re-reading of our core policies. I'm happy to help you understand this sort of thing but, really, we cannot accept the sort of stuff that you have been doing: the policies are there for a reason and are particularly important when the subjects are living people. - Sitush (talk) 07:32, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
Spurious claims of Arabic origins
Dear sir I would please like to refer you to spurious claims of the above order on the Dhund Abbasi page, I have also left my note there on the talk page (end) and I strongly challenge this spurious history. Your help is needed thanks 39.54.235.50 (talk) 07:34, 5 January 2013 (UTC)Mansur Abbasi
- That was hopeless. I've stubbed the thing for now and will try to do some research to rebuild it. - Sitush (talk) 07:45, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
- Thank you sir. I appreciate this. 39.54.20.190 (talk) 05:40, 6 January 2013 (UTC)Mansur Abbasi
Cheers!
This is very tasty. Drmies (talk) 22:34, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
- Gosh, that's a strong one. No wonder it made the Atlantic crossing without any, er, hiccups. I notice that you've been fiddling with the (very poor) J.W. Lees Brewery. While this edit did indeed remove promotional blurb, it was not original research: I've seen exactly those phrases used by JWL themselves on the various products that were listed, although I notice that they've revamped their website yet again. Copyvio, then!
Should you ever fancy trying another in that style then please leave Thomas Hardy's Ale well alone: 11.7 per cent ABV makes it a world-record strength beer, now brewed by several different small outfits since the demise of Eldridge Pope (see Old Ale). If Hardy had imbibed that stuff, Tess etc would never have seen the light of day. I've still got an Eldridge Pope bottle stood on a shelf somewhere. I needed some Thomas Hardy's Paracetamol after drinking the other three in a single session. - Sitush (talk) 05:15, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
Relinked categories
ok I have stopped, Please tell me how we can create and change its colorLegalaidclinicssdlc (talk) 07:56, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
- You should not be contributing at all because you are a sockpuppet of Austereraj and because your username does not comply with our policies either. I have reported the latter problem and you will shortly find yourself unable to edit from that account. I strongly suggest that you do not set up yet another account, as has been your past habit. Go to User talk:Austereraj, log in as that user and post an unblock request that addresses the issue of sockpuppetry please. - Sitush (talk) 08:01, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
Please I will not violate the rules of wikipedia and club my accounts and help me in getting rid of called as sockpuppet, I shall be thankful to you forever, Happy New Year, I only created because you block the and then and I want to become good wikipedian like you. Legalaidclinicssdlc (talk) 08:09, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
- The right way to do it is as I described above, using the Austereraj account. You have recently contributed as Rajkumartundak, Rajwikipedian and now as Legalaidclinicssdlc. Are there any other accounts that you have used since your last block? - Sitush (talk) 08:15, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
Talkback message from Tito Dutta
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Message added 17:01, 8 January 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
Tito Dutta (talk) 17:01, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
- I've looked but can find no talkback relating to me? - Sitush (talk) 17:48, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
- And I could not relate me.
They promised they'd delete their sock accounts, but I didn't tell them anything about that, so telling me about those accounts is absurd. You have filed an SPI (see Untitled section) --Tito Dutta (talk) 17:58, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
- Ah, that is weird. I'd already explained what they needed to do on their talk page and in the section above this, here. The SPI is a reference, ie: they've already been blocked ... again. I presume that they saw your name somewhere on this page & clicked through to make an appeal. This guy claims to be a law PhD, practising solicitor and teacher from Rewari: I hope he is better at understanding and applying the law of India than he is at understanding and applying the "law" of Wikipedia :( Sitush (talk) 18:04, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
- And I could not relate me.
Village pump discussion on caste
Hi! I have raised one question in the discussion. Its not in the flow and i don't think anyone present there pro-exclusion other than you would understand the context of Mumbai and Bihar. Hence leaving a note here. Simply Ctrl+F "Bihar" and you will see my comment. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 09:30, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
- I think we have to be careful not to get too deep with the specifics, if only because they will indeed go over the heads of many people who contribute there. This is a generalised discussion about a possible policy change and it is going to be messy. (Already is!). FWIW, I am not in agreement with the idea that caste should never be mentioned. I have no problem with it being mentioned for dead people, if appropriately verifiable, and I have no problem with it being mentioned for living people if they self-identify. In the ideal world, sure, I'd prefer that it was only mentioned if actually relevant to their notability etc but I acknowledge that there is a contradiction between adopting such a position and yet allowing mentions of birthplaces etc - if one is ok then so is the other, and we're never going to change the consensus regarding birthplace etc. I am strongly opposed to those people who are basically arguing that caste is some horrible thing and we should not be perpetuating it here - that is a ridiculous western POV that should have no place in this encyclopedia. - Sitush (talk) 09:47, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
- I don't think all you Westerners share that notion of not going deep and turning themselves incomprehensible to us. Or else why would there be discussion on some league of voters or whatever. Anyways.... would you answer the question there or here? §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 10:19, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
- It took me a while to work out why the League of Women Voters was mentioned, either - I'd never heard of them before. I think the point was related to self-identification, ie: just because someone is a member of a caste association/sabha or caste political party may not mean that they are a member of the caste. Presumably, men can be members of the LoWV.
I've not looked at the Bihar bit yet but will do. - Sitush (talk) 10:24, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
- Ah, read it now and it seems that I've already addressed it here. It has also been addressed by someone else recently - either at WP:VPP or WT:INB - in much the same vein as I've said. - Sitush (talk) 11:17, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
- Lost you. What?! §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 11:24, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
- In my opening comment here I say In the ideal world, sure, I'd prefer that it was only mentioned if actually relevant to their notability etc but I acknowledge that there is a contradiction between adopting such a position and yet allowing mentions of birthplaces etc - if one is ok then so is the other, and we're never going to change the consensus regarding birthplace etc.. That covers the Bihar/birthplace thing you mentioned at VPP, doesn't it? Am I misunderstanding something? - Sitush (talk) 11:27, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
- Oh okay! So should we not delete such categories, not because of irrelevance but because of "violation of privacy", "might lead to insults", etc.? §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 11:41, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
- Categorisation already falls under WP:BLPCAT as far as I am concerned but, in any event, we do not categorise people by caste and there have been dozens of discussions about this in various nominations at WP:CFD - the consensus is well-established for that.
What is more problematic is whether we mention caste at all, either in individual articles or via the "List of X caste" things. Those at the more extreme end of the "anti" tendency argue that it is a complete irrelevance; those who are slightly less extreme realise that there will be exceptions where caste is directly relevant (eg: Ambedkar). Still more liberal are people like me who can live with it if the statement is reliably sourced (for BLPs, self-identified). As we swing further over, we are hitting the other extreme, as expressed by Sreejiraj etc, which is almost verging on the "common knowledge will suffice" argument.
WP:BLP is at the core of AndyTheGrump's point and, yes, privacy is a part of that. Whether it leads to insults or not is of no significance to any of the arguments that I have seen but whether it is right to label someone as being X or Y is. The issue of whether it is an accident of birth versus the right of a living person to identify etc is likely to be the area of most contention because both of those have some validity. In a pure academic sense, caste is a social construct but people tend not to understand this and, among those that do, some will argue the "so what?" point, ie: social construct or not, the thing exists in a pragmatic sense.
You'll gather that while I do have a viewpoint here, it is something that I've spent time thinking about rather than just rushing in there. I'm open to be persuaded also but it will have to be policy-based persuasion, not a personal interpretation of some primary sources from a court case etc. (Real life lawyers spend a lot of time and earn a lot of money coming up with umpteen different ways to interpret legal rulings, so trying to do that job here is rather pointless: we already know that they never agree!). - Sitush (talk) 12:05, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
- I agree on the point that "Category:X caste" should not include any biographic articles. Exceptions should be very specific cases like Ambedkar. I would also agree on not having a "List of X caste", independent or within the caste article. If there are any people who are connected with the caste, write their names in prose also mentioning the connection. I would also agree on not mentioning the caste just based on common knowledge, like any Kulkarni is Brahmin. I would also agree that mentioning should only be done when backed by a reliable source. What i object is self-identification.
There is a flaw in your theory that only living people's biographies should have self-identification. I know you wish that it should be applied for all biographies. But that is not practically possible as dead would not now rise to identify themselves under a particular caste. I also know that you are aware of this flaw. Secondly, what about such cases where the subject has not, to our knowledge, self identified with a certain caste but is widely considered to be a member of it? News reports and other articles might clearly consider a certain person as a member of a specific caste. If the subject was against such identification, isn't it safe to assume that the subject sort-of doesn't object it? Isnt this kind of general public identification of any relevance? §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 17:42, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
- There is no flaw and I have never accepted what you suggest is such a thing. When someone has died then we can use reliable sources without infringing on their privacy etc. Put crudely, we cannot insult the dead etc. While they are living, many cannot afford to sue every newspaper that makes a report etc, even if they wanted to do so. - Sitush (talk) 17:47, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
- Doesn't make sense. So we will be using the same references, to state the caste once the subject is dead, that existed while they were alive. (I must have assumed you are aware of this flaw.) §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 18:14, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
- Possibly, depending on how good the source is. They have no right to privacy/cannot be hurt etc when dead. - Sitush (talk) 18:17, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
- How private is caste anyways? We have been filling that in our admission forms from schools. Government offices have that data. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 05:06, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- Have you been filling admission forms to caste sabhas (sorry)? Last time I checked schools did not ask for your caste/category and colleges/government jobs asked you to choose from one of the following categories: Gen/(NC)OBC/SC/ST/PH/Army. None of those institutions ever intentionally made the category public, except for more affirmative action such as scholarships. I would have been able to comment on the census too if I had actually been counted. I hope they at least infer my existence from my relatives. Correct Knowledge«৳alk» 07:56, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- No! I am talking about normal schools and colleges. We did tick one of those boxes and then "specified" what exactly it was. (Also questioned a few of my friends now who answered yes. Some of them clearly remember it as they would always be confused in spelling these Indic words.) I don't know whats the status now. (Haven't filled any forms recently. I suppose you are younger than me.)
In either case, whether you specified on the form or not, all non-GEN have to attach a certificate for sure, which in turn mentions the caste. Have the modern institutes stopped doing that too? §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 09:22, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- No! I am talking about normal schools and colleges. We did tick one of those boxes and then "specified" what exactly it was. (Also questioned a few of my friends now who answered yes. Some of them clearly remember it as they would always be confused in spelling these Indic words.) I don't know whats the status now. (Haven't filled any forms recently. I suppose you are younger than me.)
- Have you been filling admission forms to caste sabhas (sorry)? Last time I checked schools did not ask for your caste/category and colleges/government jobs asked you to choose from one of the following categories: Gen/(NC)OBC/SC/ST/PH/Army. None of those institutions ever intentionally made the category public, except for more affirmative action such as scholarships. I would have been able to comment on the census too if I had actually been counted. I hope they at least infer my existence from my relatives. Correct Knowledge«৳alk» 07:56, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- How private is caste anyways? We have been filling that in our admission forms from schools. Government offices have that data. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 05:06, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- Possibly, depending on how good the source is. They have no right to privacy/cannot be hurt etc when dead. - Sitush (talk) 18:17, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
- Doesn't make sense. So we will be using the same references, to state the caste once the subject is dead, that existed while they were alive. (I must have assumed you are aware of this flaw.) §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 18:14, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
- There is no flaw and I have never accepted what you suggest is such a thing. When someone has died then we can use reliable sources without infringing on their privacy etc. Put crudely, we cannot insult the dead etc. While they are living, many cannot afford to sue every newspaper that makes a report etc, even if they wanted to do so. - Sitush (talk) 17:47, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
- I agree on the point that "Category:X caste" should not include any biographic articles. Exceptions should be very specific cases like Ambedkar. I would also agree on not having a "List of X caste", independent or within the caste article. If there are any people who are connected with the caste, write their names in prose also mentioning the connection. I would also agree on not mentioning the caste just based on common knowledge, like any Kulkarni is Brahmin. I would also agree that mentioning should only be done when backed by a reliable source. What i object is self-identification.
- Categorisation already falls under WP:BLPCAT as far as I am concerned but, in any event, we do not categorise people by caste and there have been dozens of discussions about this in various nominations at WP:CFD - the consensus is well-established for that.
- Oh okay! So should we not delete such categories, not because of irrelevance but because of "violation of privacy", "might lead to insults", etc.? §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 11:41, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
- In my opening comment here I say In the ideal world, sure, I'd prefer that it was only mentioned if actually relevant to their notability etc but I acknowledge that there is a contradiction between adopting such a position and yet allowing mentions of birthplaces etc - if one is ok then so is the other, and we're never going to change the consensus regarding birthplace etc.. That covers the Bihar/birthplace thing you mentioned at VPP, doesn't it? Am I misunderstanding something? - Sitush (talk) 11:27, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
- Lost you. What?! §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 11:24, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
- Ah, read it now and it seems that I've already addressed it here. It has also been addressed by someone else recently - either at WP:VPP or WT:INB - in much the same vein as I've said. - Sitush (talk) 11:17, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
- It took me a while to work out why the League of Women Voters was mentioned, either - I'd never heard of them before. I think the point was related to self-identification, ie: just because someone is a member of a caste association/sabha or caste political party may not mean that they are a member of the caste. Presumably, men can be members of the LoWV.
- I don't think all you Westerners share that notion of not going deep and turning themselves incomprehensible to us. Or else why would there be discussion on some league of voters or whatever. Anyways.... would you answer the question there or here? §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 10:19, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
Folks, if you'll excuse the pun, whether or not schools etc require the info is academic. I am sure that they have controls in place to ensure that the information is used only in a very limited manner for administrative purposes and that, for example, it is not published for the world to see. Which is precisely what happens if we publish something on Wikipedia. - Sitush (talk) 09:27, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- yes the info is not published anywhere but I see the colleges publishing the list of short-listed canditates from particular category for different purposes like scholarships. --sarvajna (talk) 09:32, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, I'm sure they do publish lists of OBC/SC etc, That is not caste. Or are you saying that the lists name the specific castes and, if so, are any of those lists available for notable people who have articles here? - Sitush (talk) 09:54, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- No! They don't list Category-->Caste-->Name. Its just Category-->Name. There isn't any list available with me that includes any person from here. But the point was for general public. Category is not really private. But then i prefer mentioning the actual name of caste instead of GEN/SC/ST/OBC.
Also, my question of "public identification" has been left behind. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 10:11, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- Even the thought that there was a time and place in India where schools asked children to specify their castes is absolutely repulsive. Yuk! I am glad this doesn't happen anymore. At least not in the six schools I've been to and the two rural ones that my grandfather and friend run. In my experience, colleges/universities usually do well to keep categories private. But there are occasions when they slip up. Displaying candidates who got SC/ST scholarships on public noticeboards is one, preferential treatment in distributing library books publicly is another. Regarding public self identification, membership of state level parties with caste ideologies is not self–identification. Exigencies of Indian politics compel all parties to have a diverse group of candidates. I can't think of any political party that bars candidates on the basis of their caste or which contests with a homogenous group of candidates. Correct Knowledge«৳alk» 10:31, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- I agree re: caste parties. I used "possibly" or some similar word when I raised this in the VPP discussion. There may be some cases where it is applicable but thus far I've never come across one. I recall someone once trying to argue that because person X had been honoured with an award by Y Sabha then that amounted to self-identification - it is, of course, nonsense. - Sitush (talk) 11:08, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- By "public identification" i did not mean "publicly self-identification". I meant public widely identifying someone as to belonging to a certain caste, irrespective of subject's self-identification. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 11:37, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- I agree re: caste parties. I used "possibly" or some similar word when I raised this in the VPP discussion. There may be some cases where it is applicable but thus far I've never come across one. I recall someone once trying to argue that because person X had been honoured with an award by Y Sabha then that amounted to self-identification - it is, of course, nonsense. - Sitush (talk) 11:08, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- Even the thought that there was a time and place in India where schools asked children to specify their castes is absolutely repulsive. Yuk! I am glad this doesn't happen anymore. At least not in the six schools I've been to and the two rural ones that my grandfather and friend run. In my experience, colleges/universities usually do well to keep categories private. But there are occasions when they slip up. Displaying candidates who got SC/ST scholarships on public noticeboards is one, preferential treatment in distributing library books publicly is another. Regarding public self identification, membership of state level parties with caste ideologies is not self–identification. Exigencies of Indian politics compel all parties to have a diverse group of candidates. I can't think of any political party that bars candidates on the basis of their caste or which contests with a homogenous group of candidates. Correct Knowledge«৳alk» 10:31, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- No! They don't list Category-->Caste-->Name. Its just Category-->Name. There isn't any list available with me that includes any person from here. But the point was for general public. Category is not really private. But then i prefer mentioning the actual name of caste instead of GEN/SC/ST/OBC.
- Yes, I'm sure they do publish lists of OBC/SC etc, That is not caste. Or are you saying that the lists name the specific castes and, if so, are any of those lists available for notable people who have articles here? - Sitush (talk) 09:54, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
Sengar
hello Sitush, I don understand when you have no knowledge about the content given on the "SENGAR" page then on what basis you are deleting the same. Being regular user of wikipedia doesn't gives you right to delete whatever you feel like. you should be confident and thorough with the article which you are editing...I am Sengar Rajput and i know whatever was there on that page was true so i would suggest you to just correct the page as it was before and in future just for editing sake don't simply delete content from any other pages until or unless you have knowledge about it.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.167.244.200 (talk) 11:52, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
the information which was given on that page is from the book "A Handbook on Rajputs by A H Bingley" page 122-132. so first do some homework before editing any page cause lot of effort goes into it..blindly deleting stuffs is not at all acceptable.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yashpal.sengar (talk • contribs) 13:09, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- Please could you take a read of our policy concerning verifiability and also that relating to reliable sources. In addition, WP:Citing sources should be helpful to you because, even if Bingley was reliable, it is by no means clear that everything is/was sourced to him. As it happens, Bingley is a poor source, as are practically all of those from the British Raj period. In this specific case, he was not a historian, a sociologist, an ethnologist, an Indologist, an anthropologist, an archaeologist or a linguist. In fact, he was a professional soldier and his "Handbook" was a guide intended to help other professional soldiers "understand the natives". Much of what he says was derived from the works of preceding authors and, in particular, from the discredited James Tod. No way is he an acceptable source. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 13:16, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
listen sitush what ever was there on that page earlier was true information and by the way book is not a poor source for information there are many articles in wikipedia which have only book refernces and A.H Bingley was not a soldier he was ranked officer in army as a CAPTAIN...and one should not be historian, a sociologist, an ethnologist, an Indologist, an anthropologist, an archaeologist or a linguist to write a book ...now what ever information you have added on that page is totally wrong and looks like you are playing with "SENGAR" image and it can pull you under "defamation" charges...you don know what trouble you are inviting for yourself and you can land up with a legal notice ...so correct the page that will be good.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.178.195.151 (talk) 10:13, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
- I am trying to source the thing but am struggling to find any detailed study of the people, hence it is a bit patchy at the moment. You, on the other hand, need to take a read of WP:Identifying reliable sources and our policy concerning legal threats. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 10:26, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
so if you are struggling to find any detail information about it then go do some research and then edit that page and remove that information which is no were true...I am from the same clan and i know what ever was there its true... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.178.195.151 (talk) 10:38, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
- Sigh. Your own knowledge counts for little on Wikipedia. More or less every statement made in an article must be verifiable by use of reliable sources. The burden is on the person who adds the information to ensure that this is so. I really do advise you to read some of these blue-linked terms that I am providing. You are unlikely to make much headway here unless you understand the underlying issues. Wikipedia is not a perfect repository of knowledge. Of course, there is nothing to stop you writing whatever you please at some other place of your choosing. - Sitush (talk) 10:43, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
but what you have added on the page now is not true "The area of Lateri in present-day Madhya Pradesh was once ruled by the Sengars, whose livelihood was derived primarily from looting and plundering and was reflected in the name of their capital, Looteri. In what is now Uttar Pradesh, the principal town of the Lakhnesar pargana during the medieval period was Rasra.
In eighteenth- and early nineteenth-century Bundelkhand, an area that is now split between the states of Uttar Pradesh and Madhya Pradesh, the Sengars were among those communities that practised infanticide and, in particular, female infanticide.
Sengar were rulers and they have kingdom and they were not dacoits or thieves...either correct the information or remove it ..thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.178.195.151 (talk) 11:04, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
- Many, if not all, Rajput groups were warrior types. They plundered land etc and then extracted rents, or they fought against other groups and took their wealth. And so on. Whether that is dacoitry or not might be an issue of semantics but the general point made by the source appears to be reasonable based on my background knowledge. Perhaps the Sengar were different from other Rajputs but, for example, I've seen some tantalising bits pointing out that the Brits never really managed to get control of them in the isolated north-eastern Ganges region, which suggests a certain feistiness. I can't actually say that in the article because I do not have access to the sources in full. - Sitush (talk) 11:16, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
I think mr.sitush your knowledge base is very narrow ...go learn the difference between ruler and dacoit....ruler take tax the way we pay to our government they din't looted people...so when you don't have any strong source to support the article then remove it from the page and you cannot specify one clan for practicing infanticide when there is nothing to do with clan at all its personal matter....so mind yourself.....the source from which the earlier page was taken might not be from the strong source(from your point of view) but go read it and understand it...122.178.195.151 (talk) 11:29, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
- Certainly, some Rajputs were rulers. However, the vast majority were not and it would make little sense otherwise: can you seriously imagine 25,000 or whatever members of a single clan all' being rulers? Who were they ruling? This is a similar argument to one that has been had across countless caste articles with regard to the kshatriya varna. It is obviously not the case that every single caste was kshatriya, otherwise there would have been no agriculture, no haircutting, no leather manufacture etc - but if you had checked our articles 18 months ago then you could have been forgiven for thinking that in fact everyone was a kshatriya. That is why we have to use reliable sources and not what people tell us. Caste stuff here is incredibly prone to puffery.
I've read a lot of Bingley, by the way. I was also the person primarily responsible for writing our featured article on James Tod, whom many Rajputs ludicrously still believe to be a reliable source. This conversation is clearly not going to change your mind or mine, so perhaps it is best to wind it up? - Sitush (talk) 13:54, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
Arb Case
You don't appear to have been informed of an Arb case, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#User:Doncram, but seeing as you are one of the people who has allegedly been bullying Doncram (according to Doncram), I think you should have been. (I've offered my take on the caste articles issue). -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 16:40, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- I had seen it, thanks. There seems little point in me getting involved at present. - Sitush (talk) 16:44, 9 January 2013 (UTC
- I notice that it has already become the common TLDR and petty wrangling about procedure. And that Doncram's "DENOS" acronym adds me as a party even though I am not (yet) named as one. Oh, well, if people want to risk hanging themselves before the case has even been opened then that is their choice. I'll wait for the real thing because acceptance of the case was, imo, always beyond doubt without my intervention. - Sitush (talk) 17:16, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- Yep, it looks pretty much accepted by now. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 17:56, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- I notice that it has already become the common TLDR and petty wrangling about procedure. And that Doncram's "DENOS" acronym adds me as a party even though I am not (yet) named as one. Oh, well, if people want to risk hanging themselves before the case has even been opened then that is their choice. I'll wait for the real thing because acceptance of the case was, imo, always beyond doubt without my intervention. - Sitush (talk) 17:16, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- I named you as an involved party there. Please do comment there and be advised there is Wikipedia:Arbitration guide (which would be included in the standard canned notification message I guess). --doncram 18:05, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- I can't see where you have named me. Among the walls of text that you have added, the best I can find is this, where you muse and then ask a question: Also, I am not sure whether Elkman should be dropped or whether Sitush should be added as Involved parties. I tend to think they both be included, now. I am not sure, process-wise, how their involvement is to be discussed and decided. - Sitush (talk) 18:12, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- Ah, you told me here and then named me a few minutes later. I have no intention of commenting at this stage & I have no idea why any comment from me in the current discussion would be beneficial. - Sitush (talk) 18:16, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- There are several mentions of you in the wall of text - probably best to search for your name -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 18:17, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- Ah, you told me here and then named me a few minutes later. I have no intention of commenting at this stage & I have no idea why any comment from me in the current discussion would be beneficial. - Sitush (talk) 18:16, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- Oh, I've seen all the mentions because I've been following this from within minutes of the request opening. Nonetheless, this is a request for a case, it is going to be accepted and I cannot for the life of me see what I could possibly say about anything that has not already been said to encourage or discourage acceptance. And I've no intention of making a fool of myself at this stage. - Sitush (talk) 18:27, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- Yep, keep your powder dry and save making a fool of yourself for when it counts ;-) -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 19:18, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- LOL! - Sitush (talk) 19:27, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- Yep, keep your powder dry and save making a fool of yourself for when it counts ;-) -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 19:18, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- Oh, I've seen all the mentions because I've been following this from within minutes of the request opening. Nonetheless, this is a request for a case, it is going to be accepted and I cannot for the life of me see what I could possibly say about anything that has not already been said to encourage or discourage acceptance. And I've no intention of making a fool of myself at this stage. - Sitush (talk) 18:27, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
Talkback message from Tito Dutta
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Message added 03:41, 10 January 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
See the last section! Tito Dutta (talk) 03:41, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
- Not sure which article it is that you are referring to in that section, Tito. I'm likely to be a bit hit-and-miss over the next few days - I've got phase two of my hospitalisation coming up and also seem likely to under the cosh at Wikipedia's highest "court" because of this. Nonetheless, if you let me know what is being referred to then I'll try to take a look. You might have been better putting your proposal on the article talk page and linking to it from the user's talk page. That would enable everyone who might have an interest to see it. - Sitush (talk) 04:09, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
- Hospitalization for what? The whole article needs copyedit/clean-start which is proposed here. All original research, primary source, spams.. some M.L Verma books, non RS etc should be removed out! --Tito Dutta (talk) 04:26, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
- Sorry, I completely misread that you were already on the article talk page. Like I said, I'm a bit pre-occupied! I'll take a look during the next few hours. I've got various long-term health problems and also a series of operations underway: heart, joint replacement, proposal to drill some holes in my head, that sort of thing. I'm used to it but it can still be stressful and it takes me away from here. First of the current batch was last month but they're likely to drag on for some time. - Sitush (talk) 04:40, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
- Hospitalization for what? The whole article needs copyedit/clean-start which is proposed here. All original research, primary source, spams.. some M.L Verma books, non RS etc should be removed out! --Tito Dutta (talk) 04:26, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
- Hey, Sitush--all the best to you. You'll be as good as new when you come out, though I don't know exactly how good that was to begin with. I'll be thinking of you, mate. If you email me your address in hospital, I'll have the girls send you drawings of fashion queens and kissing machines. Drmies (talk) 05:28, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
- I also send my best wishes. Mind your docs and nurses and get well! LadyofShalott 05:35, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) I will be entirely new by the time they've finished with me. Just scan the pics: as much as original Mies artwork may end up being as valuable as the Dutch Masters, trusting the British postal system to deliver & trusting the NHS to keep me in one place are somewhat crazy ideas. I was hoping to imbibe some anaesthetic at the Manchester Wikimeet this Saturday but that is now looking unlikely. However, a kind person did use me as an intermediary for the provision of some beer money - the intended recipient is aware of it and we'll sort something out. Tbh, I could do without the ArbCom stuff at the moment: talk about bad timing. - Sitush (talk) 05:40, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
- Wishing you a speedy recovery.--Amadscientist (talk) 05:52, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
- Best wishes for speedy recovery Sitush. Will watch this space to see how much better Sitush 2.0 is than the previous one. Correct Knowledge«৳alk» 10:36, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
- I'm not sure that I've ever attained v. 1.0! I've been in beta-testing for 50 years now! - Sitush (talk) 10:45, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
- Sorry to hear about this Sitush. Hope you are better soon.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 13:18, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
- I thought, I'll talk about page on Rewari which you manage and where I live. Get well soon ! Then we communicate.Sudhirkbhargava (talk) 15:47, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
- You're in my thoughts, friend. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 15:48, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
- Some fmt changes above, signed --Tito Dutta (talk) 15:54, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
- Yeah. Thanks, but I've removed it. I can deal with colourful language but colourful text just screws my eyes up ;) Sitush (talk) 16:46, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
- Some fmt changes above, signed --Tito Dutta (talk) 15:54, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
You usually have a rational approach to India :)
Please would you drop by this conversation and consider whether you have input to make? Fiddle Faddle (talk) 15:10, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
Talkback
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NickCT (talk) 17:56, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
An arbitration case involving you has been opened, and is located at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Doncram. Evidence that you wish the Arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence sub-page, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Doncram/Evidence. Please add your evidence by January 17, 2013, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can contribute to the case workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Doncram/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, (X! · talk) · @806 · 18:20, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
You've been mentioned
I mentioned you at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Reema Welling/sandbox. Please feel free to drop by and give your thoughts as you are the one targeted by the legal threat. Hasteur (talk) 21:34, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- I have deleted that sandbox. Sorry to disagree with you, Hasteur, but thanks for dropping Sitush a line. Drmies (talk) 15:51, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
A barnstar for you!
![]() |
The Original Barnstar |
For your efforts on page Rewari Sudhirkbhargava (talk) 16:08, 10 January 2013 (UTC) |
- If I believe everything I've been told by various IPs/SPAs etc then I'll be arrested as soon as I set foot in India :( More seriously, I am not good on geographic articles because, well, they don't really interest me all that much and I have trouble dealing with the seemingly lower standards required of sources. So, any work I do on places in India etc tends mostly to be of the copyediting and removal of puffery variety, although I'll add stuff etc if I'm sure about it. We have people who really love doing these things and they should be
cajoled into assistingencouraged to help out because I am sure that Rewari could be much improved. IIRC, Ssiram is one of those. - Sitush (talk) 16:43, 10 January 2013 (UTC)- What I appreciate is that you maintained the page regularly, otherwise it was free for all, mostly for students who would put the names of their villages, and happenings thereof, prominently on the page. I have not added/edited on the page for several months now, though all the photographs on Rewari page were uploaded/placed by me. Intend to put a gallery of Rewari Heritage Structures. The city was important during Vedic Period (which I consider 10,000 years ago, Rewari being part of Vedic State-'Brahmavarta'), Mahabharata period, Mughal Period and British Period, but page does not show it. I plan to improve it now. I hope you recover soon and will find this page in sobre colours. Regards.Sudhirkbhargava (talk) 06:06, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
- If I believe everything I've been told by various IPs/SPAs etc then I'll be arrested as soon as I set foot in India :( More seriously, I am not good on geographic articles because, well, they don't really interest me all that much and I have trouble dealing with the seemingly lower standards required of sources. So, any work I do on places in India etc tends mostly to be of the copyediting and removal of puffery variety, although I'll add stuff etc if I'm sure about it. We have people who really love doing these things and they should be
Kaniyar
Hi, 3R is not the problem here. But bullying matters. we are not supposed to put any content which is derogatory to or demeaning any person or category of people really an offense . So I request you to remove the bracketed sentence by yourself. thanks Corindia (talk) 16:58, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- I think that you are trying to invoke WP:BLP for a caste community, probably via WP:BLPGROUP. It is certainly a novel approach but it is one that I would contest. If such statements are reliably sourced (and Jack Goody is certainly such a source) then they are valid provided that they do not fall foul of some other policy, such as being undue weight. We are not censored when it comes to stuff like this but, of course, you can always supply a reliably-sourced alternate point of view and that would be a valid addition. You claim that there are such sources, so my suggestion to you is to provide them on the talk page. Which is where this discussion should be. - Sitush (talk) 17:09, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
It is not a field for show off, it is not the medium for attacking the reputation of another person or catogory in the guise of good faith editing.Corindia (talk) 17:55, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- I am sorry but I really do not understand this last comment of yours. Could you try again, please? What is the "it" that you refer to, for example? The article? - Sitush (talk) 17:59, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
certainly, "it" refers to the article . WP:NOT WP:NOBATTLE Corindia (talk) 18:08, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- You are referring to WP:BATTLE. I see it and raise WP:CENSORED, as well as pointing out that I have no vested interest in any Indian community. I really do not see how the article can be considered an attack: it merely states information that is verifiable using very reliable sources. As I said before, if you consider it to be wrong then you need to show this by providing the reliable sources that you claim to exist. Having no vested interest, I am always open to new sources etc. - Sitush (talk) 04:19, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
If an author make statement from his or her view point / frame of mind,it is unjustifiable to quote such statements as reliable.( ex: is it acceptable the remark of a person , who claims that the sun rises because of the rooster's crowing ) So certain communities may have had enjoyed the privileges of power for some period of time, by oppressing others, which does not imply that they had the same status ever since and always.
Corindia (talk) 16:39, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
user reopening settled issues in other pages
Dear Sitush, It seems user hari7478 is reopening settled issues in iyengar page to other pages in Sri Sampradaya and Sri Vaishnava. Please help!! FastnFurios — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fastnfurios (talk • contribs) 22:06, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
- Sitush, i never brought older issues into other iyengar related pages(sri sampradaya). The edit was made simultaneously while making the older revision. Thereafter , either i neglected the sri sampradaya page, or i forgot to make newer revisions. Also, i'm hereby providing the diff of edits that this user made so that you can know his intentions.
- Diff 1:[2] - user:fastandsurious's edit comment - "sensitive information should be supported by world renowned authors".
- Reply: However, as per WP verifiability sensitive info should be supported by neutral parties. Just because the author is indian doesn't mean her works are insignificant.
- Sitush, i never brought older issues into other iyengar related pages(sri sampradaya). The edit was made simultaneously while making the older revision. Thereafter , either i neglected the sri sampradaya page, or i forgot to make newer revisions. Also, i'm hereby providing the diff of edits that this user made so that you can know his intentions.
- Diff 2: [3] - Unnecessary addition of "see also" section in the thenkalai page. The info box and the links in the main article serve the purpose of the "see also" section. Also the user had mischievously added "ahobila mutt" under that section trying to relate the mutt to the thenkalai branch without neutral party sources.
- Diff 2: [3] - Unnecessary addition of "see also" section in the thenkalai page. The info box and the links in the main article serve the purpose of the "see also" section. Also the user had mischievously added "ahobila mutt" under that section trying to relate the mutt to the thenkalai branch without neutral party sources.
- Although these issues have been discussed in the talk page, this user is just being a troll by reopening the same issues that were discussed in full length and settled. Need i say more? Thank You. Hari7478 (talk) 16:30, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Discussions pertaining to other wiki pages discussed in an unrelated talk page??
Sitush, a user has opened a discussion in the Iyengar talk page which seems to be unrelated to the Iyengar wiki page, rather concerning the thenkalai wiki page. The user has been copy pasting the same/spamming across various talk pages. See here - Talk:Iyengar#Ahobila_Mutt_5th_Jeeyar_Thenkalai. Though i've responded with an explanation, the discussion is about another wiki page, and not about the edits in the iyengar page. Don't you think that discussion should be removed right away? Can you do it? Because I don't know if it is right on my part to delete another user's talk page comment(although that discussion is unrelated to the Iyengar page). Thank you. Hari7478 (talk) 05:47, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
- Hi Hari7478, Sitush is having a short break for medical reasons, but I'm sure he'll respond when he's recovered and is back here. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 17:16, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
- Was thinking all the while why Sitush is not intervening. Thanks for letting us know this. Good to know Sitush is doing well. Any idea when he is coming back? --= No ||| Illusion = (talk) 02:49, 25 January 2013 (UTC)Mayasutra
- BTW, Fastnfurious is not bringing up unrelated topics. When Sitush returns, we can have a proper discussion on it. --= No ||| Illusion = (talk) 02:49, 25 January 2013 (UTC)Mayasutra
Sitush doing well
Just a quick update for talk page stalkers - I've heard from Sitush, and his recent medical procedure went well, he's been discharged from hospital, and is having a relaxed recovery. He'll be back here when he feels up to it. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 17:16, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
- Good news! --Tito Dutta (talk) 17:19, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
- Good to Know
← Abstruce (Talk) 06:21, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
- Good to Know
- Thank you for the update Boing. It's nice to know Sitush is doing well. Correct Knowledge«৳alk» 15:05, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
- Good to know of his recovery - Let him be back when he fees great.Rayabhari (talk) 16:48, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks Boing. Good to know! --regentspark (comment) 17:07, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
- Wish you a speedy recovery.--Dwaipayan (talk) 17:17, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks Boing. Good to know! --regentspark (comment) 17:07, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
- Good to know of his recovery - Let him be back when he fees great.Rayabhari (talk) 16:48, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
- Thank you for the update Boing. It's nice to know Sitush is doing well. Correct Knowledge«৳alk» 15:05, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
Re: Lyrics
99% chances are "you" and 1% chance someone else has posted a message as "Sitush" at my talk page. This is the reply: Ah alright! I was waiting for you there and that's why did not say anything "yes" or "no"! Do you think article needs to be fully protected until you come back? --Tito Dutta (talk) 09:33, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
- Replied on your talk but please do use the "Email this user" link on the left here if you want further confirmation - I can understand the concern and AGF is not a suicide pact. Thanks to all those who have left messages above also, but I really need to step away from this for a bit longer. See you soon.--2.219.218.79 (talk) 09:44, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
- Oh, you might want to keep an eye on Barai (caste), where Theoppulent has been having some issues. They've already had numerous warnings and a {{uw-castewarning}} but it seems not to have sunk in. No need for knowledge of the subject matter because the content problems are self-evident. Thanks.--2.219.218.79 (talk) 10:01, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
Are you admin?
Hello,
Are you admin? --¢ℓαяк (talk) 12:40, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
- Hi. Sitush is on a break at the moment and is not around to answer your questions, but I can answer that one - no, he is not an admin. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 13:08, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
- Who are admins here? --¢ℓαяк (talk) 15:10, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:List of administrators for a list. But I might be able to help you more if I know why you want to know - is there some specific admin action you want done? -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 15:13, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
- Need help in removing a topic. --¢ℓαяк (talk) 09:14, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
- I'm an admin. I also regularly work in the topic area of Indian castes, which it seems has been your focus. Sometimes I work as an administrator, and sometimes as an editor (we're not allowed to do the both at the same time). If you'd like, I can help; it may be easier to raise the matter on my talk page rather than bothering Sitush's. Qwyrxian (talk) 10:06, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
- (edit conflict)Use steps as instructed in WP:AFD for removing some topic. Or if the article fits one of the criteria, you may also use WP:CSD. And instead of being so secretive about it if you directly tell us which article it is, you might get better help. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 10:08, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
- It's presumably Saini, which ¢ℓαяк tried to speedy delete with the reason "A bogus article". I'm just heading over to User talk:Clarkpoon to try to explain. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 10:16, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
- See User talk:Clarkpoon#Saini -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 10:33, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
- Need help in removing a topic. --¢ℓαяк (talk) 09:14, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:List of administrators for a list. But I might be able to help you more if I know why you want to know - is there some specific admin action you want done? -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 15:13, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
- Who are admins here? --¢ℓαяк (talk) 15:10, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
Request clarification
Hi Sitush, Hope you are doing well now. Wanted to know why and on what basis did you make changes to the disputed section on "Ethnicity, genes and origin" despite the unresolved discussion on the Iyengar talk page? And that too despite typing out each page of sources (way back in June 2012) as provided by Hari7478 (which he has misquoted to pass off his racist views). Since you did that, Hari7478 now claims "Other users/admin have reviewed & edited the current revision". Am filing for arbitration (on Hari7478) and your explanation (why you edited the disputed section despite the unresolved discussion) will be helpful. Thanks. --= No ||| Illusion = (talk) 17:06, 6 February 2013 (UTC)Mayasutra
- I'm just not up to dealing with this or anything else involving seasoned debaters of content/behavioural issues at the moment, sorry. The back-and-forth demands more time and concentration than I can give it. I'm also using someone else's PC and am unwilling to sign in because of that, and I think there might be a considerable risk that which ever parties disagreed with me would lay a charge of socking.
You'll either have to wait or go ahead. Please be careful of WP:BOOMERANG: I hope that you do not mean ArbCom when you refer to "arbitration", especially since throwing around accusations of racism etc is very dodgy territory. Sorry that I cannot be of any more use right now.--2.219.218.79 (talk) 20:01, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
- Both are currently blocked for edit warring on that page Sitush. Hope you're doing well. --regentspark (comment) 20:08, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
- And I hope the same thing. Drmies (talk) 15:44, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
Notice of Dispute resolution discussion
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Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute in which you may have been involved. Content disputes can hold up article development, therefore we are requesting your participation to help find a resolution. The thread is "Royal College, Colombo".
Please take a moment to review the simple guide and join the discussion. Thank you! EarwigBot operator / talk 17:04, 12 February 2013 (UTC) A barnstar for you!
Wikipedians missing u!!Dear Sitush, I hope u r recovering well n' fast. In absence of u, there are several pages started being vandalized like Chamar, Jatav, Mahar n there must be many more. For example in Jatav and Chamar they have added Todd's listing claiming they are part of 36 royal races. It is impossible to deal with them, who edit from new ips or freshly created IDs, w/o a person like u watching over these articles. Wish u a fast n speedy recovery.Jethwarp (talk) 03:59, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
Sitush, You are being missed :(
!!Hi Sitush
Welcome ....... back! --regentspark (comment) 13:08, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
Welcome back!![]() ![]()
Also, when you post on talk pages you should sign your name using four tildes (~~~~); that should automatically produce your username and the date after your post. I hope you enjoy editing here again and being a Wikipedian! If you have any questions, feel free to leave me a message on my talk page, consult Wikipedia:Questions, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Again, welcome back! Qwyrxian (talk) 15:47, 23 February 2013 (UTC) Just wanted to give you the links to decrease your chances of getting in trouble for something :). Very glad that you're feeling better. Qwyrxian (talk) 15:47, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
Arbitrary headingHello sitush, do you have any recommendation regarding a page that i can go to on how to do categories? Also regarding Raju page, not exactly sure what you mean. I'm pretty well versed on the topic as well as other communities from AP and am working to make it a better page, with citations. Not exactly sure what a sockpuppet is but I have not made any changes that would be regarded as unconstructive or unsourced. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.22.29.198 (talk) 22:18, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
From wiki: A sockpuppet is an online identity used for purposes of deception. The term—a reference to the manipulation of a simple hand puppet made from a sock—originally referred to a false identity assumed by a member of an internet community who spoke to, or about himself while pretending to be another person.[1] The term now includes other uses of misleading online identities, such as those created to praise, defend or support a third party or organization,[2] or to circumvent a suspension or ban from a website. A significant difference between the use of a pseudonym[3] and the creation of a sockpuppet is that the sockpuppet poses as an independent third-party unaffiliated with the puppeteer. Many online communities have a policy of blocking sockpuppets. How am I in anyway going to fall in this category. Every time I have made edites i have included sources, we may debate how valid their are in your opinion. Is it your opinion that I am trying to make a puff piece out of this? I have made an effort to show all sides to the story, I haven't removed any of the contrary citations, how can that be the actions of a sockpuppet? As far as having a discussion, you have stated that what is deemed varyfiable and not is arbritary, and even your link about primary sources doesn't deem court rulings as not valid. When having these discussions, who is the final arbritator about what is a concensus, you?99.22.29.198 (talk) 01:48, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
So basically you will not allow any information that you don't approve onto this article. Anytime i make an edite you will undo it. Nevermind, this is a waste of time and a joke, but enjoy your wiki.99.22.29.198 (talk) 01:56, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
Genetics - Iyengar articleI can prove that the other user(Mayasutra) is just uncomfortable with the contents of the genetic sources, coz i feel that he is opposed to linking iyengars with europeans. It is a very clear circumstance in this case. Playing down all sources related to genetics just because one user is uncomfortable with it, is sad. I feel that(in my opinion) he may be toying around in the talk page, & i can prove it to you with his varying/self contradictory comments. Anyhow, this one is a clear case. Hari7478 (talk) 21:35, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
Jat peopleHi there, Thanks for your message regarding Jat people. You've done great work maintaining the article - but I have a few doubts about the recent addition of the Nijjar source. It seems to me as though the book is attempting to perpetuate the author's own view of Jat origin; asserting a certain origin theory based solely upon the writings of colonial administrators. Now, although the addition is accompanied by valid citations, I'm sure you are aware of how contentious this issue can be, and often filters into other articles related to Jat people on Wikipedia, most often in ways that are unconstructive and reek of WP:OR. I think the article would benefit from the omission of the Indo-Scythian mention, as this often becomes the focus of edit wars and 3RR etc. It is a subject that interests me, however, and I've done a bit of digging around on the genetic basis for such assumptions, which seem to disprove any genetic basis for perceived separateness of Jats from their surrounding populations. I encountered a website yesterday which seems to be dedicated to the genetics of South Asia, by testing the DNA of various South Asian populations to determine genetic affinities. Two infographics I found also include Jat participants and it is clear that the genetic makeup of Jat populations is overwhelmingly similar to their surrounding populations, which disproves any idea of a separate Scythian origin of Jats, speaking of which seems to have arisen as part of 'divide and rule' colonial policy and could therefore be considered as conjecture. I am also not sure how the Nijjar reference complies with WP:PUS, as it appears that his text is merely taking the opinions of colonial administrators as verbatim in order to assert his own view that Jats are Scythians; something that I'm not sure is any better than what the likes of 'jatworld' and their ilk seek to perpetuate. The links that are of interest are here: [5] and [6] and I was wondering if you felt that it would be appropriate for this information to be included on the Jat people page, maybe as part of a statement affirming that there is no genetic basis for the Scythian origin theory of the aforementioned community. I think it would be refreshing to counteract dubious colonial claims with genetic evidence; definitely something of encyclopedic value. I would have liked to have found published journals with genetic information on Indian communities but it seems like the Harappa Ancestry Project is the only source for such information right now. Let me know what your thoughts are.
Hi Sitush, this user has been here for around three months. I highly suspect that he is a sock of User:Padmalakshmisx who was known for constant POV pushing in Telugu cinema article. While I started a SPI case before a while, the CU closed the case marking that the account is no way connected with the previous socks. While an RFC is going on in the talk page of Telugu cinema article this edit made by them has increased my suspicion. I'm pretty much sure that the user has shifted to some other place or might be using a new hand for editing purposes. —Vensatry (Ping me) 06:12, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
Wikiproject Articles for creation Needs You!WikiProject Articles for creation Backlog Elimination Drive
![]() WikiProject AFC is holding a one month long Backlog Elimination Drive! Awards will be given out for all reviewers participating in the drive in the form of barnstars at the end of the drive. Delivered by User:EdwardsBot on behalf of Wikiproject Articles for Creation at 13:39, 27 February 2013 (UTC) Radical ChangesPlease dont hack and slash the memon article until you discuss the changes with people who have worked on the article. (Lowkeyvision (talk) 01:55, 2 March 2013 (UTC))
Restoration of deleted editsSitush Ji, You have removed an inline source calling it dubious. These are not dubious entries. The sources were duly mentioned (given in Roman Urdu along with English translation) which you have deleted too. Moreover, this specific information was long ago gathered by Zia Fatehabadi’s main biographers, a) Malik Ram and b) Zarina Sani, and is part of their respective works. a) “Is kii tahqeeq to nahin ho sakii ki yeh khaandaan fatehabad mien kab se aabaad hai, lekin mojoodah muamlaat kii ru se yeh muthaqaq hai ki 1773 mein unke moras-e-aalii lala badal das ke pote llala tansukh rai vahaan maujood the.” (The search as to when this family had come to settle in Fatehabad could not be conducted but on the basis of available information it is evident that Lala Tansukh Rai, grandson of Lala Badal Das, lived there.) - Zia Fatehabadi Shakhs aur Shair (July 1977) by Malik Ram page.9 b) “zia fatehabadi, soni (khatri) khaandaan se ta-aluq rakhte hain… haridwaar ke panditon ke paas jo record mahfooz hai us se pata chaltaa hai ki lala badal das soni ka pota lala tansukh rai 1773 mein fatehabad se haridwaar teerathyatraa kii gharaz se aayaa.” (Zia Fatehabadi belongs to Soni (Khatri) family.. it becomes known from the records with pundits of Haridwar that Lala Tansukh Rai Soni, grandson of Lala Badal Das Soni had come from Fatehabad to Haridwar in 1773 on a pilgrimage trip.”) - Booda Darakhat (1979) by Zarina Sani page.14 Therefore, you are requested to restore the edits that you deleted on 01/03/2013. Thanks. By the way, whereas a full Wikipage on Dora Annie Dickens, the infant daughter of Charles Dickens who lived for a year or so, deemed notable, is acceptable, but not the page on Zarina Sani, the reputed author and poetess, which was deleted on the ground that she lacked notability. You have found mention of Soni Hindu Kapila Gotra Kshatriya in the case of Zia Fatehabadi objectionable but mention of Nambudari parentage as also of gotram and sutram in the case of Adi Shankara, and of Hindu family and Shakya clan in the case of Gautama Buddha, or mention of Saljuq Turk in the case of Ghalib not objectionable. The Indian Govt. seeks info. about caste and religion from its citizens then why this self-imposed restriction via so-called Sanskritisation. Don’t you find this restriction unwarranted? The relied upon page nowhere debars mention or inclusion of such info in the Wikipages created. Regards. Enjoy good health.Soni Ruchi (talk) 07:52, 2 March 2013 (UTC) Talkback![]() Message added Hari7478 (talk) 00:43, 2 March 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template. ![]() Message added Hari7478 (talk) 15:52, 3 March 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template. Use of GENI site as a citationHi Sitush, while this question may sound pointless, wanted to get your opinion on whether the [[ http://www.geni.com/projects/Kashmiri-Pandits-KP/4154 | following GENI website]] may be used as a citation in the KP & Kaul articles. While it uses content from the Kashmiri news network, it provides an interesting insight into how the various Kashmiri Pandit names originated. -Ambar (talk) 20:14, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
ANIFYI. --regentspark (comment) 17:24, 4 March 2013 (UTC) Opinion soughtI am eager to have your or your project's opinion about the verification of dates (already arrived/now arrived at on the basis of available astronomical data) using Planetarium Software conducted by B.N.Narahari Achar, whereby he has confirmed the Mahabharata War date as 22/11/3067 BCE, date of Nirvana of Gautama Buddha as 27/3/1807 BCE, period of Mauraya rule as 1535-1219 BCE, date of birth of Adi Shankara as 5/4/509 BCE etc. This has reference to his essay - Some Fixed points in the chronology of Bharata included in the book - Astronomical Dating of Events and Select Vignettes (http://indicethes.org/PROC14.PS.pdf). Thanks.Aditya soni (talk) 05:46, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
Neutrality Tags
Arbitrary heading: KoliHi, sitush, Please let me know, why my comment has been removed from "koli people". I have given a reference also. If I am wrong then please let me know the actual koli people from MUMBAI. I want to know this as my wife is also koli and her village is colaba mumbai. Actually I have been searching for Mumbai koli people book but i hardly find any document for same. -Thanks prashant — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prshntsathe (talk • contribs) 10:49, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
Re: Lowkeyvoice[Wearily.] Just leave him be. He'll make whatever decision he makes; he's clearly not going to listen to you, and I've run out of words with which to explain, so I really don't think there's much to do but wait. I know I don't have any right to be weary of this whole situation, considering that you've been in the thick of it the entire time, but still; blocking people like that makes me feel tired. :P If he goes back to his old tricks when the block expires, then the next stop is indef (maybe routed through AN(I), I dunno), but I'm still blindly optimistic that maybe he'll just agree to leave you alone altogether. Writ Keeper (t + c) 20:23, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
Hi,I am pointing to the same reference material that was used by Wikipedia.Using it as a reference partially will portray a group of people in a negative connotation and you cannot argue that i am using a weak reference from British raj. That reference was in Wikipedia for more than a year and i got the necessary approval for using that.In fact one of your moderators advised me to use that. Please refer my talk page if you need more information. Thanks -- preceding — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arjunnattar (talk • contribs) 19:04, 8 March 2013 UTC template, header added, minor copyedit --Tito Dutta (contact) 19:19, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
Hi, this is to let you know that the page List of Nadars was..re-edited by you,and had deleted out many reliable links and features..This is to tell you that it was briefely edited by me and my team...the information was properly reliable and if you are not pleased with it , you can do extensive research in the internet and any further deletion would lead to further action by Wikipedia. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mr n Mrs (talk • contribs) 14:47, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
Template:RpYou reverted a change that I made earlier today on the Jiddu Krishnamurti page in which I used the Template:Rp to tidy up the citations. As far as I'm aware the template:Rp is still current and the reasons for using it remain valid, i.e. "It is a solution for the problem of an article with a source that must be cited many, many times, at numerous different pages". What is your justification for reverting my edit? Vacarme (talk) 22:22, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
Care to touch this one with a ten-foot pole? :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 14:27, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
Testing![]() Message added by Tito Dutta (contact) 03:29, 12 March 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Wikipedia:WikiProject India/Talkback}} template.
An arbitration case regarding Doncram has now closed and the final decision is viewable at the link above. The following remedies have been enacted:
For the Arbitration Committee, (X! · talk) · @277 · 05:38, 12 March 2013 (UTC) Patel PageHey so what makes someone able to link a caste to a surname on the Patel page? A last name does not determine caste correct? The page is about a caste and the other page is about a surname(not a caste). I remember you taught me that Memon People page the people could not be listed because the last name is not caste unless there is proof. There is no proof that the people listed as Patel on the list are of the caste. This isnt an attack. Just trying to gain better insight what you logic is about this. (Lowkeyvision (talk) 22:49, 13 March 2013 (UTC))
So lists of surnames can be compiled as long as they are not castes because they are self evident? (Lowkeyvision (talk) 23:58, 13 March 2013 (UTC))
A man that can free a billion people from slavery without a sword or a gun is worth merit to study. Humanism is a religion to some. Wikipedia:Randy in Boise are the only people truly worthy of rebuke and your energy would be better spent correcting. ;) Now I gotta start making the list. Thank you for the information. (Lowkeyvision (talk)) Hi there!Would you be so kind as to take look at my talk? And perhaps, a comment will not be too much to ask of you? Mr T(Talk?) (New thread?) 08:24, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
Cyriac PullapillyFair enough as per his origin - I didn't read thoroughly enough before adding that category. Sorry. If we can't categorize him by citizenship, can we categorize his work better? Multiple "Historians of X" categories might apply, but that's still better than just "Historians." TheMightyQuill (talk) 10:10, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
EzhavaSitush, what is the core issue there? That Ezhava and Tiyya (Thiyya) are the same? I might be able to find some contemporary references for you if I know what to look for. --regentspark (comment) 22:38, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
Here's what I got:
There is a book by Dilip Menon "Caste, nationalism, and communism in South India : Malabar, 1900-1948" published by Cambridge U Press that might have more info. I'll take a look when I get to the library. --regentspark (comment) 17:20, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
An FYI that I picked up Menon's book from the library. There is a lot of mention of Tiyyas but no mention at all of Ezhavas. I'm off on travels for a bit and won't be taking the book with me but will take a closer look when I get back. Hope things are well with you. --regentspark (comment) 15:22, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
Lets RestartAlright dude, going through your history of editing you are not a bad guy. You are a bit of a ripper of articles but that is understandable with the amount of garbage that can be posted on a free encyclopedia. I think you hit a nerve when you edited the Memon People page because it meant a lot to me, but judging by your history of editing it wasn't personal. I would like to apologize for over reacting. While you are a senior editor, you still need to read WP:BITE. There are some people on wikipedia who appear to have sinister intentions and I don't think you are one of them. I would still appreciate it if you would remove the muslims usurped the hindu ruler on the Loharna dynasty. It is the only edit I am requesting because it is somewhat offensive to those whose ancestry converted from Hinduism and hoping you will do it as gesture of goodwill. Thank you. (Lowkeyvision (talk) 21:58, 13 March 2013 (UTC))
Can you please teach me how to go about discussing a change, specifically the process. It is something that is frustrating for new users because they dont know how go about helping imrpove the encyclopedia. At what point does one get WP:3O? At what point does one go to dispute resolution? While I am new to Wikipedia, I would like to think of myself as someone who is not an idiot ;) And I do not like to base things on fluff either because I need to have the ability to absorb large amounts of data and apply it correctly everyday. This includes ethical decisions I make everyday and medical ethics which are based on more Kantian ethics, which is where you will find most of my argument derived from. (Lowkeyvision (talk) 15:09, 16 March 2013 (UTC))
See talk page :) (Lowkeyvision (talk) 17:56, 16 March 2013 (UTC)) March 2013![]() To avoid being blocked, instead of reverting please consider using the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. See BRD for how this is done. You can post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bal537 (talk • contribs) 02:21, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
Muhammad Ilyas QadriConsidering that all sources for Muhammad Ilyas Qadri were self-published or otherwise violated WP:RS, do you think it's a candidate for WP:AfD? MezzoMezzo (talk) 17:40, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
Response to your comment on my talk pageI am editing using my phone and iPad. If you do not want to discuss, then that is your own problem, not mine. But I will not allow you to make disruptive edits to the Chamar page. bal537 21:01, 17 March 2013 (UTC) bal537 21:05, 17 March 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bal537 (talk • contribs) Sitush! How are you? I have a question: can you look at the recent edit dispute and figure out who's right? I'm semi-protecting the article from IP edits, which is where most of the caste-warring came from. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 14:23, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
Max MüllerHi, thank you for your interest in the Müller article. Obviously I have no "ownership" rights over the article, so you may edit it as you think fit. Yes, I have had it on my watchlist for a long time. I added a lot of content years ago, but I must admit I've done very little since. Most of the recent edits have been by Vacarme. I have partial access to Jstor, but only what my institution subscribes to. As for the content of the article, the main body of the article was written in the early days of Wikipedia when footnotes were unrequired and rarely to be found. I gave the article footnotes some years ago when a very very clumsy and primitive system was in operation. I'm sure that the article could be greatly improved with more up to date secondary sources. Unfortunately the only people who are consistently interested in it are Hindu nationalists who have a very distorted and confused understanding of Müller's role in 19th century culture and tend to repeat misconceptions and outright fictions repeated on Hindutva websites. Paul B (talk) 17:53, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
A barnstar for you!
thanxi thanks to you that you removed the word "brahman" from brief introduction of Banda Singh Bahadur .it was sure a wrong statement in that section and people who do not know much about BANDA SINGH BAHADUR could accept it as it is. but you forgot to remove the surname "bhardwaj".this is one of a leading surname of brahmins.it must remove immediately. in "early life " section there are diffrent theory of historians available.let the people read them and left the decision on themselves. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paramsinghantaal (talk • contribs) 02:47, 19 March 2013 (UTC) about BANDA SINGH BAHADUR articlehello sitush i am requsting you again to remove the surname 'bhardwaj'joined with the BANDA SINGH BAHADUR,S early name 'laxman dass'.it was good that you removed the word 'brahman' but if you will not remove the 'bhardwaj' then it is useless,because bhardwaj is also a subcaste of brahmins.so to keep the brief introduction completely neutral.this change is required.i am not asking you to mention him rajput there,but to remove any cast identity till we not reach any final conclusion. thanking you. --Paramsinghantaal (talk) 08:25, 19 March 2013 (UTC) Hi Sitush. Can you please check and let me know if the links which I have incorporated are good enough, Waiting Ananyaprasad (talk) 09:42, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
NimbalkarHi Sitush, Please let me know why are you removed lots of information of Nimbalkar.... As I've seen you removed on dated 16/10/2012, Nimbalkar's clan, symbol like details... Please do needful ASAP Thanks & Regards, Vinod Nimbalkar... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.201.123.235 (talk) 09:54, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
correction still awaitedhello sutish, the correction about removing surname 'bhardwaj' is still pending.please read my previous post.waiting for ur reply. thnx.--Paramsinghantaal (talk) 17:20, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
Professionalism is the need of timeYou just refer to my Talk page and then discuss on commons page develop a consensus before making your self a judge and then a en forcing inspector deleting materials from 30 articles. Take time with professional attitude not an edit war engaging behavior. I well come the improvements you may propose to the map on commons if you are a linguist until then I am reverting your deletions because I inserted them first so you first prove map wrong then you can delete them in that case I will not object THANKS Maria0333 (talk) 17:34, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
Illegitimi non carborundumIt's hard to avoid that sort of situation. Hang in there! --Orlady (talk) 01:59, 21 March 2013 (UTC) Take a look, please. It's full of (entirely?) OR. My prod, based on its being OR was contested without comment. LadyofShalott 02:25, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
what is the matter with you.you have not time to correct a single word,but have enough time to incorrect it again.dont test me bro. you have no right to support wrong facts while you are a admin of a responsible site.do your duty with responsibility or find some another job. Paramsinghantaal (talk) 13:35, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
Merging of Ramdasia page with Chamar pageWhat do you think of merging the Ramdasia page with the Chamar page? FYI my old I'd was bal537 but I am no longer using that id because someone was able to find my personal information using that Id. TimesGerman (talk) 02:52, 23 March 2013 (UTC) TimesGerman (talk) 02:53, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
Page on HemuI appreciate your efforts on page Hemu. You did a great job on 21st Sept. 2012 trimming the page from 30754 bytes to 25770 bytes spending 10-12 hours. Also you had asked for references at 11 places, which I had given promptly. I have always put information on any page which is well supported since 2008. Hemu was the first page I worked on and major contents are uploaded by me. Since your last overhauling of page I am only managing it, not adding much, as page still has about 26000 bytes after adding citations. However, frequent edits continue. Could I request you to allow edits by experienced editors only ? Thanking you once again for taking care of page. Sudhirkbhargava (talk) 05:22, 23 March 2013 (UTC) this
Amitabh Bachchan controversiesHello Satish, I see that the links/description added by me has been removed again. At the outset I would like to mention that the purpose of the content is not to malign but to bring forth to the general public facts which ascribe to the life of Mr. Bachchan. He is on record clarifying his position on the matter said and the information is a very important fact of his personal life. I believe hiding this fact from the general public, ostensibly due to the information "not being new" is not in good taste. His alleged involvement in a matter as serious as instigation of riots deserves mention on his public profile and if subsequently exonerated, can also be mentioned. The general public needs to be informed of all aspects pertaining to Mr Bachchans life. Not just those which sing paeans about his stature. This is a user contributed and moderated community and needs the support of all members.. DeeptiKhosla (talk) 22:50, 23 March 2013 (UTC)DeeptiKhosla
Re: Indic name![]() Message added by Tito Dutta (contact) 23:21, 23 March 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Wikipedia:WikiProject India/Talkback}} template. Re: Warangal![]() Message added 00:29, 25 March 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template. ANI noticeHello. There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Caste sanctions enforcement request. Thank you. Qwyrxian (talk) 04:02, 25 March 2013 (UTC) New article ThigalaAs is often the case, WP:UNCAT is a treasure trove for shoddy India articles. I ran across yet another one where the presence of "Kshatriya" in the first sentence got my spidey-sense tingling. Turns out, surprise of surprises, that it's a caste of flower and vegetable gardeners who around 1900 suddenly started calling themselves Vannia Kula Kshatriya (I made a stub for that term too). Standing by for the backlash when the original editor notes the clearly cited fact that in 1994 the Karnatak gov't declared the Thigala a Backwards Class... MatthewVanitas (talk) 18:28, 25 March 2013 (UTC) A barnstar for you!
HorsefieldI was confused by that edit too so I googled it and it seems to be sometimes with an e and sometimes not. this website says the e was lost when it was Latinized but then they also say he was a Scottish shoemaker :( I've emailed them pointing out the mistake. Richerman (talk) 18:24, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
Hi. Sitush.. can you have a look at it. A user has added a new section to article Punjab,_India about Drug_Problems in Punjab. I am with an opinion that it should not be added into this article, but the other editor insists. Can you give your opinion. --Vigyani (talk) 07:55, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
Urgent Attention towards unprecedented biasThe article Jagannath Mishra contains unprecedented unsourced data that has been fabricated without authentic citations and amounts of excessive bias and blatant promotion of an individual by overexaltment.Kindly review the same and take bonafide measures to ensure this 'self publicised' work is backed by facts not 'promotional content' — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.98.121.44 (talk) 16:58, 29 March 2013 (UTC) I don't understandThis edit...the source and page etc are all there?SH 21:05, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
Take a look atthe history of Agamudayar...I always feel foolish when I do this. I reverted one set of edits, but didn't actually look at the article, thus missing the obviously massive, problematic content. Qwyrxian (talk) 05:00, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
Talkback![]() Message added Hari7478 (talk) 23:38, 30 March 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template. Information on "Iyengar community prior to Srivaishnavism". By the way, please include Thenkalai in your watchlist. Thank you. Hari7478 (talk) 23:38, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
Really?This is how you want to do it? (Lowkeyvision (talk) 16:00, 31 March 2013 (UTC))
RamdasiaHi Sitush, I've reverted your edits because I think someone is trying to WP:GAME Wikipedia. I've been reading my books on Indian castes and Ramdasia, Ravidasia and Chamar are different. I'm going to add verifiable quotes, and not the gibberish someone added there. Watch this space. Thanks SH 16:21, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
Narendra ModiI have removed your edits from the page as it was obvious POV pushing (positive discrimination, until 2012 when it became politically expedient to do so) also it was not even in context. --sarvajna (talk) 06:55, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
(edit conflict)Well I thought we need to be neutral here not anti- or pro something, glad that accepted that you are not neutral also I am not sure what you are referring to when you say racist policies. Also the second source has much of what congress thinks and what that journalist thinks. Like I said before, the section is about Personal Life not what Modi did during elections --sarvajna (talk) 07:26, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
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