User talk:TheLittleDuke

Speedy deletion nomination of DoABitOfGood.com

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A tag has been placed on DoABitOfGood.com requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, you can place a request here. AlexTiefling (talk) 23:02, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

May 2014

Welcome to Wikipedia. It might not have been your intention, but you removed a speedy deletion tag from DoABitOfGood.com, a page you have created yourself. If you believe the page should not be deleted, you may contest the deletion by clicking on the button that says: Contest this speedy deletion and appears inside the speedy deletion notice. This will allow you to make your case on the article's talk page. Administrators will consider your reasoning before deciding what to do with the page. Thank you. Tutelary (talk) 23:07, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

• In its current form, DoABitOfGood.com (or Doabibitofgood.com) may not exist as an article, because it fails speedy deletion criterion A7. An article about a corporation or web site must make an credible assertion of significance or importance; being the first BitCoin-based fundraising corporation is not a sufficient assertion. —C.Fred (talk) 23:40, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Hello, TheLittleDuke. We welcome your contributions to Wikipedia, but if you are affiliated with some of the people, places or things you have written about on Wikipedia, you may have a conflict of interest.

All editors are required to comply with Wikipedia's neutral point of view content policy. People who are very close to a subject often have a distorted view of it, which may cause them to inadvertently edit in ways that make the article either too flattering or too disparaging. People with a close connection to a subject are not absolutely prohibited from editing about that subject, but they need to be especially careful about ensuring their edits are verified by reliable sources and writing with as little bias as possible.

If you are very close to a subject, here are some ways you can reduce the risk of problems:

• Avoid or exercise great caution when editing or creating articles related to you, your organization, or its competitors, as well as projects and products they are involved with.
• Avoid linking to the Wikipedia article or website of your organization in other articles (see Wikipedia:Spam).
• Exercise great caution so that you do not accidentally breach Wikipedia's content policies.

Please familiarize yourself with relevant content policies and guidelines, especially those pertaining to neutral point of view, verifiability of information, and autobiographies.

For information on how to contribute to Wikipedia when you have a conflict of interest, please see our frequently asked questions for organizations. Thank you. Acroterion (talk) 23:47, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Notice

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Possible_Legal_Threat Thank you.

Speedy deletion nomination of DoABitOfGood.com

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute to Wikipedia, introducing inappropriate pages, such as DoABitOfGood.com, is not in accordance with our policies. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. The page has been nominated for deletion, in accordance with Wikipedia's criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. - MrX 02:55, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

May 2014

Your recent edits to DoABitOfGood.com could give Wikipedia contributors the impression that you may consider legal or other "off-wiki" action against them, or against Wikipedia itself. Please note that making such threats on Wikipedia is strictly prohibited under Wikipedia's policies on legal threats and civility. Users who make such threats may be blocked. If you have a dispute with the content of any page on Wikipedia, please follow the proper channels for dispute resolution. Please be sure to comment on content, not contributors, and where possible make specific suggestions for changes supported by reliable independent sources and focusing especially on verifiable errors of fact. Thank you. - MrX 02:58, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Legal Action

Do you or your company intend to pursue legal action against the Wikimedia Foundation for the deletion of the Wikipedia entry on your company's article? Tutelary (talk) 03:00, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

We have followed proper channels, respecting system prompts to engage in dispute, however that requires a equitable treatment from your side - wholesale deleting of our content is not equitable. We are willing to refine the content to your standards but we have to start somewhere TheLittleDuke (talk) 03:08, 27 May 2014 (UTC)TheLittleDuke

Wikipedia has notability standards, and the article did not pass the corporate notability standard. That's not the main problem in this. The main problem is that legal threats are strictly prohibited, and making them in any context is grounds for a block. Given your text of May 27, 2014 doabitofgood.com sends a "cease and desist" to Wikimedia Foundation regarding the arbitrary and capriciapus removal of its entry by certain named individuals. The company is a registered American corporation and is entitled to the same entry rights as "overstock.com" on the page, did you or your company sincerely send a cease and desist notice to the Wikimedia foundation? Tutelary (talk) 03:13, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

• There are editors on Wikipedia who are willing to work with you to see if we can craft an article that will meet Wikipedia guidelines (including WP:Notability and WP:Verifiability). However, you'll need to make clear that you do not intend to pursue any off-Wikipedia legal action, and you need to stop creating inappropriate stub articles like Do a Bit of Good. —C.Fred (talk) 03:20, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

I have repeatledy asked for equitable treatment afforded any US/Minnesota based corporation ... i get that we have ".com" in our corporate name and that might be a red flag, and yet there are all manner of for profit and certainly questionable businesses represented in wikipedia (ashelymadison ??). We need some time to refine the content...thats what wiki's afford users. If you stop obliterating our content before we have the opportunity to work together to establish the noteworthy nature of our "virtuous cycle" of giving I think we can de-escalete the situation such that everyone wins. We just want a fair representation for our global contribution and an equitable opportunity along with other equivalent entities to do so without the threat or duress of having our content deleted. Calling our stub article related to a very common British aphorism "inappropriate" is just insensitive TheLittleDuke (talk) 03:34, 27 May 2014 (UTC)TheLittleDuke

The thing is, that you can't compare your article to other articls. Just doing a quick google search, I don't believe there is very many reliable sources demonstrating that there is notability for 'Do a bit of good', though I did find two press releases, and one which I'm unsure about as a reliable source. http://www.broadwayworld.com/bwwgeeks/article/Givecoininfo-Announces-Partnership-with-Do-A-Bit-of-Good-Worlds-First-Bitcoin-Mining-Screensaver-20140520 is that source.

• If you wish to refine the content without the possibility of it getting speedily deleted, you can create the content in a WP:DRAFT. It will not be visible to the majority of the users, but it can be moved to the mainspace (where it would be) whenever you are done. Alternatively, it would be submitted for review but given the large backlog, could probably be a month or so before it is reviewed.
• Again, I am going to ask you whether you or your company has comitted any legal action against the Wikimedia foundation. You can either take legal action, or you can edit Wikipedia, not both. This is due to the animosity it creates, that a user is under threat of coercion of a threat of legal action against them.
• The ultimate authority of whether your company/website/whatever gets an article, is its notability. The notability guideline for corporations is the requirement to meet. Tutelary (talk) 03:46, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

You do realize that equitable treatment means holding this company to the notability standards for corporations the same as any other company is, correct? 03:40, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

PMFJI, but as far as I can see, the page you are creating does not do anything to establish your organization's WP:NOTABILITY. WP is not an indiscriminate catalog of everything. Yes, WP includes pages describing a great many commercial organizations. That some of these might be "questionable" in your opinion is beside the point. What matters is that those organizations are notable according to WP's policy. There is a particular guideline page for notability of organizations and companies here. Briefly, you need to establish your org's notability with verifiable WP:REFerences to reliable sources, showing that it has

"been the subject of significant coverage in reliable, independent secondary sources."

Your claim that yours is the first organization of its kind, or that it is notable because it is the first, is not sufficient. Nor is the argument "we need some time to refine the content" compelling, as a great many pages are created from scratch with suitable references in the first "save". Granted that that is a difficult way to do things... Have you considered creating and working on your page in a "sandbox"? I can create one for you if you don't know how. Jeh (talk) 04:12, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

(I was composing and editing the above while several additions to this page were made. As such it is redundant with some of the above, which were saved before I saved mine. I'm leaving this as I composed it, with redundancies left in. Not meaning to pile on; I think I've provided some links that may help you.) Jeh (talk) 04:17, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Do a Bit of Good

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Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. This is a notice to inform you that a tag has been placed on Do a Bit of Good requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, you can place a request here. NeilN ^{talk to me} 03:46, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

May 2014

You have been blocked indefinitely from editing for making legal threats, and attempting to use Wikipedia as an advertising platform. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding the following text below this notice: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}. However, you should read the guide to appealing blocks first.  Yunshui ^雲_水 08:22, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Unblock request

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

TheLittleDuke (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

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Request reason:

I have NOT engaged in making any threats, legal or otherwise. We are merely trying to engage in dialogue in order to establish the initial corporate body page about a legal entity that has made and is making noteworthy contributions in the area of charitable giving related to crypto-currencies -- Wikimedia Foundation has been a direct beneficiary of that as I have personally made annual cash donations and several large Bitcoin donations to the cause. Specifically our company has solved "the receipt" problem associated with crypto-currency donations among other novel inventions -- some of which are patent-pending. If there is is some de minimus content or formatting requirement we will absolutely comply. If there is a neutral third party we can engage or one of your editors as was suggested below to produce and manage the content we would certainly entertain engaging them. There is no intent or desire to "advertise or promote" and I fail to understand the "battleground mentality" tag Yunshui refers to?? I'm asking simply for the opportunity to establish an equitable treatment to the other Minnesota based corporations that are currently represented on Wikipedia and to be held to the same standard that they are. We are not asking for any special treatment. If we need X number of news articles written so be it. If we need to engage a third-party to develop and manage the content -- suggest some. I want to re-iterate that as of this moment we have NOT drafted nor served any notice on Wikimedia Foundation. Now this specific "user blocking" on your part seems VERY antagonistic and I would ask you to sincerely consider the optics on that. It would seem to me that the public theatre is not the place for us to resolve this? I hope cooler heads will prevail. It's unfortunate that an overzealous policy of immediately deleting content such as ours has brought us here. It would seem to me that a better use-case would be a "slow-start" publishing model whereby content is provisionally approved and then allowed to be refined -- put a big caveat banner on it -- or create a submission model whereby content is assigned an editor to work with authors. Otherwise, it would appear you guys have a nightmare time of "whack-a-mole" and that can't be very satisfying? For my part i this misunderstanding I am sorry. I hope we can resolve and move past this quickly. Sincerely, David V Duccini TheLittleDuke (talk) 12:39, 27 May 2014 (UTC)TheLittleDuke

Decline reason:

Per below. — Daniel Case (talk) 17:10, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

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If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Do note that Wikipedia has a zero tolerance policy regarding any form of legal threats, such as this one. Any editor who even hints at taking legal action is automatically blocked regardless of whether the threat is genuine or not. If you wish to have your editing privileges reinstated, you must rescind such legal threats wholly and completely. —Farix (t | c) 13:03, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

I'd like to point out that the Wikimedia Foundation does not accept Bitcoin Lixxx235 (talk) 15:46, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I would point out that donations to Wikipedia do not give any exemption from the rules and policies of the site, in whatever currency they are made, and Wikimedia do say they do not accept any crypto-currency.. Also, I would point out that legal action does not need to have commenced for WP:NLT to come into play. Thirdly, I would ask you to read WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, and accept that there is no 'right' in law to have a page on Wikipedia. If you feel that any other company articles do not meet our policies, please let us know which and we will look into it. But if yours is not felt to pass the requirements, the existence of others similarly not suitable cannot give yours a right to be here. It can lead us to delete any others that are found not to belong. Peridon (talk) 15:54, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

In reviewing both the existing content of this talk page and the material you deleted I see that two different "slow start" mechanisms were proposed to you: Creating a WP:DRAFT page, or creating a WP:SANDBOX page. You apparently ignored these suggestions. Jeh (talk) 18:23, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who accepted the request.

TheLittleDuke (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

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Request reason:

This is my first WikiPedia entry so I was unfamiliar with how the editing worked -- it seemed expedient to clear the page to continue especially given that the content, in my opinion unfairly characterizes our legally formed US corporation as merely "web-content". I know that the backend has revision control so I just expected that to supply the historical exchange.

Furthermore I was frustrated that my edits were being summarily deleted within minutes of making changes -- ESPECIALLY since Wikipedia publicly advertises that EVERYONE may make contributions -- and the system actually prompts you to make new content. This experience suggests that there is a "Meritocracy" at work behind the scenes and I don't think casts a very good light on Wikipedia.

My prospective comment "cease and desist" may seem threatening it certainly wasn't my intention. I'm sure we have all said things offhand in a moment of frustration that had unintended consequences and I hope that we can put this all behind us and make equitable amends.

And for the record I'm not suggesting that my personal and corporate giving should in anyway afford any preferential treatment, I was merely providing context around what how some of our contributions are supporting the core missions of non-profits including Wikimedia. "Noteworthy" seems to have a different standard of care depending on who's using the term.

And while one editor has suggested Wikimedia may not officially accept Bitcoin donations we know for a fact that they have indeed benefited from charitable giving campaigns that raised Bitcoins and then turned into cash for the organization. It has also been disclosed that Wales has publicly announced his intent to explore it. (http://techcrunch.com/2014/03/11/wikipedia-co-founder-jimmy-wales-accidentally-starts-a-bitcoin-donation-campaign-for-wikipedia/)

Let's re-start this conversation from a place of mutual respect and move on shall we? I know we all have more important matters to attend to instead of arguing over this misunderstanding.

I am again asking to have my personal account to be unblocked and would like to be assigned an editor to work with to develop our content to Wikipedia standards and agree that I will not create new content while working with the editor either offline -- in a sandbox -- or ideally via the "Talk" page.

TheLittleDuke (talk) 12:32, 28 May 2014 (UTC)TheLittleDuke

Accept reason:

After further discussion, per below. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 01:55, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Now, I'm not an admin, so I can't speak for them, but the blocking policy states that blocks are preventive, not punitive, and that "indefinite" does not mean "infinite", it means however long it takes you to get your act together. This] is the ANI post on you. If you want to look at the problems as they stand right now:

• Legal threat made
• Clearly not here to build an encyclopedia
• Using Wikipedia for advertising or promotion
• Battleground mentality

The fixes would be:

• Rescind the legal threat
• Probably use 2nd chance procedures
• Understand that Wikimedia is not legally required, as a private organization, to have an article about you, to allow you to edit, or even to allow you to view the site. How would it sound if you went to Microsoft and demanded that they have an article about you? Note that Wikimedia does not intend to exercise the right not to allow people to edit very often. I'm just saying that you have no legal right to anything on Wikipedia, except the right to fork and the right to leave.
  

I recommend you read WP:EYNTK. It contains very helpful information about Wikipedia editing policy. Thanks. Lixxx235 (talk) 14:08, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Actually, TheLittleDuke has raised a very good option. Your willingness "to be assigned an editor to work with to develop our content to Wikipedia standards and agree that I will not create new content while working with the editor either offline -- in a sandbox -- or ideally via the "Talk" page", or mentorship would be a very good way for you to come to grips with WP and all the little trips and traps that snare new editors all the time. I would propose a slight modification to Lixxx235's fixes to be.

• Unambiguously state that no legal threat was intended. (Please read WP:NLT)
• Agree not to create, attempt to create, induce another editor to create the article about their organisation. (Please read WP:COI so that you might understand why, WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS may also clarify some of the misunderstandings that you came across with regards to other corporations and charities.)
• Agree to undertake mentorship with an experienced editor (as linked before WP:MENTOR)

The various other issues that have cropped up are fairly standard for new editors and, until the legal threat cropped up, would have been treated as such. Once you come to understand how things work here, it will be entirely up to you how you choose to contribute here. Blackmane (talk) 14:42, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

I am an admin and both Lixxx235 and Blackmane make very sensible points. I would consider unblocking you if you were willing to work through something like mentorship, agree not to edit the article yourself because of your conflict of interest, and - most importantly - unambiguously state that you withdraw any legal threats made on Wikipedia, Twitter or elsewhere. Whatever your intention, we've had bad experiences with people taking legal action before hence our zero-tolerance policy. How does that sound? Olaf Davis (talk) 16:07, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

My one cent.

Hey TheLittleDuke,

After you've went through the starting guides/mentor program, and start to write your articles, I would like to point out the only notable source I've been able to find on your company is this link. Maybe it would be wise to use that one in the article on doabitofgood. I'm a (sortof) new editor here and I found the wikipedia adventure very usefull. Good luck! Tomato 33 (talk) 15:08, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

I'm afraid that is a blog feed post by 'PR.com Newswire' and looks very unlikely to pass as a reliable independent source. 'PR' and 'blog' are mostly killers. Blogs only count if they are blogged by certain notable and reliable people. Don't ask me who - I don't think I've come across one yet. Peridon (talk) 20:52, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

My Oh Two

I was referring mainly to the The Saint Paul Pioneer Press article about us which is in syndication at this point by a well known and respected technical writer, Julio Ojeda-Zappata.

http://www.twincities.com/business/ci_25202113/bitcoin-transitioning-from-obscurity-commonplace

And yes there was a news release related to the Givecoin Foundation partnership announcement, however Cointelegraph.com contacted us for additional information and comment.

Other than using "legally formed corporation" -- I had merely asked that whomever was instantly deleting our page to cease and desist -- also a legal term.

Trust is based largely on two things: Competence & Intent. I always try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt by "assuming good intentions".

I really don't appreciate Editor "Yunshui" borderline defamatory remarks about my character ("battleground mentality" is pretty inflammatory -- perhaps s/he is not a native english speaker so again I'm willing to assume good intentions here. I would hope that we can be adult enough to allow for respectful dissent?

I worked in a library while in college and have the highest regards for the role that you all play in helping to vet the truth.

So I will repeat my assertion:

At no time was it my intent to suggest or imply that I was threatening legal action against Wikimedia foundation or its employees / editors.

Given the optics on all the so called "dot com" businesses that are represented within Wikipedia combined with its face value invitation for "anyone to create content" combined with the other various Minnesota based businesses who have ostensibly fact-based/checked pages here - AND given the syndicated mainstream press about our company I felt it was perfectly reasonable to establish a page for the community to refine.

I hope we can close the case on this misunderstanding as I would VERY MUCH like to help contribute to Wikipedia on a more technical level, given 20+ years of startup and business experience combined with advanced degrees in both Software Engineering and an MBA I think I could be an asset to cause.

Please sign talk page posts with four tildes ~~~~ - it makes life a lot easier for everyone. OK - so far as I am concerned that takes care of the legal threat. Being a dot com isn't an issue as such. and I'm not sure how that got into things. Speedy deletion is a fact of life on Wikipedia within certain criteria. Please see WP:CSD for more detail, and look at the talk page to see how the criteria are arrived at. So far as I am aware, Yunshui is a native speaker of British English like me. He definitely doesn't speak Chinese. 'Battleground mentality' or 'battleground attitude' is a not infrequent term here, and is used in reference to people that have been told clearly but who seem to be refusing to accept what they are told, no matter how many have told them. Peridon (talk) 21:37, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up on the 4x ~ I have already apologized repeatedly for our part in this. I fail to see how it serves anyone's purpose to continue to beat me up with it. Was I irritated that SOMEONE (and honestly I have no idea who may or may not have the ability to remove content -- that's not entirely clear) was deleting content -- for all I know it was someone with a vendetta or a competitor -- you read stories in the press about people making false claims and editing competitor pages all the time. Pressing "Save Page" was clearly poor judgment. I've learned my lesson. Can we just move on? TheLittleDuke (talk) 22:10, 28 May 2014 (UTC)TheLittleDuke

As I said, I'm not an admin. However, seeing this post, if I was one, upon consulting the blocking admin, I'd be inclined to accept the unblock request, pursuant to certain conditions. My suggestions:

• Unblocked
• Must agree to a mentor, mentor may unilaterally revert any edits you make, and levy sanctions similar to Arbs discretionary ones
• These restrictions expire at recommendation of mentor, or after 2 weeks without any reverts or sanctions by mentor

Just my two cents --Lixxx235 (talk) 22:29, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict)

I can understand your concerns. For a new user who is unfamilar with Wikipedia and who has preconceived ideas of how they think it will work, the realities of policies, guidelines, and process can be a bit of a shock. By viewing the "history" tab at the top of this talk page, it appears a couple users attempted to leave "welcome" messages to try to provide links to pages with information or where questions could be brought up - but I imagine they were deleted in your frustration rather than being seen for what they were intended to provide.

Regarding the legal threat - you are now claiming it was never intended to imply legal action may be taken. While Peridon is comfortable with the status of the legal threat. I would feel more comfortable if you acknowledged and posted a retraction of it. Please note that any admin can view deleted pages, and your post this deleted edit which stated "May 27, 2014 doabitofgood.com sends a "cease and desist" to Wikimedia Foundation regarding the arbitrary and capriciapus removal of its entry by certain named individuals." as well as this Twitter post appear to be contradictory to your comment above that no threat of legal action was meant to be implied.

Please note, by requesting retraction, I am not trying to beat you up over this - I just want to be certain that the issue is fully cleared up for purposes of editing Wikipedia. Of course, if you do feel that you need to pursue legal recourse, you can (nothing can take away your rights to that option) - it's simply that it's against policy to permit editing Wikipedia while that threat stands or is ongoing through legal channels. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 22:34, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict):There are (confusingly) different forms of deletion. You and any editor can remove text or other stuff from a page. But it's not gone. The next passing editor (or in the case of page blanking it might be a bot) can put it back by reverting. Admins (like me, Barek, Yunshui and Daniel Case) can delete whole pages. Any admin can see them, but anyone else sees only a red lined explanation of why it went. We can also use 'revdel' which hides certain edits on a page from general view. Any admin can read them, though. For stuff to go even further away, certain very highly trusted people called Oversighters can hide stuff even from admins. That's for very dangerous stuff, like a 10 year old's mobile phone number and address... If a page has been deleted, it's by an admin and the reason is on the red lined bit. No admin will delete something for business competition reasons. They'd be de-sysopped (equivalent to clerical defrocking or military cashiering) very quickly. Competitors may (and do ) interfere with articles. Patrollers and page watchers usually sort this out within the hour. People don't realise that we have a network of patrollers and watchers. The admins are the next stage - we monitor the tagging by the patrollers etc. And normally we tag things we find rather than deleting out of hand - that way at least two people have agreed on a speedy deletion. Peridon (talk) 22:44, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

One Tweet Away

Already one tweet ahead of you from my personal account as well as deleting any "untoward" previous tweets -- with the express understanding that mutual respect cuts both ways. It appears a little duplicitous to claim that we can not make a basis in equity while simultaneously claiming legal standing for doing or not doing things. This is my opinion. I have a pretty thick skin and hope that you do too. Dissent does not mean disrespect. Look guys, I worked for fortune 50 banks -- I understand very dearly "reputational risk" front and center -- its why in part while I was deeply offended by the outward appearance of defamatory statements about my personal character. But I got over it. Asked nicely and someone appears to have removed the "battleground mentality" tag associated with my page. Thank you. Now...can I have my sandbox back? TheLittleDuke (talk) 00:00, 29 May 2014 (UTC)TheLittleDuke

Summary

This discussion has dragged on for ages now. I'd like to summarize this. Note that this is, again, a (Non-administrator comment). If you explicitly rescind the legal threat, then you will be unblocked, pursuant to the following condition: You agree to have a mentor, who may revert any edit of yours and levy any arbitration sanction, excluding blocking or banning. It is recommended that this mentor put in a "no edit to mainspace without prior approval" type thing. This will be in effect for two weeks, and may be extended by a consensus of admins. This offer must have an endorsement(preferably multiple endorsements) from (an) admin(s) to have effect. --Lixxx235 (talk) 23:11, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

I actually don't think they'll be unblocked. They were making more remarks about Wikipedia and the tweets stating that they were sending a cease and desist letter still have not been clarified by OP, only denied that there was any legal action to begin with. Tutelary (talk) 23:23, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

OK, then in that case the mentor should have discretionary power to block then. Just a suggestion. --Lixxx235 (talk) 23:28, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Rereading it again, it actually says that they were telling the admin to 'cease and desist', as another word for 'Stop' but I'm not sure I buy that, given the tweets, again. Oh, and that he used specifically the word 'lawyer' in the tweets, as well.Tutelary (talk) 23:33, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

All "threats" of legal action are rescinded. You should understand the world has NO IDEA who has the ability to edit or delete content on Wikipedia. We hear story after story about rogue attacks on Wikipedia. I am delighted to see that someone has already removed the "battleground mentality" tag attached to my personal identity. That ostensibly is ALSO historically available? As far as I am concerned whatever notification of a cease and desist were accidentally posted and in no way reflect the intent and will of me. Again, let me ask you personally, have you never said something you later regretted? Some of you seem to act from a place that is somehow exempt of human foibles. Imagine how incredibly frustrating it might be to a first time user to be "openly welcomed" to create content within Wikipedia -- to be "prompted to create a page" and then only minutes after you do so to have it, and I do mean from all outward appearances arbitrarily deleted, labeled as only purely web-only content, when in fact you are writing what you believe are facts about a legally formed US corporation? Try and think back to the first article you ever wrote? Not awesome was it? People are absolutely free to seek the guidance of whatever counsel they deem best -- a lawyer is just a person versed in the law -- some of my best friends are lawyers -- for the love of reason just let it go -- what else do I have to do to prostrate myself before you? TheLittleDuke (talk) 23:46, 28 May 2014 (UTC)TheLittleDuke

I do very much believe you, and I believe there's an easy way to solve it; post a tweet saying that all legal threats are rescinded. Yes, I have. I believe that's what's happened here, that you truly regret it, it does have a Chilling_Effect on discussion. After that, I will very much endorse your unblock (though it doesn't really matter, an admin will make that call regardless), though I'm sure after you post the tweet, it'll likely be in your favor, combined with the suitable and civil comments and discussion on this talk page. Tutelary (talk) 00:02, 29 May 2014 (UTC) Striking out comments per my own comments below Tutelary (talk) 01:42, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Z State

We have tweeted and posted positively both as the body corporate https://www.facebook.com/doabitofgood and personally https://www.facebook.com/david.duccini

I would prefer if this entire page simply be deleted or archived such that we can start from a clean slate, free of acrimony.

I'm looking forward to working with a mentor to allow us to post a factual account of our contributions to make the world a better place (Later this summer we'll be kicking off a crowd-funding bid to convert to either a "B-Corp" or a proper non-profit)

Until then we have more than a bit of good to do -- beyond helping puppies and kitties get adopted we were just contacted by a group in Botswana to help rebuild a youth center. Check our Twitter page or Facebook for info.

I hope you follow along as we bring about a "virtuous cycle" in charitable giving whereby the output of one act of good feeds into the next.

TheLittleDuke (talk) 00:27, 29 May 2014 (UTC)TheLitttleDuke

I'm sorry, I don't see a tweet from here saying that you fully rescind any legal threats. All you've said is that it was a "misunderstanding". I hope I'm not interpreting this wrongly. Cheers. In case my opinion means anything, I fully endorse a conditional request for unblock upon a tweet from that account stating that you fully rescind any legal threats. I'd be willing to be the tutor for you, but I'm really new though, and someone with that kind of delegated authority should be experienced. And that I'm currently tutoring three other people, as well as showing 3 irl freindls how to edit, so I might not get back to you quickly. --Lixxx235 (talk) 00:34, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Also, see WP:NOBLE --Lixxx235 (talk) 00:36, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Lixxx235, I do think it's best that we let this be. Let the reviewing admin review all the comments, the ANI thread, the block, the twitter account, facebook pages, and the discussion about the user and make the choice. I think imposing our own burden on him (though we may think it's reasonable) is causing some undue stress and is possibly bitey. If the reviewing admin sees something unclear, they'll put forth an official request for clarity. Right now, our own requests were merely requests for favor in OP's direction. 'I'll support unblock if you do X' while being civil and understanding, I think is somewhat detrimental in this situation. Tutelary (talk) 01:41, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. --Lixxx235 (talk) 01:51, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Do you really think it's in anyone's best interest to introduce, publicly the concept of a "legal threat" ? You can already see that the @DoABitOfGood account is getting attention from some of the ALT-COIN bases which we have since downplayed. All that was socialized out previously to my very limited set of followers was regrettably contacting my attorney for some non-disclosed reason, which has since been deleted. My recommendation is to let sleeping dogs lay where there are. TheLittleDuke (talk) 01:32, 29 May 2014 (UTC)TheLittleDuke

I agree with you on this point. I think removing the tweets in question and staying silent about the matter on Twitter, while making the apologies and retractions on Wikipedia, is the appropriate course. (Otherwise, it leave people unfamiliar with Wikipedia and WP:NLT wondering just what was going on.) —C.Fred (talk) 02:15, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

I have also sent a request to the blocking administrator for his input. —C.Fred (talk) 02:28, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Sorry 'bout the bitey behavior. --Lixxx235 (talk) 03:38, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

LOL -- It's all good from my side -- thanks for owning it -- no harm no foul -- I have pretty thick skin as long as it doesn't get personal TheLittleDuke (talk) 03:42, 29 May 2014 (UTC)TheLittleDuke

I see that and I appreciate that -- I'm genuinely encouraged that there is a rational set of guidance enumerated essentially as a "code of conduct" such as WP:NLT and WP:BITE -- that it is permissible to disagree as well as call foul when someone feels slighted for their contribution or engage in appropriate dialogue where potentially offensive or defamatory statements are perceived. It takes village to raise a child -- even if that child turns out to be the village idiot :-) TheLittleDuke (talk) 02:33, 29 May 2014 (UTC)TheLittleDuke

FWIW Lixxx235 I've reviewed WP:NOBLE -- and as far as I am concerned we're still still laser focused on demonstrating WP:Notability TheLittleDuke (talk) 01:38, 29 May 2014 (UTC)TheLittleDuke

Progress is the Product

It has been over 24 hours since the last admin comment, is this getting anywhere? TheLittleDuke, are you still interested in getting unblocked? Just wondering --Lixxx235 (talk) 03:14, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Yes of course -- nothing has fundamentally changed with my desire to do good in the world -- to abide by the Wikipedia community standards and to hopefully leave the campsite in a little better condition than when I found it TheLittleDuke (talk) 03:16, 30 May 2014 (UTC)TheLittleDuke

I recommend that you use the {{adminhelp}} template, although I'm not totally sure whether it's a good idea. That usually gets more help more quickly. --Lixxx235 (talk) 03:23, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

It's all good -- I'm sure they have more important things to fret over...FYI, our paid FB promo on "our reconnecting with Wikipedia" reached nearly 13,000 people! -- however I'm increasingly irritated that Yunshui's "battleground mentality" characterization continues to show up attached to my account -- my patience is wearing pretty thin there since I have already informed WMF several times that I find it offensive and borderline defamatory. I'll chill for another day or so TheLittleDuke (talk) 04:09, 30 May 2014 (UTC)TheLittleDuke

I don't believe there's a way to modify a block summary, unless it is oversighted. Don't quote me though. As for the merits of the request, please see WP:BATTLE and WP:CIVIL. The tag was not meant to be defammatory, and continued use of the word may be considered a legal threat per WP:NLT, the relevant section being: For example, if you repeatedly assert that another editor's comments are "defamatory" or "libelous", that editor might interpret this as a threat to sue for defamation, even if this is not intended. To avoid this frequent misunderstanding, use less charged wording (such as “That statement about me is not true and I hope it will be corrected for the following reasons...”) to avoid the perception that you are threatening legal action for defamation. I don't mean to be imposing or bitey, just wanted to let you know. --Lixxx235 (talk) 04:30, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

This is precisely the problem with a mono-culture -- it tries to fit everything into its own taxonomy. The Real World is much more diverse -- and while you may cite "well around here we don't find it offensive and if you say it is we'll think you discourteous for pointing it out" -- the fact of the matter is *I* find it offensive. Unless you are a respected degree'd clinical psychologist you have absolutely no right to label anyone's "mentality" -- it's absurd. I strongly encourage you to find some way to removing before I start socializing out my discomfort with it. That's NOT a legal threat. It's free speech. TheLittleDuke (talk) 04:39, 30 May 2014 (UTC)TheLittleDuke

Okay, I won't wade into this too much, but I'd like to clear up some things. I understand that "battlefield mentality" may be very offensive, and upon being unblocked(which may still be declined, we'll see) you may want to open a community discussion on the phrase. That's the good thing about Wikipedia- it's changeable. No comment about the "before I start socializing out my discomfort about it" sentence, though it can easily be viewed as a threat- not legal, just a threat to say something negative about Wikipedia socially. --Lixxx235 (talk) 05:04, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

If I state "Hey one of the editors at Wikipedia have publicly tagged my personal account with this phrase and I don't like it" -- that's not saying saying anything negative about Wikipedia. In order for a system especially a society to function correctly, it MUST BE SAFE for its participants to "pull the chain" when a defect is detected (aka from the Toyota Production Method) -- you can't punish someone for they way they feel about something. How about the word "besmirch" instead of "defamatory"? I feel that making these kind of attributions besmirches my good name. Using legals words does not imply action. We ought to treat them as words and not give them so much power over us, IMHO (BTW, if you want to continue our philosophical dialogue "off-page" feel free to drop me an email: dduccini at gmail dot com) TheLittleDuke (talk) 11:55, 30 May 2014 (UTC)TheLittleDuke

Please note that I am trying to support this request. Thanks. --Lixxx235 (talk) 05:05, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Would you be willing to blank this section? Thanks Lixxx235 (talk) 05:31, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

By the way, this isn't a trick question, you are permitted to remove messages from your talk page Lixxx235 (talk) 06:01, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Let's see if my blanking out worked TheLittleDuke (talk) 11:41, 30 May 2014 (UTC)TheLittleDuke

It appears to have worked. Don't sweat the urgency of the unblocking -- it's perfecting reasonable to have a "cool-down" period with mis-steps -- think about a progressive delay with a password entry mechanism :-) TheLittleDuke (talk) 11:44, 30 May 2014 (UTC)TheLittleDuke

Also, there are more than 1400 admins, I'm sure one of them may be willing to look this over. The adminhelp template doesn't look like its "URGENT HALP NEEDED QUICK QUICK WERE ON FIRE" stuff, it's just a "I'm looking for help from an admin". Lixxx235 (talk) 14:48, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

NOTE: I've put in a request to WP:ANI for the block to be reviewed now that the legal threats have been rescinded. —Farix (t | c) 17:06, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

• All right, I'm going to take you at your word. You retracted the legal threat, so that aspect is and has been fine; the other aspect of your block was the repeated promotional editing. I'm not totally sure that you really get where we're going with this part of it, but I'll give you the chance to learn. The deal is that "notability", as Wikipedia defines it, primarily means coverage in reliable, independent sources (which is embodied by the general notability guideline; at the end of the day, Wikipedia can only reflect what has been reported in reliable sources (since that's the only way an encyclopedia written by many anonymous people can have any claim for correctness), and the articles you were writing just weren't showing the sources required to demonstrate Wikipedia-style notability. That's the real problem; writing about a company and all the good it has done without any backing in reliable sources looks promotional to an outsider, even if, from an insider's perspective, it appears to be plainly factual. We cannot write things into an article if they haven't been discussed in reliable sources, and if a subject doesn't have any reliable sources, well, we can't write about it. Your conflict of interest does make things more difficult too; not only is it hard to keep the objectivity required for judgements about things like notability, but it can also be difficult when one is so close to the subject to tell what needs a citation and what doesn't. That's why editing with a COI, while not strictly forbidden, is strongly discouraged.

  Anyway, here's the drill: while I'm going to unblock you, the articles you've made previously have been salted against recreation (basically meaning that only an admin can create it). I would recommend trying to participate in Wikipedia in other ways while you're here, but it is possible for you to still create a draft of your article as outlined here. While the page is a draft, it won't be a "real" article (meaning that it won't show up in searches, won't be linked to from other articles, and so on), but that will at least give you time to work on it. When you feel it's ready, you can submit it to the Articles for Creation process, where another user will review it. (I'm not going to lie to you though; the AfC process is usually heavily backlogged, it can take days or even weeks for an article to get reviewed. Since we're all just volunteers, Wikipedia tends to be a slow process.) You can also ask for other users to help you while you're working on your draft; indeed, that's probably a good idea. The help desk or perhaps the Teahouse might be helpful there. If the article passes AfC, then an admin can help you move it into mainspace. Again, my searches for sources on your company turned up nothing that was reliable, thorough, and independent of the subject (which are the three main criteria that define a reliable source, so to be honest I don't think that you'll be able to find enough to write an article, but if you insist, this is a way that you can try. Good luck, and happy editing. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 01:52, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Writ -- I would be happy to provide a scan of a printed copy of the article that was written about our company and published on 2/22/2014:

http://www.twincities.com/business/ci_25202113/bitcoin-transitioning-from-obscurity-commonplace

The St Paul Pioneer Press is a 100+ year old newspaper who I believe is also owned by the same company that owns the San Jose Mercury News

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_Area_News_Group

(Wikipedia reports it as a fact :P)

The article was syndicated and picked up by multiple mainstream media outlets in the US -- if that doesn't satisfy the "reliable" test, I can't imagine what would. Especially since the author is a well respected 20+ year veteran tech writer.

Regardless I appreciate that you are willing to extend me the courtesy of assuming good intentions. The original blocking editor has no idea what my intentions are or who I am. He seems to act from a place of impunity -- my opinion only. Leaders must "lead by example" -- our brief interchange such as it was lasted all of what? 30 minutes with my attempt to post and his deleting my content? I won't belabor the point if you won't. Let's close the case and move on to more productive matters.

My intent for the foreseeable future is to simply surf Wikipedia and correct typographical errors and comment on Talk pages. I will ask someone else to develop our content after a period of time. In the mean time I will use what limited power I have regained for good. TheLittleDuke (talk) 02:33, 31 May 2014 (UTC)TheLittleDuke

"My intent for the foreseeable future is to simply surf Wikipedia and correct typographical errors and comment on Talk pages." This is a good idea. My impression is that this is how most successful WP editors get started... if not typographical errors, then errors of fact in already-existing articles on subjects they're familiar with. This provides a gradual introduction to the WP policies, guidelines, and culture. I think that most new editors whose first (or even one-hundredth) contribution is to try to create a new article from scratch just haven't seen enough of WP to be competent—either at working with the WP community or at creating an article that follows WP policies and guidelines. Jeh (talk) 03:35, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Adopt-a-user

Now that you have been unblocked, I feel like I am free to comment here without being interpreted as making an unblock offer which I did not have the authority to do. Anyways, good job on that. I have a few tips for you:

• Set up archiving of your talk page by a bot, like User:lowercase sigmabot III].
• If you want, try to find a person to adopt you in WP:ADOPT.
• The ways of contributing to Wikipedia are boundless, but the ways that I've found personally are:

• Contributing to articles, content wise
• Copy editing and fixing spelling mistakes
• Fighting vandalism

Depending on which one you pick, you may want to ask different people to be your adopter. Or not- I didn't have an adopter, and I am where I am, though I personally think not getting adopted was a mistake.
If you want to do copyediting and fixing spelling mistakes, as you said in your above post, that is very valuable for Wikipedia. All three are, really. Just wanted to bring that to your attention, in case you weren't aware. Thanks. Lixxx235 (talk) 05:02, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

I too didn't have an adopter - and I don't adopt. However, feel free to ask about problems or oddities. One of my talk page stalkers will sort things out before I get there, and if not I'll know someone who can answer... One tip to start with is that some articles are in Brit English and some in US English. Subjects relevant to Brit English areas are usually in that mode. People get very annoyed when they are corrected wrongly.But some articles about American subjects may have been written by a Brit, and vice versa. In those cases, first language rules. Canadian articles present their own problems, due to Canadian English being neither Brit not US - or being both. Another minefield area is BC/AD vs BCE/CE. Stick to the first used in the article. I'm a CE user, but I follow what's used in the case under review. A warning: just like smoking tobacco, editing Wikipedia can be addictive. Difference is, it's better for you as the mental activity can help to stave off Alzheimers. And it's cheaper, and the governments haven't managed to tax it yet. What you see on Wikipedia when reading articles is only a fraction of what goes on. Peridon (talk) 20:10, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Completely agreed, especially on the addictive part. How do you like my new sig? Thanks, Lixxx235^{Got a complaint?} 14:37, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of User:TheLittleDuke

A tag has been placed on User:TheLittleDuke requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section U5 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to consist of writings, information, discussions, and/or activities not closely related to Wikipedia's goals. Please note that Wikipedia is not a free Web hosting service. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such pages may be deleted at any time.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Chrissymad ❯❯❯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 17:09, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

I agree that this page no longer serves anyone's purpose and I'd like a fresh start with my username/identity @TheLittleDuke aka David V Duccini