Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Pied butcherbird/archive1
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The article was promoted by Sarastro1 via FACBot (talk) 20:14, 25 September 2017 [1].
Pied butcherbird[edit]
This article is about Australia's finest songbird - pretty haunting and weird calls it makes. I have scoured sources and it reads well so have at it. Cheers, Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:44, 7 September 2017 (UTC)
Comments from Pbsouthwood[edit]
Images appropriate and all appear to be correctly licensed. Mostly without alt text. • • • Peter (Southwood) (talk): 17:46, 8 September 2017 (UTC)
Support Comments from Aa77zz[edit]
I'll add comments as I read the article.
Lead
- link mantle
- neck is white - it doesn't appear to be.
Taxonomy
- link type specimen
- "Gould described Cracticus picatus in 1848..." I found this slightly difficult to follow and initially wondered why you were taking about another species - perhaps need some sort of intro on subspecies/regional variants
- link Gregory Mathews
- link nominate subspecies
- link subspecies
- (3.7 cm wide) {{cvt|3.7|cm}}
- perhaps link mitochondrial
- even better, linked to mitochondrial DNA instead Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:38, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
Description
- "with short wings" followed by "The wings are fairly long"
- "The neck collar in the female is slightly narrower at around 25 cm (10 in)" 2.5 cm?
- Aa77zz (talk) 10:38, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
Distribution and habitat
- link Illawarra
Breeding
- Who builds the nest? HBW alive has "Nest built by female". (I can send you the HBW text - but I personally prefer HANZAB (Higgins) (I don't own a copy), as it includes cites to the primary literature)
- I have no idea where HBWQ got their info as no peer-reviewed literature seems to be out there supporting or refuting this. Same with incubation (though I do think that is more likely to be true.) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:03, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
- Nothing looks very likely in the HBW article Bibliography. I've come across similar cases before - the HBW author probably thought that he had read it somewhere but with 10,000 articles it perhaps isn't surprising. When the sexes are similar I assume a study using coloured bands is required. - Aa77zz (talk) 08:54, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
- I have no idea where HBWQ got their info as no peer-reviewed literature seems to be out there supporting or refuting this. Same with incubation (though I do think that is more likely to be true.) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:03, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
- Who incubates the eggs? HBW alive has "incubation by female alone"
- use cvt for egg dimensions (bizarrely we usually include inches)
- For how long are the young fed after leaving the nest. HBW alive has "at least a month"
- mention brood parasitism (it will please Jim): HBW alive has "Records of brood parasitism by Pallid Cuckoo (Cuculus pallidus) and Channel-billed Cuckoo (Scythrops novaehollandiae)."
References
- 43 Taylor, Hollis (26 July 2017) - why not provide a link (as using cite web)? http://theconversation.com/birdsong-has-inspired-humans-for-centuries-is-it-music-79000
- Aa77zz (talk) 13:11, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
Taxonomy
- "and combined them into a Cracticini clade,[13] which became the family Artamidae in 1994.[14]" I don't like the precise date without specifying who - Christidis and Boles may have made the change in 1994 but other authorities didn't. Taxonomy is always messy. Vol 14 of HBW published in 2009 followed Peters and placed butcherbirds in their own family Cracticidae and Clements still does (in their 2017 list). HBW changed the family to Artamidae in their Illustrated Checklist published in 2016 and didn't make the change online until this year. HBW online have a subfamily Cracticinae containing the genera Strepera, Melloria, Gymnorhina and Cracticus.
Description
- " weight of 120 g (4 oz)." -> weight of about 120 g (4 oz). (HBW has weight varying from 105 to 159g)
- Aa77zz (talk) 15:57, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
I'm happy with the responses and have supported above. Well done - excellent work. - Aa77zz (talk) 08:54, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
Support and comments from Jim[edit]
I'll support this now, since I'm going on holiday soon, just a few minor issues Jimfbleak - talk to me? 13:00, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
- captions and maps should not include the subject of the article
- its smaller size than the nominate subspecies, and subspecies mellori from Victoria and South Australia on the basis of its larger size than the nominate subspecies.— I'm sure this can be rephrased less clunkily and repetitively
- Both are regarded—missing "now"?
- baby grey teal.—"duckling" is better
Comments from FunkMonk[edit]
- I'll review this soon. At first glance, maybe the image selection could be improved? The article has no good photos of the bird in profile, but here are some:[2][3][4] There is also one of a juvenile[5], but perhaps the one you have of an immature is better. FunkMonk (talk) 18:04, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
- "Gould described Cracticus picatus in 1848 from northern Australia, describing it as" Perhaps say "named" the first time for variation?
- "This was reclassified as a subspecies of C. nigrogularis" When and by who?
- "The latter subspecies has a broader (3.7 cm (1.5 in) wide) white collar and a more whitish rump, with specimens becoming smaller in the more northern parts of the range." Usually it seems physical description between subspecies are mention in the description section?
- When and why was it moved to Cracticus?
- "Darwin woollybutt" That's a funny name...
- "and billabongs" Could be linked or explained, I don't think this term is well-known outside Australia.
- "call of an Australian pied butcherbird" Why stress it was Australian if this is an Australian endemic?
- On this note, I'm not sure why a section about bird-song has to do with depictions? Cultural significance maybe?
- "defend their territory from intruders and mobbing and chasing raptors and other birds" Seems there is a grammar problem here maybe? "And mob and chase raptors and other birds"?
- Why do you only give scientific names for plants in parenthesis, and not animals (apart form nest-parasites)? Would probably look better if it was consistent throughout.
- What does "picatus" mean?
- It's not in my Classical Latin dictionary at home - it means "daubed with pitch", hence "black patches" (in Late Latin I think). The two sources to support it are an 1844 book or a website from (notable) dictionaries....@FunkMonk: which source would you prefer I use...? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:18, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
- "and were sharing incubating duties." Double "ing" may seem a bit repetitive, how about "sharing incubation duties"? Or "shared incubating duties"?
- "form a black saddle." Only described as a "saddle" in the intro, struck me as odd...
- "The colour of juvenile and immature birds, which are accompanied by their parents, is predominantly brown and white." Not sure what the insert sentence means? Is this mixing behaviour with description? Kind of unclear.
Sources review[edit]
In general, sources are fine – of appropriate quality and consistently formatted. Despite my best endeavours I could find little to grumble at, apart from a couple of very minor niggles: ref 30, since it links to an online copy of the article, should have a retrieval date. And ref 45 should also have a retrieval date, since the source is a website. Nothing else. Brianboulton (talk) 18:01, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
Closing comment: I notice that the images currently have no alt text. While alt text is not an explicit requirement at FA, I always feel that we should demonstrate best practice. But it isn't worth holding up promotion over. Sarastro1 (talk) 20:14, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
- Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Sarastro1 (talk) 20:14, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.