Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/SMS Preussischer Adler/archive1

Add links
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Laser brain via FACBot (talk) 23 October 2020 [1].

SMS Preussischer Adler[edit]

Nominator(s): Parsecboy (talk) 20:31, 17 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This is an article on an early vessel of the Prussian Navy, though it was actually initially built as a commercial vessel. Preussischer Adler had a long career, taking part in the First and Second Schleswig Wars and seeing action in both; she was still around during the Franco-Prussian War but did not see combat, and she ended up being used as a torpedo target. I wrote this article last year, and it passed a Milhist A-class review shortly thereafter. Thanks to all who take the time to review the article! Parsecboy (talk) 20:31, 17 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from Hog Farm[edit]

I'll be looking at this soon. Might be claimed for 5 points in the WikiCup. Hog Farm Bacon 16:15, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • "The ship was purchased by the Prussian Navy and rearmed, once again as an aviso" - I'm assuming this is shortly after the packet route became obsolete in 1862. If not, indicate a date.
    • Yes, in 1862
  • "Prussia's ally Austria. the combined squadron attacked" - Start the sentence off with a capital letter
    • Good catch
  • You might want to qualify in the infobox that the two mortars were the original armament.
    • Clarified in the box caption
  • I'm not familiar enough with naval cannons to tell if these links are the same guns as those had by the ship, but look into 32-pounder gun and 24-pounder long gun to see if they're correct links.
    • No, those aren't right
  • Go ahead and indicate that Barandon was a civilian when the crew is still civilian; I'd assumed that he was Prussian Navy commanding civilians until I got to the part about his commissioning into the military later
    • Good idea
  • " the two 32-pound guns were added." - Use pounder, instead of pound.
    • Done
  • "though Preussischer Adler was hit once by a shell that killed one man" - This almost implies that the ship only took one hit
    • I don't know that it wasn't a single hit; Hildebrand et. al. just say "Ein daenischer Treffer hinter die Maschine hatte den Bootsmann Treptow so scher verwundet, dass er spaeter verstarb...der erste Gefallene der jungen preussischen Flotte". Naval gunnery in this period was pretty poor (even with early fire-control systems and early computational devices, the best the British did at Jutland in 1916 was in the range of 5-6% hits)
  • " At this time, she received her armament of 36-pound guns" - From my understanding of 19th-century cannon, it ought to be 36-pounder, as the name comes from the weight of the shell fired.
    • Fixed
  • "At the time, unrest in the Kingdom of Greece threatened German interests, including the reign of King Otto of Greece—a member of the German House of Wittelsbach, who was deposed in 1862." - At the time appears to refer to 1863, when the ship was commissioned for the long international cruise, but then the phrasing suggests that Otto's reign was threatened at the time, when it ended the year previous to what "at the time" is implied to mean. Is there a more straightforward way of phrasing this?
    • See how it reads now
  • "of the steam frigates Niels Juels and " - Is this the same as Niels Juel mentioned earlier?
  • "The war ended with the Treaty of Vienna" - Can we get a date for the Treaty of Vienna?
    • Added
  • " Kapitänleutnant Reinhold von Werner," - You generally give English equivalents for the German ranks, but not for this one. Specific reason why?
    • Nope, just an oversight
  • "The ship was recommissioned briefly in early 1870 for use as a harbor vessel in Kiel.[19] She was mobilized after the outbreak of the Franco-Prussian War in July" - Was there a decommission between the two dates?
    • Yes, but Hildebrand et. al. don't say exactly how long the "kurze Indiensthaltungsperiode" in early 1870 was.
  • By bow ornament is the intended link Figurehead (object)?
    • Yes, I'd say so - probably a useful redirect to create as well
  • It's in Category:Ships built in Leamouth, but Leamouth isn't mentioned anywhere in the article.
    • Leamouth and Blackwall are roughly (but not exactly) synonymous

I think that's it from me. Nice work. Hog Farm Bacon 18:38, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! Parsecboy (talk) 16:57, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Funk[edit]

  • I'll have a look down the line, being from Denmark, this will be interesting... FunkMonk (talk) 02:36, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • At first glance I wonder why the meaning of the name (Prussian eagle) isn't stated?
    • Good idea
  • Link place names in captions.
    • Done
  • "this was the first naval battle of the Prussian Navy after it had been re-established" Maybe I'm missing something, but when was it de established?
    • Under Frederick the Great, but I think it's beyond the scope of this article
  • You link commodore twice, but first to the German version, second to the English, which seems confusing.
    • Deleted the second one
  • "The war ended with the Treaty of Vienna" Perhaps state what it ended with, Danish loss.
    • Good idea
  • "The French Navy send a squadron" Sent?
    • Good catch
  • "She was sunk by two torpedoes in tests conducted on 26 June." Do we know from what ship they were shot?
    • Added
  • "the ship's bow ornament was removed and is preserved at the Mürwik Naval School" Would be interesting to have a photo of this...
    • It would be, yes, but I looked through the Commons category when I wrote the article and didn't find anything.
  • "SMS Preussischer Adler[a]" It's a bit distracting that the first name in the article has a footnote, perhaps it could be relegated to the article body or something?
    • Shifted to the body. Thanks FunkMonk! Parsecboy (talk) 19:42, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - looks nice to me. FunkMonk (talk) 20:16, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by PM[edit]

Up to your usual high standard, Nate. Having looked at this at Milhist ACR and found little to quibble about, I only have a few comments:

  • the lead says "the first naval battle of the Prussian fleet" but the body parses this as "the first naval battle of the Prussian Navy after it had been re-established". We haven't been told about a previous Prussian navy, so it jars a bit
    • The issue is, I don't want to get too far down a tangent that isn't really related to the topic
  • a similar comment could be made about "the first battle death of the Prussian fleet"
  • suggest "received repairs for the shell hitdamage"
    • Good idea
  • link mobilized
    • Done
  • "Preussischer Adler spent the war at Friedrichsort" as you've just been talking about the Baltic Sea Forces
    • Good idea

That's it. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:12, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks PM. Parsecboy (talk) 15:29, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Source review[edit]

All the sources are high quality reliable sources, exactly what you would expect for a Prussian ship of this vintage. The citations are properly formatted. There is an unused Notes subsection under Footnotes. There is a snippet of additional detail on the Battle of Heligoland in Sondhaus [2] that could be included. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:12, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support by Lee Vilenski[edit]

I may end up claiming points towards the wikicup. Hope you don't mind! :P|

I'll take a look at this article, and give some comments on how it meets the FA criteria in a little while. If you fancy doing some QPQ, I have a list of items that can be looked at here - specifically FACs for 2020 World Snooker Championship and 1984 World Snooker Championship Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 18:47, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • I'm sure you are right, but it feels weird refering in wikipedias voice to an object as a "she". Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 19:03, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Per WP:SHIPPRONOUNS calling a ship "she" is optional and 100% acceptable. Some people think it's weird or it's sexist but it's one of the few last rules in English to call some objects genders like countries, vehicles and others are outdated only Lexico of Oxford use them. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 12:06, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Twice in the lede we have two links next to each other - is there alternative wording to avoid this? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 19:03, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Not without degrading the quality of the writing, I don't think; and I'd assume that since both instances involve ship names (and are italicized), readers should be able to differentiate between the sets of links.
  • First two paras in characteristics could probably be merged. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 19:03, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Works for me.
  • References are listing as using a depreciated parameter Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 19:03, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Fixed

Great article, I really couldn't find much. Happy to support, a few comments above maybe worth looking at. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 19:03, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Lee! Parsecboy (talk) 15:36, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Image review by Sturmvogel_66[edit]

  • Support, I reviewed this at the MILHIST A-class review, and it has only improved since then. A fine piece of work. Harrias (he/him) • talk 09:12, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/SMS_Preussischer_Adler/archive1&oldid=985104704"