Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Sons of Soul/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by GrahamColm 13:56, 19 August 2012 [1].

Sons of Soul[edit]

Sons of Soul (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Dan56 (talk) 14:52, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured article because I believe it fulfills FA criteria and its topic is notable. Dan56 (talk) 14:52, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support I appreciate Dan's work on music album articles. This one is only one example of his wonderful work. It is sad to see so less reviewers, and I am curious why a street or a storm receive more reviews than a significant album. Overall, I think it meets the criteria. Regards.--Kürbis (✔) 16:30, 6 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Dan's work here on this article is definitely worth it here for a featured article nomination seeing at how well organized it is. Definitely one of the most important albums of its time. BrothaTimothy (talk · contribs) 21:35, 6 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Image review by Crisco 1492
File:Sons of Soul.jpg is fine.
File:Maraval Port of Spain.jpg is fine
File:Ali Shaheed Muhammad 2008.jpg is fine.
File:What Goes Around Comes Around.ogg is too long (10% of 273 seconds is 27 seconds). Should preferably have the track length on the file page.
File:(Lay Your Head on My) Pillow.ogg Should preferably have the track length on the file page.
File:Anniversary TTT.ogg Should preferably have the track length on the file page.

Addressed comments from Crisco 1492 moved to talk

  • Support - One of the best put together music articles I've seen and a fairly refreshing read. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:39, 7 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. As I was reading, it seemed like the word "various" was used frequently towards the beginning of the article. That's not a deal breaker, and I don't necessarily think changes are required, but I just thought I would note this as something that caught my attention. Later in the article, the "Singles" section begins: "The album produced five singles, including the hit singles [...]". While "singles" and "hit singles" are two distinct terms, I'm wondering if that sentence might read better as "The album produced five singles, including the hits [...]". Again, these are minor nitpicks. Overall, I'm very impressed with the article's comprehensiveness and quality of writing, and I'm happy to support. Great work!  Gongshow Talk 00:29, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Replaced some of the "various" with "several". I'm not sure about "hit", though, as the article hit single seems to distinguish between "hit single" and "hit" in its lead; not sure if it's a difference, but I think it's safer to use the complete term. Dan56 (talk) 18:54, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough on the hit/hit single point; I agree that using the complete term is probably safer. Thanks for considering my comments, and again, kudos on a great article.  Gongshow Talk 19:22, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delegate's comment: Spotchecks of sources for verification and close-paraphrasing are needed. Graham Colm (talk) 09:37, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Uhh, is that something I can do (if so, how?), or should another commenter address that? Dan56 (talk) 17:02, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
An independent reviewer needs to do this, I'll put a notice on the FAC Talk Page. Graham Colm (talk) 17:40, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Spotchecks by Fayedizard Spotchecks for Sons of Soul using revision [2] There are roughtly 224 cited sentances and we choose 15 randomly

Source is behind paywall, which isn't ideal - can it be sourced somewhere else?
  • 2 "Wiggins, his brother guitarist D'wayne Wiggins, and drummer Timothy Christian Riley each played several instruments for the album.[2][3]"
Source is behind paywall, which isn't ideal - can it be sourced somewhere else?
All sources "behind paywall" are the only available for the content cited; most of the sources available for these older albums are these kind of archives (I used Google's news/archive search to look through previews of the sources' text) Dan56 (talk) 18:57, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • 3 "In 2007, Vibe included the album in its list of the 150 Essential Albums of the Vibe Era (1992–2007).[4]"
Source matches
  • 4 ""Gangsta Groove" adapts hip hop's "gangsta" trope in a humane story,[5]"
Source says:"another hopped on the "Gangsta Groove" bandwagon while putting across a nonexploitative, recognizably human story" :)
In the context of the paragraph, the reviewer is discussing how the group reappropriated other styles; the sentence preceding it said "one cut parodied dance hall". "the "Gangsta Groove" bandwagon" is an allusion to the popularity of gangsta (rap) ("bandwagon") at the time. If still necessary, I'll revise it differently. Dan56 (talk)
Source not available to this reviewer - as the other sources so far have matched, I'd be happy to take this one on faith...
  • 6 "Other songs are characterized by funk grooves, including "I Couldn't Keep It to Myself", "Gangsta Groove", "Fun",[7]"
Source not available to this reviewer - as the other sources so far have matched, I'd be happy to take this one on faith...
  • 7 "Along with Mint Condition, Tony! Toni! Toné! were also one of the few mainstream R&B acts to play with live instruments.[8]"
Source says: "One reason is that many groups are blending live instruments with electronic sampling, a mainstay of hip-hop records.

"Groups like Mint Condition and Tony Toni Tone don't just sample their music, they actually play it," Jam says. "There's a return to musicianship.""

Revised to "Along with R&B acts such as Mint Condition and R. Kelly, Tony! Toni! Toné! played live instruments that complemented their hip hop sensibilities."
Source matches
Both sources behind paywall, which isn't ideal - can it be sourced somewhere else?
  • 10 "It ultimately peaked at number 70 and spent nine weeks on the chart.[12][13]"
This is a bit of a problem - the sources are copies of the chart, nine weeks appart, But I'm not sure that necessarily implies that the song was also in the chart in between...
The second cited source supporting the weeks it spent is verified by the "WO" section of the chart cited; it says the number of weeks it spent. Dan56 (talk) 18:57, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Whoops, apologies, that's my general unfamiliarly with the source kicking in...Fayedizard (talk) 20:11, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Source matches.
  • 12 "having been frustrated with their limited time onstage and Jackson's frequent show cancellations.[15]"
Source matches.
  • 13 "|description = The rhythmic, uptempo song incorporates classic soul and New jack swing styles.[16]"
Source matches (close enough for me)
  • 14 "A tour staffer recounted that they "left the tour with no advance notice" and "were extremely unprofessional."[17]"
Source is behind paywall, which isn't ideal - can it be sourced somewhere else?
Bit of a problem here - I can't see where any of the sources support the 'world' bit of the tour - am I missing something?
The tour mentioned in the sources is Jackson's tour for her janet. album, whose article on Wikipedia is titled Janet World Tour; the group only made the tour's early North American dates before dropping out, but that was the name of the tour. Dan56 (talk) 18:57, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That's the end of the spotchecks - there are things to look at and I'm not sure if the delegates will accept this as a thorough spotcheck given the number of articles that I don't have access to.  :( Fayedizard (talk) 18:13, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dont know what I can do about those "paywall" sources, but I addressed the other stuff. Dan56 (talk) 18:57, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Wonder if searching with Google News helps. For example, for point #9, the quoted "people who come around you..." is verified with this search. Point #2, the statement identifying the musicians ("brother guitarist", "bassist", etc.) can be looked up with a search like this: I used an available text from the link cited, placed it in quotes, added what I used the source to cite for like "brother", and got the result. Does any of this help? Dan56 (talk) 19:31, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That looks pretty good for #2 and #9 (actually for #2 this appears to be not paywalled (I think) - I should mention as well - the parts were I copied and pasted in the source (numbers 7 and 4, for example) are not be suggesting that they are issues to be resolved, I'm just presenting the text so that it's clear to all other reviewers (and the delegate) that it's fine - nothing to worry about there but I'll make sure that I make that clear on future reviews :) Fayedizard (talk) 20:11, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
If I may butt in, I don't see anything wrong at all with having references behind paywalls. Only allowing easily verifiable refs would mean we couldn't use most books as references in FAs, which goes completely against our sourcing guidelines. As long as the information can be verified, through a subscription to a research database in this case, it meets our requirements. That may make it harder to spot-check, but it doesn't make the sources any less reliable. While I'm here, the references shouldn't have titles with all caps. A fair number of them need fixing, and I'm surprised that four supporters and a spot-checker failed to catch that. Giants2008 (Talk) 01:13, 15 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed title caps. Dan56 (talk) 01:23, 15 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, just to clarify - I wasn't intending to suggesting that the paywalls were a stumbling block, I randomly selected 15 sentences to check and, where I could not check because of a paywall I mentioned the fact - the point was to give the closing editor as much information as possible so that they could judge the state of the article. By personal perference, I would, in general, like to see fewer sources behind paywall, and my comments reflect that, but I certainly don't think that I would be imposing it as part a review just yet :) Fayedizard (talk) 20:01, 16 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
  1. ^ Saunders, Michael. "The soul of hip-hop". The Boston Globe. Boston: The New York Times Company. Living section, p. 90. Retrieved 2012-05-09.
  2. ^ Cite error: The named reference Farley was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  3. ^ Sons of Soul (Media notes). Tony! Toni! Toné!. Polygram Records. 1993. 314 514 933-2. {{cite AV media notes}}: |format= requires |url= (help)CS1 maint: others in cite AV media (notes) (link)
  4. ^ "Revolutions". Vibe. 15 (3). VIBE Media Group: 214. March 2007. Retrieved 2012-04-22.
  5. ^ Cite error: The named reference Wright was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  6. ^ Cite error: The named reference Musician1 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  7. ^ Cite error: The named reference Upscale was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  8. ^ Cite error: The named reference Kot was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  9. ^ Cite error: The named reference WhoSampled was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  10. ^ Cite error: The named reference SacBee was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  11. ^ Bailey, Tamisha; Sommerlatte, William; Adams, Lischele (November 21, 1993). "KIDSDAY TALKING WITH Tony Toni Tone". Newsday. Melville: Times-Mirror Company. Part II section, p. 1. Retrieved 2012-05-04.
  12. ^ "Top Albums/CDs". RPM. 58 (3). Walt Grealis. July 31, 1993. Archived from the original on 2012-04-22. Retrieved 2012-04-22.
  13. ^ "Top Albums/CDs". RPM. 58 (10). Walt Grealis. September 18, 1993. Archived from the original on 2012-04-22. Retrieved 2012-04-22.
  14. ^ "Top Albums/CDs". RPM. 58 (2). Walt Grealis. July 24, 1993. Archived from the original on 2012-04-22. Retrieved 2012-04-22.
  15. ^ a b Cite error: The named reference Gonzales was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  16. ^ Morris, Chris; Morris, Edward; Verna, Paul, eds. (July 10, 1993). "Album Reviews". Billboard. 105 (28). BPI Communications: 46. Retrieved 2011-06-24.
  17. ^ Cite error: The named reference Daniels was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  18. ^ Heim, Chris (November 26, 1993). "Janet Jackson, Bell Biv Devoe Among Those Reinventing Soul". Chicago Tribune. Chicago: Tribune Company. Retrieved 2012-04-11.
  19. ^ Cite error: The named reference Maples was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
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