Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2007 March 13

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March 13

Copyright stuff

Hello. Is it permissible to use a copyrighted image if I have written permission from the author? How may I permissibly document this permission? Thanks. --Birdman1 talk/contribs 01:25, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Please see Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission. The bottom line is the Wikimedia Foundation has to have a record of this permission (and any kind of restricted use, like "only at Wikipedia" is not good enough). -- Rick Block (talk) 02:30, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Linking to a spot in an article

How do I link to a spot halfway down an article?

Please see Wikipedia:How to edit a page#Links and URLs (and this link is an example). -- Rick Block (talk) 02:34, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Suspected longtime vandalism on this article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go-Gurt

has some comments about Jesus and Jewish people etc, very obvious vandalism? However, I dont think we have this product at all in my country, and so I dont want to edit it myself in case anything

mentioned that is semi-quirky is really correct.

Please help by editing the article and it would be great if you could tell me if its been changed.

Im having a difficult time right now in life and dont want to get jumped on for editing an article like this.

Thank you for your time. I do appreciate it.

Dafing 02:27, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi, I reverted the vandalism. Go-Gurt is simply yogurt that is in a plastic tube that you squeeze to eat thus requiring no utensils to eat. I also checked the history [1] and the article was ok until yesterday when some user vandalized it. Turns out that the user is a vandal. Thanks for telling us about this as it would probably have gone unnoticed due to the obscurity of the article. --- Hdt83 | Talk/Chat 02:31, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Fruit Machine article!

Hi there,

I noticed that your article on the "fruit machine" (Canada, cold war) is not very long. I did a major history project on this a few years back, and i'm very interested in it! I even have photocopies of some of the declassified documents from the fruit machine's file (that I got from the library of parliament). Can I add to the article, and add pictures too?

Thanks! <rm'd email> —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.70.161.78 (talk) 02:35, 13 March 2007 (UTC).

While we don't accept original research, I assume your history project is a compilation of secondary sources, so as long as you say where everything came from (I'm sure you already took care of that in your report), go ahead! You can upload images on the side where it says upload file. Welcome! -Wooty Woot? contribs 03:23, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Doubt needs to clarify regarding Page EDIT

Hi, We are developing a small document site(WEB HELP document ) which in turn going to be used in intranet.In that, Editing(i.e like wikipedia,we need to keep the link under each and every document) is the main functionality. So we want to know,how they are editing pages.it means which Programming language can use and how to etit the page and save the changes to the original source code. Can you provide the components for edit funcinality....?so that it would be more helpful for us. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.54.176.11 (talk) 06:07, 13 March 2007 (UTC).

I think you're after the same software that is used for Wikipedia's use - it is called MediaWiki. You can find that and more helpful information at www.mediawiki.org or you can visit here to download the software. Extranet ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 06:12, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Not too surprisingly, Wikipedia has a nice MediaWiki article. MediaWiki is excellent software, and well-documented at mw:Help (one nice feature is that the manuals are on a wiki too, so all the users can improve them). I've used my share of open source software, but even so, it's difficult to believe anything this good could be free. I'm using it to run two corporate wikis, and hopefully soon a public wiki. If you want to run your own wiki, read the following articles first: wiki, b:Wiki Science/How to start a wiki, and corporate wiki. And of course learn from the wiki experts by editing on Wikipedia; the user community here has really figured out, in detail, how to use wiki technology to solve all sorts of complex problems. Your own wiki will have a much better chance of succeeding if you have at least one user on it who also has 500 or more edits on Wikipedia (someone who knows all the basic commands, and can copy useful templates and so on from Wikipedia). A wiki filled only with wiki beginners might have a difficult time getting started. --Teratornis 00:48, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

While I'm gabbing, I should point out that there are many wiki software packages. See how they compare. If you're familiar with editing on Wikipedia, then MediaWiki is the easiest wiki software to use, since that's what you are using here. However, other wiki software packages are worth a look; for example, TWiki has structured wiki and wiki application features interesting to many organizations that would run a wiki on their intranet. If your goal is to develop documentation to publish in some non-wiki format, you might consider a wiki software package which purports to be designed for that such as DokuWiki or MoinMoin. --Teratornis 01:18, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Missing template?: Move to gaming wiki

I seem to recall a template to insert in articles on video games that were written in the style of an instructional manual or strategy guide, suggesting such an article be moved to a gaming wiki, and giving several links to such wikis, but I can't find this template. Does it still exist? B7T 06:42, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

There has been a mass rename of everything in the Computer and Video Games section of Wikipedia. Basically the "Computer and" bit has been dropped and templates have changed their names accordingly. "CVGtemplatename" would now be "VGtemplatename" - X201 11:00, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Additional - Is this it? Template:Gameguide. Failing that have a look at the contents of here Category:Video game templates - X201 11:09, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually it was Template:Move to gaming wiki, which is linked to from Template:Gameguide in the actual template. (That template name is exactly as I phrased it; I wonder how I overlooked it...) B7T 12:14, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Linking "Men in White"

I wrote an article about the pre-code 1934 film, "Men in White" but when I click on the title (link) I created under the category of "Pre-code," it does not directly link to my article. How do I change/correct this? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tyhawkins (talk • contribs) 06:49, 13 March 2007 (UTC).

• You probably mean the Pre-Code article - not a category. I've fixed the link. The name of the link needs to be exactly the same as the article title. According to naming conventions the article should be called Men in White (1934 film) so you can distinguish it from later films. Having the word pre-code in the brackets meant the link you placed linked to a non-existent page. What you put in between brackets only needs to be long enough to serve as an effective identifier. Note: You shouldn't copy directly from IMDB, say it in your own words instead and remember to start the article with a definition like I did. You don't need to say what film it is not as the article title already took care of that. It's probably to link that other film in a "see also" section though. - Mgm|^(talk) 08:35, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Needed Images?

Does Wikipedia have an image/illustration request system? I've stumbled across a few articles with crudely drawn flowcharts or simply no photo for a notable landmark. Is there a request template? Is it already in use so I can help fix this problem? --Martinship 07:05, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

See Category:Image request templates --WikiSlasher 07:32, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! --Martinship 07:46, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

And Wikipedia:Requested pictures - Adrian M. H. 18:51, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Also much appreciated! --Martinship 07:01, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Which Templates/Tags should I use?

Hi, I'm new to the editing thing so please bear with me :) I was looking up the Mapp v. United States Supreme Court Case and realized that the article is extremely bad. After clicking on the "this supreme court case article has not been assesed" link, I saw that "Start Class" was protected. I don't know if I can, or how, to use this tag/template, and would appreciate some help. This article is actually quite bad, and may need some other tags/templates as well. It's also just an example, there are a few other articles I've seen that could use the various templates and tags I've seen. Is there a comprehensive list somewhere of these that I can use (and how to use) and would someone look at this particular article and tell me which ones they thing should be used, and how? I really want to help make wikipedia a better than it already is. Thank you in advance for help! -HappyRecusant 07:21, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Mapp v. United States is not an article! You must mean Mapp v. Ohio. I noticed you've added a message to the talk page of that article. Here's how to class this article: change {{WP_SCOTUS}} to {{WP_SCOTUS|class=Start}} at the top of the talk page. --Martinship 07:42, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Starting a new page

i want to crate a page on wikipedia on kilpauk medical college,chennai,india.have already registerd for the same purpose.bu am not getting options to create one.how and where can i do it?

Help:Starting a new page will probably, er, help. --Cherry blossom tree 10:04, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Possiblity of multiple spellings

I've read what the Style Manual had to say about spelling but I don't quite understand what to do if multiple spellings are commonly used for the same word. For example, Meat grinder is also known as mincer or mincing machine in British English. The inventor of such machine seems to be German. Would it be correct to mention the other form in the article somehow? 80.221.5.74 10:16, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

• Yes, you could start the lead of the article with: "A meat grinder (also called meat mincer) is....". - Mgm|^(talk) 10:25, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject template problem

I've added two templates to the talk page of Paul Kirk recently, and it appears the importance/priority parameter doesn't get shown in the biography and law enforcement templates as it should. Talk:Jocelin for example, shows a a medieval Scotland template where it is shown. Did I do something wrong or are the templates broken somehow? - Mgm|^(talk) 11:05, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Seems like you figured it out. Xiner (talk, email) 13:33, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

• I don't think I have. Is it simply that some display it and others don't? - Mgm|^(talk) 11:20, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

translations

I simply need my 7th grade students to be able to find words written in a variety of other languages. Such as: "What is the word pencil in Japanese? or German? or an African language?" Is there an easy (not time consuming) way for students to do this? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.237.248.5 (talk) 11:50, 13 March 2007 (UTC).

• A dictionary. There's several online translators and there's also Wiktionary. - Mgm|^(talk) 12:40, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Given that English is one of the official languages of countries such as Kenya, South Africa, and other places visited by the much-adored British Empire, it qualifies as an African language. Therefore, the third question above is pretty easy in its current wording. "What is the word pencil in ... an African language?" "Pencil." --Teratornis 00:30, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

interwiki links

Hi, on Talk:Eric_Harris_and_Dylan_Klebold#SOMEBODY_JUST_DO_IT.21.21.21 I asked a question on interwiki links, but this question is more general than only this article. So, I post the question here too:

On en:wikipedia there is an article on Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold. There has been suggested to split this into two separate articled, but so far this has not been decided on. On nl:wikipedia there are, however, two articles: nl:Eric Harris and nl:Dylan Klebold. The pl:wikipedia has the same. My question is now: how to interwiki these articles in a correct manner? Thanks for any advice. Mork nl 13:08, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

An ugly solution: create a "Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold" holder page on nl: and pl:. Personally, I think they should be merged. Xiner (talk, email) 13:36, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Another ugly possibility: Just add both interwiki links in seperately, and they'll appear seperately on the right of the screen. Unfortunately there'll be no way to distinguish which goes where without a mouseover, and even more unfortunately one of the bots will probably get really confused by it and create interwiki links from nl:Eric Harris to nl:Dylan Klebold or something weird like that... but they're probably already doing that from the fact that some languages have 2 pages and some have one. Best solution is probably to merge the pages on all languages. --Maelwys 13:41, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

For the sake of completeness: another solution is to unmerge the article on en: ;-) But seriously: I will propose the merging to the nl:community. Thanks so far! Mork nl 14:23, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Windows Live Mail Beta

Please remove windows live mail beta, Thankyou I would like to go back to Hotmail msn.Thanks Again.[email removed for your protection]

• Sorry, I think you are asking in the wrong place. We are an encyclopedia, and don't look after your e-mail. Notinasnaid 13:12, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

can I eat while using wikipedia?

Absolutely not. ST47Talk 21:21, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Darn. There goes all my editing time. Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 04:11, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

How do you edit a list?

How do I edit the box generated by the code: {{Atlanta neighborhoods}}? Brookwood should be changed to Brookwood Hills. Akubhai 15:06, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Figured it out. Akubhai 15:12, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

How to create a new topic

Hi, I am not able to find the Create Topic button when I login. Where do I find it and how to create an topic.

Regards —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SeshGiri (talk • contribs) 15:17, 13 March 2007 (UTC).

If you mean, you want to create a new artcle, see Wikipedia:Your first article and Help:Starting a new page for instructions. Mr.Z-mantalk¢Review! 15:19, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Biographies of Living Persons Notice Board

I am trying to add an incident to this Board. The instruction say " Add new entries at the bottom of the page "

I just can't see how to do that. Do I edit the last entry and just add to it?

Thanks - Stephen Pate —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sdpate (talk • contribs) 16:01, 13 March 2007 (UTC).

Yes, or you can click "edit this page" on the top. Xiner (talk, email) 16:05, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Or you can click the link I just added. -- Rick Block (talk) 18:44, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Abseil fkor Charity

Hi

My name is Jodie and I would like to Abseil down the Grimsby Dock Tower for Charity. Would you please give me some advice on who to contact to enable me to start setting this up ASAP.

Many Thanks Jodie —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.6.94.129 (talk) 16:26, 13 March 2007 (UTC).

• This page is for questions about Wikipedia. Please direct your question to the reference desk instead. - Mgm|^(talk) 17:32, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

How do we deal with Polish names?

I'm editing the article on Szymon Buchbinder, who's referred to as "Szymon" in some places, and "Simeon" in others. I think one is a Polish name, the other the English equivalent, but I don't know for sure. What should the article title be? What's the naming convention for Polish names? There's nothing in naming conventions on this. I saw the name cited in a German art encyclopedia as "Szymon (Simeon) Buchbinder", if that helps. (Also, Maurycy Gottlieb--I think the English-equivalent name is "Moritz", but I could be wrong about that.) grendel|khan 16:34, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

The best way is to use the actual name with a prononciation (IPA) in the Lead section, immediately following the first use of the name. Mr.Z-mantalk¢Review! 16:38, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Naming Conventions for more detail. Mr.Z-mantalk¢Review! 16:40, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Opinion

Dear Wic: As someone who spent a year of his life volunterring for one of the finest, most geoploiticallly astute presidents in the twentieth century(Bill Clinton) why do I find as a new user your web site so complicated to express my OPINION on the actions president Clinton undertook throughout his presidency where the Balkans, Genocide, crimes against humanity, the establishment and necessity of the international criminal court in the Hague, the current administrations refusal to not only adequately fund the UN but its total obstruction to international rule of law and the Administrations responsibility to utilize all available intelligence resources to bring to justice both psychiatrist Dr. Kardizack the Bosnian prime minister(Who never traveled anywhere without his blowdryer) and General Mladic whose approval of rules of engagement that were so genocidal, evil, and unbelivable one had to occassionally remind themselves is this really happening in Europe in 1992?

Sincerely, John P Quinn <contact info redacted>

Wikiepedia is not a place for opinions, it is a place for facts. See WP:NOR and WP:NPOV for more details on original research, opinions, and Points of View. Mr.Z-mantalk¢Review! 16:43, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

If your sole motive for contributing to this encyclopædia is to put forth your opinions, then your contributions will be at risk of being reverted by other editors who cannot abide POV. Myself included. If, however, you wish to contribute facts (with sources, of course) that are not already present, then you are more than welcome. Adrian M. H. 19:02, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Capitalize a title

How do I capitalize a title? For example, I created the article as "John doe" instead of "John Doe."

Thanks

Dagger11 17:34, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Users with accounts older than 4 days can rename pages using the 'move' tab at the top of the page. If your account is less than 4 days old, you can ask someone else to correct it for you (here at the Help Desk, at requested moves, or the assistance village pump). --ais523 17:42, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

With regards to David all/David All, you might want to read WP:BIO & WP:V--VectorPotential^Talk 17:45, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you.

• Of course, the easiest way is the give the article with the proper capitalization when you create it. ;) - Mgm|^(talk) 21:49, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

namecalling

people are calling me names for no reason! i dont like being called names! they called me a saikano,a sockpuppet,and orther names! tell them to stop! thay called me a he! my mom is an editer but shes at work! i dont like this site!--Akemi2.0 17:48, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

You can report anyone who makes personal attacks against you to the administrators notice board. The administrators there will take appropriate actions --snowolfD4^{( talk / @ )} 18:22, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I can see no evidence of name-calling or incivility on your user talk page. The comments left by Shii are, for the most part, perfectly acceptable in my opinion. If you wish to contend the accusation of being a sockpuppet, take it up with Shii or make a request for comment. Shii's point about your edits appear, at first glance, to be entirely valid. Adrian M. H. 19:09, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Disagree; specifically, "If you leave forever it will make all our lives a little easier" is well outside the bounds of civility by any reasonable standard. --Tkynerd 19:24, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

User:Saikano has been blocked indefinitely for being disruptive, and it is plainly obvious this user is his sockpuppet. At this point, I'm amazed Shii didn't say something worse. -Wooty Woot? contribs 20:05, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Neither sockpuppetry nor any other behavior is an excuse for incivility. --Tkynerd 00:20, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Wiki-videos?

Hello all,

Is there a way to insert videos in wiki in a fashion similar to inserting images in articles?

Thanks, Wiki-newbie

No, there is no way to inder videos into Wikipedia, there are animated images which have been designed to more but actual moview cannot be inserted. Also please remember to sign your name by inserting four tildes (~~~~). Telly addict 18:47, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Media for details.Mr.Z-mantalk¢Review! 18:48, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I need help!

I'm glad I found the help desk, because I need help. There's this girl, Emily, that I really like. I asked her to go with me to the school dance. She said yes, but then backed out after John, the most popular kid in class, asked her to go with him. What can I do to make her like me instead of John? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Billyboy57 (talk • contribs) 20:28, 13 March 2007 (UTC).

Firstly, the Wikipedia Help Desk is solely for questions regarding the use of Wikipedia. Secondly, this would be better directed to an appropriate forum or your own peer group. Adrian M. H. 20:33, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I know this question isn't related to Wikipedia, but I don't know what to do. My peers are just as clueless about girls as I am, and the people who edit Wikipedia are some of the smartest people around. Please help, you have no idea how I feel for this girl. Every moment that I'm not gazing into her limpid emerald green eyes, I'm attempting to repair the shattered fragments of my broken heart. Billyboy57 21:12, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not someplace to get romantic advice. And do you really think that the Internet is the best place to do so? Veinor ^{(talk to me)} 21:20, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Okay then; just this once, I'll indulge your question. Frankly, do you really want to get involved with anyone who accepts the offer of a date, then turns you down because someone "better" made a rival offer??? Best avoided, I think. Plenty more fish.... and all that. Adrian M. H. 23:01, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

There is a book called "Sex Tips for Boys" by Kim Scapa (ISBN-13: 978-0099451600) that can be picked up cheaply from Amazon.co.uk that deals with teenage situations like this and how to handle them. It's humorous, non sleazy and accurate. It's out of print at the moment and a cult classic (that's why you're better off buying it from amazon.co.uk rather than amazon.com, where it can sell for a lot more money). Coricus 23:09, 13 March 2007 (UTC) As an after thought, if you're using words like "limpid " in every day conversation, it might be part of the problem! ;-)

Some men have been able to vastly increase their attractiveness to women by becoming rock stars. There's no guarantee that Billyboy57 could become a rock star, nor that doing so would dislodge "Emily" from "John," but we rarely hear about rock stars becoming endlessly fixated on particular unattainable women, perhaps because they have so many eager women to choose from. --Teratornis 15:25, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Create a new page

I wanted to create an article. But I don't know how to do it. I already know how to edit pages, using all the brackets and parenthesis. But when i went to the tutorial on how to create a page, it said to click the create page button/link, but I can't find where that is on any page. So could you tell me where to find that button/link? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Joecoolyo (talk • contribs) 21:24, 13 March 2007 (UTC).

Type the name of the article in the search box. Be sure to get the spelling and capitalization correct. Hit Go. When the next page comes up saying that there isn't such an article, click on "create this page" or whatever the red text says to that effect. Dismas|^(talk) 21:41, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

editing problem

Hi, I repeatedly tried to save changes to a page, but every time I made the change, it nor appeared on the page history or on my list of contributions. Only the last user/ip address showed up at the top. It wouldn't be an edit conflict, because no other user/ips appeared on edit history.--Wikipedier (talk • contribs) 21:25, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

To which article are you trying to make changes? Dismas|^(talk) 21:38, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

That's a very good question. I don't know. It all started when I was looking at the recent changes patrol, and reverting blanked revisions and other obvious vandalism. What I do know is that the time of the change of was between 20:00, (UTC) and 21:00, (UTC), it was of a person, and it the that it was replaced with clearly racist vandalism. I tried to track it down on the recent changes, but it doesn't have the next 50, next 500, etc to click on, so I can't trace back that far in time.--Wikipedier (talk • contribs) 21:46, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Concern about Michael Bloomberg article

Hi - I'm concerned about the Michael Bloomberg article. Most articles on political figures offer information on the person's good points and bad points dispassionately. Hillary Clinton is a good example of this. It has phrases like: "Clinton became the first First Lady to be subpoenaed to testify before a Federal grand jury, when she was called in January 1996 to explain the sudden reemergence of documents regarding her work at the Rose Law firm.[26][27] This was in connection with her role in the Whitewater affair, for which she never faced criminal charges"... where "Role in the Whitewater affair" is a link allowing people to see what she was accused of and, rightly or wrongly, that she never faced criminal charges. And so on (the page is full of such well tempered examination). To pick a Republican as another example, the George W Bush page also has a criticisms section.

The Michael Bloomberg article does not seem to be so well tempered. Serveral visitors to the discussion page have commented that it displays POV. It doesn't do this by what's present but rather what's missing. Negative facts are systematically edited out of the page. Comments that appear reasonably sourced such as this and this seem to be either removed or labelled POV and later removed - often by editors who are "red links" rather than editors with a visible history, which makes me a little concerned the page is being airbrushed of criticism.

I would like to make the article more in keeping with those of other politicians but I don't want to get involved in an edit war or be labelled partisan (I'm not an American, nor involved with American politics). Is there anybody else, who's reasonably dispassionate, who's interested in helping me make this article more, if not neutral, inclusive of all available information? Coricus 22:32, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Regardless of what you end up doing on Wikipedia, you might also check out WikInfo, where they avoid some edit wars by encouraging multiple articles about a single topic to reflect varying points of view. --Teratornis 15:28, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

how to purchase half price books on line

Trying to purchase textbooks. Can't seem to get started. msannettaMsannetta 22:58, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

• You could try the reference desk, specifically the miscellaneous desk--VectorPotential^Talk 22:59, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

How is this related to Wikipedia? AQu01rius (User &#149; Talk) 04:36, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Posting Feature

I tried posting some details about my company/product and automatically received a notice that it was tagged for speedy deletion due to blatant advertising.

I'm trying to understand why/how Oracle Corporation's feature doesn't fall under the same category. My content was similar and it's still posted.

Can you please shed some light on the tricks they are using that enable their listing to remain public?

Thanks

Cindy Danielson <redacted e-mail address> —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cdanielson (talk • contribs)

What was the name of the page? I can take a look at it for you. Veinor ^{(talk to me)} 23:17, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Although anyone can edit Wikipedia, this is in a way a little misleading. Behind this there are a lot of rules and guidelines which take a long time to learn, and things which don't follow the rules are likely to be ruthlessly removed.

There are two particular issues with what you mention, writing an article about your company or product: notability and conflict of interest.

Notability

Wikipedia is not a business directory, free advertising space, or personal web space. It is an encyclopedia. The general feeling is that some companies belong in the encyclopedia, but most do not. For example, Microsoft and Air France do belong, and a dry cleaning shop in Springfield does not. The difficult part is drawing the line between.

The idea that is used to decide is "notability". Microsoft is notable because people have written books and newspaper articles about it, and for other reasons. Other reasons might be things like being the first ever company of its kind (when there are now many successful companies like it). The dry cleaning shop isn't ever likely to have people (other than the shop owner) write books about it, or get a series of national newspaper articles, and so forth.

The guidelines that apply to companies can be found in Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies).

Now, it's not enough for a company to just be notable, and hence deserve an article. The article must say why it is notable, and must prove it (by references to things like books, newspaper articles or whatever, that other people can check).

Conflict of interest

People want to be able to trust Wikipedia, and this means that they want to know that the information is there because objective people decided it was important, reported accurately, and not there for advertising purposes. It's very hard for people to trust, for example, a biography of a "famous person" that's written by that famous person. To deal with this, it is very strongly recommended that people do not write about things they are to close to: themselves, their personal friends, the companies they own or work for, and so forth.

The relevant guideline here is Wikipedia:Conflict of interest. It is possible for interested people to use the talk page of an article to point out errors or suggest improvements, but they should not create or edit the article. The idea is that if the subject is truly notable, someone else will be along to create the article in time.

It seems very difficult for many people to accept that this guideline really applies to them, to their company, but it really does, and it applies to everyone.

I hope this helps understand the mystery that is Wikipedia a little more. Notinasnaid 00:53, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Cindy, to get an idea of how complex Wikipedia's rules are, scan through User:John Broughton/Editor's Index to Wikipedia. That's an index to the rules, policies, guidelines, and procedural know-how that an editor on Wikipedia needs to consult over the course of making thousands of edits. John's index, despite its present daunting bulk, is not even complete yet!

You correctly pointed out that large companies such as Oracle Corporation have extensive coverage on Wikipedia; this is also true for Microsoft, Google, and many others. In contrast, smaller companies are less-well represented here. This is probably due to several factors (the first two of the following were stated above):

• Large companies are familiar to more people, increasing the odds that someone who knows about the company also happens to be actively editing on Wikipedia.
• Large companies attract lots of press coverage, making them easily able to satisfy Wikipedia's requirements for notability.
• Large companies have more resources to spend on advertising and publicity. Obviously, any large company with a clue knows that Wikipedia's exploding popularity (and high placing in search engine results) makes this the place to be; therefore, just as obviously, large companies will do what is necessary to insure their presence here, if they aren't already enjoying massive free advertising courtesy of the efforts of disinterested writers.
• Wikipedia is a bureaucracy. In the real world, large companies are virtually always better at dealing with bureaucracy than small companies are. (For example: military procurement). Therefore, Wikipedia has a built-in bias (perhaps unintentional), in favor of the Microsofts of the world, and against the small entrepreneurial start-ups that have yet to make a dent. (This is, of course, ironic in view of Wikipedia's origin; but then again, even Microsoft was once a small entrepreneurial start-up, and might have had its first article deleted here as well, had Wikipedia existed at the time.) Because Wikipedia is so popular (attracting millions of visits per day), and often comes up first in search engine results, this undoubtedly has the effect of promoting the products of large, established companies who obtain a large presence here (despite all the lofty official disavowals of Wikipedia being a promotional device).

When a large company needs to deal with a bureaucracy, what do they do? They hire someone familiar with that bureaucracy to represent them, someone who understands the bureaucracy's rules and customs, especially the vitally important yet maddeningly subtle differences between the stated policies vs. what you actually have to do to get things done. This type of expertise is always for sale, no matter how much people claim to deplore the trade in it. It's just a matter of learning where to shop.

Now, if you want to get an article written about your company, you have two main options:

• You can spend a year editing other articles on Wikipedia, get your edit count over the thousand mark, read dozens of pages about rules and policies and the underlying technology, and spend some time answering other people's questions (as I am doing right now). By the time you have done that, you will know how to write articles on Wikipedia about all but the most obscure companies, and make them "stick."
• Or if you have other things to do, you can try to hire someone who has that level of editing experience, to write about your company for you.

Obviously, hiring someone to navigate the minefield of Wikipedia policy for you would seem to violate WP:COI, and I agree that it does; but on the other hand, Wikipedia conveniently leaves open an enormous loophole with WP:IAR. Only the most naive person could imagine the likes of deep-pockets companies such as Microsoft et al. aren't already doing this. (Disclaimer: I have no knowledge of whether Microsoft or any other large company has actually sent its employees or paid consultants to dress up its articles on Wikipedia; I'm merely saying that if a person who runs a large-company advertising department is even remotely competent, that's what he or she is doing.) --Teratornis 16:26, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Even though I'm already familiar with the above policies, I actually enjoyed reading those extensive and very well-formed replies to the above question. Nice work! Adrian M. H. 18:43, 14 March 2007 (UTC)